Yes because that's going well
Who decided to sign Van De Beek?
- Thread starter Josep Dowling
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Villa let it be known, before he signed the contract, that they would only sell for 80m. Them staying in the PL is what fecked us over, if they had been relegated (which they arguably would have been if not for the huge VAR mistake not seeing the ball a foot over the goal line) we then would have almost certainly signed him for about the same as what VDB cost. But once they stayed up they had the power to demand huge money. Personally I still preferred we spend it on him rather than getting VDB, but the club decided otherwise. In this particular situation that has turned out to be a mistake (as long as Grealish gets over these shin splint injuries) but I'm sure there are other times it was the right call.
Also because he is stronger physically and mentally than the likes of Kagawa, Mata and Van de Beek. From the very first moment, he was never letting the game pass him by.
He wouldn't have said no but if Ole was strongly for him I think he would have played a lot more. I expect he was signed with Pogba leaving in mind though.
I don't know what they thought they were getting or where Van de Beek himself thought he would play. Very odd.
I don't know what they thought they were getting or where Van de Beek himself thought he would play. Very odd.
So on one hand we have people clamouring for strength in depth, yet on the other hand these same people are wanting to get rid of Van De Beek because he isn't starting games.
He's a squad player and a very good one at that. Some players need time to integrate themselves into a team, look at Fred.
He's a squad player and a very good one at that. Some players need time to integrate themselves into a team, look at Fred.
I've always been ridiculed for suggesting this before, but I'll say it again: people are far too deeply invested in fighting wars on behalf of or against managers (LvG, Jose and Ole alike), Woodward, the Glazers or (a late entry into the field) Murtogh, and so keen to attribute successful and unsuccessful signings to whichever of those they love or hate (a point well made by @amolbhatia50k up-thread), that they fail to recognise the influence of players' agents and clubs desperate to offload players. Football clubs are just like any other business in that people make a living by selling stuff to them. Cold calls, junk mail, junk email, whatever.
Ajax needed some cash to fund its Covid deficit. Went through its squad for a player it could do without but still get a decent sum for. Donny ticked both boxes. Edwin uses his connection with United, as well as his reputation for being a Good Trustworthy Chap, to persuade Ed that Donny would be a good addition to the United squad (technically skilled, wanted by Real Madrid, United's good success rate with Dutch players). Ed sells the idea to his employees. Ole probably not fully convinced but realises the alternative is likely to be no signing at all. Job's a good 'un for Ajax.
Ajax needed some cash to fund its Covid deficit. Went through its squad for a player it could do without but still get a decent sum for. Donny ticked both boxes. Edwin uses his connection with United, as well as his reputation for being a Good Trustworthy Chap, to persuade Ed that Donny would be a good addition to the United squad (technically skilled, wanted by Real Madrid, United's good success rate with Dutch players). Ed sells the idea to his employees. Ole probably not fully convinced but realises the alternative is likely to be no signing at all. Job's a good 'un for Ajax.
Not going to argue there but that's obviously why we are using McFred
I think we could pushed villa had we say offer 55 odd million. The issue was board thought sancho was a big possibility and hence went for VDB but the fact that we wasted the whole summer chasing sancho was idiotic. We could have used the window better. We could have even got cavani much earlier than wait till October. A fit cavani at the start of the season could have helped us against palace or even spurs. I feel last year's window was a poorly planned one where we didn't fix anything to improve our starting 11. Maybe in long term the likes of amad and pellestri turn out to be amazing but short term bar cavani it was a disaster of a window.
The idea Pogba could've left with VDB replacing him is terrifying
Hope we sell him as he's gash.
I don't buy into the whole he needs a year to adjust bollocks either, good players deliver from the get go.
I don't buy into the whole he needs a year to adjust bollocks either, good players deliver from the get go.
