Which of our player's fit Amorim's style/tactics particularly well or poorly?

bb8

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Thread is not about who our best players are, nor who's underrated or overrated. Rather, it's about who would be an especially good (or bad) fit for the way Amorim wants to play. I'll start.

Good fits: I think De Ligt's lack of mobility might be better protected in a back 3 than a back 4, where he has CB's on either side of him. Similarly, I think Lisandro is suited to a system where he's less likely to be making challenges right in front of goal and has more protection. I also think someone like Rashford (maybe Garnacho too) will be better suited to playing more towards the center of the pitch given that's where he likes to shoot from, whereas ETH had wingers out wide.

Bad fits: I worry that Ugarte might have a harder time if we play 3-4-3 or 3-5-2; given the fewer midfielders on-ball ability seems like it'd be at a premium. I also don't know if any of Dalot/Mazroui/Malacia have ideal capabilities for a wingback role. Seems like there'd be even more importance on finding someone at that spot in coming transfer windows.
 
Why would Ugarte be a bad fit when they've previously worked well together?
 
Ugarte should be the least of our concerns since it was Amorim who coached him into being on the world's most coveted DMs.

Its probably our attackers who should be concerned. Most of all Zirzkee - no idea where he fits in his proposed system. Not enough of a goalscorer or workhorse to lead the line, not enough pace for the wider wingback roles, and far too clumsy for the AM roles.
 
Thread is not about who our best players are, nor who's underrated or overrated. Rather, it's about who would be an especially good (or bad) fit for the way Amorim wants to play. I'll start.

Good fits: I think De Ligt's lack of mobility might be better protected in a back 3 than a back 4, where he has CB's on either side of him. Similarly, I think Lisandro is suited to a system where he's less likely to be making challenges right in front of goal and has more protection. I also think someone like Rashford (maybe Garnacho too) will be better suited to playing more towards the center of the pitch given that's where he likes to shoot from, whereas ETH had wingers out wide.

Bad fits: I worry that Ugarte might have a harder time if we play 3-4-3 or 3-5-2; given the fewer midfielders on-ball ability seems like it'd be at a premium. I also don't know if any of Dalot/Mazroui/Malacia have ideal capabilities for a wingback role. Seems like there'd be even more importance on finding someone at that spot in coming transfer windows.
Based on how people talk about his sporting team i dont think a lack of midfield positions will be an issue. Its more of a 3421 with Bruno and other attacking midfielders in the 2. I think he'll be competing with Casemiro for a roll, same as currently (previously i guess)
 
Bad fits: I worry that Ugarte might have a harder time if we play 3-4-3 or 3-5-2; given the fewer midfielders on-ball ability seems like it'd be at a premium. I also don't know if any of Dalot/Mazroui/Malacia have ideal capabilities for a wingback role. Seems like there'd be even more importance on finding someone at that spot in coming transfer windows.

Plenty of people will laugh at you on this take.

Predicted good fits: Onana, Yoro (based on his playing style at Lille), Shaw, Dalot, Ugarte, Mainoo, Amad, Rashford, Garnacho, Hoijlund.

Bad fits: Maguire, Bruno, Anthony, Zirkzee
 
Plenty of people will laugh at you on this take.

Predicted good fits: Onana, Yoro (based on his playing style at Lille), Shaw, Dalot, Ugarte, Mainoo, Amad, Rashford, Garnacho, Hoijlund.

Bad fits: Maguire, Bruno, Anthony, Zirkzee
Actually think Maguire would be a good fit for him. Maguire's played his best football for England as part of a back 3. Bruno I feel will also surprise some.
 
We had issues scoring goals when we played 4 defenders, now we might play 5. Are our fullbacks good enough going forward to offer us width? I don't think so, not least due to Shaw's injuries. Mazraoui is skillful but can’t really beat his man.
 
Ugarte, Martinez, Mainoo, Onana, Garnacho, Mazraoui and I believe he will have an impact on Hojlund and make Fernandes play well again.
 
We’ll just have to wait and see, too many times I’ve seen people try and predict who the manager will and won’t like and it turns out the way people assume.

LVG was supposed to prefer RVP over Rooney, Bruno was supposed to be benched when ETH got appointed. There’s no point trying to guess :lol:
 
There may be a few qualified to comment here but so many chipping in when they don't have a clue, we really don't know if he will even play the same system, it's a different league.

Revisionism suits in hindsight but ETH was seen as tactically astute and played exciting football and quickly recognised he couldn't do that here, we have no idea what sort of team/ style he would look to build as from the people that do know him quite well, they all say he is fairly pragmatic.
 
Actually think Maguire would be a good fit for him. Maguire's played his best football for England as part of a back 3. Bruno I feel will also surprise some.

