Who decided to sign Van De Beek?

jamesjimmybyrondean

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If he was Ole signing them the manager would insist on him. That's what managers do with the most expensive signing of the season. Ole can't even be bothered to make it work. Hence why I believe it's not his signing
Insist on using him how? We use him as an AM so how do we insist on using him? We start him ahead of Bruno our best player? Or we need a goal and we sub Bruno off for him? He's an inferior player to our best player who hardly gets injured, playing for a team where almost all the matches are must wins. He's not going to play much.

I think Grealish was Ole's first choice but his price was too high so we went for VdB. What other AM was available that you think would have been Ole's second choice? We were linked with VdB long before the window opened. Asides Grealish and VdB what other AMs where we linked with for people to say that's who Ole wanted
 

Lennon7

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I think he was signed with the view of being a Bruno back up. Many thought Pogba was on his way out or didn’t care enough, but he’s had his best season for us. Oh and Bruno didn’t need a back up because he’s an absolute machine, so there’s that

He’s just so anonymous and low in confidence. Compare him to his games at Ajax and he’s a shell of the player he was. Hopefully he can improve here, if not I still reckon he’d be a good player elsewhere. He’s definitely surplus to requirements in this current squad though.
 

devilish

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Yes. If a manager accepts a player this season then it means transfers in that position are off for next season. So if you buy Fred this season, you can't buy, say: Ndidi, next transfer window because the wages, for one, won't be available.
What makes you think that the manager will get his target next year? What makes you think the manager will still be here unless the squad is somehow reinforced?
 

devilish

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Insist on using him how? We use him as an AM so how do we insist on using him? We start him ahead of Bruno our best player? Or we need a goal and we sub Bruno off for him? He's an inferior player to our best player who hardly gets injured, playing for a team where almost all the matches are must wins. He's not going to play much.

I think Grealish was Ole's first choice but his price was too high so we went for VdB. What other AM was available that you think would have been Ole's second choice? We were linked with VdB long before the window opened. Asides Grealish and VdB what other AMs where we linked with for people to say that's who Ole wanted
VdB can play b2b quite comfortably. We refuse to play him there. Surely ole would know about this unless....
 

pocco

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My theory on this around October last year:
Would fly against everything Ole said about only signing the right players etc. Ole was apparently heavily involved in convincing him to come, so he is obviously an Ole signing. Like I said recently though, Ole doesn't have the cojones to go without Bruno, no matter the opposition or importance of a match.
 

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We’ve actually never had much luck with players like him. Mata, Kagawa, those kind of cute number 10s who worked so well in other teams systems and look out of place at United. That’s why I was so pleasantly surprised when Bruno worked out.
 

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I'm sure the manager wanted him insofar as he okayed the signing.

However, I'm thinking back to LVG's complaints that we often ended up signing his fourth or fifth choice for given positions.

At the moment my thought would be that this was the case here. Solskjaer wanted him in that he was on the list of potential targets and he eventually okayed the signing, but he may have made that call knowing he had missed out on players he preferred and VDB was increasingly the most viable option. Okaying a signing doesn't mean you're overly enamoured with it.
Spot on, obviously Ole gave a green light to sign him, but i dont think for a second that he was his first choice.

Either way he was poorly scouted, because even "time to settle in a new league" aside, he simply does not offer anything we need and is seemingly a very poor fit for our style
 

Mark Pawelek

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What makes you think that the manager will get his target next year? What makes you think the manager will still be here unless the squad is somehow reinforced?
I never said that. I said accepting in lesser player this window guarantees the option is shut next window.
 

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The drop off to Pereira/Lingard was a big problem last year.

We either misjudged what kind of player vdb is or tried to kill 2 birds with one stone by getting backup for multiple positions.

Then performances by Matic, Martial and others made the signing seem even more bizarre with hindsight.

And vdb himself must take some blame.
 

Lash

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I agree.

He's still relatively young in that he only turned 24.

Plenty of players needed a season to bed in and get up to speed when coming to a new country and a stronger league.

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.
I think we have glaring midfield deficiencies, he's an easy target, but I'm pretty sure most signings get more than one season to prove themselves.
 

