Who decided to sign Van De Beek?

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Perhaps he's not that good as many thought when we signed him?

To you Van de Beek is either good or bad, you don't understand nuance or that external factors will influence how a footballer performs.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Good signing. You geniuses are confusing hindsight with making a decision with info you have at the time. Basic mistake

 

[r3idy]

Never understood this but I'll try again. Based on what exactly.. is he a technically "very very" good player?

1. Does he have a good shot on him? No
2. Is he two footed? No
3. Can he ping balls and play long balls to our wingers or centrally? No
4. Can he dictate the tempo of the game? No
5. Can he create killer through balls? No
6. Does he have a great touch? No
7. Can he dribble with the ball, does he have close control? No
8. Can he beat a man with skills or pace in order to create space? No
9. Can he attack the space like Anderson? No

I'm sorry, he's not technically very very good at all. He's technically poor.

Some of those points you raised are factually incorrect but hey never mind, watch some of his game time at Ajax or better yet, get some coaching under your belt to understand what technical ability is.

Other point 9, can't agree to any of that.

 

[snk123]

based on his technique you clown. watch some videos on him

Great stuff - so apparently first touch, shooting, heading, dribbling are not part of "technique". Got it!

 

[snk123]

Some of those points you raised are factually incorrect but hey never mind, watch some of his game time at Ajax or better yet, get some coaching under your belt to understand what technical ability is.

Other point 9, can't agree to any of that.

I have played football at a good enough level to understand what technique is - Thank you. The points I mentioned, he's not shown any of those based on his time at Utd and I've watched him very closely. His short passing is also poor which he's supposed to be a master at - you know the good old "pass and move" and one touch football. He's not shown any technical ability at his time here - and I'm sure many will agree with me.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Good signing. You geniuses are confusing hindsight with making a decision with info you have at the time. Basic mistake

Yup.

Back then most people in football thought it was a good deal for a very handy player, those people will have included Ole, Phelan and the transfer board, none of which vetoed the move.

Just because it hasn’t worked out in hindsight, a la Poborski or Klebersen, doesn’t suddenly mean it was any different to any other signing.

 

[Longshanks]

I have played football at a good enough level to understand what technique is - Thank you. The points I mentioned, he's not shown any of those based on his time at Utd and I've watched him very closely. His short passing is also poor which he's supposed to be a master at - you know the good old "pass and move" and one touch football. He's not shown any technical ability at his time here - and I'm sure many will agree with me.

If anything his technique is his biggest asset. I would say his issues have been adjusting to the pace and physicality of the PL and adjusting to playing for man utd. It takes time sometimes, and as the season has progressed he has seen less gametime and been thrust in often with some of the second string after not playing for a good while.

He was also unfortunate that when we lost pogba and mctom he himself also got injured when it was his best chance to get a run of games.

He kind of reminds me of Scholes a little bit, small, not quick or strong but good first touch and eye for a pass he just hasn't worked out how to impose himself in games for us yet.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

You have a rather simplistic views on transfers. Club don't simply come knocking at the club's door with a bag of money and "say here, 40m and give me ABC." Negotiations take time and with United things tend to drag down months. You only have to see how we dealt regarding the likes of Maguire and Lindelof. So in my opinion, United tried to negotiate with Aston Villa but were priced out. Then they used our connections with Ajax and told Ole that its either VDB or nothing.

I am not here to defend or criticise Ole/club. Both have their valid arguments and their faults in my opinion. My point is that we see a significant shift from last year and the year before something that is consistent with other administrations as well. Also I find it very hard to understand why United fans are portraying our transfer strategy as having any sense when we all know that we've been a mess on that for at least 7 years

I agree with bolded part, it's a well known fact that we don't conclude deals fast enough, and what you said about Ole being presented VdB as an easy deal to conclude might be true.

But my point is Ole still had the option to say no, look, I'm totally with you when you say our transfers/recruitments are shambles for the last 7/8 years, as we didn't have a proper football structure in place until recently, and the newly setup structure is still untested, and i agree the club's administration isn't consistent in their backing of Ole, but since Ole was appointed as a permanent manager, he is given a veto power, and although Ole wouldn't kick-up a fuss for not getting the players he wanted (at least not publicly), he still has a final say on who the club buys, that's all I'm saying, and it's not a stick to beat Ole with, as I think his recruitment is generally good.

