Got it, a man can dream...
Which players will be the biggest winners and losers under Rangnick?
- Thread starter Dante
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Bring it on. I'm not afraid76889755 bookmarks have just gone in hoping to prove you wrong.
It's certainly going to be sink or swim time now for the wide forwards. Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho are all going to have to shape up fast and meet the demands of a modern forward, or they're going to end up playing for mid-table sides before too long. None of them work hard enough right now in my opinion.
A lot of people writing off Martial (for good reason, I suppose) but when he hit that purple patch last year his pressing during that time was actually pretty decent, and he’s also good at quick one twos while moving forward at pace. Too early to say of course, but would be nice if he could click again.
Yes and how pliable and receptive to coaching each player is will most likely determine their fate. They’ll be given a fair chance to impress and show growth and unless they downright refuse or have an attitude problem, they’re not just going to be binned off.
LVG turned so many players deemed incapable of retentive football into a high possession unit via coaching and drilling what he wanted and he wasn’t doing so with world beaters; I’m looking forward to seeing what kind of tune Rangnick gets out of these players.
I mean the two most commonly being thrown around are Pogba and Martial and being relatively familiar with what he wants in players I can't see Rangnick getting them to work.
Even putting aside what they can, can't or wont do - Pogba has one foot out the door already due to his contract winding down and if there's an eye on the future like there should be we'll probably be phasing him out of the team altogether.
Martial has never shown an inclination to play with intensity under any manager so I can't see him starting now. With Ronaldo likely being accommodated and the other options available it's just tough to see where he can fit in.
I sniggered at this!
I'm still believing us getting him is too good to be true, I didn't know anything about him until reading on here, but he sounds very exciting and actually knows how to coach, both things we have lacked for a while..
I think he will be told to work with Ronaldo as he's our most marketable player. I can see him adapting and having everyone else press and working to get the ball to Ronaldo
From what people are saying about him, I get the sense he doesn't suffer fools gladly and lazy underperforming players will not be tolerated, regardless of who they are. I'd like to think there are no favourites, and everyone is picked on performance, that should light fires under a few backsides.
Pogba will have nowhere to hide. He either plays as we all know he had the ability to do so, or he's gone. He should be keen to work with an actual coach, so if he doesn't, I don't want his attitude around here. He will be an interesting one to unpick
Based on the comment up thread about Ralf liking intelligent players, several of ours are going to drive him mad to start with, he won't tolerate Rashy running with his head down into blind alleys
It will presumably almost be like a boot camp, I'm not surprised they liked Ole as a person as he probably wasn't very hard on them, I don't know of Ralf's persona but get the sense they're in for a shock. It's a shame he couldn't have come in over the summer, to get them fitter for his pressing, they've spent the last year sauntering about the pitch....
I can see him liking Lingard and Fred as they are not lazy. It'll be interesting to see what proper coaching does to the likes of McT.
I don't imagine we will see instant results, as there's 3 years of poor coaching to unpick
Realistically only Martial out of those is going to leave. Even if the other three don't do well with Rangnick, we're not going to sell them. Two academy golden boys and one £70m signing. Also it's not like Rashford and Greenwood haven't been doing enough already - they've been two of our most important players over the last couple of seasons.
Pogba and Martial are fair enough - but then I think many managers would struggle to make them work.
In fact, unless the next manager is Deschamps (and we sign Kante), I don't see much hope for successfully integrating Pogba in any kind of realistic setup.
If Rangnick gets a proper tune out of either of 'em, I'll be very impressed.
But - to the point: other frequent mentions include Rashford (simply strange to me, seems clearly agenda based), McTominay (he's underwhelming but why should he be immune to good coaching?), Maguire (people don't like him), AWB (again - why couldn't he improve under a good coach?), Shaw (Rangnick considered him sub-par a couple of years ago - which he was), Ronaldo (can't press - bollocks, of course he can, it's a question of integrating him in a particular system)...and probably more.
DdG has to be a casualty. The whole Alisson/Ederson come miles off your line sweeper keeper thing is not in his toolbox at all. Did I imagine this or did Spain try to high press at a World Cup and he got annihilated?
