Who should manage us next?

Red Pumpkin said:
I view him as a miserable character, grumpy and obnoxious, but I'm quite sure he actually knows what to do (unlike say Rooney). In Xavis case there is a solution: almost a Two Manager System with one Players Manager (Human side) and one Tactical Manager (Xavi).

Also I believe Xavi is way to set on the Tiki Taka principles and has refused to evolve with the times. Could still work quite well but also has been studied to death by now. So yeah, overall, best stay clear instead.
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Rag and Bone Man
 
Ludens the Red said:
Erm, I didn’t put those names forward, at all. In fact I’ve previously said I wouldn’t actually want Glasner. I think you’ve completely missed the point of my post.
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Sorry. Try me again … I must have missed it
 
When you look at our history nearly all our trophies were won under the management of Sir Matt Busy and Sir Alex Ferguson. We would certainly had won more under Sir Matt but for the Munich tragedy.

So between them they managed United for around 48 years and they won numerous league titles and cup competitions, and in-between we have had 13 managers in 30 years who accomplished between them 8 trophies but no league titles. Without the brilliance of Busby and Ferguson we would be a very average club
 
I'd keep Amorim and sack both Wilcox and Vivell. The issue here is quite obviously recruitment. And they haven't recruited for a set way of playing the game and it was obvious to predict that we would encounter the same problems that we've seen occurring for sometime now.

It doesn't matter who the manager is if the recruitment fails to address the key issues in the team which are quite obviously restricting us as far as playing a more proactive attacking brand of football.
 
Adnan said:
I'd keep Amorim and sack both Wilcox and Vivell. The issue here is quite obviously recruitment. And they haven't recruited for a set way of playing the game and it was obvious to predict that we would encounter the same problems that we've seen occurring for sometime now.

It doesn't matter who the manager is if the recruitment fails to address the key issues in the team which are quite obviously restricting us as far as playing a more proactive attacking brand of football.
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I don't think Wilcox and Vivell have the wage budget to go for the top players. Osimhen and Donnarumma would have been far less risky signings than Sesko and Lammens with not much difference in the transfer fees.
 
P0GBA said:
I don't think Wilcox and Vivell have the wage budget to go for the top players. Osimhen and Donnarumma would have been far less risky signings than Sesko and Lammens with not much difference in the transfer fees.
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I don't think our issue is Sesko or Lammens. Our issue quite simply was that we have struggled to build play against well coordinated high pressing schemes which forces the manager(s) to go direct far too often due to the inability of our midfield to receive the pass against the oppositions high pressing tactics hence we bypass the midfield.

That in-turn results in us playing in transitions far too much and we are heavily reliant on bypassing the midfield and going direct. So prioritising the midfield with players who can fill the gaps as far as helping us play a more varied proactive attacking game was absolutely necessary and wouldve allowed us the ability to play in a higher line whilst having a high volume of players committed into the opponent's half. We've completely neglected this and you have to ask the question that what type of football is Wilcox directing us towards. The one midfielder he did reportedly push for (Ugarte) was completely ill suited to helping us achieve the above goal of creating a more proactive attacking system of play.

Not once post Fergie, have we had a team from the back, into midfield and across the front line where I thought, yes, this team on paper can build up play from the back, into midfield and implement a higher line while maintaining compactness which will result in a effective high press out of possession. This team even after they've spent a vast amount of money still has those problems and it's a issue that resides within the sporting boardroom. None of our midfielders or wingbacks are good enough to propel us towards being a more dominant team within the formation being utilised. So I'm not sure why the chaps in suits have even brought in a manager who utilises a specific formation and then dreadfully failed him as far as the players they've bought.
 
Adnan said:
I'd keep Amorim and sack both Wilcox and Vivell. The issue here is quite obviously recruitment. And they haven't recruited for a set way of playing the game and it was obvious to predict that we would encounter the same problems that we've seen occurring for sometime now.