I'm basing this on how mobile Amorim's centre backs are and how they are involved in building up. Bruno I think will be in for a tough fight to be one of the midfield 2 when Amorim seems to have one of them as a pure destroyer (Ugarte) and the other more box-to-box.
 
Plenty of people will laugh at you on this take.

Predicted good fits: Onana, Yoro (based on his playing style at Lille), Shaw, Dalot, Ugarte, Mainoo, Amad, Rashford, Garnacho, Hoijlund.

Bad fits: Maguire, Bruno, Anthony, Zirkzee

RA tends to play a physical CB in the middle and Maguire can play that role well enough, similar how Coates did for 3 years.
Bruno is a perfect fit, similar to Pote role in Sporting (...And he's even Portuguese as a bonus).
 
I wonder if Garnacho could play more centrally if we might not be using wingers?
 
I'm basing this on how mobile Amorim's centre backs are and how they are involved in building up. Bruno I think will be in for a tough fight to be one of the midfield 2 when Amorim seems to have one of them as a pure destroyer (Ugarte) and the other more box-to-box.
I actually expect Bruno to be deployed in one of the two attacking positions behind the striker. If I recall the left of his two AMs tend to play a more traditional number 10 role.

The two CM positions you'd expect would be contended by Ugarte/Casemiro/Mainoo/Eriksen.
 
Bruno I think he'll use as a vital player but on paper is the obvious one that doesn't fit in naturally. I think he'll likely use him deeper or sometimes as a right forward but probably as CM mostly.

Benefit:
  • Yoro - young and new to the Prem. Easier to adapt as part of back 3 than just a CB partnership
  • Martinez - issues as a back 4 that have been more noticeable after his promising early start
  • Ugarte - obvious, he excelled under Amorim in the first place
  • Rashford, Garnacho, Amad, Mount - all players who are far more suited to playing as the wide attacking players in a 3-4-3 than the wide players in a 4-2-3-1 where they have more defensive responsibility. You get the extra natural cover in this system.
Problems:
  • Bruno - 343 doesn't have a #10. Either he plays as a wide attacker in the front 3, or drops deeper as a CM
  • LWB - all of ours are dead, so same issue as a normal LB in a 4 at the back system
  • De ligt - not convinced it'll be a big issue and I think he'll be fine as the center CB, but he's not comfortable as a RCB in a 3.
The rest are mostly neutral, on paper. Amorim will help everyone if he just coaches normally though and doesn't put in idiotic systems. I'd imagine we see something like:
  • GK - onana, altay
  • RCB - Yoro, Lindelof
  • CB - De Ligt, Maguire
  • LCB - Martinez, Evans, (Shaw fill in)
  • RWB - Dalot, Mazraoui
  • CM (def) - Ugarte, Casemiro
  • CM (playmaker) - Bruno, Mainoo, Eriksen
  • LWB - Shaw, Malacia, (dalot fill in)
  • RW - Amad, Mount?, Antony, (Bruno/Garnacho fill?)
  • LW - Rashford, Garnacho
  • CF - Hojlund, Zirkzee
 
Maguire & Lindelof, possibly Shaw & Rashford.

Can't see how anyone else fits in, so luckily these 4 can stay while everyone else fcuks off.
 
Admittedly, I'm not that familiar with Amorim's system but I'd be surprised if Bruno could play that centre mid role. We've seen time and time again that he's not a midfielder.

Seems more suited to one of the roles behind the striker, which I understand are closer to 10s than wingers.
 
Good fits: Onana, Yoro, Maguire, De Ligt, Dalot, Mazraoui, Casemiro, Ugarte, Mainoo, Amad, Zirkzee, Eriksen.

Bad fits: Fernandes, Rashford, Holjund, Antony, Garnacho.
 
Hojlund Zirkzee
Bruno
Maz Ugarte Eriksen Dalot
Martinez Maguire DeLigt
Onana
 
Why would Ugarte be a bad fit when they've previously worked well together?
I wrote why I think he might be a bad fit in my OP, so not sure why you're asking again.

It seems fairly silly to think "success with old coach" = "success when you're reunited" without adding any more context. if that were true, then Antony would be excelling here, since he previously did well with ETH at Ajax. Unfortunately, it's not always that simple. For example, maybe Ugarte's superior athleticism propelled him to success in the inferior Portuguese league against lesser players despite being a bad fit for Amorim's system?

I could be wrong (I often am). It's only a message board. :)
 
There may be a few qualified to comment here but so many chipping in when they don't have a clue, we really don't know if he will even play the same system, it's a different league.