I reckon McTominay will be used quite heavily. Let's face it Mourinho loved him because he was coachable enough to be the type of player Mourinho wanted at the time, no reason why it couldn't be the same under Rangnick.
Pogba is likely to have issues but hes gone soon anyway and if Rangnick is moving upstairs in the summer then I cant see him in any way advocating a massive new deal for him.
Pogba is likely to have issues but hes gone soon anyway and if Rangnick is moving upstairs in the summer then I cant see him in any way advocating a massive new deal for him.
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I've seen several posts today stating (paraphrased) that X passes sideways, so he'll be dropped (because Rangnick doesn't like sideways passing). Which is precisely the sort of fallacy we're talking about here.
The underlying assumption seemingly being that sideways passing is an inherent trait - the player just can't help himself, like Zoolander can't make left turns (or was it right turns) - which is absurd. Even a painfully average player can be instructed to pass the ball according to a plan - he may not do it with finesse and brilliance, but he can follow a basic instruction (pass the ball forward to X or Y, making runs in front of you, don't knock it five yards sideways per default). This is what a coach does - he drills his players, makes them follow a game plan, etc. The better the coach is, the more likely he is to make the plan work even when the players aren't that good individually.
Losers:
AWB is not going to start for us anymore. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, it is absurd that he plays professional football. He’s a professional tackler, not a professional footballer.
Other than him, probably McSauce. Bruno will also have to tidy his game up a lot, but I think he will and be a better player for it.
Winners:
Sancho, VdB, Fred.
AWB is not going to start for us anymore. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, it is absurd that he plays professional football. He’s a professional tackler, not a professional footballer.
Other than him, probably McSauce. Bruno will also have to tidy his game up a lot, but I think he will and be a better player for it.
Winners:
Sancho, VdB, Fred.
Good opportunity for some of our academy players like Hannibal I think.
I was going to ask about Rangnick and younger players especially as regards to Hannibal.
Wonder will he give him a chance of a few games?
Impossible to say who will and won’t thrive under new management.
How on earth is Ragnick going to do anything remotely resembling Gegenpress with CR7 up top. Will be interesting to find out
Dark horse benefeciary: Jesse Lingard
Dark horse benefeciary: Jesse Lingard
Winners: Donny, Bruno, Sancho
Losers: Martial, McTominay, Pogba
Losers: Martial, McTominay, Pogba
Losers: Mike Phelan having to demonstrate pressing on the training ground
People here think of pressing as some individual quality. Players actually buy into pressing because of how it can benefit them as attacking players (goals and assists). It's a coordinated team effort resulting in favorable attacking positions. Some of us have been trying to tell you guys this, but this myth persists.
"All those 3 players, including Mo Salah, were when they came to Europe or Liverpool, were not natural born ball winners. None of them. They were not the kind of players where everyone went 'Wow, they are pressing machines!' All of the things that happened at Liverpool were the job of the coach and coaching staff."
"All those 3 players, including Mo Salah, were when they came to Europe or Liverpool, were not natural born ball winners. None of them. They were not the kind of players where everyone went 'Wow, they are pressing machines!' All of the things that happened at Liverpool were the job of the coach and coaching staff."
Are we keeping Mike Phelan / Carrick / McKena and co ?
Unclear, but he’s bringing one of his guys I think which is absolutely huge.
There's been some good discussion about this making the rounds on Twitter and YT. The main point being that Ronaldo as it is, positions himself naturally in a way that cuts off immediate passing lanes from the GK. Doing so is a sensible way to support the press from his teammates. The reason something like this has been misconstrued as useless is because the pressing as a whole by the team in the past has been disorganized and chaotic due to garbage coaching.
With a competent coach and manager, you can definitely fit a slow, weary late 30s year old striker into the system. Thankfully Cristiano is only one of the most professional and fit athletes in his age group in the game. Better fitness than many players in a younger bracket as well. I think they'll find a way to flourish together, Ragnick and Ronaldo...
