How many assists did Djorkaeff get in 98, i remember watching the France games and his timing of passes stood out.
Which footballer peaked the highest?
- Thread starter Eddy_JukeZ
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peter schmeichel euro 1992?
Milan Baros. Euro 2004. Not an incredible peak. But certainly the highest of his career.
Maradona in '86 stands in a league of his own. Nothing else comes close
Kempes in '78, Bruno Conti in '82, Zidane and Pirlo on 2006, Xavi and Iniesta in 2010, Robben in 2014, Baggio and Romario in '94, Cruyff in '74, Garrincha in '62, Ronaldo '98 and '02, Rivaldo '02 and Pelé in '70 the other standout WC performers
Platini in '84, Zidane in '00, Gullit in '88 and Xavi in '08 for Euros
Di Stefano between '55/56 and 59/60, Kaka 06/07, Messi 10/11 and 14/15 and Cristiano 13/14 and 16/17 for CL
Kempes in '78, Bruno Conti in '82, Zidane and Pirlo on 2006, Xavi and Iniesta in 2010, Robben in 2014, Baggio and Romario in '94, Cruyff in '74, Garrincha in '62, Ronaldo '98 and '02, Rivaldo '02 and Pelé in '70 the other standout WC performers
Platini in '84, Zidane in '00, Gullit in '88 and Xavi in '08 for Euros
Di Stefano between '55/56 and 59/60, Kaka 06/07, Messi 10/11 and 14/15 and Cristiano 13/14 and 16/17 for CL
Greatest all inclusive.
1. Platini Euro '84 - The best individual performance from a single player in a major. Flawless.
2. Maradona World Cup '86 - Generally seen as #1 because World Cup > Euro Cup.
3. Garrincha World Cup '62 - Unprecedented level of dominance from a player assumed to be a pure wing-forward. He turned into a super hero who could march centrally as and when needed for that tournament.
4. Cruyff World Cup '74 - Bringing Totaal Voetbal to the world in all its glory. I think if he and the guy below had've won their respective tournaments, it would be impossible to separate the World Cup performers for 'best ever'
5. Baggio World Cup '94 - A missed penalty changed the narrative for Baggio to the most ridiculous degree I think there has been. It was scandalous that the man who carried his team to the final was ultimately blamed for them not winning it.
x. Ronaldo Copa America '97 - So good it deserves a mention although the Copa America pales in significance to the aforementioned tournaments.
Champions League is hard to group with dedicated tournaments that require the ultimate level of mental preparation, nerve and resolve.
1. Platini Euro '84 - The best individual performance from a single player in a major. Flawless.
2. Maradona World Cup '86 - Generally seen as #1 because World Cup > Euro Cup.
3. Garrincha World Cup '62 - Unprecedented level of dominance from a player assumed to be a pure wing-forward. He turned into a super hero who could march centrally as and when needed for that tournament.
4. Cruyff World Cup '74 - Bringing Totaal Voetbal to the world in all its glory. I think if he and the guy below had've won their respective tournaments, it would be impossible to separate the World Cup performers for 'best ever'
5. Baggio World Cup '94 - A missed penalty changed the narrative for Baggio to the most ridiculous degree I think there has been. It was scandalous that the man who carried his team to the final was ultimately blamed for them not winning it.
x. Ronaldo Copa America '97 - So good it deserves a mention although the Copa America pales in significance to the aforementioned tournaments.
Champions League is hard to group with dedicated tournaments that require the ultimate level of mental preparation, nerve and resolve.
Shame about the controversy and uncertainty on whether he earned all his goals or was allowed, shall we say, a percentage of them.
Andy Cole
5 goals against Ipswich in '95.
5 goals against Ipswich in '95.
Maradona USA
Defo 'peaked' the 'highest' there...
Defo 'peaked' the 'highest' there...
Poborsky Euro 96
Top 3:
1. Maradona in 86
2. Garrincha in 62
3. Messi in 12
1. Maradona in 86
2. Garrincha in 62
3. Messi in 12
C.Ronaldo 16/17 CL.
10 goals between the QF and the final against Bayern, Atletico & Juve.
10 goals between the QF and the final against Bayern, Atletico & Juve.