It doesn't matter who the manager is if the recruitment fails to address the key issues in the team which are quite obviously restricting us as far as playing a more proactive attacking brand of football.
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Well, you can't recruit players for one specific style especially for someone like Ruben whose style is as rare as you can see in PL. So they will have find a middle ground where players can suit multiple styles.

So may be the issue is, we shouldn't have gone for Ruben and just like Liverpool thought his style isnt right for them, we should have gone for someone who suited our players.
 
bond19821982 said:
Well, you can't recruit players for one specific style especially for someone like Ruben whose style is as rare as you can see in PL. So they will have find a middle ground where players can suit multiple styles.

So may be the issue is, we shouldn't have gone for Ruben and just like Liverpool thought his style isnt right for them, we should have gone for someone who suited our players.
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It's not recruiting for one style. When you sign players for a specific purpose where the aim is to sacrifice defensive stability for goals and setup to play the game in the opponents half, you recruit for all eventualities. Because it's easier to defend deep in a lower block in comparison to defending high up the pitch in a higher line where your CBs and deeper mids have to control the game in-possession as well as control the game against the oppositions transitions due to the space between our own last line and our GK.

The most important players are your CBs and deeper midfielders in this type of approach and then the wingbacks. Because if the CBs and midfielders don't have the ability progress the ball via evading, resisting pressure along with not being able to manage space in a higher line, then the idea is going to fail to materialize on the pitch no matter what formation is being utilised.
 
Ludens the Red said:
There’s a lot of strange glass half full, disingenuous logic being applied here.
“Tested elite manager”. I don’t think any club other than Real Madrid and Manchester City have ran this way over the last decade or so.

Arsenal gambled on Arteta, Chelsea gambled on Maresca, Spurs a bit further back on Poch. Liverpool gambled on Slot.

“Tested elite managers” aren’t readily available.

I’d argue continuing with Amorim is a bigger risk based on the sample size of his reign so far which at this point is the worse in the clubs history. What you therefore say is a contradiction in itself to suggest staying with Amorim is the safer course.
It’s the equivalent of me buying a second hand car and it breaking down every other week (and appearing to be the worse car I’ve ever had) but then refusing to buy a new second hand car because it might also break down a lot.

Perhaps some consideration with Glasner and the possession Palace posses has a little to do with tools at his disposal, his tactical flexibility and understanding of the best way to win football matches as a football manager?? Something Amorim does not understand the concept of.
He is officially the greatest manager in Crystal Palace’s history, fact. Simultaneously Ruben Amorim is the worse in Uniteds..

Comparing Amorims win percentage at Manchester United with the tools at his disposal to that of Iraola and the tools he has at Bournemouth is bizarre logic and also completely disingenuous.
Bournemouth also lost several of their best players at the start of the season. United didn’t.
Eye test will tell you Bournemouth play better football than Manchester United despite not having anywhere the same quality of individual player.
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I can better define my points if it makes it clearer for you.

Tuchel post World Cup is a tested top-level manager. Zidane who is itching to get back into club football is a tested top level manager. So would be Xavi, Brendan Rodgers and Thiago Motta. All of these managers have won at the top level for a top club. Every year it seems the football world chases the "next hot thing" and most of them don't simply pan out. We can go back as far as Andres Villas-Bollas at Chelsea to see this. Heck even Arsenal appointed Unai Emery who was winning back to back to back Europa leagues and was tipped to be another hot thing. My point is we have wasted so many years chasing things that just didn't work out. Get the infrastructure of the club settled like is happening and then move forward. Amorim isn't nearly as bad as what some people think.

Regarding your sample size, you can slice it however you want to fit the narrative you are trying to tell.

Amorim for his united Career - P56 W22 L20 D14 - 39% Win Rate - 1.42 pts / match Agree not Good Enough
Amorim this season - P13 W6 D3 L4 - 46% win Rate - 1.62 pts/match - not bad considering the start of the season but not good enough for the title

Which is the real manager?

Regarding Glasner - I remember, like others, when we had Louis Van Gaal. We won a trophy and finished 4th and 5th and all everyone remembers is how bad the football is. Same thing for Glasner. There is an expectation that comes with being a Manchester United and thats winning, scoring goals, and entertaining the fans. Glasner doesn't tick enough boxes for me.

