Obviously us. Arsenal and Spurs actually have good managers.
Who's in the worst position?
- Thread starter charlenefan
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
andycolegangstainnit
Full Member
Fair point. Not as many as us but more than Arsenal and Spurs. I've analysed your results and possibly Norwich went your way (probz fair result a draw according to most pundits) and you were outplayed by Leicester after 20 mins. I don't see a rosy LT for Chelsea due to lack of financial muscle. However, as things stand they'd be my favourites for 3rd.What ?
Loftus cheek hasnt played a minute
Hudson odoi has just come back.
Our best player kante has barely played this season cause of injury
Our best cb rudiger has played a single half
And now emerson is injured.
Nonsesne to say weve not had injuries.
AltiUn
likes playing with swords after fantasies
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2014
- Messages
- 23,582
I don't really know how good we are because we haven't had more than 5 games seeing our strongest team (on paper) in action, we've little squad depth so when we get an injury it hits hard. Personally I think Arsenal are the worst team of the three but their attack is so good they'll pick up plenty of points against the lower-mid table teams to see them through, I'm fairly confident they'll finish above us again. I think with a couple of midfielders and a striker United will be alright, not title challengers but solid, then you can build from there.
Spurs are in a lot of trouble but their issues aren't hugely serious to me, while they might lose some of their core, keeping Son and Kane will be massive. A lot of their players are playing below the level they're capable of and things have gone stale under Pochettino, under a new manage they might regain their hunger.
Chelsea look very healthy, I can see them as title challengers in the near future, especially if they pick up someone like Sancho.
Spurs are in a lot of trouble but their issues aren't hugely serious to me, while they might lose some of their core, keeping Son and Kane will be massive. A lot of their players are playing below the level they're capable of and things have gone stale under Pochettino, under a new manage they might regain their hunger.
Chelsea look very healthy, I can see them as title challengers in the near future, especially if they pick up someone like Sancho.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2019
- Messages
- 328
- Supports
- Barnet
United has the worst front office. So they are in trouble. Right now United has the least reliable striker as well.
Sandikan
aka sex on the beach
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 52,995
Great question really.
Tottenham have clearly come to the end of their cycle, and they have a lot of doubts over first team players and their manager.
As Poch has kept them fighting above their level for a few years, they've got to expect a drop off now.
Arsenal have an owner who is semi interested, a poor squad with a couple of star forwards, and even with us and Tottenham totally dropping off are only in 5th in the lowest quality top 4 race for years.
Us? The money side will always give us a leg up - we just have to get the right people spending it! A huge task.
Despite all the woe is us stuff, our first 11 can give anyone in the league a decent game. It's how often we'll be able to field it
Tottenham have clearly come to the end of their cycle, and they have a lot of doubts over first team players and their manager.
As Poch has kept them fighting above their level for a few years, they've got to expect a drop off now.
Arsenal have an owner who is semi interested, a poor squad with a couple of star forwards, and even with us and Tottenham totally dropping off are only in 5th in the lowest quality top 4 race for years.
Us? The money side will always give us a leg up - we just have to get the right people spending it! A huge task.
Despite all the woe is us stuff, our first 11 can give anyone in the league a decent game. It's how often we'll be able to field it
Dancfc
Full Member
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2016
- Messages
- 7,406
- Supports
- Chelsea
I'm not sure with Spurs, having Kane and Son still in their prime helps but there's only so much they can do. The rest of their squad is littered with players either not good enough or completely declined. It reminds me of the Chelsea situation after the old guard tanked, even with an owner willing to back his managers it took us half a decade to recover, unless Levy decides to change tact and sanction some serious quantity and quality singings over the next few windows it could be even longer for Spurs.Spurs are in a lot of trouble but their issues aren't hugely serious to me, while they might lose some of their core, keeping Son and Kane will be massive. A lot of their players are playing below the level they're capable of and things have gone stale under Pochettino, under a new manage they might regain their hunger.
gza the genius
Full Member
I think we're obviously the worst off currently but I think Spurs could be in huge trouble if they don't get the next 18 months or so right. With Poch likely gone sooner rather than later as well as Toby/Eriksen/whoever else leaving on frees they have to get everything absolutely spot on or they could be in a lot of trouble.
I think Arsenal are probably where they're going to be for the foreseeable future - battling it out for 4-7th or so.
United could go either way really but with Woodward in charge I don't have much confidence that it'll get any better for us any time soon.
I think Arsenal are probably where they're going to be for the foreseeable future - battling it out for 4-7th or so.
United could go either way really but with Woodward in charge I don't have much confidence that it'll get any better for us any time soon.
Tommy
bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered
It's pretty close.