Goalkeepers - Neuer at 2014 World Cup, Buffon at 2006 World Cup, Courtois in 2013-14 Champions League, Shilton in 1979-80 European Cup
Defenders - Cannavaro in 2006 World Cup, Baresi in 1994 World Cup, Nesta in 2003 Champions League, Beckenbauer in 1972 Euros
Midfielders - Xavi in 2011 Champions League, Matthaus in 1990 World Cup, Platini in 1984 Euros, Maradona in 1986 World Cup
Forwards - Messi in 2011 Champions League, Cristiano Ronaldo in 2017 Champions League, Pele in 1970 World Cup, Fontaine in 1958 World Cup
Defenders - Cannavaro in 2006 World Cup, Baresi in 1994 World Cup, Nesta in 2003 Champions League, Beckenbauer in 1972 Euros
Midfielders - Xavi in 2011 Champions League, Matthaus in 1990 World Cup, Platini in 1984 Euros, Maradona in 1986 World Cup
Forwards - Messi in 2011 Champions League, Cristiano Ronaldo in 2017 Champions League, Pele in 1970 World Cup, Fontaine in 1958 World Cup
Ok here's a thought out detailed response. Please don’t TL;DR.
The legend of Zidane is that he was the mythical Maghreb who frequently dragged his team through tournaments and seasons sparkling goldust on the pitch every time he entered it. But the aura comes from a handful of CL games and the Leverkusen goal, the goals in Paris, the near perfect game against Brazil in 06 and Euro 2000. He was in fact very patchy and ornery for large portions of his career.
1. He was never ever ever the best player in the world over a full season the way Ronaldinho or Kaka or Figo were. Just simply never. Zidane could be incredible but he was never incredibly consistent by even the standards of say Figo or Kaka let alone Messi or Ronaldo. Did he have the talent? Of course! Did he step up in big games? Yes. Was he glorious to watch? You can't imagine!
To give an example of Zidane tasked with leading in a season – look no further than In 98-99. Del Piero had his big knee injury and spent months out. That ended phase one of his career. He was never the same again.
Zidane became main man and Juve finished 7th. 16 points off Milan. Juve were reigning champs and finished 20 points behind their 97-98 total. Zidane was consistently underwhelming that year. He scored 2 goals in 40 and (I think he got either 2 or no assists). Actually one of his better games was the Roy Keane game in Turin which of course they lost.
Assuming we think numbers are somewhat significant for attackers let alone such talents like Zizou those numbers are shocking. Those are Lingard numbers. He played that year with a young pre-Arsenal Thierry Henry and Pippo Inzaghi. Now Inzaghi still scored goals that year but no one could make up for Del Piero's and part of that was on Zidane's form. Juve actually scored some 25 goals less than the previous year even if their defence only conceded as many as AC Milan's (who won serie A that season).
2. A great peak means the someone who is always the best game in game out for a few seasons. Zidane had some great seasons but they were spread out over a decade not bunched up.
The other thing is Zidane dragging teams through tournaments:
1998: The fact is that Zidane did nothing in 1998 till the final. He was sent off in their second game against the mighty Saudi Arabia. Then he missed the final group game. Missed the 1-0 win over Paraguay. Did nought in a goalless draw v Italy that went to pens where he scored his and Albertini missed.
In the semi vs Croatia it was Thuram (of all people) who scored and Djorkaeff who set up one of the goals up for Thuram.
In the final of course we know what he did.
To compare: Pogba had a far superior world cup in 2018 where he legitimately probably was France's best midfielder and creative outlet while playing severely within himself in a deeper lying position and still contributing defensively.
Euro 2000: He was fantastic in Euro 2000. He had a good season building up to it also.
World Cup 2002: Missed the first two games through injury. Had a fairly good game v Denmark but France lost 2-0.
Euro 2004: Was decent. Scored two vs. England which always helps improve a player’s perception in the anglocentric media. Had a pretty underwhelming season coming into
it.
World Cup 2006: Was very good. The game vs Brazil was near perfection. A pretty rank season coming into it.
