Who/what in your opinion is currently holding the club back?

[altodevil]

Far off the pace in the league. Diminishing reputation in the continent. No effective/decisive plan of improvement this summer.

No this isn't another having a moan thread, I'd like to think the above we can all agree on. anyway.

I am just interested in folks opinion on the question in the thread title:

Who/what do you think is holding the club back?

i.e What is the main contributor to our recent lack of success and loss of club stature?

 

[Siddharth]

Toxic online fandom.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Ed Woodward, The Glazers and their collective lack of knowledge in running a successful football club without David Gill and Sir Alex.

It’s simple. 7 years later and still no director of football installed says it all.

 

[romufc]

The Glazers.

If you are not doing well, you look at your staff, who are hired by the owners. Initially, they thought maybe it is the managers but we have had 4 managers with no improvement.

It is clear the owners are holding the club back with a lack of structure.

 

[Sky1981]

Our own romanticism.

SAF has been the best thing that happened to this club, and the reason why I supported United in the first place. But his 26 years at the helm created a huge gap that needs to be closed down once the great man left. (note I wouldn't trade SAF for anything, but it is what it is)

 

[Wumminator]

We had shit managers who spent a load of money on shit players.

We also have fans who see us improving in Europe/Cups/League position as 'falling reputation'

 

[romufc]

Toxic online fandom.

Do fans make footballing decisions for the club?

Did the fans decide to pay DDG the money he is on?

Did the fans decide that we should spend money on Sanchez?

Did the fans decide that Perreira, Jones to get a contract?

 

[glazed]

The owners' strategy of maximising profit, with on the field success as a secondary consideration.

My theory is that the financial sweet spot is finishing fourth in the league and getting to Champions' League last 16. The cost of reliably doing better than that isn't worth the financial reward.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Glazers and Woodward. They’re the only people who can do something about our awful recruitment structure.

Every season we start the window with big names and rumours. Not once have we shown that 1) We have a plan 2) We can execute it efficiently

When we sell, we sell for a pittance. When we buy, there’s no amount that’s high enough for us. When a manager needs to be let go, we wait till the season is ruined. There is no evidence that anyone is making any efforts to improve the situation. It is an absolute shame.

 

[Dan_F]

The Glazers.

Woodward reports to them, therefore they are accountable for his mistakes.

 

[Leftback99]

Far off the pace in the league. Diminishing reputation in the continent. No effective/decisive plan of improvement this summer.

No this isn't another having a moan thread, I'd like to think the above we can all agree on. anyway.

I am just interested in folks opinion on the question in the thread title:

Who/what do you think is holding the club back?

i.e What is the main contributor to our recent lack of success and loss of club stature?

Until we see where we're at at the end of the transfer window it is just another moan thread. Last season was the most promising since SAF.

We're where we're at because we wasted an absolute fortune on bad decisions up until last year. We've had money, blown it and now we're paying the price, there's not an endless pot.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

A lack of modern footballing structure at the club, which leads to poor/overpriced transfer business and coaching not up to elite standards.

 

[youngrell]

We seem to lack foresight. Always planning for the here and now rather than following a strong, coherent vision.

We have improved on this aspect since Ole took charge, showing better planning for the type of players we need but still seem miles behind implementing such plans in good time. It doesn't appear that we have been working on deals for our targets over the months prior to the window opening, which was quite easy to do as the squad requirements have been glaring for all to see all season long.

Even if we get our targets in before the window closes, it hamstrings Ole somewhat as we will start the season with players who are less up to speed. If we don't get them, we may as well either let Ole go or resign ourselves for a season of regression. All his hard work can easily be undone in a flash.

 

[glazed]

The Glazers.

Woodward reports to them, therefore they are accountable for his mistakes.

I believe it's a misconception to think these are mistakes. Woodward executes a strategy - he prefers young players with resale value or old players on free transfers. He will deviate from this but that's his preference. If a manager makes top four, he's safe. If he does not, he is sacked.

They are footballing mistakes, but financially sound decisions if your goal is making money.

 

[Hound Dog]

There is nothing that can convince me that the strategy of the club is not to simply aim for CL qualification.

Given that, I would say that nothing is holding United back, they are performing as expected, 3 CL qualifications in 4 years, get in.

 

[BluesJr]

Romanticism and the owners.

