Who has had the better international career? Messi or Ronaldo?

Zehner

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I don't think it is about defender vs. attacker. Creation is simply more difficult than destroying. The most gifted players usually tend to play in attacking roles. Somebody like Beckenbauer is an absolute exception, probably even one of a kind.
 

Gehrman

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I don't think it is about defender vs. attacker. Creation is simply more difficult than destroying. The most gifted players usually tend to play in attacking roles. Somebody like Beckenbauer is an absolute exception, probably even one of a kind.
They had muller upfront to score the goals anyway.
 

Zehner

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They had muller upfront to score the goals anyway.
Which is really remarkable. Müller was an all time great goal scorer, yet I haven't encountered a single German who considers him greater than Beckenbauer - technically, a defender. To me this encapsulates that it isn't about who scores the most but who has the greatest positive impact for his team through whichever means :) Beckenbauer is considered the best German player of all time because everything flowed through him. He was technically the best and the outstanding playmaker of his teams. Which is essentially why I also believe that Messi has had a better career than Cristiano, for club and country. Messi's overall contribution is so much ahead of his rival that even when he scores less frequently (as he did for Argentina compared to Cristiano for Portugal), it more than makes up for it.

Not a dig at Ronaldo, it is just that I believe people underestimate how ridiculous it is that Messi maintains this kind of scoring record while also being such a great playmaker.
 

Gehrman

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Which is really remarkable. Müller was an all time great goal scorer, yet I haven't encountered a single German who considers him greater than Beckenbauer - technically, a defender. To me this encapsulates that it isn't about who scores the most but who has the greatest positive impact for his team through whichever means :) Beckenbauer is considered the best German player of all time because everything flowed through him. He was technically the best and the outstanding playmaker of his teams. Which is essentially why I also believe that Messi has had a better career than Cristiano, for club and country. Messi's overall contribution is so much ahead of his rival that even when he scores less frequently (as he did for Argentina compared to Cristiano for Portugal), it more than makes up for it.

Not a dig at Ronaldo, it is just that I believe people underestimate how ridiculous it is that Messi maintains this kind of scoring record while also being such a great playmaker.
I wonder if in the current era of football one the absolute greatest goalscorers of all time could be overshadowed in the same team by a defender.
 

GinobiliTheGOAT

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It's pretty even isn't it. They've both got a continental win, both scored and assisted ridiculous amounts.
But Pele has 3 world cups and shits on both of them.
Brazil were winning world cups when pele was on the bench (1962) and only had one goal the entire tourney. Those Brazil teams were stacked back then and the competition wasn’t nearly as good. Messi and Ronaldo would have won word cups back then too playing for Brazil.
 

tentan

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Brazil were winning world cups when pele was on the bench (1962) and only had one goal the entire tourney. Those Brazil teams were stacked back then and the competition wasn’t nearly as good. Messi and Ronaldo would have won word cups back then too playing for Brazil.
 

TheNewEra

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It's not really a debate for me, Messi he's reached four major finals and they were a whisker away in all the finals. Including the WC.
 

ThierryFabregas

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Which is really remarkable. Müller was an all time great goal scorer, yet I haven't encountered a single German who considers him greater than Beckenbauer - technically, a defender. To me this encapsulates that it isn't about who scores the most but who has the greatest positive impact for his team through whichever means :) Beckenbauer is considered the best German player of all time because everything flowed through him. He was technically the best and the outstanding playmaker of his teams. Which is essentially why I also believe that Messi has had a better career than Cristiano, for club and country. Messi's overall contribution is so much ahead of his rival that even when he scores less frequently (as he did for Argentina compared to Cristiano for Portugal), it more than makes up for it.

Not a dig at Ronaldo, it is just that I believe people underestimate how ridiculous it is that Messi maintains this kind of scoring record while also being such a great playmaker.
Was Beckenbauer an out and out defender though? Looking at videos it looks like he drifts deep into the opposition half in what looks like a box to box midfield role. Surely he was playing in a back 3 then and given creative licence to roam forward while being the heartbeat of the team. Well before my time so I can only speculate.

EDIT a quick google of the 1974 formation shows it was a flat back 4. But Vogts as right back would drop deep to cover for Beckenbauer's forward runs, playing as a make shift centre back.