Came in here to write exactly this citing exact same quote
. Those who are willing to listen, learn and adapt will do fine.This. Sancho is brought up the German way. He will be way better.
Biggest loser will be Martial or Pogba depending on how he responds to it. I feel as if he won't whine and moan. But martial I haven't seen any fight in him
Not too familiar with Rangnick or his style but from what I read he favors technical discipline and hardworking players.
Think biggest winners will be Sancho, DVB, Ronaldo, Bruno and hopefully the fans
Losers will be Shaw, Martial, Pogba, AWB and all our opponents.
The rest could go either way.
Think biggest winners will be Sancho, DVB, Ronaldo, Bruno and hopefully the fans
Losers will be Shaw, Martial, Pogba, AWB and all our opponents.
The rest could go either way.
Love how he speaks about football!!! Actually insightful, and passionate.
Reminds me of Klopp in his insight and directness of speaking.
I’m very interested to see what this guy can bring to Man Utd…
Honestly, I think, all your players will benefit if they want to and professional players generally enjoy improving. I think the players that will benefit the most will be the ones that have suffered a bit through a lack of intense hands on coaching, so AWB for instance could benefit here.
I think the one who'll have the biggest difficulty maybe DDG as his game will need to change quite radically.
It's a shame James left he'd flourish under Rangnick.
I think the one who'll have the biggest difficulty maybe DDG as his game will need to change quite radically.
It's a shame James left he'd flourish under Rangnick.
Maguire with his magical heavy touch and slide
How is he doing with Leeds ,it's not much of a loss for him as he is playing under Bielsa .
I see Fred as a big winner in a team that likes to press. He’s got the stamina to match any player in the league. What let’s him down is his positioning and sometimes his first touch. If Rangnick is as good as posters here think, he should be able to iron over technical mistakes and turn Fred into something quite interesting.
The whole squad? The team was struggling as a whole under Ole and now there's a more competent manager in charge. Perhaps the new players who weren't playing that regularly could benefit the most on having a good manager for instance; I'm thinking in the likes of Van de Beek, Sancho and also players like Ronaldo and Cavani who would like to win something this very season, or at least challenge for something.
Leeds are massively struggling with injuries at the moment, Bamford is out for most of the season, which means James has had a brief spell playing as a lone striker and has done really well! He's been one of the bright spots in a really tough season.
Oh so now most of the posters think Fred will be a winner after saying he is a poor poor footballer ever since he came here. Interesting no one is saying he would lose given what a terrible footballer he is. Never change caf. Never change.
Exactly. I said it many times, teams are reflection of coaches (there will be few exceptions here and there), when our players didn't press that's because we were not trained to press. It's a team effort and whole team should be in sync to execute. It's not even just running around, it's about blocking the passing lanes and also marking the options for the player in possession.
Hard question to answer. Possibly players who make clumbsy mistakes like Pogba and Maguire. Martial looks like a lazy player but if he bought into a high press he would be much improved. Hopefully Ralf uses the full squad and everyone raises their game.
Based on his philosophy, I can see anyone above the age of 25 who doesn't fit the system being cashed out and replaced with someone on their 1st or 2nd professional contract.
I really hope we do not transform into Wenger's Arsenal. That is a bigger likelihood than success imo. Glazers' way.
I really hope we do not transform into Wenger's Arsenal. That is a bigger likelihood than success imo. Glazers' way.
I think Bruno x Rashford link up will be a huge win. Ragnick likes speed both in terms of raw pace and in terms of quickness of attack (need to be threatening opposition goal in 10 secs after ball won).
Sancho will do well, he grew up in that style of football.
Fred will love it as well.
I don't think Maguire's lack of pace is a problem. Ragnick specifically mentioned in several interviews that he doesn't need his CBs to be exceptionally quick.
Sancho will do well, he grew up in that style of football.
Fred will love it as well.
I don't think Maguire's lack of pace is a problem. Ragnick specifically mentioned in several interviews that he doesn't need his CBs to be exceptionally quick.
I’m hoping there are discussions with the next manager now we have a stability for season and Rolf can bring in who the new needs, I.e a defensive midfielder