Revisionism suits in hindsight but ETH was seen as tactically astute and played exciting football and quickly recognised he couldn't do that here, we have no idea what sort of team/ style he would look to build as from the people that do know him quite well, they all say he is fairly pragmatic.
This is correct. United is a titanic and we will soon run out of Captain Smiths.

Every time we hit an iceberg, we just bring the ship up again and attach a new captain while keeping the same holes made by the iceberg.

Soon no player will want to come here and no manager will want to take the risk of ruining his career.

How a manager used their tactics at a different club is of no relevance.

The managers did not have to deal with toxic players like Rashford, Shaw, Antony and others.

Nothing will come out of this new manager either.
 
Why would Ugarte be a bad fit when they've previously worked well together?

Van de Beek and Antony say hello.

Different league, different team, different expectations, different pressures.

While I don't think he'll be a bad fit, success isn’t guaranteed just because Ugarte thrived under Amorim at Sporting. It’s a whole new ball game here, and what worked in one environment doesn’t always translate perfectly to another, unfortunately.
 
Every time de Ligt played as a right sided CB in a three at the back system for our national team, he was terrible. He might be good as the central option though.
 
I think Bruno would most likely struggle in this new system as he isn’t disciplined enough to play in the 2 midfielder positions and isn’t mobile enough to play in the narrow front 3.
 
Bad fits: I worry that Ugarte might have a harder time if we play 3-4-3 or 3-5-2; given the fewer midfielders on-ball ability seems like it'd be at a premium. I also don't know if any of Dalot/Mazroui/Malacia have ideal capabilities for a wingback role. Seems like there'd be even more importance on finding someone at that spot in coming transfer windows.
Maybe I'm way off, but for a long time I've liked the idea of Dalot as RCB in a back 3/5. I think he's got the physicality to do well there, like Azpilicueta at Chelsea.

I think either that or wing back would be more natural roles for him than inverting into central midfield like he has been doing.
 
Plenty of people will laugh at you on this take.

Predicted good fits: Onana, Yoro (based on his playing style at Lille), Shaw, Dalot, Ugarte, Mainoo, Amad, Rashford, Garnacho, Hoijlund.

Bad fits: Maguire, Bruno, Anthony, Zirkzee

Maguire and Bruno should be really good fits
 
Van de Beek and Antony say hello.

Different league, different team, different expectations, different pressures.

While I don't think he'll be a bad fit, success isn’t guaranteed just because Ugarte thrived under Amorim at Sporting. It’s a whole new ball game here, and what worked in one environment doesn’t always translate perfectly to another, unfortunately.
Well, then the whole team will be in a questionable mode. What makes you think only Ugarte will be a misfit?

DvB was already a flop when ETH got here.
 
On the ball - I think Bruno could probably play the Trincao role fairly easily. I don't see any of our current wingers thriving as the wide midfielders in the 4 because I think the role both requires a lot of defensive discipline, an ability to make smart passing decisions, and an ability to cross from the outside. All of our wingers seem to be lacking in one or more of those traits.

I haven't seen enough of how Amorim sets up off the ball to speak to that, but if he wants to play a high press high backline, we continue to lack mobility and power, especially in our forward press and central midfield, to do much.
 
Good Fits:

Lindelöf – While his contract is up in the summer, I genuinely think he’d be an excellent choice for the right centre-back role if Amorim sticks to his favoured 3-4-2-1 setup. Lindelöf is underrated both defensively and in possession. His passing range is strong, and he’s capable of carrying the ball through midfield effectively, adding composure and progression from the back.

Amad – If we’re leaning toward inside forwards rather than touchline-hugging wingers, we’ll need players comfortable in tight spaces. Amad is skilled in this area, with close control and an ability to beat defenders, similar to Trincão. His technical ability would be invaluable in creating space and maintaining fluidity in the final third.

Højlund – There’s a lot of talk around Gyökeres, but from watching Amorim’s style, Højlund seems the ideal striker for the role. He combines the energy to run channels with the physicality to battle centre-backs, offering an outlet for longer balls and the dynamism to exploit defensive gaps.

Mount – His effectiveness in the inside forward role under Tuchel was notable. Like Amad, Mount excels in tight spaces and is always looking to receive on the half-turn. He also makes intelligent runs in behind and, although we haven’t seen it consistently yet, brings a goal threat we saw frequently at Chelsea.

Ugarte – Researching Amorim’s system, it’s clear that centre backs are the primary ball-dictators. This suits Ugarte’s game perfectly, allowing him to focus more on facilitating play rather than directing it, emphasising his defensive capabilities while letting others manage distribution.

Mainoo – With his technical skill set, Mainoo seems like he’d thrive under almost any manager. His composure and technique allow him to adapt seamlessly, making him a versatile and reliable option.