 

[Gazza]

Because he is a good player, just because he hasn't been brilliant for us doesn't mean he isn't good!
He showed his quality at the highest level at Ajax.

But you said a very good squad player. Which to me means he can come into the team when we need him and be relied upon. Hasn’t done that for us, whether that’s due to lack of opportunities or whatever.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Ole, but i'm sure he had a gun to his head. Feels a bit like when Mourinho was given Fred after moaning about lack of transfer activity.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Remember these threads for lukaku? good times

 

[Legendary]

According to the Athletic and Donny, Ole convinced Donny to come, he's an Ole signing.

"In an ‘inside story’ of how the Red Devils won the race for Van de Beek’s signature, The Athletic’s Adam Crafton revealed this morning that the key figure in the deal was manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

‘Before committing to the transfer, [Van de Beek] insisted upon holding talks with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer,’ Crafton explains.

‘Those familiar with the deal say that Van de Beek came off the phone immediately convinced by the Norwegian’s pitch.

‘Van de Beek was excited to hear how Solskjaer would fit him into United’s midfield alongside Paul Pogba and Bruno Fernandes.

‘Solskjaer’s response was said to be authoritative.’

The reporter confirms that although other clubs were also in the race to sign the midfielder, Solskjaer’s intervention had convinced him that his future lay with United.

‘Reports over the weekend indicated serious interest from Tottenham and Barcelona in Van de Beek. Members of Barcelona manager Ronald Koeman’s backroom staff are believed to have a strong relationship with the player.

‘It is true the two clubs were kept abreast but it is also the case that after speaking to Solskjaer, Van de Beek’s representatives made clear that the player’s future would lie at Old Trafford.

‘Throughout the whole process, including Real Madrid, Solskjaer is the only manager outside of Ajax who has spoken to Van de Beek about a transfer.’

£35 million spent and it seems a waste for both parties.

I've said it before a few times but Donny did play well initially, slotted in very well, his best game was probably against 5-0 win over Leipzig at home in which he started, he was fantastic but since then Ole stopped using him and didn't bother in the away leg where we went 2-0 down in the opening minutes while playing a back 3 with Fred banned, they rinsed AWB, something they tried to do at OT but failed. Donny was so good across the middle in protecting and beating the press and leading by example with quick one touch passing, he played like he did for Ajax in the CL. That sharp on it Donny is long gone now so I can't propose he should play but i think ole is to blame for not seeing how good he was and sticking to his trusted lineup. Anyone who comes in are woeful now and our top players are feeling the burn like Rashford again. After the CL exit we did go on a excellent run so Ole has stuck with that.

Ole after signing Van de Beek”I really felt that we needed this type of player in our squad....Extremely versatile will definitely add goals from midfield....I actually followed his career right from when he made his debut against Molde....

Its quite clear that this was Oles signing...Maybe Ole thought he was good enough to play in a deeper role,but after watching him train every day he has come to the cinclusion that he’s not suited to play in midfield...

How are people just ignoring these quotes, you have it from VDB's mouth and Ole's, yet people still want to argue against it, and invent some conspiracy to add even more fuel to the fire against Ed and the owners. (They're terrible enough without blaming them for VDB's poor season)

Hindsight is 20/20, almost everybody here thought it was a great signing at the time, due to him doing very well at Ajax in multiple positions.

Sometimes things just don't work out, like Veron, but that doesn't mean Ole didn't want him.
He's obviously failed to impress in training.

It's a shame.

 

[Champ]

But you said a very good squad player. Which to me means he can come into the team when we need him and be relied upon. Hasn’t done that for us, whether that’s due to lack of opportunities or whatever.

What are you on about!!
He's a good player. We know that.
Just because he's only had a few good appearances for us so far doesn't mean he needs to be sold!
He needs to find himself in this team. He hasn't performed poorly, just not particularly great.

 

[Rozay]

¿Quién mato a Donny?

 

[Blueman]

It takes a year for most players to bed in.

 

[clarkydaz]

Great stuff - so apparently first touch, shooting, heading, dribbling are not part of "technique". Got it!

how old are you 14? Real Madrid wanted him, you think they go for players with no 'technique'

 

[The United]

If anything his technique is his biggest asset. I would say his issues have been adjusting to the pace and physicality of the PL and adjusting to playing for man utd. It takes time sometimes, and as the season has progressed he has seen less gametime and been thrust in often with some of the second string after not playing for a good while.

