Who gets the 3rd midfield slot: Fred or McTominay

[Fortitude]

Unless we play a diamond, or a 3-4-3, two into one does not go. Bruno and Pogba are 100% starters, so there's one more position to be accounted for. That position has two of our best performers of the season vying for it in Fred and McTominay.

Accepting the premise of this thread, which of the two would you restart the season with?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Personally I think it will be Fred. I understand people will say that midfield is too porous but at this current time Fred is the better player and has had a better overall season compared to McTomminay. A lot of our defensive shape will have to rely on both Pogba and Fernandes tracking back and also more cover from our fullbacks. It’s certainly got exciting potential.

 

[Brightonian]

It's a weird one. I've seen people across the forum absolutely convinced that each of them is the 'more defensive' player. I think that comes down to McTominay having the better defensive skills - he's a more dogged tackler, physically stronger, less likely to lose the ball under pressure - but Fred being more positionally and tactically suited to the role - he sees the game better, is more likely to adapt his actions to what teammates are doing, is more positionally disciplined, and distributes the ball better under pressure.

My choice would probably be Fred. Scott works better as a more defensive alternative to Pogba. But of course they'd both get plenty of game time sharing that deeper position.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Nothing stopping us from trying both to see what works

 

[Samid]

Neither. Start with Matic who is the only DM we have.

 

[Bilbo]

I'm still very doubtful that a 3 man midfield with both Pogba and Bruno in it will work. I wouldnt start Pogba against Spurs.

 

[SSSSnake]

Fred has be fantastic for winning the ball back and being the person to drive our attacks forward. I hope Ole can find the right balance but I’m glad we are in this position fighting for starting places like this.

 

[The Original]

Unless we play a diamond, or a 3-4-3, two into one does not go. Bruno and Pogba are 100% starters, so there's one more position to be accounted for. That position has two of our best performers of the season vying for it in Fred and McTominay.

Accepting the premise of this thread, which of the two would you restart the season with?

Matic I think may be the surprise choice. He's the one who has played the withdrawn midfield position the most so far, and he has played it well.

 

[RkkMan]

Matic.

 

[Scarecrow]

Depends on the day and opponent.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Matic has played well this season but he’s not a viable option in a 2 with Pogba which has been shown time and time again. Matic doesn’t have the legs that McTomminay or Fred has and as a result it doesn’t matter if he’s our only pure DM or not, he simply cannot cover the ground required for that role.

 

[MUFromLTU]

We will have more games per same amount of time than we would have if season wasn't paused. I don't think that any of Pogba/Matic/McT/Fred will be starting 3+ games in a row and having ability to rotate them is a huge advantage compared to most other EPL teams, also the 5 subs rule will allow us to rotate them even more often and if we keep using the same formation I'd guess all 4 of these players will end up with similar amount of total minutes, unless one's form has taken a huge dip in the 'off-season'.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

With 5 subs allowed, it would make a ton of sense to rotate one midfielder every half at the beginning of the restart.

 

[Lennon7]

Neither. Start with Matic who is the only DM we have.

Fred is as good as Matic defensively, especially considering attributes like being able to keep up with the opposition.

 

[TheReligion]

The answer is Mctominay

 

[charlenefan]

Toss a coin there's nothing between the two of them (probably why they worked so well as a pair)

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

It’s a great position to be in and it’s long overdue for us, we need to rotate the midfield options so we can dominate all game so I can see these players, Pog, Bruno, Fred, McT and Matic all getting game time.

I’d start with Bruno, Fred & McT for the Spurs game, bringing Pog & Matic on if required. Then rotate them accordingly depending on who we’re playing.

Home games maybe try and get Bruno & Pog in from the start with one of the others holding.

 

[Eckers99]

Depends on the day and opponent.

Exactly. It's great to have options.

 

[Infra-red]

I don't think either of them are really a proper #6, but with ultra-defensive fullbacks likely to start in both fullback positions, I don't expect us to be too porous, even if the midfield doesn't offer much cover.

A holding player with decent passing ability, should be on our shopping list for the summer, though (as should an attacking left back, really).

 

[Red Company]

This is an interesting thread.

One important thing to note is that Pogba will not be playing the full 90 minute in most games.

The goal will be to get a few early goals in and then secure the win.

We’re also allowed 5 subs and combine that fact with more frequent games, I think we’ll be preppin a dual midfield setup with 2 midfielders substituted every game, simultaneously. Whereby the focus will be on Bruno + Pogba to start the game and Fred + McT to close the games together.

In the situation that Pogba and Bruno both start, I’d prefer McT as the final midfield starter. He has the legs and physicality to play his position as the deepest lying midfielder well in terms of providing protection as compared to Fred.

I’d obviously bring on Fred as my first substitution as he provides more reliability in terms of positioning and he can replace any of the 3 playing midfielders but mostly a key replacement used in place of Pogba.