Bruno – Similar to Mount, Bruno could fit well as an inside forward. As our most creative player, his presence in the final third would cause consistent danger. Against West Ham, he created multiple scoring opportunities and could be even more effective in this system, where he'd be given the licence to play higher up.

Bad Fits:

Zirkzee – While he’s good at dropping back to link play, Amorim seems to favour strikers who stretch the field vertically, with inside forwards exploiting pockets of space. Zirkzee’s style doesn’t align perfectly with that approach.

Mazraoui – He doesn’t naturally suit the wing-back role, in my opinion. Time would tell, but he might struggle to fit Amorim’s system.

Uncertain Fits:

Rashford – This could go either way. Rashford has always thrived when partnered with an overlapping player, like Shaw in the past, which allowed him to cut inside. If he plays as an inside forward, he might benefit similarly. However, Amorim’s system would require consistent close control and quick, sharp play in central areas. Rashford’s decision-making and first touch can sometimes falter in these situations, which could affect his fit here. However, if we're going back to the striker role, like Højlund, Rashford brings strong channel-running ability and can effectively stretch defences with his pace. My concern, however, lies with his physicality and hold-up play. When tasked with the demands of a target man role, Rashford might struggle to consistently win duels and maintain possession under pressure. While he excels in space, leading the line in a physical capacity could limit his effectiveness in Amorim's system.

Antony – I struggle to see him securing a spot in any of the front three positions, but he could potentially be effective as a left wing-back. He has the stamina and work rate to cover the full length of the pitch, and although we haven’t seen much of him on the left, he likely has the technique to deliver quality crosses from that side.

On reflection, it looks like we already have a solid foundation to transition into a 3-4-2-1 system. Moving forward, Amorim would likely aim to upgrade at wing-back, as well as strengthen the midfield and centre-back positions, but the core setup is promising.

Hojlund/Rashford
Bruno/Mount Amad/Garnacho
Antony/Shaw Mainoo/Eriksen Ugarte/Casemiro Dalot/Mazaroui
Martinez/Shaw De Ligt/Maguire Yoro/Lindelof
Onana/Balyindir​
 
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Well, then the whole team will be in a questionable mode. What makes you think only Ugarte will be a misfit?

DvB was already a flop when ETH got here.

Van de Beek and Antony say hello.

Different league, different team, different expectations, different pressures.

While I don't think he'll be a bad fit, success isn’t guaranteed just because Ugarte thrived under Amorim at Sporting. It’s a whole new ball game here, and what worked in one environment doesn’t always translate perfectly to another, unfortunately.

I specifically said I don’t think he’d be a poor fit, but his success isn’t guaranteed just because he thrived under Amorim before.

Van de Beek struggled when Ten Hag reunited with him at United— but somehow Antony’s situation conveniently didn’t get a mention.
 
Overall, I think the whole squad can work well if he goes with his 3-4-3.

Crazy prediction: Antony comes good under the new coach by moving to the right wing in the 3-4-3.
 
I think Bruno, Rashford, and Garnacho could all struggle, not really having the skillets it seems would be asked of them.
 
I have a feeling that he will opt for a 442 diamond.
Save this comment.
 
I actually think a back 3 will be very good for us if we go that way especially when yoro back. By next summer or even January a better lhs option is needed.

People won't like me saying it but i think fernandes might have a resurgence.

Hojlund too, if Gyokeres is anything to go by.
 
He plays with his defence very high up in possession, all 3 in the opposition half. I think Yoro will be fine but there's a chance De Ligt and Martinez could be exposed. Especially if there were teething problems and we didn't get control over games.

I think most of our midfielders will benefit if they have 3 behind them, though in relation to my above point, if we get countered on then they could be exposed. I think we need to control possession a lot better and our press needs to be better organised.

I think our attackers will struggle if he goes with the same system as he did at Sporting. But I'm fine with that if the rest looks promising. We can sort the attack out and I'd be happy to see the back of some of our current attackers anyway.
 
We often-times build up in a 3-4-3 so I'm not too concerned about the players adapting to his system when in possession. I just hope whatever he implements works.

I think the most interesting changes will come in the front 3, but I can't see him dropping Bruno and Rashford in the 1st couple of games.

Yoro - De Ligt - Martinez
Mazraoui - Eriksen - Mainoo - Dalot
Bruno - Rashford
Hojlund
 
Whole team except wingers.

Pretty much this. This isn't the thread for a total takedown of the prior manager, but his wingers let him down to one degree or another.

Who I don't see fitting in well at all is Rashford but I could be wrong about that. As disappointing as Zirkzee was under the previous manager, I can see him thriving under the new manager.