It's so hard to put him ahead of all of those fancy attackers and midfielders
I think being world class in more than one position puts Krol up a couple of places for me, though it gets very tough the higher you go.It's so hard to put him ahead of all of those fancy attackers and midfielders
Wilkes surely should go into the HM list, Keizer... probably. Lovely player with flawless technique, but his lack of international appearances (since he had lost his place to Rensenbrink) really hurt his overall stature.You know what? Yeah, he surely gets in even if it's just for his part in Ajax's unreal domination.
I'm not the biggest fan of either to be honest. As for the second one — the defense looks a bit shaky, but other than that it's not bad at all!
Think Neeskens played RB occasionally and Rijkaard could drop if needed, though wouldn't give a natural RB. Or could drop Stam for Suurbier (harsh as I rate Stam) and play Rijkaard as CH for a proper back 4.
Imo, the question should be, "Does any other Dutch player come anywhere near Cruyff?".
Yes it should for the simple fact that it has people discussing all these brilliant Dutch players, Cruyff’s unanimous vote notwithstanding. I love threads like this.
I’d actually love a thread of national team all-time 11s. From the obvious (Brazil, England, France, etc.) to the less so, yet still compelling (Hungary, former Yugoslavia, Poland, etc.)Cruyff is quite a bit ahead of the chasing pack, for his pedigree as a player and the magisterial influence he had on Dutch football — similar situation to Brazil or Germany, where Pelé and Beckenbauer were, are, and probably always will be the benchmarks and ahead of the pretenders to their throne (i.e. Ronaldo, Zico, Müller, Garrincha, Matthäus and so forth). If I had to rank the rest...
Honorable mention: Willem van Hanegem, if only to make sure that Feyenoord supporting passersby don't feel left out.
- Marco van Basten
- Frank Rijkaard > Ruud Gullit
- Johan Neeskens > Ruud Krol
- Dennis Bergkamp
- Arjen Robben > Rob Rensenbrink
All-Time XI...
van Basten
Keizer — Cruyff — Gullit
Davids — Neeskens
Rijkaard
Krol — Koeman — Stam
van der Sar
Cruyff won 3 CL and 10 league titles.How many CLs / Premier Leagues did your Cruyffs and Gullits win, though?
Raimond, though
Exactly! But for some reason I can’t access that thread
Me neither. Maybe as it's too old or something.
This talk of it not being close is underrating Van Basten to the extreme. I'm genuinely shocked by this thread.
I put van Nistelrooy in originally, but then swapped him with Bergkamp — he had played in a three at Ajax with great success and Robben's runs should be a great match for Bergkamp's through-balls.
It's Netherlands, why do you need a proper back 4 when you can do Cruyff's/van Gaal's diamond?
Especially since Neeskens and Davids are both going to cover for their fullbacks/side backs.Is it really that shocking, though? I mean, van Basten is definitely up there with Müller as the best European striker, like a one man attack in Serie A and a perfect amalgamation of physique, technique, intelligence and tactical thoroughness — maybe even the best depending on what characteristics one prioritizes, as well as one of the dozen or so greatest footballers irrespective of position. Not many would contest his indubitable historic standing.
Now that's a team you'd pay good money to watch.
Agreed that the right-back position is their weakest and hence the workarounds (either a back 3 without wing-backs or a 4 with Stam or Neeskens there). If playing a back 4 - and there's something intrinsically Dutch about the 4-3-3 - I'd prefer shifting either of those players there as they have high quality alternatives in their substantive positions, for example:
Yeah, like that team, I was thinking Robben probably deserved a shout too. Fair play, never liked him when here but the quality/length of his career can't be argued with... grown on me.
Cheers! That first thread is amazing - learned so much reading it.
Yeah, creating a Dutch 11 but not using 4-3-3 seems almost contradictory. I mean, you work with what you've got, of course, but 4-3-3 is just so big in the Netherlands. At RB, how about Reiziger? Not quite world class I suppose, but still a strong choice.
I am too young for Cruyff to compare. All I will say is the Van Basten in his last 2/3years at AC Milan before the injury is one of the best players in any position I have ever seen and only fat Ronaldo was a better striker all round. Romario probably the best finisher I have seen inside the box, Van Basten was just the best finisher.
Same - I think the last time I did this XI he wasn't in my team, but in fairness he offers something a little bit different and helps to stretch the play. That Dutch versatility gives a lot of options to move players around as so many of them are so class in multiple positions.
Aye Reiziger is probably my favourite natural right-back the Dutch have had. Good physical qualities and decent enough on the ball.