 

[Red_toad]

I believe it's a misconception to think these are mistakes. Woodward executes a strategy - he prefers young players with resale value or old players on free transfers. He will deviate from this but that's his preference. If a manager makes top four, he's safe. If he does not, he is sacked.

They are footballing mistakes, but financially sound decisions if your goal is making money.

Please explain Bruno & Harry, neither we’re cheap nor would we be able to sell in a few years for greater value. Prior to that Mata & Matic, I don’t see the theme you do...

back on thread, the owners, they have the final say in everything, so not challenging for major honours since SAF left is on them.

 

[R'hllor]

Fans, those that dont leech onto manager blindly and paint it as a proper support for the club, they are the problem, moaning and creating negative atmosphere by having certain level of expectations and demands.

 

[Marcus]

The fact that we are listed on the stock exchange.

 

[Roane]

SAF.

As much as we love the man, and he was a genius, he left is with a league winning squad that should never have and a new manager who... Well should never have

We have been playing catch up since

Ole has bought a bit of calm back and seems to have steadied the ship.

I do believe it was a 3 year plan hence Oles contract.

We have slowly git the players but will we get a new manager after Oles tenure or will it be Ole for the future?

 

[Zen86]

5 or 6 years of bad decisions after SAF retired. We’re still paying for it, these things don’t just get solved overnight.

 

[RK]

Toxic online fandom.

I agree.

Ideally we'd enjoy supporting the team, regardless of how many trophies we win.
Some fans cannot cope without constant success. Unfortunately they spoil it for the rest of us.

 

[jackal&hyde]

We had shit managers who spent a load of money on shit players.

We also have fans who see us improving in Europe/Cups/League position as 'falling reputation'

This. Bad buys, much like Barcelona actually.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Toxic online fandom.

The damn yanks and chinless chucky the wonder wanker from surrey. The primary concern they have is profit, and not for the sake of reinvesting it into the club, but to get richer themselves. We arent, and havent been a football club for a long time, we are a business whos theatre of operations just coincidentally happens to be football. If they could make more money turning us into a netball team it would happen tomorrow.

 

[MileStolar]

We've shown clear signs of improvement over last year, although more so individually through players rather than as a team. After 7 years we're finally on the verge of becoming challengers to the best teams in the country, as we've made some good progress in the last year.

But!

Instead of using our upwards trajectory to our advantage and improving our squad this summer, we seem likely to fall behind again, as we see Chelsea having an overhauling window and the likes of spurs and arsenal more likely to get better than sink further.
We haven't acquired a single player, and it looks like we're going to end up panic buying our way out of this mess of a window. There's still time admittedly and that's our straw to clutch at, but it doesn't look as promising as we thought couple of months ago.

So for me it's the board, as I can see us having a worse season than this past one simply because our depth is thin and our competition is going to get better.

If Ole gets a sack next year, the ones to blame would be the ones who didn't provide him tools to finish what he started.

 

[kafta]

I'm not sure the owners would classify the club's current situation as being held back

Off the field, they are doing very well with the commercial aspect

In the administration, it is clear the club lacks a modern football structure that would allow it to perform better on the pitch. However, the current configuration will mean transfer spending is in their hands and that means less spending. So obviously, they are happy with our transfer activity. If this was bothering them, it would've been fixed as it isn't rocket science.

On the pitch, i don't think they are really interested in the club's performances, its trophy haul, or football in general.

In my opinion, the owners are holding us back because what they want from the club is not aligned with the principles that made Manchester United a giant. We as fans want success and a clear club identity. They as owners want money and the premier league TV deals and the club's branding ensure that at least in the short term, money is not directly linked to success.

 

[hubbuh]

As mentioned a combination of a lack of a modern structure coupled with diabolical footballing decisions, both on and off the pitch.

There were murmurings last year at various points that the club had met with Angelo Henriquez, Ralf Ragnick and Ivan Campos. It’d be fascinating to know who was involved in the process and the reasons why the club opted against bringing someone in. It would suggest that there is a plan in place that none of them fitted into.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

We've spent over a billion since Fergie retired and got nowhere. Any other business would sack the entire senior management team and start again with such catastrophic failure. But they have allowed Woodward to continue when it's so evident he's out of his depth.

So the Glazers are culpable. Woodward isn't going to sack himself is he?