He was also unfortunate that when we lost pogba and mctom he himself also got injured when it was his best chance to get a run of games.

He kind of reminds me of Scholes a little bit, small, not quick or strong but good first touch and eye for a pass he just hasn't worked out how to impose himself in games for us yet.

Small and hair color. Except for them, VDB is nothing like Scholes.

 

[Gazza]

What are you on about!!
He's a good player. We know that.
Just because he's only had a few good appearances for us so far doesn't mean he needs to be sold!
He needs to find himself in this team. He hasn't performed poorly, just not particularly great.

He hasn’t proven himself as a good squad player for us. It’s a pretty simple point, dude.

 

[Giggs' right foot]

If anything his technique is his biggest asset. I would say his issues have been adjusting to the pace and physicality of the PL and adjusting to playing for man utd. It takes time sometimes, and as the season has progressed he has seen less gametime and been thrust in often with some of the second string after not playing for a good while.

He was also unfortunate that when we lost pogba and mctom he himself also got injured when it was his best chance to get a run of games.

He kind of reminds me of Scholes a little bit, small, not quick or strong but good first touch and eye for a pass he just hasn't worked out how to impose himself in games for us yet.

Scholes reacted about a fortnight quicker with and without the ball than VDB has done so far for us.

Scholes wasn’t fast, but he made up for it, by always analysing his surroundings, enabling him to move the ball immediately as he received it, since he had used the time without the ball, to confirm teammates/opponents positions. VDB - to me - looks clueless and most of the time surprised when he receives the ball. I hope he turns out all right, but so far he looks like our Davy Klaassen.

 

[Longshanks]

Small and hair color. Except for them, VDB is nothing like Scholes.

Both are best at no8 despite people obsessing with playing them in a no10/support striker role.
Both don't have great physical attributes but have the technique to play there way out of trouble in the middle of the park.
Scholes at a similar age to V.D.B would also go missing in games quite regularly its why keane/butt would often be preferred.

Scholes was more of a goal threat and more aggressive in the tackle and had a better range of passing, but Scholes at a similar age to V.D.B Deffo shares some similar attributes/traits.

Also Scholes was ginger and V.D.B is blond.

 

[The United]

Both are best at no8 despite people obsessing with playing them in a no10/support striker role.
Both don't have great physical attributes but have the technique to play there way out of trouble in the middle of the park.
Scholes at a similar age to V.D.B would also go missing in games quite regularly its why keane/butt would often be preferred.

Scholes was more of a goal threat and more aggressive in the tackle and had a better range of passing, but Scholes at a similar age to V.D.B Deffo shares some similar attributes/traits.

Also Scholes was ginger and V.D.B is blond.

Oh, so you are serious? Ok.

 

[Foxbatt]

whoever who signed him must be an idiot.

 

[Champ]

He hasn’t proven himself as a good squad player for us. It’s a pretty simple point, dude.

He hasn't had much of an opportunity to be fair.
His first few apps were really good, since then he hasn't had too much of an opportunity to shine. A couple of starts in a second string team.

I feel he's got more to give based on his performances with Ajax.

 

[r3idy]

I have played football at a good enough level to understand what technique is - Thank you. The points I mentioned, he's not shown any of those based on his time at Utd and I've watched him very closely. His short passing is also poor which he's supposed to be a master at - you know the good old "pass and move" and one touch football. He's not shown any technical ability at his time here - and I'm sure many will agree with me.

Same here, coached at a good level for ten years if we want to make it into a pissing contest.

As they say form is temporary. If you have technique, you really don't lose it by moving clubs but you know that right? If you are suggesting he has had a massive drop in form from his previous club, I would agree. Has he lost his technical ability? I seriously doubt it

DVB was clearly a very good player in a very good and highly technical team like Ajax and also coveted by Real Madrid. He may take more time to adjust to United than other players. Ajax have enjoyed a golden generation with DVB (United) Frenkie De Jong (Barca) Matthijs De Ligt (Juve), Hakim Ziyech (Chelsea), Quincy Promes (Spartak Moscow) All have had very ordinary careers away from Ajax since their move. It could be argues that De Jong has started to hit some form. Bottom line is, the lad has serious time on his side. If he makes it here then great, it will be a great addition, he is quality. If he doesn't step up, we wont lose too much money on him.