Zidane left Juve and he was seamlessly replaced by Pavel Nedved (who is genuinely underrated). Zidane at Madrid in the insane teams he played in finished:
1. A distant third behind Valencia and Deportivo la Coruna
2. Champion
3. A distant fourth
4. Second to Ronaldinho's Barca
5. Comprehensively outdone by Ronaldinho's Barca (He retired after this season and the world cup)
You can say a lot for Zidane's lack of league titles at Real. Makelele leaving for instance or mediocre managers like Camacho and Queiroz. But the fact is also that Zidane can and would go months without doing anything much. Plus he was a massive defensive liability which didn't matter when Jacquet got Karembu, Petit and Deschamps behind him in a short tournament but over a season it is much harder to justify.
Conclusion:
I am NOT saying Zidane was overrated. In fact his talent and technique cannot be rated highly enough. I loved him. He was a fantastic moments player. But he was not one you could lean on for a whole season. There were times where he simply COULD NOT BE arsed. In a sense he was the opposite of Thierry Henry who never a great player in big games but season in-season out he was far better than Zidane ever was.
(But Zidane also had big games where he was not that great.
In 1996 UEFA cup final he played the second leg as Bayern wiped the floor with Bourdeaux. Ok it was only Bourdeaux and it was Bayern after all.
In The 1997 final where he was marked out of the game by that titan of football Paul Lambert.
In 1998 final he started well but then Karembu and Redondo marked him out of the game as Madrid beat a ludicrously good Juventus side 1-0.
He played off the park by his replacement at Juve, Nedved when Juve beat Madrid 3-1 in 2003.)
Overall he was a great player. Probably didn’t do as much as he should have on a season by season basis. Great career. But he never had a so-called great peak that stretched over 2 or 3 seasons. Don’t get too carried away with the Balon D’or and so on. It’s indicative of nothing.
Ironically it is Bale who has resembled Zidane a lot. World record transfer. Obvious greatness. Great Euro performances. Often goes weeks and months not doing very much then goes and wins them the final in ridiculous style.
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Deco in the 04 Champions League.
Xavi in the 2008 Euro
Villa in the 2010 World Cup (five out of our 8 goals, and all of them were vital for our trophy).
Forlan was also unreal in 2010 (a performance that would've been legendary if it happened with, say, Brazil and led to a title),
Xavi in the 2008 Euro
Villa in the 2010 World Cup (five out of our 8 goals, and all of them were vital for our trophy).
Forlan was also unreal in 2010 (a performance that would've been legendary if it happened with, say, Brazil and led to a title),
This is about highest peak, not best player, otherwise it's just the usual names.
1982 Golden Ball, Golden Boot, Euro Player of the Year and World Player of the Year is a pretty damn high peak.
Radamel Falcao 2010-2013. One of the most deadliest peaks ever for strikers. I still remember when he destroyed Chelsea in the Super cup.
I've personally never seen a player better than Ronaldinho at his peak.
I rate Messi as the GOAT, but Ronaldinho for a short period was playing a different game to everyone esle.
I rate Messi as the GOAT, but Ronaldinho for a short period was playing a different game to everyone esle.
Thanks for this, my viewing of him is skewed towards the big games.
Davor Suker 1998
Davor Suker for Croatia in 96-98. Was on fire in the qualifiers for the Euro and at the WC in 98 to win the golden boot.
Great minds think alike
Robben World Cup 2014 or 2010 I cant remember.
Had a better tournament than Messi or Ronaldo have ever had.
Had a better tournament than Messi or Ronaldo have ever had.
Great post
Brilliant post! I was around all through Zidane’s time and agree with everything you’ve so eloquently said.
It's not all about awards, isn't it? He was finishing all of the chances that came his way playing a very good Italy and Juventus sides, but I'd definitely pick Scirea ahead of him as their best player that season/tournament. Personally, I'd say that Conti was at least his equal in their 1982 World Cup campaign and perhaps a better player as well. And he scored more goals than them, but I would be lying if I'd say that Rossi was a better player than Zico (+ Socrates & Falcão) in 1982.
I mean, was Igor Belanov the best European player in 1986? He had won the Ballon d'Or. Was Zidane better than Ronaldo in 1998? Et cetera.
I think that kind of analysis of Zidane from Haddock(outside some of the looks at particular big game performances )would be a lot more compelling if he was a forward. I can easily see a similar take being done on Iniesta in a few decades...not focused on inconsistency so much perhaps, but it'll be that he had a low output for an attacking midfielder/playmaker in such dominant teams.