I don't think Beckenbauer would be played as a centre back in this era. Managers would want him as the focal point. He potentially could of been more influential if he didn't have to drop so far back.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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It's not really a debate for me, Messi he's reached four major finals and they were a whisker away in all the finals. Including the WC.
The COPA is generally just a two horse race though, with the occasional additional team that has a golden generation.

I think there have only been a handful of finals not Involving one of them. Absolute cakewalk.
 

genardk

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The COPA is generally just a two horse race though, with the occasional additional team that has a golden generation.

I think there have only been a handful of finals not Involving one of them. Absolute cakewalk.
No, it's a one horse race with Brazil winning most tournaments. Argentina won only two between 1959-2021 (in 93 & 95).
 

GinobiliTheGOAT

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The COPA is generally just a two horse race though, with the occasional additional team that has a golden generation.

I think there have only been a handful of finals not Involving one of them. Absolute cakewalk.
A 2 horse race get chile won 2 of the last 4
 

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Messi is better in every way than Ronaldo except as a pure striker. Messi is superior footballer to Ronaldo in every other category regardless of club or international career.
 

Andycoleno9

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Ronaldo without question. Won 2 World cups and two Copa America.


There is only one Ronaldo
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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A 2 horse race get chile won 2 of the last 4
Yeah mate. That’s the Caveat I highlighted. They had one golden generation and played….. Argentina in both finals.

Only 5 finals haven’t had one of Argentina or Brazil in them. You’re denying observable reality to suggest it’s not a piece of piss for them both. Guaranteed semi-finals.

I think Messi is a better footballer than Ronaldo, but Ronaldo’s Euro exploits are rightfully valued higher than Messi’s COPA efforts. It’s not a slight. It’s just circumstance.

EDIT ::: I may have quoted a shitty stat. I used a Wiki table that another table disagrees with. Anywho, point-being, Argentina have easy routes to the semi final, always.
 

SportingCP96

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It’s easily and and a no contest Ronaldo on this front.

Before Ronaldo Portugal had zero trophies and barely qualified for major tournaments.

With Ronaldo 3 final 2 won a WC semi final and multiple other Euro semi finals.

This all while playing for a majority of his career with a inferior national team. In WC 2014 for example the last time we played Ghana our lineup was

Beto Veloso Alves pepe João Pereira amorim William Moutinho Eder nani Ronaldo and on the bench Varela and Ricardo costa among other garbage.

The Euro win Alone is a bigger feat then anything messi has done with Argentina. If you remove bias the copa América is the South Americans version of the gold cup. Argentina or Brazil are in the final 9x out of 10. It’s a given….

Ronaldos international record is incredible with the players he had supporting him. Many times he has single handedly pulled Portugal out of the mud.

2-1 vs Netherlands, both games vs sweden, vs Spain, the list goes on and on.

If Ronaldo played for Argentina and those group of players I would imagine he would have 2 copa Américas and I would fancy him in a major final/moment over Anyone so maybe he is sitting pretty with a World Cup.

Argentina has won major trophies before Messi and they will win them after…that’s the difference between the two nations.

With Portugal they never won without him….they won TWO with him….and they is a Huge chance they don’t win anything after him. Our history and size of our country has dictated that.

So club level we can argue all day and night.

International level? Ronaldo every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Not even a debate really.
 

SportingCP96

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Yeah mate. That’s the Caveat I highlighted. They had one golden generation and played….. Argentina in both finals.

Only 5 finals haven’t had one of Argentina or Brazil in them. You’re denying observable reality to suggest it’s not a piece of piss for them both. Guaranteed semi-finals.

I think Messi is a better footballer than Ronaldo, but Ronaldo’s Euro exploits are rightfully valued higher than Messi’s COPA efforts. It’s not a slight. It’s just circumstance.

EDIT ::: I may have quoted a shitty stat. I used a Wiki table that another table disagrees with. Anywho, point-being, Argentina have easy routes to the semi final, always.
100%

The copa America does not hold nearly as much weight. It’s a micky mouse cup for Brazil and Argentina. Those two are almost t always in the final, it’s a joke.
 

genardk

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Messi was chosen as the MVP of every single tournament he participated in, WC, Copa, Olympics, U-20 WC, while Ronaldo 0, not even close. He was not even the best player of Portugal in EC 2016, did not even play in the final more than 15 minutes..
 

genardk

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It’s easily and and a no contest Ronaldo on this front.