If our game plan isn’t working (as mentioned above, score goals/secure the win), and it’s Pogba that’s needed more, than obviously Fred is a better replacement for McT because he provides that extra dynamic attacking wise while maintaining his defensive duties.

Matic will obviously get game time based on rotation, but mostly as one of the last subs brought on to get even more defensive.
The only games I see him starting will be ones where others are being rested.

 

[Fortitude]

Neither. Start with Matic who is the only DM we have.

Matic I think may be the surprise choice. He's the one who has played the withdrawn midfield position the most so far, and he has played it well.

Matic.

Matic has played well this season but he’s not a viable option in a 2 with Pogba which has been shown time and time again. Matic doesn’t have the legs that McTomminay or Fred has and as a result it doesn’t matter if he’s our only pure DM or not, he simply cannot cover the ground required for that role.

Fair to mention him; can't see him being in the running over the other two, though, for the reasons stated by @TrustInJanuzaj above.

Can't imagine both Fred and McTominay being overlooked and starting on the bench, but fair play if it does turn out to be the case.

 

[Infra-red]

Home games maybe try and get Bruno & Pog in from the start with one of the others holding.

Of the 39 games played in the Bundesliga since the lockdown ended, there's only been 10 home wins.

When played behind closed doors, it appears that home advantage essentially evaporates. We'll probably find that we play just as well away from home as we do at OT, and that our home/away records for the remainder of the season, will be broadly similar.

 

[sparx99]

I’ve seen a few people saying McTominay isn’t a pure DM. The truth is he hasn’t been asked to play that role. He’s been playing in a two man midfield with license to get forward (box to box).

I think McTominay has everything to excel in the role if we encouraged that development out of him. He’s big, strong, quick across the ground, a great tackler and has a fantastic mentality.

The closest midfield we could try to mimic may be Real Madrid’s trio of Kroos, Casemiro and Modric. Casemiro is considered the defensive minded player but he always had license to get forward it needed with Kroos often picking the ball deepest.

Kroos = Pogba
Casemiro = McTominay/Fred
Modric = Bruno

 

[dalriada]

Will depend on the side we're playing. Pogba will not start every game anyway, I would guess, and even Fernandes will need resting from time to time.

Agree with most of the posts on here, Fred offers better positioning and is nippy and energetic (still needs to pass better), McTominay offers better physicality and his determination and drive are qualities that are good to have in the side. Then for some games where an out and out DM is needed, Matić is a better option, although his lack of pace and age means he will be used less.

Good to have options, especially with so many matches coming up close together.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

Of the 39 games played in the Bundesliga since the lockdown ended, there's only been 10 home wins.

When played behind closed doors, it appears that home advantage essentially evaporates. We'll probably find that we play just as well away from home as we do at OT, and that our home/away records for the remainder of the season, will be broadly similar.

Fair enough, I just want to see them play together but not sure it’ll be the best combination all round

 

[Leftback99]

We had a good balance with Fred and Matic/McTominay. The question might be can we make it work with 4 of them for some games while we don't have an outstanding RW option.

 

[Red Company]

Will depend on the side we're playing. Pogba will not start every game anyway, I would guess, and even Fernandes will need resting from time to time.

Agree with most of the posts on here, Fred offers better positioning and is nippy and energetic (still needs to pass better), McTominay offers better physicality and his determination and drive are qualities that are good to have in the side. Then for some games where an out and out DM is needed, Matić is a better option, although his lack of pace and age means he will be used less.

Good to have options, especially with so many matches coming up close together.

Considering how closely placed teams between 4-8th place are, I see Pogba starting most games until we can afford to rest him from the start.

If we take the risk of not starting him when we should be, and concede goal(s) by the time he’s brought on, it might be too late already for him to have a major impact as teams will lock down defensively to avoid a loss/draw from a favourable position.

 

[Maticmaker]

It will be 'horses for courses'.

For me Fernandez is the only positive choice, then its with Pogba and McTominay, or on some occasions with Fred and McTominay, occasionally Pogba and Fred with Fernandez and always with Matic as back up.

 

[0le]

Fair to mention him; can't see him being in the running over the other two, though, for the reasons stated by @TrustInJanuzaj above.

Can't imagine both Fred and McTominay being overlooked and starting on the bench, but fair play if it does turn out to be the case.

I actually completely forgot about Matic

 

[simplyared]

Neither. Start with Matic who is the only DM we have.

Agreed 100%

 

[Kag]

Yeah, Matic. Our necessary evil.

How much more evidence is needed before it’s widely accepted that he’s a major part of the improvement in our defensive record?

I despair when I see McTominay favoured in the sitting role. He couldn’t be less suited for it, to be honest. He’s the least defensively capable of all our options in there. He’s actually the most box to box of three. It’s barmy logic to sit him in there.

 

[dalriada]

Considering how closely placed teams between 4-8th place are, I see Pogba starting most games until we can afford to rest him from the start.

