Who has regressed and who has impressed under Ole?

[mariachi-19]

Seems like there's a few posters who seem to hold the opinion that players aren't developing under Ole (I think this was touched on the pod on a few occasions).

What does the caf say?

Personally

Impressed:
McSauce
The Wall
Hamez
Beans
Martial (yes and no as he was never played by Mourinho that centrally)
Fred
Lindels (same as martial)
Andreas (yes and no as he lacks consistency but has shown glimpses of quality).

Clearly Regressed
Mata
Matic
Lingard
Jones
Young (at times yes and no)
Shaw (at times yes and no - usually when fit he improves)

I think the difference is that the players who are energetic and play at a faster pace have looked substantially better than those who play more in traditional Mourinho styles.

Our transition to attack from the back is probably the best in the league or close to it hence the reason we tend to open teams up quite easily. The discuss then is, while results are not stella, the list that has impressed has a ridiculously low average age and those are players who are not even close to their peak. You will always find inconsistency with young players and that sort of backs up our results this season. Flashes of brilliance amongst alot of average performances, but the worst performances are when we have relied on the players that have regressed under Ole. Is he actually doing a half decent job getting some form of a tune out of these players, considering the vast majority of experienced players in our squad have turned to absolute shit or are not playing?

 

[Sky1981]

Whoa whoa whoa, hold on a second.

We have 5 wins in 14

We're the "best in the league" on attack from the back?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Lingard & Matic had already regressed under Mourinho.

 

[RyRy11]

I think Rashford and Scott are the only fair cases of players improving from last year, we need to see more performances from Fred over the season to put him in this category.

Matic, Mata, Jones and Young look just as poor with Shaw and Lingard Regressing.

 

[SteveW]

Seems like there's a few posters who seem to hold the opinion that players aren't developing under Ole (I think this was touched on the pod on a few occasions).

What does the caf say?

Personally

Impressed:
McSauce
The Wall
Hamez
Beans
Martial (yes and no as he was never played by Mourinho that centrally)
Fred
Lindels (same as martial)
Andreas (yes and no as he lacks consistency but has shown glimpses of quality).

Clearly Regressed
Mata
Matic
Lingard
Jones
Young (at times yes and no)
Shaw (at times yes and no - usually when fit he improves)

I think the difference is that the players who are energetic and play at a faster pace have looked substantially better than those who play more in traditional Mourinho styles.

Our transition to attack from the back is probably the best in the league or close to it hence the reason we tend to open teams up quite easily. The discuss then is, while results are not stella, the list that has impressed has a ridiculously low average age and those are players who are not even close to their peak. You will always find inconsistency with young players and that sort of backs up our results this season. Flashes of brilliance amongst alot of average performances, but the worst performances are when we have relied on the players that have regressed under Ole. Is he actually doing a half decent job getting some form of a tune out of these players, considering the vast majority of experienced players in our squad have turned to absolute shit or are not playing?

To be fair several of those who have regressed are in natural decline due to age and/or injuries. I can't really think of a single player than is actually getting worse due to the coaching hes receiving.

Edit: maybe Lindelof. although tbh I always thought he was kinda shite

 

[bosnian_red]

Regressed:

• De Gea (not Ole's fault, but he was god like before and had his worst year in 2019)
• Lindelof (kinda)
• Jones (he wasn't this bad in previous years)
• Matic (age)
• Mata (age)
• Lingard (think it's more bad form than regression)

No change:

• Romero
• Tuanzebe
• Rojo
• Bailly
• Shaw
• Young
• Pereira

Improved:

• McTominay
• Rashford
• Martial (when hes fit...)
• Fred
• Pogba (when fit)

Not including new signings. Comparing pre and post Ole. Most of the ones who seem to have declined pretty much did it due to age/not having a starting role anymore, and I wouldn't say it's due to anyone being mismanaged (he just sold those away like Lukaku). Bulk of them haven't changed from being good one day and shit the next. The small group that has improved has improved by a lot in general, fitness being the main problem (which you can pin on Ole, but I dont have sympathy for players not being able to stay free of injuries if it's their own personal fitness that is the reason they arent capable of it).

 

[mariachi-19]

Whoa whoa whoa, hold on a second.

We have 5 wins in 14

We're the "best in the league" on attack from the back?

Unless you are blind, our movement from defence to attack is quite clearly our best attacking outlet and has played a large part in creating chances against every opposition we play. We more often than not create our chances through this style of football. This doesn't necessarily mean that it results in goals and wins but its chance creation. Similarly our build up play in attacks from the middle of the park are generally average to poor as we dont have a funcitonal central creative attacking outlet IE Silva or DB at City.

