As great as he is, not really the player we need. Now Yohan Cabaye, there’s a player who would work. Retired earlier this year so probably still in good enough shape.
Which midfielder do you prefer?
- Thread starter bond19821982
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You see VDB will most likely never ever ever ever ever ever play so some one is coming in.
The more I think of it, I believe Neves would be perfect for us, because regardless of whether Pogba stays or goes, we need a player as a DM who could pick up the ball from the defenders and spread it forward long or short, which would be a big weapon for us, imagine long balls behind the back four to Rashford or Sancho for them to run onto.
He like pinging balls straight to wingers for them to run at LB or RB (like Scholes used to for Valencia and Nani). Currently we have this poor sequence of Fred and Mctominay passing among themselves and eventually after back and forth passes (between defenders and CMs), the ball goes to our forward players with the other team setup to defend, but we never seem to play quick diagonal passes from DM position because Fred and Mctominay does not have the ability to spread the play from that position.
Plus he is very press resistant, which is again extremely ideal for a DM because he hardly has protection, losing the ball from DM position leads to clear cut chances and conceding of goals like the one against Liverpool where Fred had a nightmare. He is far better than Fred and Mctominay when it comes to keeping possession when pressed.
Lastly we can use him alongside Fred/Mctominay for them to press high up the pitch and him to make interceptions like Carrick and be the focal point for starting attacks. This is a solid midfield and could be used against top 6 sides, whereas against other 16 teams we can use him alongside Pogba/VDB/Mctominay (depending on opposition)
I have also seen Camavinga, as he is currently the favorite here, but I think he is more suited as a Box to Box midfielder for his skill set, he does not have long passing ability, he is also press resistant, but he also takes people on and dribbles alot to get away from opposition, which is fine as Box to Box midfielder, however a tad risky as DM.
Ideally we sign both and use Neves as DM and Camavinga as CM alongside him, however, due to budget restrictions, I believe we would be able to sign one and that should be Neves, because not only he ticks all the boxes, he will also be suitable for our current style of counter attacking and can start attacks from deeper position against lower league teams setup to defend.
He like pinging balls straight to wingers for them to run at LB or RB (like Scholes used to for Valencia and Nani). Currently we have this poor sequence of Fred and Mctominay passing among themselves and eventually after back and forth passes (between defenders and CMs), the ball goes to our forward players with the other team setup to defend, but we never seem to play quick diagonal passes from DM position because Fred and Mctominay does not have the ability to spread the play from that position.
Plus he is very press resistant, which is again extremely ideal for a DM because he hardly has protection, losing the ball from DM position leads to clear cut chances and conceding of goals like the one against Liverpool where Fred had a nightmare. He is far better than Fred and Mctominay when it comes to keeping possession when pressed.
Lastly we can use him alongside Fred/Mctominay for them to press high up the pitch and him to make interceptions like Carrick and be the focal point for starting attacks. This is a solid midfield and could be used against top 6 sides, whereas against other 16 teams we can use him alongside Pogba/VDB/Mctominay (depending on opposition)
I have also seen Camavinga, as he is currently the favorite here, but I think he is more suited as a Box to Box midfielder for his skill set, he does not have long passing ability, he is also press resistant, but he also takes people on and dribbles alot to get away from opposition, which is fine as Box to Box midfielder, however a tad risky as DM.
Ideally we sign both and use Neves as DM and Camavinga as CM alongside him, however, due to budget restrictions, I believe we would be able to sign one and that should be Neves, because not only he ticks all the boxes, he will also be suitable for our current style of counter attacking and can start attacks from deeper position against lower league teams setup to defend.
I think ole is thinking Twist or bust and he’s out, in other words he has to play an attacking 4-1-2-3 at old Trafford with a pure CDM in the mould of Declan Rice, Neves or Kamavinga with a potential BTB midfielder like Goretzka or Saul if Pogba leaves with a 3412 or 343 against the top 6 away and home, my guess is he’s thinking he has to sell Pereira, Dalot, Jones, Martial and loan deals to try and generate £60M to sign a CDM and another Right Back.
My guess is our first 11 will be
Henderson
Trippier
Varane
Maguire
Shaw
Neves or Fred
Bruno
Pogba
Sancho
Cavani
Rashford
and the 2nd 11
De Gea
Bissaka
Bailey
Lindelof
Telles
N Matic S Mctominay
J Lingard or J Mata
D V De Beek
Amad or Elanga
Greenwood
D James
He’s thinking my first 11 is as good as any in PL and I have ready made players to come into the system or play in 343 or 4231 and I can use a squad of 25 promoting 2 youngsters
Pogba will go on a free next year and we’ll try for Goretzka on a free to replace and go all out for Kane or Haland if they are still available.