I think we have to come to terms with the fact we are finished as a club who wins major titles until they are forced to sell the club. If 1.2bn isn't enough for even one title challenge, let alone win one, then I think it's fair to say that its just not on the cards under these parasites.

If the fans continue to buy shirts and go to games we will be stuck in this endless loop for ages as yet. I gave my ticket up about 5 years ago and will never buy one again until they sell the club. I don't want to contribute to the Glazer kids fund anymore.

 

[Bazi]

As an outsider United's biggest shortcoming appears to be the inability to fill a certain percentage of your roster with smart and relatively cheap transfers. You have got to identify talent at the right time, take a bit of risk and with the right culture you too can have your own version of Gnabry, Kimmich, Coman and Davies for less than 50m €. There is never enough money to fill a core 18 men rotation just with big expensive signings.

 

[Mibabalou]

Winning isnt the goal for this football club, simple as that.

The owners are here to extract capital and they could care less if we come 4th every year.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Winning isnt the goal for this football club, simple as that.

The owners are here to extract capital and they could care less if we come 4th every year.

Spot on.

Id take no transfers and us coming 8th next season if it meant they sold the club.

7 years on since Fergie and 1.2bn spent and we aren't really any closer to a title. In fact we haven't even been in a single title race since he left. If 1.2bn can't muster one single title race then the signs are these guys just haven't got a clue what they are doing.

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

Those greedy glazers. The clubs value has increased by billions since their takeover, we should be dominating Europe not hoping and praying for fourth.

Imagine owning something that potentially makes hundreds of millions of people happy when it’s run properly but you deliberately prevent that from happening so that you can have some more money in your bank. Money that you’ll never spend because you are already ridiculously wealthy, you just enjoy having it for the sake of having it.

 

[MadDogg]

Terrible decision making at the top level. It really is as simple as that.

Say what you will about the Glazer's but we have spent an absolute fortune over the last 7 years, plus we have the second highest wage in the world (I wonder if we'll actually be the highest if Barca lose Messi and Suarez). The money we have spent means we SHOULD be competing at the absolute top. We've just spent that money atrociously. That doesn't mean I'm alleviating them of all blame. I don't think they are making the football decisions themselves, but if the people they have in place are failing at their job (which they blatantly are) then it ultimately comes back on the Glazer's for not recognising that and making changes.

The same thing continues further down the chain. We don't actually know for sure how much influence Woodward has on the football side of things. Is he making a lot of the decisions on manager and players himself and failing badly, or does he have somebody else under him making those decisions (or at least giving him most of the advice)? Even if it's the latter, it ultimately comes back on Woodward for not making changes after it happens year after year after year. Either he or Judge seem to be doing the contract negotiations, so that is quite blatantly a huge failure since we pay average squad players more than the stars of teams just below us, and also pay them so much we lose a significant amount of bargaining power for players we want to sell.

What really doesn't make sense to me is that the Glazer's seem happy enough with how things are. As I said, for the money we've spent we should be competing for the PL and CL each year which would then increase the value of the club and make it easier for us to get higher sponsorships and prizemoney. They are actively costing themselves money by allowing people who are shit at their job to continue making the football decisions. If they are happy with what Woodward is doing on the financial side of things then fine, keep him on as CEO. But they should be demanding to know why the hell things haven't been better on the field which would make our value even higher, and then demanding the changes to make it happen. They don't have to spend any more money than what they have, and indeed if we spend the money smartly we might even end up spending less.

 

[Renegade]

SAF.

As much as we love the man, and he was a genius, he left is with a league winning squad that should never have and a new manager who... Well should never have

We have been playing catch up since

Ole has bought a bit of calm back and seems to have steadied the ship.

I do believe it was a 3 year plan hence Oles contract.

We have slowly git the players but will we get a new manager after Oles tenure or will it be Ole for the future?

That was 7 years ago. The affects of one bad summer shouldn’t be felt now. We’ve “reset” plenty times since then. That team Fergie left wasn’t a mid table team. A decent manager builds on that team and replaces the ageing key players with their own players.

 

[VivaObertan]

A few other people have already said it and it's something I've been harping on about for a while now, but there's a clear disconnect in what defines success between operations and business.

Ops (aka 'the club') and its fans have ambitions of being the most successful football team. The business (aka the owners, finance, marketing etc.) don't care about being the best team, they care about staying relevant and commercially viable.