Spurs have an aging squad & a manager that's losing his impact at the club. The entire defense needs an overhaul, and midfield is light a player or two. Given the spending needed, they'll likely have to sell a big name to fix their problems - Either that or rebuild over several windows. Replacing Poch with a manager that'll keep them punching over their weight for several seasons will be a tough ask.
Arsenal have the most front heavy team since 13/14 Liverpool. The midfield is light, and the manager just can't seem to get the defense/mentality of the team right. They've also got an owner who historically doesn't like to spend much, and seeing Pepe do as well as he has done so far isn't going to convince him to spend big again. Also, the commercial side of Arsenal is absolutely tragic compared to the size of the club.
Man United are different in the sense that they have the foundation from which to build from with a really strong & young back 4/keeper, but find themselves woefully light further up the pitch. Unlike Arsenal/Spurs, the owners seem willing to spend, but it doesn't seem like they've any idea who to spend it on most of the time. If I remember right, you've the second most expensive squad in the country after City (even after the Lukaku sale), so it's not like you're not spending money, you're just spending it poorly too often.
All 3 clubs need new managers.
All 3 clubs need to reinvigorate certain elements of the squad.
Both Spurs & United's squads are currently better than the points on the board, while Arsenal's points total is flattering in comparison.
All that considered, I think United have the most to fix with the hierarchy at the club being way off the pace, but I also think that, once they get that right, their turnaround will be the most drastic, given the resources they have available & the willingness they've shown to spend. A good DOF & some smart signings, and United are up near the top 3 again - I don't see that as easily achieved with the other two.
Spurs have an aging squad & a manager that's losing his impact at the club. The entire defense needs an overhaul, and midfield is light a player or two. Given the spending needed, they'll likely have to sell a big name to fix their problems - Either that or rebuild over several windows. Replacing Poch with a manager that'll keep them punching over their weight for several seasons will be a tough ask.
Arsenal have the most front heavy team since 13/14 Liverpool. The midfield is light, and the manager just can't seem to get the defense/mentality of the team right. They've also got an owner who historically doesn't like to spend much, and seeing Pepe do as well as he has done so far isn't going to convince him to spend big again. Also, the commercial side of Arsenal is absolutely tragic compared to the size of the club.
Man United are different in the sense that they have the foundation from which to build from with a really strong & young back 4/keeper, but find themselves woefully light further up the pitch. Unlike Arsenal/Spurs, the owners seem willing to spend, but it doesn't seem like they've any idea who to spend it on most of the time. If I remember right, you've the second most expensive squad in the country after City (even after the Lukaku sale), so it's not like you're not spending money, you're just spending it poorly too often.
All 3 clubs need new managers.
All 3 clubs need to reinvigorate certain elements of the squad.
Both Spurs & United's squads are currently better than the points on the board, while Arsenal's points total is flattering in comparison.
All that considered, I think United have the most to fix with the hierarchy at the club being way off the pace, but I also think that, once they get that right, their turnaround will be the most drastic, given the resources they have available & the willingness they've shown to spend. A good DOF & some smart signings, and United are up near the top 3 again - I don't see that as easily achieved with the other two.
Klopper76
"Did you see Fabinho against Red Star & Cardiff?"
United currently but Spurs aren't far off. The difference is that United haven't even had a year under Solskjaer whereas Spurs are many years into Pochettino's reign. Spurs seem like they're coming to the end of a cycle with him.
United seem like their stuck in a never ending cycle until the Glazers go. They're also 14th in the league after nine games.
Arsenal are fine. They don't play well but they've got a couple of very good strikers who can bail them out most of the time. They'll have a few results like last night but I still fancy them for top four.
United seem like their stuck in a never ending cycle until the Glazers go. They're also 14th in the league after nine games.
Arsenal are fine. They don't play well but they've got a couple of very good strikers who can bail them out most of the time. They'll have a few results like last night but I still fancy them for top four.
AltiUn
likes playing with swords after fantasies
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2014
- Messages
- 23,582
I'm sort of on the fence to see how Ndombele and Lo Celso settle in too because they could end up being huge signings, but I do think you've got a good point. Levy made a very grave error not investing in the squad when Spurs were in an enviable position of strength.I'm not sure with Spurs, having Kane and Son still in their prime helps but there's only so much they can do. The rest of their squad is littered with players either not good enough or completely declined. It reminds me of the Chelsea situation after the old guard tanked, even with an owner willing to back his managers it took us half a decade to recover, unless Levy decides to change tact and sanction some serious quantity and quality singings over the next few windows it could be even longer for Spurs.
We deserved the norwhich win.Fair point. Not as many as us but more than Arsenal and Spurs. I've analysed your results and possibly Norwich went your way (probz fair result a draw according to most pundits) and you were outplayed by Leicester after 20 mins. I don't see a rosy LT for Chelsea due to lack of financial muscle. However, as things stand they'd be my favourites for 3rd.
