Liver_bird
Full Member
Would have to be Pope. No idea how he'll do outside the Burnley system though. Pickford is too error prone atm and isn't even that good. Butland is one of those that looks solid but statistically he's almost as bad as Hart.
Picking a keeper off save percentage is pretty pointless, it tells you nothing of the quality of shots faced.Most PL clean sheets this season
Clean sheets (Save %)
David de Gea 15 (81%)
Thibaut Courtois 13 (68%)
Ederson 13 (71%)
Hugo Lloris 13 (70%)
Petr Cech 9 (62%)
Nick Pope 9 (79%)
Counterproductive when he selects a double pivot of Henderson and Dier to be the next phase of midfield. Awful to watch.I think with Pickford you have to look beyond the errors (has he really been chucking them in every week).
Southgate is claiming England will play from the back at this world cup. Pickford is the best ball playing keeper of the options, his kicking is generally good from pass backs. From what I've seen Butland's kicking and composure under pressure isn't all that.
Obviously Hart got kicked out of Man. City for lacking these skills.
Bit of a bump, maybe thread title could change to be who should be England number 1?Tom Heaton or Angus Gunn
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Yeah, after seeing that earlier it got me thinking about how Butland went from being the most coveted young keeper in England to potentially going down with Stoke.Apologies for the long random bump but couldn't find a Butland thread so this will have to do.
He conceded this tonight:
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People talk about Joe Hart but this guy hasn't half had a massive decline aswell although I never thought he was as good as being hyped (after Stoke relegation he was getting linked with Chelsea and Liverpool which seems laughable now).
Apologies for the long random bump but couldn't find a Butland thread so this will have to do.
He conceded this tonight:
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People talk about Joe Hart but this guy hasn't half had a massive decline aswell although I never thought he was as good as being hyped (after Stoke relegation he was getting linked with Chelsea and Liverpool which seems laughable now).
I'm going to put this out there, he wasn't that good in the first place. My best mate at the time was a Birmingham fan and he was making far too many errors even then. He had one season where he overperformed his level (think it was 15/16) but that was it.Yeah, after seeing that earlier it got me thinking about how Butland went from being the most coveted young keeper in England to potentially going down with Stoke.
Possibly. I suppose when you aren't watching certain teams game after game you rely on the word on the street to appraise players, and once you've heard something you repeat it along with everyone else until it becomes gospel.I'm going to put this out there, he wasn't that good in the first place. My best mate at the time was a Birmingham fan and he was making far too many errors even then. He had one season where he overperformed his level (think it was 15/16) but that was it.
For all of Pickford's feck up's at club level he's (so far) done fine for England. Unless/until that changes he'll keep his place and rightly so.I think neither of Pickford, Henderson or Pope has proved to be an outstanding candidate. Each of them has a unique factor which is going in their favor. Pickford had a good WC and is the default No.1 for now. Henderson seems like the highest potential among the three but has only one top flight season under his belt. Also, has no experience in performing in extremely high pressure environment. Pope has been the most consistent of the three in the previous three years (even though he missed the previous one completely) and is leading the clean sheet charts this season.
Considering that their may not be a lot of international football between now and till the start of Euros, Pickford might end up clinging to his place.
I think The Olympics in 2012 is what got him on the hype train, i must admit i probably wouldn't have been any the wiser either if i didn't watch Birmingham a fair bit for the season that followed. I remember the goal he conceded at 0:57 on the below vid particularly sticking out.Possibly. I suppose when you aren't watching certain teams game after game you rely on the word on the street to appraise players, and once you've heard something you repeat it along with everyone else until it becomes gospel.
That was very poor. I have (I think ) seen him play well for Stoke but I don't doubt I was caught on a hype train thinking he'd be England's number one and fighting for a place at Chelsea these past few years.I think The Olympics in 2012 is what got him on the hype train, i must admit i probably wouldn't have been any the wiser either if i didn't watch Birmingham a fair bit for the season that followed. I remember the goal he conceded at 0:57 on the below vid particularly sticking out.
Yep Clarke was the manager at that point and Zigic was still holding on. The former was a beyond poor manager though, did okay at Huddersfield but never hit a win percentage above 30% from Birmingham onwards, infact at Blackpool his win ratio was 9.1% (for perspective Paul Jewell's ratio at Derby was just over double that)That was very poor. I have (I think ) seen him play well for Stoke but I don't doubt I was caught on a hype train thinking he'd be England's number one and fighting for a place at Chelsea these past few years.
Also in that video I heard mentions of Lee Clark (a big lower-league manager destined for great things who just left Blyth Spartans by mutual consent), and Nikola Zigic.
has been this season but needs to not catch the curse of flapping and chucking it into his own net when he plays for the national teamHenderson is Englands best keeper.
He reminds me of Ben Foster. Can have a game where he's unbeatable so looks good on the highlights reel but also felt he's weak on crosses (according to Stoke forum he's glued to his goalline most games) and his kicking is pretty poor which is what the elite clubs look for in terms of starting off attacks.Possibly. I suppose when you aren't watching certain teams game after game you rely on the word on the street to appraise players, and once you've heard something you repeat it along with everyone else until it becomes gospel.
Yes Heaton's a solid keeper. He was always thought high of at United, even though he didn't get a chance in the first team, and was good once he established himself at Burnley.He reminds me of Ben Foster. Can have a game where he's unbeatable so looks good on the highlights reel but also felt he's weak on crosses (according to Stoke forum he's glued to his goalline most games) and his kicking is pretty poor which is what the elite clubs look for in terms of starting off attacks.
We were linked to him for 20m but signed Tom Heaton for 7m instead who's a superior keeper. Thought a Bournemouth or Crystal Palace might've been interested.
Pretty bizzare that all 3 of England's main Goalkeepers (Hart, Butland & Forster) back in 2016 have had significant career declines over the last 4 years. So much so that if you told someone in 2016 that by the next Euros, Preston North End's 1st Choice GK (Pickford), Grimsby Towns 2nd Choice GK (Henderson) & Burnley's 2nd Choice GK (Pope) will all be England's Main GK's by the next Euros, no one would have believed you, including myself...Apologies for the long random bump but couldn't find a Butland thread so this will have to do.
He conceded this tonight:
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People talk about Joe Hart but this guy hasn't half had a massive decline aswell although I never thought he was as good as being hyped (after Stoke relegation he was getting linked with Chelsea and Liverpool which seems laughable now).
Honestly other than Hart between 2012-2016 (and even he struggled to keep Butland on the bench at times), I don't think we have had an outstanding candidate for England No.1 since Seaman began to decline in 2002. Regardless while I feel that both Pope & Henderson are both better than Pickford; so long as he avoid's letting England down in a Major Tounement, I would agree that I can't see him being dropped anytime soon.I think neither of Pickford, Henderson or Pope has proved to be an outstanding candidate. Each of them has a unique factor which is going in their favor. Pickford had a good WC and is the default No.1 for now. Henderson seems like the highest potential among the three but has only one top flight season under his belt. Also, has no experience in performing in extremely high pressure environment. Pope has been the most consistent of the three in the previous three years (even though he missed the previous one completely) and is leading the clean sheet charts this season.
Considering that their may not be a lot of international football between now and till the start of Euros, Pickford might end up clinging to his place.
He’s riding a hype train a bit due to being a United keeper. Pope is at the least fashionable team in the PL, but he’s easily better for me.Henderson is Englands best keeper.