Last edited:
I'm going to try and get a different opinion across to you guys. It's a similar problem facing Telles and VdB, that the players ahead of them are fabulous, consist and reliable for the starting team. And it's been a very hectic season with little time for training sessions for new ideas, OGS said something along these lines himself. Sooo it's a bit of a combination of things which have led to the current situation of vdb being a poor fit for the team.
55m wouldn't have been close to enough for Grealish. Maybe we could have got him for a bit less than what they were saying, but I doubt they would have even thought about anything less than 68m or so. Realistically I wouldn't be surprised if they'd held out for the entire 80m.
As for Cavani, it was widely reported that his wage demands were originally significantly higher, and he only dropped them right at the end of the window when nobody was interested. Sure we could have accepted those bigger wages to have him early, but we potentially could have had another Sanchez situation where the top earner is a past-it older player who doesn't deserve them. And honestly, it's only been the last 1-2 months of the season that he's really been good.
According to the Athletic and Donny, Ole convinced Donny to come, he's an Ole signing.
"In an ‘inside story’ of how the Red Devils won the race for Van de Beek’s signature, The Athletic’s Adam Crafton revealed this morning that the key figure in the deal was manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
‘Before committing to the transfer, [Van de Beek] insisted upon holding talks with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer,’ Crafton explains.
‘Those familiar with the deal say that Van de Beek came off the phone immediately convinced by the Norwegian’s pitch.
‘Van de Beek was excited to hear how Solskjaer would fit him into United’s midfield alongside Paul Pogba and Bruno Fernandes.
‘Solskjaer’s response was said to be authoritative.’
The reporter confirms that although other clubs were also in the race to sign the midfielder, Solskjaer’s intervention had convinced him that his future lay with United.
‘Reports over the weekend indicated serious interest from Tottenham and Barcelona in Van de Beek. Members of Barcelona manager Ronald Koeman’s backroom staff are believed to have a strong relationship with the player.
‘It is true the two clubs were kept abreast but it is also the case that after speaking to Solskjaer, Van de Beek’s representatives made clear that the player’s future would lie at Old Trafford.
‘Throughout the whole process, including Real Madrid, Solskjaer is the only manager outside of Ajax who has spoken to Van de Beek about a transfer.’
£35 million spent and it seems a waste for both parties.
I've said it before a few times but Donny did play well initially, slotted in very well, his best game was probably against 5-0 win over Leipzig at home in which he started, he was fantastic but since then Ole stopped using him and didn't bother in the away leg where we went 2-0 down in the opening minutes while playing a back 3 with Fred banned, they rinsed AWB, something they tried to do at OT but failed. Donny was so good across the middle in protecting and beating the press and leading by example with quick one touch passing, he played like he did for Ajax in the CL. That sharp on it Donny is long gone now so I can't propose he should play but i think ole is to blame for not seeing how good he was and sticking to his trusted lineup. Anyone who comes in are woeful now and our top players are feeling the burn like Rashford again. After the CL exit we did go on a excellent run so Ole has stuck with that.
"In an ‘inside story’ of how the Red Devils won the race for Van de Beek’s signature, The Athletic’s Adam Crafton revealed this morning that the key figure in the deal was manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
‘Before committing to the transfer, [Van de Beek] insisted upon holding talks with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer,’ Crafton explains.
‘Those familiar with the deal say that Van de Beek came off the phone immediately convinced by the Norwegian’s pitch.
‘Van de Beek was excited to hear how Solskjaer would fit him into United’s midfield alongside Paul Pogba and Bruno Fernandes.
‘Solskjaer’s response was said to be authoritative.’
The reporter confirms that although other clubs were also in the race to sign the midfielder, Solskjaer’s intervention had convinced him that his future lay with United.
‘Reports over the weekend indicated serious interest from Tottenham and Barcelona in Van de Beek. Members of Barcelona manager Ronald Koeman’s backroom staff are believed to have a strong relationship with the player.
‘It is true the two clubs were kept abreast but it is also the case that after speaking to Solskjaer, Van de Beek’s representatives made clear that the player’s future would lie at Old Trafford.
