Who you rate the highest Pep, Klopp or Tuchel?

[Bearded One]

I'd say he's already outperformed Pep. Winning a PL title & qualifying for 2 CL finals (winning 1) on the budget he's had compared to Pep is outstanding. Pep has vastly outperformed him in the minor cups but this is down to the squad depth he has. Klopp has nowhere near the depth to compete on 4 fronts so has to bin the minor cups.



Guardiola has himself said he needs high quality players to make his system work. He would have never made it work at Liverpool as he wouldn't have been given the budget that he required. It took Klopp a long time (in todays standards) to win a title. Even then it was only possible due to selling Coutinho so he could spend money on the different areas he needed to improve. Guardiola would throw his toys out of the pram if he was told he would have to sell to buy.







The PL is less competitive than it has ever been. It was actually more competitive during our period of dominance. We had SAF on one hand but on the other we were outspent by other clubs most seasons. We really shouldn't have won as much as we did when we were so consistently outmuscled financially. The managers in the PL during our dominant period were also so much better. You had the likes of Allardyce & Pulis at the smaller clubs & then peak Wenger Mourino et al at the bigger clubs.

The PL has become the top league due to the demise of Milan, Barca & Real due to their financial issues. The City & Liverpool of today would struggle against the Milan, Barca & Real of the 90's/2000's.

Every attempt to place Klopp’s record ahead of Pep’s is reliant on downplaying what Pep did at Barca, making them the most dominant team in a generation. That is not what a rookie manager would usually be associated with doing. There have been so many “new Messi’s” who never achieved their potential. The man guided Messi to become arguably the GOAT the way Fergie guided CR7 to become another GOAT. Stopped the influence of people that could derail him, made sure Messi overcame his recurring injuries and sent packing the more talented players he met. It all worked perfectly and it’s only with hindsight that we can say he took a generational team and conquered with them.

What Klopp has done with Liverpool is very impressive, mind but to place it over and above the best of Pep will take dishonesty on my part for me to concur to. City have got the money - Arab wealth - yes but even when you look at monies spent, because everyone knows City can afford most players, there is a sort of differentiated price system that works against them. I’d argue that if it was City that went for Diogo Jotta, they’d spend considerably more than Liverpool spent and if it was Liverpool that went for a Mendy for example, the price would be closer

The difference in quality of their teams is not considerably much but money spent tends to make it appear like this is the case. Klopp won the CL yes, but Di Matteo did as well. The deciding factor for me goes beyond who won what but if one person dominates the game for a considerable period, then that one deserves the acknowledgment. Pep has not just won, he has dominated wherever he’s been.

Conte won the league in his first season where Pep failed and Klopp didn’t exactly inspire but fast forward to few years Klopp has overtaken Conte. It’s not just a one off event but when you put consider all the events, not explaining some away, then the answer would not be far fetched imo.

 

[JDoe]

Agreed. Based on their careers thus far Pep is clearly an all-time great, while I'm not so sure about Klopp yet.

To further emphasize the point, Pep holds the points record in both Bundesliga (91) and Premier League (100), and he previously held the record in La Liga (99) which was eventually beaten by one point. That's best manager of all time stuff right there.

I'm not sure Klopp is quite at that level, though he is obviously extremely good himself.

This is wrong btw, Heynckes got 91 points during the treble season (80 GD). Pep's highest was 90 points next season (71 GD).

 

[Wolf1992]

I'd say he's already outperformed Pep. Winning a PL title & qualifying for 2 CL finals (winning 1) on the budget he's had compared to Pep is outstanding. Pep has vastly outperformed him in the minor cups but this is down to the squad depth he has. Klopp has nowhere near the depth to compete on 4 fronts so has to bin the minor cups.



Guardiola has himself said he needs high quality players to make his system work. He would have never made it work at Liverpool as he wouldn't have been given the budget that he required. It took Klopp a long time (in todays standards) to win a title. Even then it was only possible due to selling Coutinho so he could spend money on the different areas he needed to improve. Guardiola would throw his toys out of the pram if he was told he would have to sell to buy.