If we were to remedy the latter, we would have more success than 5 wins in 14. It is clearly a deficiency in this squad and not something that can be rectified over night.

 

[SteveW]

Unless you are blind, our movement from defence to attack is quite clearly our best attacking outlet and has played a large part in creating chances against every opposition we play. We more often than not create our chances through this style of football. This doesn't necessarily mean that it results in goals and wins but its chance creation. Similarly our build up play in attacks from the middle of the park are generally average to poor as we dont have a funcitonal central creative attacking outlet IE Silva or DB at City.

If we were to remedy the latter, we would have more success than 5 wins in 14. It is clearly a deficiency in this squad and not something that can be rectified over night.

Nah, Ole has to coach Pereira to be another Silva or KDB or he's a shit coach with no tactics.

That's how it works on here isn't it?

 

[AgentP]

Nah, Ole has to coach Pereira to be another Silva or KDB or he's a shit coach with no tactics.

That's how it works on here isn't it?

This is where we are missing Pogba. We need his creativity in midfield. Just replace Pereira with Pogba and we’ll be a much better team.

 

[SteveW]

This is where we are missing Pogba. We need his creativity in midfield. Just replace Pereira with Pogba and we’ll be a much better team.

100% agree. Fred, Scotty and Pogba could be a superb midfield 3. It's just very unfortunate that we don't have a single decent replacement for any of them in the squad.

 

[Sky1981]

Unless you are blind, our movement from defence to attack is quite clearly our best attacking outlet and has played a large part in creating chances against every opposition we play. We more often than not create our chances through this style of football. This doesn't necessarily mean that it results in goals and wins but its chance creation. Similarly our build up play in attacks from the middle of the park are generally average to poor as we dont have a funcitonal central creative attacking outlet IE Silva or DB at City.

If we were to remedy the latter, we would have more success than 5 wins in 14. It is clearly a deficiency in this squad and not something that can be rectified over night.

5 wins in 14 and I'm blind for saying we're not the best in anything?

 

[Bobcat]

Rashford, McTomminay and Fred have undoubtedly improved.

Regarding Fred i honestly thought he was an utterly hopeless case and he still has yet to justify that price tag imo, but the difference lately from last year is night and day

 

[Sterling Archer]

Not a big fan of Ole right now, but that regressed list is absurd. Most of those players we should have moved onto retirement before Ole took over. Lingard included. Nothing to do with him.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

LIngard the only really baffling one. This style should suit him. He has a lack of quality that is getting shown up in the position he plays. His link is good and his running is good, but his final ball leaves us lacking in so many games.

Put pogba in there you get the final ball but lose a lot of the rest, personally think we badly need a signing in there. Not sure where pogba plays - put him in that team yesterday in cm and there's no way we grind out the win

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

The only players I think you can say have improved under Ole are Rashford, Fred and McTominay.

I can't call James because I didn't see him last season.

Regressed - DDG, Shaw, Lindelof, Maguire, Matic, Pereira, Mata, Lingard

Pogba (improved his form for 3 months, but not his ability), Martial, Young, AWB, are about the same.

Haven't seen enough of Tuanzebe, Dalot, Bailly, Jones, Rojo to judge. Never saw Greenwood before Ole so can't judge him.

 

[Craig Ward]

Bit of an odd one, as a lot of our players here have played under different managers and arguably shouldn't even be here before Ole came.

But i'll entertain the notion:
Regressed:
DDG
Lindelof
Young
Jones
Shaw
Periera
Lingard
Mata
Matic
Pogba

Have no opinion (long injury/not seen enough of)
Dalot/Bailly/Tuanzebe/Garner/Romero/Maguire

Improved:
AWB
Williams
James
Rashford
Martial
Greenwood
Fred
McTominey
Rojo

So slightly more in the regressed pack for me, but not too be too over critical i'll explain
DDG / Lindelof / Young are all still playing to a reasonably good level, but not at a level they have shown they can in the past
Jones / Shaw both suffer with long term injuries, when called upon look shaky and unreliable. Both have got worse with time and are unlikely to improve to an elite level
Periera / Lingard both try hard but even when on top form, they are just not capable of being "top class" players. Squad players at best, but neither have hit consistent good form
Mata / Matic both are well past they're peak, squad members at best
Pogba - always the talking point isn't he. He's not fulfilled his massive potential, therefore he's in this bracket. Until he displays consistently good performances he will always be a disappointing signing. The easiest name to put on this list for me.

We have more positives in the squad than negatives, but clearly a lot of work to go.