Let’s be clear here if poor ole has peaked already and can not overturn our poor old Trafford form, his runners up place and 74 points from last season will mean very little and he won’t last too long in the new season !
My guess is our first 11 will be
Henderson
Trippier
Varane
Maguire
Shaw
Neves or Fred
Bruno
Pogba
Sancho
Cavani
Rashford
and the 2nd 11
De Gea
Bissaka
Bailey
Lindelof
Telles
N Matic S Mctominay
J Lingard or J Mata
D V De Beek
Amad or Elanga
Greenwood
D James
He’s thinking my first 11 is as good as any in PL and I have ready made players to come into the system or play in 343 or 4231 and I can use a squad of 25 promoting 2 youngsters
Pogba will go on a free next year and we’ll try for Goretzka on a free to replace and go all out for Kane or Haland if they are still available.
Let’s be clear here if poor ole has peaked already and can not overturn our poor old Trafford form, his runners up place and 74 points from last season will mean very little and he won’t last too long in the new season !
Pogba will go, and I believe Van De Beek was brought in as his replacement. He'll get more minutes and I think he'll surprise a few people this season.
I think we're looking for a dm that can dictate and play with discipline. And I don't think there are many about. Neves is a bit of a punt but I think he's the least risky option.
I think we're looking for a dm that can dictate and play with discipline. And I don't think there are many about. Neves is a bit of a punt but I think he's the least risky option.
The smart idea would be get Camavinga in this year. Offer Goretzka a good enough deal for him to join next year on a free (pretty sure his contract is up) and go all out for Haaland. This team is a beast.
Rashford Haaland Sancho
Goretzka Bruno
Camavinga
Shaw Maguire Varane AWB
Henderson
Obviously obvious.
I just blew my load
Brozovic really does look a nice fit and he has 1 year left. He could play as the holder in a 4-3-3 or paired with Fred or VDB in a pivot.
Like someone said in a previous post all of these midfielders we are linked to offer different things to this team so it really comes down to what type of player that Ole is looking for and whether or not they are obtainable
Rice. If only we could afford him. Leave the passing from deep to the CBs.
Big IF but if we sign Rice he will sort out our defensive shape, will intercept and recover the ball and will give it simple to one of our guys.
But, realistically, nobody. Unless we sell Pogba which will mean we’re looking for a creative attacking midfielder. In that case probably nobody although I would want Grealish.
Fred supposedly was great for Brazil lately. McT is highly rated at the club. I don’t think midfield is a priority for us even though it probably should be.
Big IF but if we sign Rice he will sort out our defensive shape, will intercept and recover the ball and will give it simple to one of our guys.
But, realistically, nobody. Unless we sell Pogba which will mean we’re looking for a creative attacking midfielder. In that case probably nobody although I would want Grealish.
Fred supposedly was great for Brazil lately. McT is highly rated at the club. I don’t think midfield is a priority for us even though it probably should be.
I'm guessing a new DM is out of the question if Pogba is staying, which seems to be the case according to the latest reports.
I am getting more convinced that despite the noises still not being loud that Camavinga is Ole's top target, initially I thought it was Rice but now the Lingard stuff to West Ham is seemingly going nowhere think our focus has changed. Fully expecting Utd to give Eduardo an ultimatum late in the window and if wants to wait it out can see us going for either Saul/Neves instead
Milinkovic-Savic anyone? I work with a Lazio fan and he says that he is complete midfielder, can play DM, CM or AM. Because of his physical attributes and ability he thinks he’d do well in England
If Pogba leaves I think Donny is his direct replacement and with that we’ll probably play 433. However I’d still target one of Neves, Saul, Aouar and try to bring in Camavinga with one of them. Neves and Saul can obviously play deeper. Aouar can but think he would need a Fred or McT with him.
Good shout. Money better spent.
If Pogba is sold, I could imagine it to be sensible to enhance the options and depth of quality in the right back position, as that is something that might also help get the best out of Sancho.
So, use the 45m you can expect for Pogba to buy Trippier, and then invest in a midfield talent that doesn't necessarily have to be so prominent or expensive, but is promising (let's not forget Van De Beek is there too).