Before Ronaldo Portugal had zero trophies and barely qualified for major tournaments.

With Ronaldo 3 final 2 won a WC semi final and multiple other Euro semi finals.
Wrong, Before Ronaldo, Portugal played SF in 1966 WC and EC SF in 1984 & 2000. Figo and co were more influential in 2006 WC. The guy was not even chosen as a best player in a major tournament vs Messi with 5 including a WC.

This all while playing for a majority of his career with a inferior national team. In WC 2014 for example the last time we played Ghana our lineup was

Beto Veloso Alves pepe João Pereira amorim William Moutinho Eder nani Ronaldo and on the bench Varela and Ricardo costa among other garbage.
So inferior that the team won EC against France in Paris without him)) so that he can show off..

The Euro win Alone is a bigger feat then anything messi has done with Argentina. If you remove bias the copa América is the South Americans version of the gold cup. Argentina or Brazil are in the final 9x out of 10. It’s a given….
He was not even the best player of Portugal in that tournament, did not even play more than 15 minutes in the final, his performances were nothing special. Greece as a surprise winner like Portugal in 2004 had to eliminate Spain, France, Portugal twice (home team) and an amazing Czech team to win the title.
Denmark in 1992 , another surprise winner, had to play against France, England, Sweden (home team), Netherlands and Germany to win the title.

Portugal's win is the jammiest win ever with teams like Hungary, Austria, Poland, Iceland, Wales etc. not even a single major force other than France. That does not look like the usual path of a EC winner to anyone)). Also, that supposedly "weak without Ronaldo" Portugal team won it without him so that he could get all the credit))

Ronaldos international record is incredible with the players he had supporting him. Many times he has single handedly pulled Portugal out of the mud.
Just like the rest of the Portugal squad brought him EC without him, he should be grateful that rest of the squad did it so that he can get all the credit.. You seem to have zero respect for the rest of the team to elevate your countryman Ronaldo.

If Ronaldo played for Argentina and those group of players I would imagine he would have 2 copa Américas and I would fancy him in a major final/moment over Anyone so maybe he is sitting pretty with a World Cup.
Continue imagining Ronaldo as the playmaker + goalscorer for the NT) You are conflating team success with individual success fully ignoring the fact that Messi was chosen as the best player in every single tournament he played in including the WC, Ronaldo has "0" zero.

Argentina has won major trophies before Messi and they will win them after…that’s the difference between the two nations.
With Portugal they never won without him….they won TWO with him….and they is a Huge chance they don’t win anything after him. Our history and size of our country has dictated that.
Such a clever comparison, as if football is a 1-man sport.. As if Portugal did not win EC without him in the final, such an inferior squad)) If only Messi had a player like Eder instead of Higuain to help him. You can't even see that football is a team sport not singles tennis..

By the way, Ronaldo's goal scoring record against "weak" Americans (USA, Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Ecuador, Chile) is terrible, 2 goals in 11 games..
 

Foxbatt

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I think trophy wise Ronaldo is better because he won the EC. It's no slight on Messi that he has not won the WC. As a creater he did all he can. Just because the Argentina strikers were shite don't mean Messi was to blame.
Just like Ronaldo didn't do feck all in the final don't mean he has not won the EC.
 

Swoobs

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Wrong, Before Ronaldo, Portugal played SF in 1966 WC and EC SF in 1984 & 2000. Figo and co were more influential in 2006 WC. The guy was not even chosen as a best player in a major tournament vs Messi with 5 including a WC.



So inferior that the team won EC against France in Paris without him)) so that he can show off..



He was not even the best player of Portugal in that tournament, did not even play more than 15 minutes in the final, his performances were nothing special. Greece as a surprise winner like Portugal in 2004 had to eliminate Spain, France, Portugal twice (home team) and an amazing Czech team to win the title.
Denmark in 1992 , another surprise winner, had to play against France, England, Sweden (home team), Netherlands and Germany to win the title.

Portugal's win is the jammiest win ever with teams like Hungary, Austria, Poland, Iceland, Wales etc. not even a single major force other than France. That does not look like the usual path of a EC winner to anyone)). Also, that supposedly "weak without Ronaldo" Portugal team won it without him so that he could get all the credit))



Just like the rest of the Portugal squad brought him EC without him, he should be grateful that rest of the squad did it so that he can get all the credit.. You seem to have zero respect for the rest of the team to elevate your countryman Ronaldo.