We need to either give Tuanzebe a run at CB or put more faith in Lindelöf to get better, not the worst options in the world but if Lindelöf stays at this level and Tuanzebe doesn't kick on, we will need to sign a top CB. Maguire hasn't looked great thus far, his form has been average i'd say.

We need a top LB. Young is ok, Shaw is sadly looking done and Williams too young. We can improve this area

We need at least 2 additions in central midfield. Fred and McTom have done ok, but depth wise we are seriously lacking quality.

We need another forward - depth again an issue.

And the one who causes much debate - Pogba. He's going its a question of when. Don't put faith in him, don't rely on him. Just plan for life without him, its the only thing we can do.

 

[slored1]

Improved: Rashford, James, McTominay
Stayed the same: Pereira, Fred, Jones, Maguire, Lindelof, DDG, Smalling, Pogba, Martial, Romero
Regressed: AWB, Shaw, Lukaku, Matic, Mata, Sanchez, Lingard, Bailly

 

[lysglimt]

Improved: Rashford, James, McTominay
Stayed the same: Pereira, Fred, Jones, Maguire, Lindelof, DDG, Smalling, Pogba, Martial, Romero
Regressed: AWB, Shaw, Lukaku, Matic, Mata, Sanchez, Lingard, Bailly

Fred stayed the same ? Probably our most improved player considering how horrible he was last season.

And AWB hasn't regressed….he is still being very solid one on one - but he has a lot to learn about positioning

 

[momo83]

Developed
Rashford
McTomminay (but was improving under Jose so could be his own natural

Fred, past several games has had a few decent with a few shit games, game vs Spurs being his best. If he becomes consistent then Ole deserves the credit.

Instead of regressed I’d like to take a different and more productive approach one that will help us understand if Ole can be a good coach.

AWB.By the end of the year will there be an improvement in his attacking game

James. How does the raw talent of James develop over time.

both of the above to soon to judge.

 

[Sassy Colin]

McSauce
The Wall
Hamez
Beans

Who?

This isn't RAWK, write the names properly, ffs!

 

[ash_86]

Our whole attacking players have improved. Scott. Fred in midfield. Very impressed with our overall progress

 

[Wumminator]

I don’t think anyone has regressed really. Most of the team are better.

 

[Bilbo]

Whats the deal with McSauce anyway? Where did that come from?

 

[gza the genius]

In general the attacking players and midfielders have improved, Lingard aside. And in general the defensive players seemed to have regressed some, mainly Lindelof (who I don't think has been bad but has certainly been worse than he was under Mourinho). Many of the other players regressing are just old or were never good in the first place.

Many are saying DDG has regressed but I think he's been fine this season - I think his regression last season was due to the contract issues so out of Ole's hands.

 

[Gator Nate]

I think Pereira's mold is cast and he needs to move to Italy or Spain.

McTominay is obviously progressing, as is Rashford and Fred. James has fit in well, hard to say he's gotten better, but he hasn't dropped off.

Hard to say about Martial, because of injury, and his Jeckyl and Hyde attitude through games - sometimes he's great off the ball, other times he doesn't look interested in playing. Shaw's in the same boat, injury-wise.

AWB is a defensive beast and we can hope they pull him up offensively. I would chalk up Maguire's apparent regression to integrating into the environment. I think Young contributes more on the left now than the right last year. Lindelof isn't any worse than last year, but with Shaw in the lineup, he becomes the weakest link, an easy target for criticism. Williams has some raw talent and should develop, as should Tuanzebe. Rojo is... Rojo - and Ole isn't going to be able to change that.

However, defensively, through 15 games, we've only conceded 18 goals to last year's 25, and have a +5 differential compared to last years -1. So that's an improvement, in spite of scoring one goal less than last year at this point.

 

[drunkmonkmeth]

Rashfrod mctomonay and fred

 

[0le]

Improved:
McT
Martial
Fred
Rashford

Fred has been good recently. McT looks better all round. Hard to say whether its Ole specifically or just players getting used to the league (Fred) or maturing (McT). Martial looks to have improved his hold up play. I've put Rashford there because despite his form being in and out this season, he has scored well and this looks to be his best season to date. Ole had a lot of faith in him, maybe some of it was necessary because of injuries but he deflected criticism for him during his dry run.

Regressed:
Mata
Lingard

I'm not really sure if Shaw has regressed. I think he is the same. Average LB, and never been quite fit enough to develop from there. Matic, well he's been injured and in and out of the team so its hard to say for sure. Young and Jones haven't regressed in my view. Jones is still poor and Young has good games with bad games. Lingard has been terrible for most of Ole's reign and Mata has struggled to make an impact.