The PL is less competitive than it has ever been. It was actually more competitive during our period of dominance. We had SAF on one hand but on the other we were outspent by other clubs most seasons. We really shouldn't have won as much as we did when we were so consistently outmuscled financially. The managers in the PL during our dominant period were also so much better. You had the likes of Allardyce & Pulis at the smaller clubs & then peak Wenger Mourino et al at the bigger clubs.

The PL has become the top league due to the demise of Milan, Barca & Real due to their financial issues. The City & Liverpool of today would struggle against the Milan, Barca & Real of the 90's/2000's.

Indeed, but i believe that's how Football works in gemeral, to be on top someone has to struggle behind.
PL(and City's Pep for that matter) is dominating now due to the economical fall of Serie A and La Liga, this didn't happen in the 90s, as financially and sporting wise, those were the two strongest leagues back then.
No way Pep and Klopp would have managed in 90's PL due to financial reasons, and no way a talented german manager like Tuchel would be managing pre-Abramovich Chelsea either.

At the same time PL teams now have more money than ever, while Serie A and La Liga are struggling economically (unlike the 90's).

 

[BorisManUtd]

Pep and I think he'll become greatest ever when he retires.

 

[njred]

Pep is on a level of his own. He revolutionised Barca. Now he's done the same at City.

Ask yourself this. If your club couldn’t spend any money for the next season, who do you think would finish higher with your squad. Klopp or Pep?

 

[TheLiverBird]

The PL is less competitive than it has ever been. It was actually more competitive during our period of dominance. We had SAF on one hand but on the other we were outspent by other clubs most seasons. We really shouldn't have won as much as we did when we were so consistently outmuscled financially. The managers in the PL during our dominant period were also so much better. You had the likes of Allardyce & Pulis at the smaller clubs & then peak Wenger Mourino et al at the bigger clubs.

The PL has become the top league due to the demise of Milan, Barca & Real due to their financial issues. The City & Liverpool of today would struggle against the Milan, Barca & Real of the 90's/2000's.

I have to say I think this part of your post is totally untrue.

drastically in fact

You’ve got power house teams in Liverpool City and Chelsea

you’ve got several teams in a realistic fight for champions league spots, or spot should I say as it looks increasingly likely too 3 is secured, you’ve got Managers like Pep, Klopp, Tuchel and Conte in the league. Smashing Europe too.

The League has never been stronger imo

and I think it’s also ludicrous to say managers like Klopp and Pep with the teams they’ve got, would struggle against those sides in the 90’s-00’s, we all have our opinions, but I think that’s crazy

 

[Statue of Limitations]

For me in the PL it's SAF, Pep way behind but 2nd and Wenger third.

Then Klopp, Jose and the rest further back.

So, clearly Pep is way above Tuchel and Klippity.

 

[Bearded One]

Ask yourself this. If your club couldn’t spend any money for the next season, who do you think would finish higher with your squad. Klopp or Pep?

In my opinion both managers would have a mediocre performances because they are not super humans that just transform teams overnight. Both managers needed time at their respective clubs - Klopp moreso because clearly there was much more work to get his team challenging again. I don’t think there is any player from the old era at Liverpool now except Hendo which is not a criticism levies at the table of Klopp but an indication that he needed his kind of players to enable him implement his style and succeed and so did Pep.

The difference between the two is that whilst Pep chose a path that demanded instant success with accompanying support to make it happen - kinda high risk high reward, Klopp would normally go for a challenge where he can slowly and gradually mould his vision to the football club where there is little pressure to be sacked because the high ups know that this is a project. No system is better or worse, just different approaches. Most people don’t know that Abrahamovic and even Fiorentino Perez approached Klopp and he didn’t even think about it before saying no, I do because I am a huge fan and follower of his.

Another point is that Liverpool are smarter in the market because they did not have nearly as much riches as Abu Dhabi FC (just teasing ) but City’s past habits of spending poorly is still very much an issue for them for getting players at close to market value. When Liverpool sign a player, usually it’s at market value but not so much for City because in the past they were quite poor. While City have attempted to correct that behavior by walking away from come deals, the fact that every man and his dog knows that the can afford most players means that sellers want to add that extra premium - the city tax.