No great midfield playmaker that scores 5-10 league goals a season can carry teams to titles without significant help. Pointing out that Zidane never really did that (i'm not sure that there is a myth that he did in the first place, is it no just restricted to the NT tournaments?) is not very interesting to me, it's just footballing common sense. That he was in big teams that didn't win the league or very occasionally had an outright bad season like Juve 98/99 isn't necessarily an indicator of obvious personal inconsistency either. From the many games of zidane i've watched, my impression was that he only became a player that could be labelled inconsistent as one of his main traits in his last 2 or 3 seasons at Real Madrid. Unless you're looking at him from the view of a goalscorer/direct decider of matches and not a midfield playmaker and orchestrator.
No great midfield playmaker that scores 5-10 league goals a season can carry teams to titles without significant help. Pointing out that Zidane never really did that (i'm not sure that there is a myth that he did in the first place, is it no just restricted to the NT tournaments?) is not very interesting to me, it's just footballing common sense. That he was in big teams that didn't win the league or very occasionally had an outright bad season like Juve 98/99 isn't necessarily an indicator of obvious personal inconsistency either. From the many games of zidane i've watched, my impression was that he only became a player that could be labelled inconsistent as one of his main traits in his last 2 or 3 seasons at Real Madrid. Unless you're looking at him from the view of a goalscorer/direct decider of matches and not a midfield playmaker and orchestrator.
this isn’t true. Zidane could give consistent 7/10 performances In his sleep, the issue with that is that he had so many 9/10 performances that those became the expected norm and thus his 7/10 performances felt more like 5/10.
the guy is one of the best players ever and the bashing of him needs to stop.
CR7 during the 2017 CL knockouts when he blasted goals in for fun against some of the best defensive teams in the world. Five goals against Bayern, a hat-trick against Atletico and a brace against Juve in the final. Ten goals in five games. He was inevitable.
From January 2013(when he signed) to May 2014 Daniel Sturridge was disproportionately good for us compared to the rest of his career, 18 months he was very very good
Godin was fanastic in 2014 and 2016.
Van Dijk 2018-present. Totally transferred Liverpool into a machine.
Van Dijk 2018-present. Totally transferred Liverpool into a machine.
The Emperor Adriano at the 2004 Copa America.
I remember watching it on TV and he just looked so dangerous. He was so strong and powerful and had such a wicked shot. Great feet for a big man too. I thought I was watching the arrival of the next big striker in the game.
He started really well when he returned to Inter, but the death of his father started a depression that spiraled into drug use and weight gain and a loss of apetite for the game.
One of the genuinely really sad stories in football.
I remember watching it on TV and he just looked so dangerous. He was so strong and powerful and had such a wicked shot. Great feet for a big man too. I thought I was watching the arrival of the next big striker in the game.
He started really well when he returned to Inter, but the death of his father started a depression that spiraled into drug use and weight gain and a loss of apetite for the game.
One of the genuinely really sad stories in football.
Mark Robin's 1990
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Lukas Podolski around 04/05 and 05/06
Came onto the scene with 29 goals in 32 games for Koln, and he also scored 12 goals in 17 games for Germany, then he was just never the same player, peaked as he started really and his records only got worse from there
Came onto the scene with 29 goals in 32 games for Koln, and he also scored 12 goals in 17 games for Germany, then he was just never the same player, peaked as he started really and his records only got worse from there
Probably Gazza, although England didn't win it.
Sneijder 2010. (The real) Treble, WC Final. He's the main man on those teams. Undeservedly robbed of ballon d'or by certain player.
People talking about things from the 50s how old are you guys?
For me it’s impossible to judge things unless if you watched every game and a significant amount of games from that competition to compare the other players.
Peaked the highest.. Messi and Ronaldo.
For me it’s impossible to judge things unless if you watched every game and a significant amount of games from that competition to compare the other players.
Peaked the highest.. Messi and Ronaldo.
Nedved 2010, carried czech republic to runner up. Was it 2010?
Darren fletcher 2008, world class that one season and gone the next.
Laudrup, Denmark
Owen 1998
Darren fletcher 2008, world class that one season and gone the next.
Laudrup, Denmark
Owen 1998
Strange that people who mentioned Zidane don't actually mention euro 2000 which was easily his peak as a footballer.
Van Basten in Euro 88. Started the tourney as a sub, ended wirg THAT volley.