Continue imagining Ronaldo as the playmaker + goalscorer for the NT) You are conflating team success with individual success fully ignoring the fact that Messi was chosen as the best player in every single tournament he played in including the WC, Ronaldo has "0" zero.



Such a clever comparison, as if football is a 1-man sport.. As if Portugal did not win EC without him in the final, such an inferior squad)) If only Messi had a player like Eder instead of Higuain to help him. You can't even see that football is a team sport not singles tennis..

By the way, Ronaldo's goal scoring record against "weak" Americans (USA, Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Ecuador, Chile) is terrible, 2 goals in 11 games..
Don’t you know? A player appearing in a WC semis unquestionably had a better international career than one who was in the final of a WC and won the best player award. “Not really a contest really”, hear that, not even a debate alright :lol:
 

Iker Quesadillas

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Messi winning the 2014 'best player of the WC' award was pretty controversial at the time. There were complaints about it even in Argentina.
 

Gehrman

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Was Beckenbauer an out and out defender though? Looking at videos it looks like he drifts deep into the opposition half in what looks like a box to box midfield role. Surely he was playing in a back 3 then and given creative licence to roam forward while being the heartbeat of the team. Well before my time so I can only speculate.

EDIT a quick google of the 1974 formation shows it was a flat back 4. But Vogts as right back would drop deep to cover for Beckenbauer's forward runs, playing as a make shift centre back.

I don't think Beckenbauer would be played as a centre back in this era. Managers would want him as the focal point. He potentially could of been more influential if he didn't have to drop so far back.
He was a traditional sweeper. He would drive the ball up the pitch
 

cyberman

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Ronaldo. You don’t have to be the main man in a final win to have a great international career you weirdos.
 

Bole Top

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never a debate. the true goat is dominating the world cup yet again, while Ronnie is sulking on the bench, trying to sabotage the manager and trying to steal his team mates goals. those are the factos I'm afraid. siuuuuuuuuuu in 2026, my dear botox CR fans.
 

mathrait

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Ronaldo is a choker when it comes to international tournaments. Not sure how this was even a debate.

5 World Cups and 5 Euros, and he's never performed anywhere near the level that Messi has in this World Cup or the 2014 WC, or Copa America 2015, 2016, 2021.

Zero goals in the WC knockout stages for a player who offers nothing but goals to his team is a pretty damning statistic
 
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Swoobs

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Siuuuu, cannot wait to see CR41 in WC2026 trying to force the debate again :lol:
 

Ladron de redcafe

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Ronaldo's world cup career comes to an end with zero goals and zero assists in the world cup knockout states.

8 goals in 5 tournaments with 2 assists. An average of 2 goal contributions per tournament.

His average match rating in his final tournament was a 6.6 with zero non penalty goals and culminating with being relegated to the bench for the final two matches.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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Ronaldo is a choker when it comes to international tournaments. Not sure how this was even a debate.

5 World Cups and 5 Euros, and he's never performed anywhere near the level that Messi has in this World Cup or the 2014 WC, or Copa America 2015, 2016, 2021.

Zero goals in the WC knockout stages for a player who offers nothing but goals to his team is a pretty damning statistic
Zero assists as well.
And ofcourse never came close to player of the tournament in any international tournament he has played in.
 

Swoobs

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If Messi wins the WC, not even the staunchest of Ronaldo fanboys can continue arguing for their man.
You will be surprised. Afterall Ronaldo was voted as the person who has won the most world cup (ahead of Pele) just before this world cup, hence alternate reality etc
 

bosnian_red

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This pretty much comes down to if Argentina win the world Cup or not. Otherwise they're both level when it comes to international football IMO.

Ronaldo hasn't had the best of times in world cups, but he is the top international scorer of all time...

In terms of who was the better player over their career, no question there. It's tight between better scorer, who had a better career, who achieved greater things etc. But better overall player over their career is Messi and that one isn't particularly close IMO. Messi is arguably the best scorer along with Ronaldo, but also has the best creator/passer and best dribbler points locked up and well above Ronaldo's level.