Iraola - Just the next overhyped manager for me. He has finished 12th, 9th, and now sits 14th. This season they have scored 21 (same as us) and conceeded 24 playing 1 more game. His managerial ppm average at Bournemouth is 1.41 which is equivalent as Ruben Amorim's career at Manchester United. So to use your car anology, why replace a broken car with another broken car.
 
Keep Amorim. We need to sort out our recruitment first.

Mbeumo and Cunha, proven, good signings. No problem here.

Lammens and Sesko, high potential but need time to develop.

We still need 2 new midfielders in Anderson and Baleba to replace/rotate with Bruno and Casemeiro (in his last legs). 1 new LWB in the mould of Amad. 1 top CB who can dictate play from the back and good in aerial duels. 1 proven striker to rotate with Sesko.

Hence, we still need at least 5 top signings (not sure we have the funds) to build a competitive team for PL and CL.
 
After a great start to the season Iraola stock currently plummeting. No wins and just one point from the last five games.

He may well get things back on track but it's certainly hit his chances of getting interest from bigger clubs just at the moment.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Keep Amorim. We need to sort out our recruitment first.

Mbeumo and Cunha, proven, good signings. No problem here.

Lammens and Sesko, high potential but need time to develop.

We still need 2 new midfielders in Anderson and Baleba to replace/rotate with Bruno and Casemeiro (in his last legs). 1 new LWB in the mould of Amad. 1 top CB who can dictate play from the back and good in aerial duels. 1 proven striker to rotate with Sesko.

Hence, we still need at least 5 top signings (not sure we have the funds) to build a competitive team for PL and CL.
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Problem with this thinking is that we have to recruit players that suit to amorims system, meaning when we sacked him we are left with 2 bad options: 1. Find another manager who play 3 ATB or 2. Overhaul the squad again.
 
peller said:
Problem with this thinking is that we have to recruit players that suit to amorims system, meaning when we sacked him we are left with 2 bad options: 1. Find another manager who play 3 ATB or 2. Overhaul the squad again.
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Not really, regardless of manager.

1) We need proper CM/DM who can dictate play especially in PL. Casemeiro is in his last legs. Bruno is a 10. Mainoo is young and developing. Ugarte is Ugarte. We need 2 PL proven players here.

2. We also need an established ST. Zirkzee and Sesko are both young and inexperienced. They need someone to lead and take away pressure from them especially if we want to challenge for PL and CL.

3. We need a proper LWB or LB (whatever you called it) with quality in attacking. Someone like Evra, Shaw, Irwin and even Amad who are good in both defence and attack.

4. For CB, whether you want to admit it or not, Maguire is still the best CB to dictate play from the deep. Therein lies the problem where he is at the wrong side of 30s and the contract is ending. He is also a threat in attack. We need someone (hopefully much better) to replace him.
 
So many of our problems would be solved instantly if Ruben showed more flexibility with his tactics, given the players he actually has. But even so we’re somehow, incredibly, not far off the top four despite our dire play between the boxes.
 
1. Howe.
2. Carrick caretaker to buy time.
3. Iraola (hoping his magic can scale up).
 
Klean said:
Tuchel post World Cup is a tested top-level manager. Zidane who is itching to get back into club football is a tested top level manager. So would be Xavi, Brendan Rodgers and Thiago Motta. All of these managers have won at the top level for a top club. Every year it seems the football world chases the "next hot thing" and most of them don't simply pan out. We can go back as far as Andres Villas-Bollas at Chelsea to see this. Heck even Arsenal appointed Unai Emery who was winning back to back to back Europa leagues and was tipped to be another hot thing. My point is we have wasted so many years chasing things that just didn't work out. Get the infrastructure of the club settled like is happening and then move forward. Amorim isn't nearly as bad as what some people think.
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Zidane isn’t itching for club football at all, he wants the France job. He is waiting for it for years now, probably will get it after the world cup.