 

[Adnan]

How are people just ignoring these quotes, you have it from VDB's mouth and Ole's, yet people still want to argue against it, and invent some conspiracy to add even more fuel to the fire against Ed and the owners. (They're terrible enough without blaming them for VDB's poor season)

Hindsight is 20/20, almost everybody here thought it was a great signing at the time, due to him doing very well at Ajax in multiple positions.

Sometimes things just don't work out, like Veron, but that doesn't mean Ole didn't want him.
He's obviously failed to impress in training.

It's a shame.

They aren't ignoring them but rather they're wilfully ignorant.

We have to remember that we signed him at a time when there was much disruption (due to Covid) which greatly affected our pre-season. It's also been reported in the media that Solskjaer has said that we'll see the best of Donny next season because the disruption Covid has caused hasn't allowed him to work on different tactical plans due to the fixtures coming thick and fast. This doesn't mean Donny will prove himself next season and become a success. But we as a fan base need to show some patience because we sit in a good position league table wise and have a genuine chance of winning a trophy. Which would be a successful season in our current state.

We also have to realise that VdB has arrived from a club that plays a style of football that places heavy emphasis on structural play where the goal is not to move the ball, but rather to move the opposing players in the quest to win space. So the team he comes from battles for space in which VdB drops into that space. But every player is occupying a zone in transition which creates triangles and the Dutch favour the 3-4-3/4-3-3 for that reason due to how it connects everything both offensively and defensively.

Also someone made a post earlier stating how Liverpool and City have recruited players which saw them signing players that wouldn't have been the populist choice at the time . I agree with what the poster said. Our issue is we get too animated with the most obvious choice and end up spending vast amounts of money on singular targets which then will affect future transfers.

We have a good scouting network now but if the manager sets the direction and the direction is to bring in British players due to rebooting the culture at the club then you've sidelined nearly 50 scouts. So the emphasis then is on the scouts working within the divisions in Britain like Mark Anderson and Ronnie Cusick to name just two. If a player is signed from Spain then that falls under our lead scout in Spain, Gerardo Guzman who joined us a few years ago from Atletico Madrid and he would then report to Henny de Regt who is the head of European scouting. But as I said before, your scouts can only go the way the direction is set at the top. People also bring up Leicester and their scouting but the direction at that club has been to sign young players who are showing potential. If we had signed Fofana and he had a shaky start then he would've been sidelined for months and people would be saying we need to sign a experienced player because Fofana isn't ready. Leicester on the other hand provide a settled environment with far less pressure and scrutiny which results in the likes of Fofana getting a run in the team.

 

[snk123]

how old are you 14? Real Madrid wanted him, you think they go for players with no 'technique'

You’re the one resorting to petty insults so best not discuss age.

Also, you haven’t really given an argument to the points i raised. Not that i want an argument from you because you seem like a butthurt fanboy for whatever weird reason. Your best argument is Real Madrid wanted him - so again not going to go into how laughable that is.

I’ll make my opinion clear again - DVDB has demonstrated extremely average technical ability in his time at Utd. His first touch, passing, shooting, through balls, dribbling have all been average or below average.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

how old are you 14? Real Madrid wanted him, you think they go for players with no 'technique'

Didn’t Real sign Graveson?

 

[snk123]

If anything his technique is his biggest asset. I would say his issues have been adjusting to the pace and physicality of the PL and adjusting to playing for man utd. It takes time sometimes, and as the season has progressed he has seen less gametime and been thrust in often with some of the second string after not playing for a good while.

He was also unfortunate that when we lost pogba and mctom he himself also got injured when it was his best chance to get a run of games.

He kind of reminds me of Scholes a little bit, small, not quick or strong but good first touch and eye for a pass he just hasn't worked out how to impose himself in games for us yet.

I would love to agree with you but he has not shown any standout technical ability in his time here. Everyone who struggled at Utd showed glimpses of what they could do.

Donny hasn’t shown anything. I wouldn’t go into the Scholes comparison because that would be insulting to the great man.

 

[snk123]

Same here, coached at a good level for ten years if we want to make it into a pissing contest.