If we take the risk of not starting him when we should be, and concede goal(s) by the time he’s brought on, it might be too late already for him to have a major impact as teams will lock down defensively to avoid a loss/draw from a favourable position.

If the combination of Fernandes and Pogba works out the way a lot of people hope, then Pogba will start most EPL games. He came back in December though and disappeared again, so it will depend on his match fitness and how he clicks with the rest of the team, which was beginning to look very cohesive without him. We're also assuming that he wants to stay and play, which a lot of people would have questioned up to the COVID hiatus, although his options may have changed now. So it will depend on what he looks like once he starts playing again - if his form doesn't warrant it, he shouldn't be guaranteed a starting place.

No question of what he can bring to the game and why we need him, it does need to be about the football and the team, though, not about accommodating Pogba and who he wants to play with.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I’d probably go with Fred given the form he was in and I just think that currently he just has a better understanding and when tasked to do a job he does it.
Saying that when I see and listen to McT in interviews he just seems like the kind of person that gets it and will do whatever is needed. Seems to have that proper big game mentality. However Maybe gets a bit too excited still at times and neglects the defensive duties. Has let a few people run off him.

Anyway I think Shaw and Bissaka or one of will be tasked with coming inside to help the DM cover as we press forward.

Pogba likes to drift to the left and Rashford likes to go inside, so I could see this pattern happening a lot.

There is always Matic who let’s face it is the best suited for DM there is in the entire squad.

​

 

[hmchan]

It's a classical way to set up the midfield with a holding midfielder who sits in front of the backline, a box-to-box who has the freedom to go forward, and a creative playmaker who is responsible for creating chances. This sytem provides balance to the team and it is so popular that most teams adopt it. Many teams have achieved success with this setup over the years too. In this sense, it is reasonable for someone mentioning Matic here because he's basically the most apparent option for the holding role right now.

There is one complicating factor though. It seems that Ole doesn't stick to this system all the time, not sure if he thinks Matic is not good enough or he's not a fan of this system at all. At the beginning of the season, he picked McTominay alongisde Pogba and gave both of them the license to break forward. The same applied to the partnership of Fred and McTominay after Pogba was injured. It's interesting to see how he'll arrange the midfield when all the options are available.

 

[bosnian_red]

McTominay suits the other 2 better IMO, and the management love McTominay and i think hes a long term staple as our defensive mid. Midfield rotation is good though.

To start off i think we put Bruno as a floating right sided attacking midfielder, Pogba through the middle where Bruno was, and keep Fred and McTominay or Matic.

 

[slored1]

Tough one to pick. Probably Fred, in the big games we could use both though and play a diamond.

 

[Red Company]

McTominay suits the other 2 better IMO, and the management love McTominay and i think hes a long term staple as our defensive mid. Midfield rotation is good though.

To start off i think we put Bruno as a floating right sided attacking midfielder, Pogba through the middle where Bruno was, and keep Fred and McTominay or Matic.

I like this idea too! Bruno on the RW to start!
I think James/Greenwood are a risk to start on the RW so late in the season. They can be more impactful as a sub in the latter stages of the game.

A front four of Rashford, Martial, Bruno & Pogba seems viable with Fred + McT behind them.

 

[dalriada]

It's a classical way to set up the midfield with a holding midfielder who sits in front of the backline, a box-to-box who has the freedom to go forward, and a creative playmaker who is responsible for creating chances. This sytem provides balance to the team and it is so popular that most teams adopt it. Many teams have achieved success with this setup over the years too. In this sense, it is reasonable for someone mentioning Matic here because he's basically the most apparent option for the holding role right now.

There is one complicating factor though. It seems that Ole doesn't stick to this system all the time, not sure if he thinks Matic is not good enough or he's not a fan of this system at all. At the beginning of the season, he picked McTominay alongisde Pogba and gave both of them the license to break forward. The same applied to the partnership of Fred and McTominay after Pogba was injured. It's interesting to see how he'll arrange the midfield when all the options are available.

Matić was generally considered to have had a bad pre-season and was left out at the start of the season. Nor was Fred an automatic choice and when he did play his passing was often poor and he lost the ball a lot. McTominay was sometimes played in formations that didn't suit him but he was in good form until he was injured. Ole's choices soon began to be dictated by injuries, and Fred and Matić both improved once they started playing regularly, so I think that his selections until recently have largely been a question of who was available. If Pogba returns and the rest of the squad is fit barring the odd fringe player, then I think we'll see more of Ole making selections that suit the game and the opponent.

 

[MAME DIOUF 32]

Fred is player of the season as far as I'm concerned so he's in the team. I start with a high work rate midfield of Fred, McTominay and Fernandes, unless Ole's somehow come up with a way to suddenly start getting the best out of Pogba during the break.

 

[MAME DIOUF 32]

Tough one to pick. Probably Fred, in the big games we could use both though and play a diamond.

I like this

Fred
McTominay Pogba
Fernandes

But, Wan-Bissaka is the wrong right back to have for that kind of narrow formation.