‘Throughout the whole process, including Real Madrid, Solskjaer is the only manager outside of Ajax who has spoken to Van de Beek about a transfer.’
£35 million spent and it seems a waste for both parties.
I've said it before a few times but Donny did play well initially, slotted in very well, his best game was probably against 5-0 win over Leipzig at home in which he started, he was fantastic but since then Ole stopped using him and didn't bother in the away leg where we went 2-0 down in the opening minutes while playing a back 3 with Fred banned, they rinsed AWB, something they tried to do at OT but failed. Donny was so good across the middle in protecting and beating the press and leading by example with quick one touch passing, he played like he did for Ajax in the CL. That sharp on it Donny is long gone now so I can't propose he should play but i think ole is to blame for not seeing how good he was and sticking to his trusted lineup. Anyone who comes in are woeful now and our top players are feeling the burn like Rashford again. After the CL exit we did go on a excellent run so Ole has stuck with that.
Last edited:
Good players can take their time but he's been behind that - unbelievably bad. People laugh at Werner for example but at least he's a threat. VDB is like a little lost 12 year old.
Perhaps moving to a new country as been difficult for him?
Perhaps the pandemic causing him to be very isolated in the new country had affected his mental health?
Many players coming to England are need a year to bed in.
He's not had a run of games to find form.
Yes it might not work out. But to say he's 'gash' were he's proved earlier in his career that he's not is stupid.
Lets see how he does next year.
Someone from the transfer committee probably sold him to Ole as this cheap better option than Grealish and he said why not. The problem now Ole has a player that only shines when his team is camped in the opposition's defensive 3rd. For him to work, either Ole or the player need to change their game drastically.
Last edited:
I would be wary of writing him off after one season.
Joel Glazer.....Hey wait,maybe it was Ole after all....
He's so cowardly in his play too, balls like a hot potato to him.
I'd agree.
Looked a totally different player ar Ajax. Maybe he misses the relationship he had with De Jong.
But when you look at how many times he's played - he's made 34 appearances but only played about 1300 minutes. He's not really had much of a chance to really get a good run of games to get up to speed and get his confidence up. A few minutes at the end of games leaves no time to get into the game and really show the qualities we've seen before.
It could be he doesn't show enough in training or Ole just doesn't like him. It's a funny one because when he was at Ajax he looked far superior technically and intelligently in midfield than McFred.
Perhaps he's not that good as many thought when we signed him?
I mean at the end of the summer window, according to everyone VDB was the Ole signing and Cavani was one of those Woodward signings 
So I'll stick with that for consistencies sake
So I'll stick with that for consistencies sake
We just want to have a reliable backup for Bruno, Lingard was really bad back then, and Bruno was burned out having started so many games without any rest. VDB was good player for Ajax, so we just go ahead. No one could foresee he is so useless for us.
Problem is he neither looks good athletically nor does he look good technically. Tidy is the best people can come up with for him
It wasn’t me.
Ole played Lingard and Pereira in the "Bruno" role until we signed a Bruno for that role, even though none of them excelled in that role. I'm not sure what he's tried with VdB.. doesn't seem to be much of a plan with him. Signing him I expected Pogba to stay Pogba and also leave before soon, him to be use in a two behind Bruno, also able to give Bruno a rest when needed. None of that has happened
He needs to show some aggression and fight...he is cruising through games without having any impact whatsoever.
Looks like he is not up to the challenge of playing for the club which is disappointing.
Looks like he is not up to the challenge of playing for the club which is disappointing.
I think we were looking for a bruno pogba backup and he was for sale at a good price and there was a Van der sar connection.
He's been poor but i think a full pre season will help. He has undoubted quality but just seems to be out of form, off the pace and low on confidence to apply it whenever he plays.
Think he will come good and we will start to get a tune out of him personally.
He's been poor but i think a full pre season will help. He has undoubted quality but just seems to be out of form, off the pace and low on confidence to apply it whenever he plays.
Think he will come good and we will start to get a tune out of him personally.