 

[Wolf1992]

I have to say I think this part of your post is totally untrue.

drastically in fact

You’ve got power house teams in Liverpool City and Chelsea

you’ve got several teams in a realistic fight for champions league spots, or spot should I say as it looks increasingly likely too 3 is secured, you’ve got Managers like Pep, Klopp, Tuchel and Conte in the league. Smashing Europe too.

The League has never been stronger imo

and I think it’s also ludicrous to say managers like Klopp and Pep with the teams they’ve got, would struggle against those sides in the 90’s-00’s, we all have our opinions, but I think that’s crazy

Indeed, EPL has never been this strong.

90's EPL was far behind Serie A and La Liga in terms of quality players and coaching (except SAF ofc).
I think what Pep is doing at City is as impressive as what SAF did, Pep is making the strongest league look like a farmers league.

 

[Son]

Pep has been the best manager in the world for a decade or more. His football is just another level when it works.

Klopp is an all time great too obvs but I feel Pep changed football far more than Klopp did. Klopp is more a natural reaction to Pep’s style which at one point was almost unbeatable in the early 10’s.

 

[gajender]

Pep has been the best manager in the world for a decade or more. His football is just another level when it works.

Klopp is an all time great too obvs but I feel Pep changed football far more than Klopp did. Klopp is more a natural reaction to Pep’s style which at one point was almost unbeatable in the early 10’s.

Is it though I mean no disrespect to Klopp but seriously all time great come on now .

 

[Borys]

Pep has been the best manager in the world for a decade or more. His football is just another level when it works.

Klopp is an all time great too obvs but I feel Pep changed football far more than Klopp did. Klopp is more a natural reaction to Pep’s style which at one point was almost unbeatable in the early 10’s.

I agree with that. Pep has built a few great sides, best team I've ever seen in Barca, then Bayern and City. One can always argue he was lucky to be working with all time great Messi and was always given money, but I guess if you take a closer look at each successful manager you will see quite a bit of pure luck here and there for each of them.

Can't help to imagine where would we be if Pep joined us after Fergie.

 

[Dumbstar]

I agree with that. Pep has built a few great sides, best team I've ever seen in Barca, then Bayern and City. One can always argue he was lucky to be working with all time great Messi and was always given money, but I guess if you take a closer look at each successful manager you will see quite a bit of pure luck here and there for each of them.

Can't help to imagine where would we be if Pep joined us after Fergie.

Man Utd would be on their 26th or 27th league title by now. Probably still on 3 CLs but playing some of the most beautiful football since his Barca days. Mancini and Pellegrini would be a distant second place at City and your noisy neighbours would remain forever silent.

Klopp may still have come along and wrestled one league title for us but it would still feel meaningless and shite.

I have to admit as an all time great manager Pep is by far the best at a certain club. Without any evidence yet, I can't say Klopp would or could match that same genius under the same circumstances. But I would love to see Klopp try one day, maybe at Bayern. And I would love to see Pep try his hand at a Klopp level club.

 

[Dancfc]

Man Utd would be on their 26th or 27th league title by now. Probably still on 3 CLs but playing some of the most beautiful football since his Barca days. Mancini and Pellegrini would be a distant second place at City and your noisy neighbours would remain forever silent.

Klopp may still have come along and wrestled one league title for us but it would still feel meaningless and shite.

I have to admit as an all time great manager Pep is by far the best at a certain club. Without any evidence yet, I can't say Klopp would or could match that same genius under the same circumstances. But I would love to see Klopp try one day, maybe at Bayern. And I would love to see Pep try his hand at a Klopp level club.

I think they are both perfect at what they do. Assuming they're still in relative obscurity for their standards (like you guys in 2015) Klopp's perfect next job would be Milan.

Pep I'm not sure where he goes next, on paper Real is a good fit but that will never happen for obvious reason's.

 

[gazbradley]

Man Utd would be on their 26th or 27th league title by now. Probably still on 3 CLs but playing some of the most beautiful football since his Barca days. Mancini and Pellegrini would be a distant second place at City and your noisy neighbours would remain forever silent.

Klopp may still have come along and wrestled one league title for us but it would still feel meaningless and shite.