As they say form is temporary. If you have technique, you really don't lose it by moving clubs but you know that right? If you are suggesting he has had a massive drop in form from his previous club, I would agree. Has he lost his technical ability? I seriously doubt it

DVB was clearly a very good player in a very good and highly technical team like Ajax and also coveted by Real Madrid. He may take more time to adjust to United than other players. Ajax have enjoyed a golden generation with DVB (United) Frenkie De Jong (Barca) Matthijs De Ligt (Juve), Hakim Ziyech (Chelsea), Quincy Promes (Spartak Moscow) All have had very ordinary careers away from Ajax since their move. It could be argues that De Jong has started to hit some form. Bottom line is, the lad has serious time on his side. If he makes it here then great, it will be a great addition, he is quality. If he doesn't step up, we wont lose too much money on him.

I haven’t seen him at Ajax but I understand the system Ajax play - he is an intelligent player and can fit in that system where everyone is on the move and the players look for short passes to create space.

That surely doesn’t mean Donny has great technique. He is a good intelligent player who uses the ball well but technical attributes like shooting, control, dribbling, long passing, heading, crossing etc.

Have you seen any of these attributes from his time here?

 

[r3idy]

I haven’t seen him at Ajax but I understand the system Ajax play - he is an intelligent player and can fit in that system where everyone is on the move and the players look for short passes to create space.

That surely doesn’t mean Donny has great technique. He is a good intelligent player who uses the ball well but technical attributes like shooting, control, dribbling, long passing, heading, crossing etc.

Have you seen any of these attributes from his time here?

Because of course, Ajax just play one touch for shits n giggles and sit stroking their own dicks in mid table. You really don't survive and thrive, even at a club like Ajax without good technique you get found out early doors. Technique is your foundation as a player at a club like Ajax.

 

[snk123]

Because of course, Ajax just play one touch for shits n giggles and sit stroking their own dicks in mid table. You really don't survive and thrive, even at a club like Ajax without good technique you get found out early doors. Technique is your foundation as a player at a club like Ajax.

Another stupid generalisation. Let’s buy most players from Ajax then because hey .. they are all technically very good and will more likely go on to become great players.

Players perform better in well drilled teams that play a system. Thats why John O Shea was successful here - not because he was technically good.

Donny has average technical ability and will be a flop here because the team will never be built to revolve around his only quality which is short passes and little movements.

Better to sell him while he has blind believers who still jerk off to his average first touch, dribbling, shooting and passing just because he’s from Ajax or because Madrid were supposedly interested in him.

 

[TheRedHearted]

Spoiler alert, no one knows. No one here at least.

had we had more injuries simultaneously to pogba and Bruno he would have been very helpful. Thankfully that didn’t happen. For our sake and brunos hopefully he isn’t too burnt out. Next season any cup games that aren’t the champions league Fernandes should be rested on.
Donny can still become useful to us. And if not he’s young and the resale shouldn’t be such a drop off. Let’s pray he has a great World Cup!

also if we sign the type of DM we all want him and pogba or him and Bruno would be a great midfield three.

 

[Amir]

Ole, but i'm sure he had a gun to his head. Feels a bit like when Mourinho was given Fred after moaning about lack of transfer activity.

He may well have had other players higher in his list for that position, but he wasn't forced to sign him. If he thought wasn't right for him and VDB was the only choice left he could have decided not to sign anyone for that role.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Paul Tomkins and Graeme Riley did a huge research project into transfers as part of their book, Pay As You Play. They found that 50% of transfers are a success, and that figure applies as much to high priced signings of elite players, as it does to lower priced transfers. If you go on Transfermarkt and look at a few clubs' signings over say the last 8 to 10 years, you'll see that this 50% figure seems realistic.

Van de Beek was signed using the same process as Maguire, Wan-Bissaka, James, Fernandes, Telles, Cavani, Pellistri and Amad. The recruitment team have a veto, as does Solskjaer. Both parties must have been sufficiently happy to agree to the signing, otherwise they would have used their veto.

Donny was signed as a back-up player. Since the first choice in his position, Bruno Fernandes, was fit through-out the season, Donny hasn't featured that often. Liverpool signed a left-back last summer, Tsimikas, who has barely played for them. Ake cost City £40m, he hasn't played much either. Real Madrid have bought numerous back-up players over recent years, that haven't featured that often.

Teams have a 25 player squad. We buy players to be part of the squad. No-one knows which players will get injured during the season. No-one knows which players will have a Martial season. Suppose we bought Sancho for the price that Dortmund asked for, but missed out on Cavani, Amad, Pellistri and van de Beek, in order to part fund the deal. Sancho creates tons of chances that Martial, our main striker, without serious competition, then misses because he is having a terrible season.