I feel I was naive to this up until Mourinho wasn't backed at the end of his second place finish season. That really opened my eyes to how the club is run. A recent post about our cycle of spend over the past 6 years "once we'd reached UCL" was also telling.

 

[r3idy]

Winning isnt the goal for this football club, simple as that.

The owners are here to extract capital and they could care less if we come 4th every year.

I was speaking with my son about this point last night. The issue is as fan's we are saying we should be challenging for titles, challenging for European trophies etc. What if that is not part of the Glazers game plan. They are running this place as a business. Maximise the assets and take profits. It's entirely conceivable that they are looking at it saying to get from 5th to 4th will cost us £xxxx and to get from 4th to 2nd will cost considerably more than £xxxxx so with that in mind, thanks but no thanks, you have approx £80m net spend each year.

So the direction the club is going and the direction that the fans want it to go in seem to be on different paths. From the Glazers point of view, I suspect their finances have took some major hits in recent months. All of their business rely on bums on seats (MUFC and Tampay Buc's) and feet through the door(Shopping Mall's) So our inactivity albeit hugely frustrating is not entirely surprising.

Longer term, looking through our lens and expectations the blame lies with Woodward, end of. Too many short term fixes with players and managers. Money burnt on fixing Moyes, LVG and Mourhinios mess. Club infrastructure compared to teams we should be rubbing shoulders with week in week out is until recently years behind.

With some of the moves we have made in recruiting upcoming talent from Europe its a positive step e.g. Mjebril etc. But this squad still needs refreshing with a sprinkle of exciting blockbuster youth and a little more experience. The ideal window would have been a Sancho and a two year younger Zlatan. The temptation when things will go bad this season through injury or burn out will be to peddle the line of we promote from within and we blood our youngsters etc. Watch some of this talent we have at our disposal thrown in at the deep end far too young.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

The Board. There is a general lack of vision on what we want to achieve and how.

But most of all I blame whoever is negotiating our signings and contract renewals. It just seems to drag on forever before we overpay for whoever we're signing.

Before Ole the quality of signings was poor, and we overpaid for them. The quality has improved since Ole took over, but we still overpaid. Don't even get me started on contract renewals.

The result is we have a mediocre squad on world class wages, and can't move them on to strengthen.

 

[Mibabalou]

The owners' strategy of maximising profit, with on the field success as a secondary consideration.

My theory is that the financial sweet spot is finishing fourth in the league and getting to Champions' League last 16. The cost of reliably doing better than that isn't worth the financial reward.

A few other people have already said it and it's something I've been harping on about for a while now, but there's a clear disconnect in what defines success between operations and business.

Ops (aka 'the club') and its fans have ambitions of being the most successful football team. The business (aka the owners, finance, marketing etc.) don't care about being the best team, they care about staying relevant and commercially viable.

I feel I was naive to this up until Mourinho wasn't backed at the end of his second place finish season. That really opened my eyes to how the club is run. A recent post about our cycle of spend over the past 6 years "once we'd reached UCL" was also telling.

Its a bit of a complex view but the key points seem to be in two camps.

1 - The club dont care about winning, only care about $

2 - Weve spent a boat load on players and thus should be competing, its just incompetence either woody / manager.


People dont realize it's the same issue. The Glazers know they can spunk a di maria or a Maguire when were out of CL because they know any investment will be paid back, which is has 100% since you see how much $$ they extracted. But the brass tacks means we have no long term planning or cohesive strategy to in time compete for titles since the goal is just top 4, keep the brand value high get more noddle sponsors.

Either camp 1 or 2 you fall in you need to realize its simple incompetence at running this.


RB Lepizig, and I know the model isnt perfect but reality is about a decade ago they were founded and are in the CL semi finals, imagine if you gave their braintrust our resources!

 

[spiriticon]

Woodward's dithering style in the transfer market
Hiring managers who simply don't get Manchester United.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Glazers and fans (despite this sounds harsh). Glazers don't have ambition to make us title challenger again. All they care is CL spot. At the same time fans are obsessed with long term projects and old days. So Glazers can put club's legend as a coach and fans are happy. That coach will put kids on the pitch and fans are happy again. Glazers have peace and nobody is making pressure on them.
Titles....who needs titles when we have our kids and our Ole.