I have to admit as an all time great manager Pep is by far the best at a certain club. Without any evidence yet, I can't say Klopp would or could match that same genius under the same circumstances. But I would love to see Klopp try one day, maybe at Bayern. And I would love to see Pep try his hand at a Klopp level club.

I really hope this happens even if it means I have to change my (maybe slightly biased) view Sir Alex is the best ever. I'd also like to think Pep would want to challenge himself in that way but I guess there's no reason he has to.
I'd be surprised if either struggled, Klopp for instance maintaining a Bayern german dominance and winning a Champions League or 2 or Pep re-establishing a giant club like Milan but as you say unless it happens it's not definitive.
Theres arguments for both coaches being more impressive than the other, and I slightly lean towards Klopp however if he doesn't win another major trophy with Liverpool and assuming its Pep beating him to titles it makes it more difficult to keep that way thinking.

 

[PepG]

Phillip Lahm called Guardiola "an offensive Sacchi" so going to AC Milan seems like a proper next move for the Catalan but Pep said himself a few months ago that his next job would be probably some national team.

 

[ryadmahrez]

It’s clearly Pep, by a mile. He revolutionized football in England. Everyone tries to play out from the back, at every level, tries to play more football and that is due to him. He is dominating the PL at its highest peak and all the while having an everlasting influence how the game is played there. People who are arguing against him, are a bit of the same who say, Messi couldn’t do it on a cold rainy night in stoke. They are ignoring the total domination his teams displays with tactics never seen before in England.

 

[Zehner]

Man Utd would be on their 26th or 27th league title by now. Probably still on 3 CLs but playing some of the most beautiful football since his Barca days. Mancini and Pellegrini would be a distant second place at City and your noisy neighbours would remain forever silent.

Klopp may still have come along and wrestled one league title for us but it would still feel meaningless and shite.

I have to admit as an all time great manager Pep is by far the best at a certain club. Without any evidence yet, I can't say Klopp would or could match that same genius under the same circumstances. But I would love to see Klopp try one day, maybe at Bayern. And I would love to see Pep try his hand at a Klopp level club.

 

[PepG]

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-best-managers-in-the-world-football

 

[youmeletsfly]

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-best-managers-in-the-world-football

They rated Steven fecking Gerrad higher than Ancelotti, Zidane, or Luis Enrique. Posting 442 articles around here should be treated as posting daily mail/the sun.

 

[UweBein]

Klopp. But I have to emphasize that I have also his work in Germany in mind. Once he left, Bayern have practically won a subscription of the Bundesliga title.

Another factor that I prefer about him is the way his teams play. I do enjoy watching that more than what Pep's teams usually offer. (Though I have to say that I liked his team's football at Bayern more than at City.)

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Sorry, but what has Tuchel done to be in the conversation? He couldn't even win Ligue 1 with PSG FFS

 

[Dancfc]

Sorry, but what has Tuchel done to be in the conversation? He couldn't even win Ligue 1 with PSG FFS

Umm yes he did, he won it at every time.

 

[adexkola]

Klopp. But I have to emphasize that I have also his work in Germany in mind. Once he left, Bayern have practically won a subscription of the Bundesliga title.

Another factor that I prefer about him is the way his teams play. I do enjoy watching that more than what Pep's teams usually offer. (Though I have to say that I liked his team's football at Bayern more than at City.)

The former started to happen before he left. He did a great job Klopp, but he also capitalized on a weak Bayern. Once they got their shit together under Heynekes (who lost once to Klopp) and Guardiola, it was curtains.

Getting their shit together includes poaching Gotze and Lewandowski of course.

 

[Gehrman]

The former started to happen before he left. He did a great job Klopp, but he also capitalized on a weak Bayern. Once they got their shit together under Heynekes (who lost once to Klopp) and Guardiola, it was curtains.

Klopp also had to deal with having his best players poached by Bayern and other big clubs(like United). When you're a selling club and having someone like Lewandowski run down their contract to join Bayern there is no way to win.

 

[Lyricist]

Sorry, but what has Tuchel done to be in the conversation? He couldn't even win Ligue 1 with PSG FFS

Are you thinking of Poch? I think Tuchel won Ligue 1 both seasons he was there.