I'd say Michael Cuisance fits the bill best, hugely talented, powerful and skilled no. 6-8, great on the ball, has a goal threat, would be a far bigger name already if he hadn't been marginalized by the chopping and changing going on at Bayern. He should be available for something like 25-30m.
Or, if you want to go for the big solution, there's World Cup winning French international Tolisso, he's like a more efficient, no-nonsense Pogba, without the flash and the spectacular, but also without the circus, attitude and toxic agent; available for probably as little as 40-50m.
So, use the 45m you can expect for Pogba to buy Trippier, and then invest in a midfield talent that doesn't necessarily have to be so prominent or expensive, but is promising (let's not forget Van De Beek is there too).
I'd say Michael Cuisance fits the bill best, hugely talented, powerful and skilled no. 6-8, great on the ball, has a goal threat, would be a far bigger name already if he hadn't been marginalized by the chopping and changing going on at Bayern. He should be available for something like 25-30m.
Or, if you want to go for the big solution, there's World Cup winning French international Tolisso, he's like a more efficient, no-nonsense Pogba, without the flash and the spectacular, but also without the circus, attitude and toxic agent; available for probably as little as 40-50m.
We may not get anyone, if we don't, then we have to think about McT holding the fort till we sign a proper DM.
If Pogba were to stay ,and the potential fee's we'll receive for the likes of Dalot, Lingard and Perriera were to solely go towards Trippier, is there any good experienced deep lying midfielder out who could be a decent stop gap ?
De Gea
AWB Varane Maguire Shaw
Camavinga Neves
Sancho Bruno Rashford
Cavani
AWB Varane Maguire Shaw
Camavinga Neves
Sancho Bruno Rashford
Cavani
I honestly have no idea how someone who has probably seen Scholes and Carrick can have this mindset, especially in comparison to Fred and McTominay.
CDM
Casemiro/Saul
CM
Goretzka/Neves/Camavinga/Ruiz/Kroos
One that can tackle and break up play and one that can play.
My choice for a 433 would be Casemiro and Neves
My choices for a 4231 would be Saul and Goretzka.
Casemiro/Saul
CM
Goretzka/Neves/Camavinga/Ruiz/Kroos
One that can tackle and break up play and one that can play.
My choice for a 433 would be Casemiro and Neves
My choices for a 4231 would be Saul and Goretzka.
Yeah give me Scholes and Carrick all day long.
I have been banging on for ages about the lack of quality in CM, especially in the defensive third, but a large part of the problem is positioning which is McFred’s worse weakness and Rice’s greatest strength.
I did say that CM probably should be a priority but I don’t think the club will see it that way, now that we have strengthened at CB and have two CBs who are good on the ball, especially if Pogba stays. Cover at full back is probably a higher priority for the club.
Assuming Pogba stays, I think improving the defensive core of the midfield is more important than upping the creative element but I would take either. On balance my first pick would be Rice (those who disagree can rest easy as he is much too expensive).
I've long had the feeling that the Club just don't really know what they are trying to achieve in a Midfield combination.
Even now, those players that we are being linked with are a right mixed bag, Niguez, Neves, Camavinga, Rice, Bellingham, Grealish....
They are all quite different from each other, so what exactly are we looking for?
We heard last year, that if Pogba leaves, we'll try to sign Grealish, or maybe Rice.
They are as different as chalk & cheese..!
Even now, those players that we are being linked with are a right mixed bag, Niguez, Neves, Camavinga, Rice, Bellingham, Grealish....
They are all quite different from each other, so what exactly are we looking for?
We heard last year, that if Pogba leaves, we'll try to sign Grealish, or maybe Rice.
They are as different as chalk & cheese..!
Fair enough. I'd say our biggest weakness in central midfield is the lack of quality in terms of passing, not what happens without the ball. However, I would say that having someone there, that's better in terms of positioning wouldn't hurt. Boubacar Kamara could offer, what Rice would offer at a cheaper price. Currently we have 5 midfielders for 2 spots, we are probably looking to move on one of them before we sign another.
That has mostly to do with us not being sure what happens with Pogba. Grealish and Saul likely the Pogba replacements, while Neves, Rice and Camavinga are seen as upgrades on Fred and McTominay.
Brozovic and Parejo are our best bets in terms of experienced midfielders. I doubt Inter would let Brozovic go though. Parejo is 32, so in the truest sense of the word he'd be a stop-gap.