This only makes sense if we didn’t have glaring holes in our first 11. Why would you sign a back up CAM when we had no actual striker or RW?

Pogba can play CAM and is very good in that position. I’d argue it is his best position, releasing him of defensive duties.

We would have been better off keeping the €40m this summer and investing in areas that can be greatly improved.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yup.

Back then most people in football thought it was a good deal for a very handy player, those people will have included Ole, Phelan and the transfer board, none of which vetoed the move.

Just because it hasn’t worked out in hindsight, a la Poborski or Klebersen, doesn’t suddenly mean it was any different to any other signing.

People seem far too hasty to write him off IMO. He might still come good. It’s not as though he hasn’t shown glimpses of what he could bring to the team. Getting cameo appearances as part of a severely understrength “B team” who’ve been dominated every time is the worst possible way for any new signing to show what he can do. Especially when he’s new to English football.

 

[duffer]

We all know Frank didn't want the Germans

He personally called them multiple times to convince them to join and then kept picking them despite despite their shit performances.

He definitely wanted them.

 

[Polar]

This is a funny thread because when VDB was linked with our club it was in competition with Grealish and there were so many clowns on this site that thought With the European experience and versatility that they thought VDB had that he was a better option for the club than Grealish and at that time they were in a fairly similar price range.
These clowns have gone quiet now and do not be surprised if there is a similar reaction if Sancho does come to our club and does not perform as expected.
I hope if Sancho comes he does pull up trees at our club but I find it so annoying when certain posters talk it up big style before the event and are nowhere to be seen if things do not work out.

Can’t remember a “competition” between Grealish and VDB and many of us preferring VDB on equal terms.

VDB wasn’t our first or second choice. Grealish probably was. Everyone thought VDB was better than nothing and wanted to give him a chance after the deal was sealed.

Think your tone is too much “I told you so”, and I don’t understand why you start early warning about Sancho in this context.

Sound like you have an agenda (Grealish) and do the same “talk up big time before the event”. Grealish isn’t more a guarantee for success than, example Sancho. United is a different world than Aston Villa, and we don’t know how Grealish will cope with new surroundings, teammates and a different way to play football.

 

[Withnail]

He personally called them multiple times to convince them to join and then kept picking them despite despite their shit performances.

He definitely wanted them.

I was joking because of what Harry Redknapp said after Lampard was sacked:

“When you look at the players, people say he’s spent all this money, did he bring the players in? Did he bring the Germans in? Management is so different now, managers aren’t always responsible for signing players."

 

[Bondi77]

Can’t remember a “competition” between Grealish and VDB and many of us preferring VDB on equal terms.

VDB wasn’t our first or second choice. Grealish probably was. Everyone thought VDB was better than nothing and wanted to give him a chance after the deal was sealed.

Think your tone is too much “I told you so”, and I don’t understand why you start early warning about Sancho in this context.

Sound like you have an agenda (Grealish) and do the same “talk up big time before the event”. Grealish isn’t more a guarantee for success than, example Sancho. United is a different world than Aston Villa, and we don’t know how Grealish will cope with new surroundings, teammates and a different way to play football.

I do like Grealish and believe it or not I was hoping VDB would hit the ground running and be good for us but it is obvious it is not going to happen for him at our club.
How you interpret my post is up to you but I get no satisfaction when a player comes to our club and it does not work out, I leave that to opposing fans.
I think there is a higher percentage of success in Grealish being a hit at our club than Sancho for obvious reasons but if Sancho can take his Dortmund form to Utd I will be right up there with the rest of our fans cheering him on but I have reservations how he will adjust to the high tempo and physicality of England.
In regards to the “I told you so” brigade; This is what really pisses me off when the reason why posters go off early on a player is to say exactly that if they do do well and yet they are nowhere to be seen if they don’t.....I just like for it to actually happen before I comment on it.

 

[Mcking]

Remember when he was going to be an upgrade on Mata, Lingard and Pereira combined? He is not even as good as either, and it didn't take me more than a few games for him in our team to see it.

The gross underrating of our better performing players is becoming increasingly tiring. Everyone is better than our players. I used to be a part, but I've seen this players combine to blow highly rated teams away. Fred seems like the latest target now.