Why is Xavi a tested top level manager? Because he won in Spain? How would he do in the Premier league, that’s unknown.

So you really think Brendan Rodgers and Thiago Motta are tested top level managers? Would you want them at United?

Why was Emery the next best thing and not a top level manager when Arsenal appointed him? He did more than Rodgers and Motta before he joined Arsenal.

Maybe the definition for a tested top level manager isn’t that easy. Van Gaal and Mourinho were tested top level managers, but wrong timing.

Agree with you that maybe Amorim isn’t that bad, although I’m not a big fan yet and the progression is so feck slow, with so many terrible games.
 
We have to play with the ball. That's not Glasner or Iraola strengths. That won't work. Emery coaches teams well to play with the ball. He may not be elite elite...but I think he is the best step up and from there maybe try for Enrique.

I don't think we go anywhere with Amorim. Hopefully I'm wrong
 
Amsterdam Devil said:
Zidane isn’t itching for club football at all, he wants the France job. He is waiting for it for years now, probably will get it after the world cup.

Why is Xavi a tested top level manager? Because he won in Spain? How would he do in the Premier league, that’s unknown.

So you really think Brendan Rodgers and Thiago Motta are tested top level managers? Would you want them at United?

Why was Emery the next best thing and not a top level manager when Arsenal appointed him? He did more than Rodgers and Motta before he joined Arsenal.

Maybe the definition for a tested top level manager isn’t that easy. Van Gaal and Mourinho were tested top level managers, but wrong timing.

Agree with you that maybe Amorim isn’t that bad, although I’m not a big fan yet and the progression is so feck slow, with so many terrible games.
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I don't disagree with any of your assessments about managers. Everything is subjective.

In my opinion i think a constant chopping and changing hurts the team in the long run. How many players do we have from ETH reign, that are now going to be sold. Let's at least give Amorim another 2 windows. I think he can be the guy to reset but maybe not the guy to take us to the top if that makes sense at all.
 
Has to be Emery, phenomenal job with villa
 
peller said:
Problem with this thinking is that we have to recruit players that suit to amorims system, meaning when we sacked him we are left with 2 bad options: 1. Find another manager who play 3 ATB or 2. Overhaul the squad again.
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Which of the players we have bought wouldn't fit other systems?
 
Amsterdam Devil said:
Zidane isn’t itching for club football at all, he wants the France job. He is waiting for it for years now, probably will get it after the world cup.

Why is Xavi a tested top level manager? Because he won in Spain? How would he do in the Premier league, that’s unknown.

So you really think Brendan Rodgers and Thiago Motta are tested top level managers? Would you want them at United?

Why was Emery the next best thing and not a top level manager when Arsenal appointed him? He did more than Rodgers and Motta before he joined Arsenal.

Maybe the definition for a tested top level manager isn’t that easy. Van Gaal and Mourinho were tested top level managers, but wrong timing.

Agree with you that maybe Amorim isn’t that bad, although I’m not a big fan yet and the progression is so feck slow, with so many terrible games.
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I'm my not sure any are fully tested top managers tbh.
 
At this point I will take a stick in a tracksuit. At least it won't make terrible subs
 
reddevilchennai said:
Amorim needs to go regardless of who is available
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Agreed. But the next manager will still be shit. Not as shit, but still shit. We’ll never have a good enough manager again. I will not settle for Mr Blobby or an average mid table PL manager. That would be lowering standards (as would keeping the current manager). We need someone who is at the top of his game.
 
Anyone who thinks this guy is good enough for United lacks critical thinking. The next guy may not be good enough, so what? Why continue with someone we know is taking us nowhere. We carry on until we find the guy who can.
 
Matt Busby would get more out of this team and he's been dead for 31 years.
 
Couldn't care less as long as it's soon. Why do we always get some negative coward of a manager? Amorim managing us is like playing with two men down.

Every move he makes sets us back
 
Get an interim in asap - we can somehow still salvage something from this season. Been saying it for ages, but playing with no manager would improve us instantly.
 
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