Their goal shouldnt have stood because of a clear foul on tammy and var also missed a clear pen on dave.
Leiscter we should have lost no doubt. But we should have gotten more from the sheff united and liverpool games. Where we are now is fair.
fps
Full Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2018
- Messages
- 5,494
Spurs have a lot to lose and transition to a new manager will be hard. But Man Utd are honestly 3 bad results away from falling apart completely. I just happen to think form will pick up as first teasers return as long as they stay fit.Short term us, squad no where near good enough for top 4 this season unless we have a good January window.
Long term I'd say Spurs. I'd rather have their squad in the short term but replacing the quality that they are expected to lose for nothing won't come cheap. We've learnt the hard way how hard it is to get signings right.
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2019
- Messages
- 120
Arsenal - they have Bellerin and Tierney to join the team which should ideally improve their defence to some extent. Not sure why Torreira doesn't play but he will add some stability and tenacity to that midfield.
Spurs - worst position out of the 3 because the manager and his team have reached the end of their cycle, players looking to secure contracts elsewhere and a massive stadium to pay off. The stadium puts them under intense pressure to secure CL, otherwise things may spiral out of control.
Us - We have players to come in from injury but one could argue we can improve on the manager. I think a change of manager will result in an improvement in performance.
That's how I see it.
Spurs - worst position out of the 3 because the manager and his team have reached the end of their cycle, players looking to secure contracts elsewhere and a massive stadium to pay off. The stadium puts them under intense pressure to secure CL, otherwise things may spiral out of control.
Us - We have players to come in from injury but one could argue we can improve on the manager. I think a change of manager will result in an improvement in performance.
That's how I see it.
Florida Man
Cartoon expert and crap superhero
Spurs are back to where they're supposed to be anyway so it ain't them.
Theafonis
In love with @Eboue
I’m afraid of this. It’s a long season !You'll be adding Chelsea to the list later in the season when the younger players inevitably become inconsistent and the more experienced ones do their usual trick of giving up for the season around December time.
charlenefan
Far less insightful than the other Charley
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 33,052
And some perspective on Emery, everything he did at PSG is what was the minimum expected of him given the state of that league and the level of investment in his side and despite all of that it was on his watch that Monaco went and won the leagueSome perspective on the average managers. One has won the Europa League three times, qualified for Euopean football in a competitive league on a regular basis, won the domestic triple in France the season before last, never finished lower than 9th, even when managing a promoted side and has a better win% and higher ppg than Pochettino in the Premier League. The other won his last title 7 years ago (in Norway) and finished dead last in the Premier League before getting the sack in the Championship 5 years ago. Hasn't won a title since (in Norway).
He's an average manager who was hired by Arsenal on the basis of being a yes man who now the majority of the Arsenal fan base want replaced
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2016
- Messages
- 107
My take....
Arsenal - in a cycle of mediocrity which wont change under current investment structures . Don't see them improving over the next 3-5 years
Spurs - it's over, the current team has to be broken up, they are losing key players on a free and as such key assets will have to be sold to rebuild. They are back to square one, but who knows a new manager might repeat what poch has done, but it's equally likely at West ham, villa, everton etc.
United - Best case scenario is a two year rebuild under a new manager, making them competitive again. The funds should be there, but the next appointment is key & needs to be back. That man is not OGS
I would prefer to be in United's shoes, as long as relegation is avoided (same applies to spurs)
Arsenal - in a cycle of mediocrity which wont change under current investment structures . Don't see them improving over the next 3-5 years
Spurs - it's over, the current team has to be broken up, they are losing key players on a free and as such key assets will have to be sold to rebuild. They are back to square one, but who knows a new manager might repeat what poch has done, but it's equally likely at West ham, villa, everton etc.
United - Best case scenario is a two year rebuild under a new manager, making them competitive again. The funds should be there, but the next appointment is key & needs to be back. That man is not OGS
I would prefer to be in United's shoes, as long as relegation is avoided (same applies to spurs)
padr81
Full Member
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2015
- Messages
- 11,922
- Supports
- Man City
I think spurs are best positioned as Levy seems willing to spend and backed poch this summer. They need a little refresh as opposed to a major rebuild. Of all the main men levy is the most capable. Hell steady the ship quickly if it rocks.
Arsenal I'm unsure on but they have goals in the squad. They'll have stupid blips but their firepower and offensive recruitment is pretty good. Short term they'll be fine. Long term no clue.
With United I don't see any clear vision from ole or the club, regardless of what he speaks of. It seems to be play youth, buy youth and hope to magically pull a Ferguson despite having none of the nous.
But your biggest problem is higher up, there seems to be zero forethought and all the decisions, signings sem to be reactionary.
That said you aren't as far away as you think. Getting 2 or 3 of the right top players instead of whoever is going would see you jump well up but I don't know if your higher ups are capable.