You'd have the same issue, that we currently have with Pogba and Bruno. How do they play together? In a diamond shape, it would work, but that's not what we have Sancho bought for, right? Milinkovic-Savic, like Bruno, is a high risk, high reward player and for those type of players you need a savety net. If I'm not mistaken Lazio were playing with 3-5-2 last year. Milinkovic-Savic had 2 other midfielders next to him along with 3 players behind him, we don't play like that. He also isn't a complete midfielder.
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Good post. I agree that’s what it looks like.
My reading of it is that we aren’t purposely looking for a particular type of player. I think we are trying to get a combination that gives the team, as a whole, the best balance of attack and defence.
This is the reason we saw McFred so often despite their shortcomings - it was usually the least bad combination for the balance of the team.
I believe the club look for quality players with the right personality. So-called “United” type players. Both Grealish and Rice, for example, fit into that. The way the world is, you can’t get both of those guys (probably none of them this summer) but you just keep trying to recruit quality to give good options for selection for the first eleven and, also importantly, on the bench.
Another way to go is to say “we need a Carrick type” but I don’t think that is efficient. If such a player is available, with the quality and personality we need, then yes he becomes one of the targets.
But then, that's why we have this stupid situation with Donny.
We've signed him because he is a quality player, but now we have no idea how to utilise his skills.
And I think the same will be true if we got Camavinga, for example....Have the club thought about how he fits alongside Bruno and Pogba?
Or do we just sign him because he is good...?
There just seems to be no clear plan of direction for the midfield.
It really wouldn't surprise me at all if nobody is signed and we go ahead with the same pool of players. Better the Devil you know....
Leandro Paredes from PSG seems like he could be available. Hes a good playmaking DM. Obviously wevve got an asset theyre interested in as well so...
I agree there is no clear plan, other than trying to sign quality. I disagree about DVB - he is quality but is still adapting.
I agree we probably won’t sign a CM as I don’t think we will have any joy raising funds from sales.
The more I think about it Ruben Neves might be the player ready to break out and become truly world class for a big club.
Neves is only 24 still I believe so about to hit his peak years straight away.
As we saw with Carrick who was a similar age when he joined and actually a similar player too. Not overlay physical but very tidy defensively and world class on the ball.
Neves will have to become world class on the ball but there aren’t many midfielders with his passing range in world football so it’s not a stretch.
Neves is only 24 still I believe so about to hit his peak years straight away.
As we saw with Carrick who was a similar age when he joined and actually a similar player too. Not overlay physical but very tidy defensively and world class on the ball.
Neves will have to become world class on the ball but there aren’t many midfielders with his passing range in world football so it’s not a stretch.
My theory is Ole's midfield vision was constrained by his personel, in particular his 2 CBs. I think Ole felt forced to play a double pivot last year due to both CBs lack of pace and Matic's lackk of pace. With the addition of Varane I think Ole will be able to play in a preferred 4-3-3. Let's also remember that Matic, Pogba, and Bruno looked very good as the three CMs the end of 2020 season. But as Matic has aged and therefore lost pace, plus the slow CBs, Ole changed the formation. It is my hope that after offloading some players we will be looking hard at Trippier and a CM/CDM that can play a single pivot in a 4-3-3.
I like the look of Caqueret. Gives me Verratti vibes, but more physical.
Pretty interesting graphic. This Guimaraes seems interesting. He looks very good at the Olympics too.
Philips?Pretty interesting graphic. This Guimaraes seems interesting. He looks very good at the Olympics too.
About 8 down on the top right. A couple above Bellingham.
Find a new Modrić.
Someone to keep the ball, make zero passing mistakes per game, recycle the ball.
An untackleable player. Prime Modrić or prime David Silva.
Who that player is? No fecking idea.
But he's hidden somewhere in the leagues of Europe waiting to be discovered.
Someone to keep the ball, make zero passing mistakes per game, recycle the ball.
An untackleable player. Prime Modrić or prime David Silva.
Who that player is? No fecking idea.
But he's hidden somewhere in the leagues of Europe waiting to be discovered.
I’m saying he’s in the wrong place
? It’s based on actual statistical data. That’s what his main strength is according to fbref’s stats.
Is he? He’s not a great passer or dribbler.
Whether someone is good at something is not a statistical result, but a result of an interpretation of stats. Stats only give quantities, not qualities.