InspiRED

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We’ve actually never had much luck with players like him. Mata, Kagawa, those kind of cute number 10s who worked so well in other teams systems and look out of place at United. That’s why I was so pleasantly surprised when Bruno worked out.
I think if SAF had stayed Kagawa would have lit up the league. Of course we’ll never know, but Moyes was the absolute worst manager for a player like kagawa to the point SAF should have to pay compensation money to Shinii for leaving the club in such a manner!
 

Mark Pawelek

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We’ve actually never had much luck with players like him. Mata, Kagawa, those kind of cute number 10s who worked so well in other teams systems and look out of place at United. That’s why I was so pleasantly surprised when Bruno worked out.
Why did Bruno work out? Because he was given his head - allowed to play as many risky passes as he wanted to. Also because we have 2 CDMs. But, unfortunately, they aren't natural CDMs. United should've got a proper CDM, or 2, last summer instead of De Beek.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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Sometimes signings don't workout , or need time to adapt to a new league, it happens, what we cannot say is Ole was forced to accept VdB, Ole has influence on the owners and no player can be bought without his full consent, very reliable reports mention that Ole personally called VdB to convince him to join.

we can discuss why VdB was signed or why he isn't doing well, but it's untrue that VdB isn't an Ole signing
 

AltiUn

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Great question. Needs answering.

Probably Ole. At United the boss gives the go ahead. Appalling signing tbh
There's not a chance Solskjaer's the one who decided to sign van de Beek. He's barely given him a look-in all season.
 

Lennon7

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We’ve actually never had much luck with players like him. Mata, Kagawa, those kind of cute number 10s who worked so well in other teams systems and look out of place at United. That’s why I was so pleasantly surprised when Bruno worked out.
I’d say Mata has been a success here - but I do know what you mean. He’s been shoe horned in to many different formations and positions and he’s done okay given that.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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VdB can play b2b quite comfortably. We refuse to play him there. Surely ole would know about this unless....
We are prioritising defensive solidity at the double pivot. Even Pogba hardly plays there . Before he came here would you say he's an upgrade on Bruno? Would he give us defensive solidity that we want now from the double pivot? The answer is no. If it was yes then It makes absolutely no sense to leave him on the bench when he'd upgrade us on the pitch. Also, Ole isn't the best at rotating and VdB hasn't exactly been good when he's played.
 

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Something tells me this thread will not age well.
I hope so! I'd love this thread to look so silly this time next year. Can't see that happening as things stand. VDB just looks totally out of place. Keep seeing people saying play him here play him there. No matter where he's played this season he's looked awkward.

I understood the signing, I think it made some sense, but the player just hasn't worked out at all thus far.
 

Andycoleno9

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We really need to stop giving guilt/slack to managers about signings how it suits personal agenda. Same was with Lvg, Jose and now Ole.
Every player is manager's signing. Period. Only thing which is for debate is was a player A, B or C option. But manager has last word in this club.
Ole said yes for VDB and James. Same as he said yes for Harry and Bruno. When we signed Cavani, some of here labelled him as Ed's signing and how Ed betrayed Ole. Few days ago, Cavani said that last year Ole convinced him to come here.

So stop with that. In Man Utd, manager decides about buying and selling ALL players. This is not Italy or Germany where manager is just a coach who works with what he gets from CEO/dof/ owner.

And btw, VDB will be good signing. Ole just need to start playing him on right position and give up from McFred midfield
 

sparx99

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He’s been shite, no denying that, but the player fundamentally is just one who doesn’t fit. He’s playing exactly how he did at Ajax. He was a midfielder who was at his best without the ball, relying on better players (De Jong; Ziyech) to do the creative lifting for him. He’s not one who can pass; can screen a defence; or will tackle and intercept like crazy.

It would be like being angry at Fernandes for not being able to play slow possession play; or that Rashford can’t play as a no.9 target man.

He should be moved on, and fault lay at his desk as his general performances have been underwhelming, but the biggest fault lay with the scouting team and whoever approved this signing.
This is the thing; he’d be much better playing in front of Bruno who could find his runs. Instead we have Van de Beek either playing behind him or to the side.