Arsenal I'm unsure on but they have goals in the squad. They'll have stupid blips but their firepower and offensive recruitment is pretty good. Short term they'll be fine. Long term no clue.
With United I don't see any clear vision from ole or the club, regardless of what he speaks of. It seems to be play youth, buy youth and hope to magically pull a Ferguson despite having none of the nous.
But your biggest problem is higher up, there seems to be zero forethought and all the decisions, signings sem to be reactionary.
That said you aren't as far away as you think. Getting 2 or 3 of the right top players instead of whoever is going would see you jump well up but I don't know if your higher ups are capable.
1950
Full Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
- Messages
- 533
He might well be an average manager, but what does that make Solskjær?And some perspective on Emery, everything he did at PSG is what was the minimum expected of him given the state of that league and the level of investment in his side and despite all of that it was on his watch that Monaco went and won the league
He's an average manager who was hired by Arsenal on the basis of being a yes man who now the majority of the Arsenal fan base want replaced
noodlehair
"It's like..."
At least the rest of us are busy fecking things up so you know you'll still be in contention even if it does go bad.I’m afraid of this. It’s a long season !
charlenefan
Far less insightful than the other Charley
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 33,052
LikewiseHe might well be an average manager, but what does that make Solskjær?
OverratedOpinion
Full Member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2017
- Messages
- 6,475
Us, Arsenal have some decent midfielders and 2 top class strikers whilst Spurs just have a much better squad than us.
Amerifan
Full Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2019
- Messages
- 986
Arsenal - Wegner is gone and reality of competing as a club run as a business yet to sink in
Spurs - Investment in new stadium and reality of competing as a club run as a business yet to sink in
United - SAF is retired and reality of competing as a club run as a business yet to sink in
Despite the impressive histories, given the equalizing effect of the TV money, there’s nothing special about any club run as a business any more. Arsenal, Spurs, and us included. The financial gap between us and our rivals has closed to the point where newly promoted clubs can equal our spending. Top players cost £30+ million, yet clubs are limited to £75 to 100 million net spend a summer. Even we can’t buy a competitive squad in less than 3 or 4 years, and that’s assuming every buy works out.
Clubs either need an exceptional manager adept at player development (Poch until last season, Klopp), or to be a billionaire’s plaything skirting FFP (City, Chelsea) to consistently rise above the pack. Arsenal, Spurs, us currently have neither.
Spurs - Investment in new stadium and reality of competing as a club run as a business yet to sink in
United - SAF is retired and reality of competing as a club run as a business yet to sink in
Despite the impressive histories, given the equalizing effect of the TV money, there’s nothing special about any club run as a business any more. Arsenal, Spurs, and us included. The financial gap between us and our rivals has closed to the point where newly promoted clubs can equal our spending. Top players cost £30+ million, yet clubs are limited to £75 to 100 million net spend a summer. Even we can’t buy a competitive squad in less than 3 or 4 years, and that’s assuming every buy works out.
Clubs either need an exceptional manager adept at player development (Poch until last season, Klopp), or to be a billionaire’s plaything skirting FFP (City, Chelsea) to consistently rise above the pack. Arsenal, Spurs, us currently have neither.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2019
- Messages
- 372
Arsenal - Only a few good players, pretty average throughout the team except for upfront, not a whole lot of youth coming through (Reiss-Nelson and Guendouzi look good), big signing looks like a flop/Gervinho clone, decent manager but might be off soon.
Spurs - Look to be at the end of a cycle, good new signings but not many and far more first team names want to leave or are on the decline. Some good youth coming through (Walker-Peters, Winks) but not an awful lot. Manager looks like he's on his way out too.
United - Bad start to the season could see the manager out but it seems most fans and the board have some respect for the manager and his ideas, even if they seem a bit of a reach at the moment. Mix of poor and great performances show their is something there, perhaps just a few more puzzle pieces to make a proper team. Great summer recruitment and a few world class players in the squad. If they can find a way to break down low blocks they could be a force to be reckoned with.
Maybe it's just a coincidence but all of these teams play 4-2-3-1... just saying.
Spurs - Look to be at the end of a cycle, good new signings but not many and far more first team names want to leave or are on the decline. Some good youth coming through (Walker-Peters, Winks) but not an awful lot. Manager looks like he's on his way out too.
United - Bad start to the season could see the manager out but it seems most fans and the board have some respect for the manager and his ideas, even if they seem a bit of a reach at the moment. Mix of poor and great performances show their is something there, perhaps just a few more puzzle pieces to make a proper team. Great summer recruitment and a few world class players in the squad. If they can find a way to break down low blocks they could be a force to be reckoned with.
Maybe it's just a coincidence but all of these teams play 4-2-3-1... just saying.