 

[adexkola]

Klopp also had to deal with having his best players poached by Bayern and other big clubs(like United). When you're a selling club and having someone like Lewandowski run down their contract to join Bayern there is no way to win.

True, I did add that to my post (right after you quoted it). It did feel like he was pushing a boulder up a mountain after a while...

 

[stefan92]

The former started to happen before he left. He did a great job Klopp, but he also capitalized on a weak Bayern. Once they got their shit together under Heynekes (who lost once to Klopp) and Guardiola, it was curtains.

Getting their shit together includes poaching Gotze and Lewandowski of course.

Bayern wasn't exactly weak, for decades they were on that level - winning roughly every second league title, sometimes able to defend the title, often not. Klopp did set (and needed) a Bundesliga points record to win the league. This was quickly retaken by Bayern, but it shows that Klopp's Dortmund and Bayern pushed eached other to a level never before seen in the Bundesliga - but only Bayern was able to keep that level.

Just remember, Klopp won his Bundesliga titles during a time when Bayern reached three of four CL finals.

 

[Wolf1992]

The former started to happen before he left. He did a great job Klopp, but he also capitalized on a weak Bayern. Once they got their shit together under Heynekes (who lost once to Klopp) and Guardiola, it was curtains.

Getting their shit together includes poaching Gotze and Lewandowski of course.

That wasn't a weak Bayern, they were doing very well in the UCL, it just wasn't peak Bayern, there is grey in the middle, not everything is black and white.

Football works like that, not many teams can be at their peak at the same time, e.g even Arrigo Sacchi's Milan capitalized on a weakened Juventus that didn't have Platini,Boniek, and Tardelli anymore, Maradona's Napoli did it as well...that doesn't make their titles any less worthy.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Umm yes he did, he won it at every time.

Ummm no he didn't. Lille was winning by a lot so he got fired

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Are you thinking of Poch? I think Tuchel won Ligue 1 both seasons he was there.

Nope....Poch took over for Tuchel after he got fired for being so far behind Lille...

 

[WeePat]

Ummm no he didn't. Lille was winning by a lot so he got fired

Yeah by like a single point in December, and it was Lyon. Anyway he was in Paris for more than the half season you're referencing.

 

[Dancfc]

Ummm no he didn't. Lille was winning by a lot so he got fired

Nope, it was one point (I think) and he didn't complete the season.

His record there is two titles out of two.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Nope, it was one point (I think) and he didn't complete the season.

His record there is two titles out of two.

Whether it was 1 point or 50 points, he was trailing in December. I could lead PSG to a title. So I ask again...what has he done to be included in this list? Seems to be getting more credit than he deserves. I can't stand Klopp and Pep but I understand why they are admired. Tuchel? Not so much...

 

[Dancfc]

I could lead PSG to a title.

I stopped reading after that, utter nonsense.

 

[PepG]

Tuchel led PSG to their first ever Champions League final - a feature that the coaches before him couldnt achieve and i think the one after him will not achieve either. In the next season he won it with Chelsea..so yeah..pretty much he deserves every credit he gets..

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I stopped reading after that, utte nonsense.

Is it?

 

[Dancfc]

Is it?

Well yes, Pirlo at Juventus has well and truly destroyed the myth that almost anyone can win with the best teams.

 

[Zaphod2319]

Is it?

Yes it really is. Your first point was he was trailing by a lot, which was one point and if he stayed he would have won the league for three league titles in a row. He was fired for publicly speaking out about the administration of the club, everything he said is absolutely true. He has never been shy about having these fall outs with the club he manages if he feels the club is not backing him. Both in transfers and at PSG he felt the politics of the club was interfering with personnel. It is possible he could have a falling out with Chelsea, it will last a half a day if he went that route.

I think the conversation starts if he wins the PL title, but I also feel he is at the very least the third best manager in the PL and top level manager in world football.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Well yes, Pirlo at Juventus has well and truly destroyed the myth that almost anyone can win with the best teams.

This Juve team isn't as good as the past. PSG is miles above everyone in France, and yes, they would win the league with me as manager. Hell, they'd even win with you as manager ;-)