His off the ball movement is actually very good but we don’t really seem to have anyone finding him. It doesn’t help that he rarely plays with the first team. Everyone else benefits from playing with Bruno while Van De Beek is often playing without Bruno.

If we’re to sign a Rice or Ndidi how would a midfield trio work? Could Bruno play a bit deeper to the right and then Pogba/Van de Beek to the left. Similar to the Fernandinho, De Bruyne and Silva trio? I think Van de Beek would do better in that system versus playing in a double pivot or in 5 mins cameos.
 

tomaldinho1

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If you believe the official line then you also believe that the Glazers are passionate about this club
Firstly, they clearly are. Just not in the way we as fans would want.
Secondly, it’s not the official line - it’s just how we operate now. We know it’s real and we know Ole sings off on all players. There’s be no benefit to fabricating this whatsoever.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I believe so. Both did pretty much what managers do when saddled with players they didn't want. They barely ever played them. Also they barely knew the positions these players play. Mou thought he needed a better defence to play Fred (whose defensive minded). Ole thinks that VDB is a no 10 when in reality he can play b2b very well

That's the typical feck off message managers use in such circumstances

Mou wanted slap head and he got Fred, Ole wanted Graelish and he got VDB, Moyes wanted Fabregas and he ended with Fellaini
Nah, managers often don't their first choice. It didn't mean players are thrust upon them against their will. It's just too convenient to take this away from Ole. At Chelsea that's known to happen. But at United the manager has a list and then gets the players we can get from it. If Maguire is Oles man, so is VDB. So is Amad. He will get his man this year in Sancho. Hopefully you'll be crediting Woodard or whoever with that master stroke.
 

Andycoleno9

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We all know Frank didn't want the Germans
I am talking about United. I will not go in other clubs business.
But when you mention Frank; i think that he could have said no. Of course, maybe it was Germans or nothing so he said "ok, give me Germans then".
 

AshRK

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It is very much clear VDB was never Ole's first or even 2nd choice. He wanted Grealish and Sancho but considering Grealish signed a new contract, the board panicked and gave Ole VDB and Ole must have said why not. I still feel he will come good. Needs to play more for starters.
 

Abraxas

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I've been confused about exactly what the evidence for this being anything other than an "Ole signing" is? It is something that has been continually mooted but the reasons are completely unknown to me.

It doesn't make sense to say that because it has been unsuccessful to date or that it doesn't logically fit within your own current perspective of our squad that therefore it can't be a signing he approved. That is your opinion and you do not share in what Ole's view of the player was at the time. Similarly, game time is not a reliable way of judging this. You cannot keep shoehorning in a player that is a liability. It is good management to have the courage to drop an expensive signing that has been poor. If he is also shocking in training how can you play the guy and expect to retain the faith of other players? There are a whole host of reasons he has not been played that are far more simple than a conspiracy surrounding the signing.

Also, VDB being Ole's first, second or tenth choice is fairly irrelevant argument. All that tells us is he would have rather have had X, not that he didn't approve the signing.

What separates it from every other signing we have made except that the result to date has been the least successful? Is every poor signing going to be a non-Ole signing and every good signing an Ole signing? The outcome isn't a good way of drawing inferences as to the wider circumstances.

I believe our setup is well known and Murtagh recently made reference to it. We have a wider recruitment team but the manager has to want the player. I don't see any good reason to think we deviated from that just because VDB has been unbelievably poor.
 
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Andycoleno9

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Nah, managers often don't their first choice. It didn't mean players are thrust upon them against their will. It's just too convenient to take this away from Ole. At Chelsea that's known to happen. But at United the manager has a list and then gets the players we can get from it. If Maguire is Oles man, so is VDB. So is Amad. He will get his man this year in Sancho. Hopefully you'll be crediting Woodard or whoever with that master stroke.
Exactly. Pundits (our ex players) and fans last few years act in a way that manager is not backed if he doesn't get all players from A list.
 

united_99

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VDS?

Would be amazing if he comes good next season. I can’t see it now but he would need a run of games and in those not surrounded by Elanga, Bailly, Williams, James & Co. in order to gain form and confidence. But can’t see this happening especially with Bruno and Pogba in the team.
 