If the Athletic's quotes are true then the transfer is on Ole. Agree with the rest of the post as well.
I think VDB was offered up as an alternative to Grealish to Ole with the thought the club would firm up the signing of Sancho. Obviously the club failed on all levels. With that said, give VDB a full preseason and a chance in his 2nd year. If he still fails to deliver and/or Ole fails to utilize him then we’ll definitely know whether this move was a failure.
Not surprised by that. At United the manager gives the yes. Ole has to take the hit for this one. I just hope he's quick in realising his mistake unless he's seeing something great in training
Seems like you're just making things up. Dan James was an Ole signing and he's barely featured all season.
Its clear we wanted a backup to bruno but also an alternative to Pogba with all the uncertainty surrounding him. If the squad was left as is, an injury to Bruno meamt we were back to playing Lingard. VDB was meant to be a rotational piece in the team a bit like how Greenwood and Cavani have been this season. Its pointless however because Ole seems like he wouldn't trust this side to hold a 7-0 lead without Bruno, plays him every game without fail.
VDB's signing was poor planning and scouting from the recruitment team including Ole. It was clear from his first game here that he was playing a completely different brand of football to the whole team.
I think he's not played as much as everyone thought but when he has he's been very poor.
Why we signed him? Well Pogba might of left plus no one knew if Bruno was going to continue his form or not plus always better than not signing anyone.
His future? Well next season will be telling as alot of players need time to settle, so give him the benefit of the doubt, I assume Mata and Matic won't be around so he might get more game time.
I personally would give him to Jan and if he's no good I'd trade him in.
Why we signed him? Well Pogba might of left plus no one knew if Bruno was going to continue his form or not plus always better than not signing anyone.
His future? Well next season will be telling as alot of players need time to settle, so give him the benefit of the doubt, I assume Mata and Matic won't be around so he might get more game time.
I personally would give him to Jan and if he's no good I'd trade him in.
Seconded. Ole himself mentioned several times that he decides who is brought in or let go.
I remember people were saying Cavani was a Woodward panic signing when we first got him, haven’t heard that in a while. I don’t think as soon as a signing doesn’t work out can start making up Ole did t want him.
We finished last season playing one holding midfielder and tried starting this season like that as well. I assume that was plan A and makes sense why we brought in a player like DVB as we only had two players for two spots as opposed to three for one spot in the holding role.
As soon as we switched to double pivot DVB was pretty redundant and we actually should have signed a more defensive player.
We finished last season playing one holding midfielder and tried starting this season like that as well. I assume that was plan A and makes sense why we brought in a player like DVB as we only had two players for two spots as opposed to three for one spot in the holding role.
As soon as we switched to double pivot DVB was pretty redundant and we actually should have signed a more defensive player.
I think we signed him as a replacement for Pogba but now it looks a little more likely Pogba will stay and thus we don't actually need him anymore. I don't think we had any intention on bidding on him last Summer except a club (can't remember who) forced our hand. It's not the end of the world if we decide to part ways with him this Summer but we don't tend to be that ruthless.
It's the usual rush to judgement you see all the time though. Many said Rashford wasn't good enough and would never make 20 goals a season a few years ago.
Basically the same situation as what happened with Herrera and LVG, and Fred and Mourinho.
Club scouts like a player, a deal can be done. The manager is asked if he approves.
Club scouts like a player, a deal can be done. The manager is asked if he approves.
Has there been a United player who failed like VDB in his 1st season and turn out to be great at the end?
Fred became useful but nothing special and there are still many questions marks about him.
I don't know mate.
I was going to say Evra and Vidic but I'm not sure they were all that bad... Bit shakey to start certainly.
All I'm saying is that it's been a weird year anyway and certainly a tough one to move to another country to play for a team with a totally different style to the one you've been brought up in a stronger league.
By all accounts the team haven't really been able to much proper training as they are playing every 3 days.
Next season with a proper pre-season, no lockdown, crowds back matches etc we may see a different player.