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I thought he might be the player we wanted as Pogba's replacement so when he was being looked at by other clubs we got him even if Pogba wasnt going till this summer. A bit like in the past with Nani and Anderson we wanted to sign them a bit later but acted to make sure we didnt lose them.

But if that was the case DVB would have played when Pogba doesn't. Instead we play Fred and McTominay together. So if Ole wanted him at all its been really weird how little we've used him
 

Andycoleno9

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It is very much clear VDB was never Ole's first or even 2nd choice. He wanted Grealish and Sancho but considering Grealish signed a new contract, the board panicked and gave Ole VDB and Ole must have said why not. I still feel he will come good. Needs to play more for starters.
I agree that Jack and Sancho (plus maybe Upamecano) were his A list. But it is 300 mil list. How somebody can blame club/Ed for not doing that ? Especially in this covid era.
We did everything to sign Sancho. And Ed was right to call it off. Grealish fee was also ridiculous.
 

united_99

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All this “Who‘s signing it is“ is always difficult to answer.
In this case I could imagine Grealish and Sancho didn’t work out and VdB was relatively cheap and we hadn’t signed anyone until then. If the choice was then VdB or no one Ole may have preferred VdB especially taking into account how we had to run everyone into the ground last season to seal top 4 on the very last day.
 

Andycoleno9

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Jose said once that we work in a way that he gives his A, B, C lists to Ed and then Ed does his "magic". I think Ole spoke about it too
 

Bondi77

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This is a funny thread because when VDB was linked with our club it was in competition with Grealish and there were so many clowns on this site that thought With the European experience and versatility that they thought VDB had that he was a better option for the club than Grealish and at that time they were in a fairly similar price range.
These clowns have gone quiet now and do not be surprised if there is a similar reaction if Sancho does come to our club and does not perform as expected.
I hope if Sancho comes he does pull up trees at our club but I find it so annoying when certain posters talk it up big style before the event and are nowhere to be seen if things do not work out.
 

Rozay

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Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, who else would? You guys have been told over and over how our recruitment works, het these conspiracy theories still persist.
 

Zen86

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He’s a odd one, strikes me as an opportunistic signing more than anything. There probably wasn’t much of a long term strategy factored into us getting him. It’s very hard to see him ever being a success here.
 

AshRK

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I agree that Jack and Sancho (plus maybe Upamecano) were his A list. But it is 300 mil list. How somebody can blame club/Ed for not doing that ? Especially in this covid era.
We did everything to sign Sancho. And Ed was right to call it off. Grealish fee was also ridiculous.
We were heavily linked with Grealish in march april to the point during our match against Villa in July, Ole was openly in love with him. This was well before he signed his new contract and would have cost somewhat similar to what Van de beek cost. Sancho I agree was too expensive but the fact that we got two young players in amad and pellestri as the back up was strange.

The point is had the board been a bit more ruthless in their approach they could have got Grealish but they went for VDB.
 

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I'm sure the manager wanted him insofar as he okayed the signing.

However, I'm thinking back to LVG's complaints that we often ended up signing his fourth or fifth choice for given positions.

At the moment my thought would be that this was the case here. Solskjaer wanted him in that he was on the list of potential targets and he eventually okayed the signing, but he may have made that call knowing he had missed out on players he preferred and VDB was increasingly the most viable option. Okaying a signing doesn't mean you're overly enamoured with it.
Exactly. It's almost certain that Ole wanted Grealish as his #1 choice for that role (and don't we all wish he'd got him now). What we don't know is whether VDB was #2 once Grealish was priced out of a move, or whether there were a couple of other players that he wanted and VDB was #4 or 5.

VDB's lack of gametime isn't because Ole didn't want him, it's because he's hasn't done enough in training (presumably) and in games (definitely) to warrant more.
 

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I am talking about United. I will not go in other clubs business.
But when you mention Frank; i think that he could have said no. Of course, maybe it was Germans or nothing so he said "ok, give me Germans then".
I'm joking as that was one of Harry Redknapp's defences of Lampard after he was sacked.

'Did he want the Germans in?'

Tuchel seems to be doing ok with the same squad.