You mean on topic? Ole was included in the "list", I would be equally surprised if he mentioned David Moyes or Sean Dyche. But I'd say Flick is the best out there at the moment.
Who's the best coach/manager in the world right now?
- Thread starter Suedesi
- Start date
I'm confused as to the thread title being about who the best coach in the world is and the OP comment as to who the best coach for Manchester United is.
Well, which one do you want?
The best coach in the world right now? Arguably Pep or Flick at the very top. Bayern's consecutive CLs still a possibility.
Below them slightly: Nagelsmann. Massively punching above their weight with that squad, and still keeping up with Bayern.
A further step down and I'd actually say Brendan Rodgers. He's had to deal with so many injuries and an underperforming Vardy and still keep them competitive and consistent. They're attractive to watch, in my opinion.
Honorable Mentions because I'm lazy: Erik Ten Hag, Thomas Tuchel. Mostly in the Rodgers bracket.
Who would be a great manager for United?
Nagelsmann, in my opinion. Would be some learning difficulties early on, especially at a bigger club with greater expectations, but he's going likely going to be one of the very best managers in future.
If not Nagelsmann, then Rodgers. But that's impossible, given the Liverpool ties.
Honorable Mentions cause I'm still lazy: Erik Ten Hag, Mauricio Pochettino
Well, which one do you want?
The best coach in the world right now? Arguably Pep or Flick at the very top. Bayern's consecutive CLs still a possibility.
Below them slightly: Nagelsmann. Massively punching above their weight with that squad, and still keeping up with Bayern.
A further step down and I'd actually say Brendan Rodgers. He's had to deal with so many injuries and an underperforming Vardy and still keep them competitive and consistent. They're attractive to watch, in my opinion.
Honorable Mentions because I'm lazy: Erik Ten Hag, Thomas Tuchel. Mostly in the Rodgers bracket.
Who would be a great manager for United?
Nagelsmann, in my opinion. Would be some learning difficulties early on, especially at a bigger club with greater expectations, but he's going likely going to be one of the very best managers in future.
If not Nagelsmann, then Rodgers. But that's impossible, given the Liverpool ties.
Honorable Mentions cause I'm still lazy: Erik Ten Hag, Mauricio Pochettino
Pep or Hansi Flick.
Well then, since you’re adamant you didn’t just jump on the chance to shit on Ole. There are other managers on there who are clearly a tier or two below the rest as well. They’re not all equal. Make some arguments and shit on the others as well, then.
It’s too early to judge. The new manager effect is a powerful factor despite some promising signs.
Looking at the first 14 games of Ole’s tenure it seemed like nothing could go wrong. Then it did.
2 goals in 14 matches is insanely impressive though. The only counter I guess would be to what extent Tuchel has sacrificed your attacking abilities with the 3 at the back system.
Would any of the managers be top of the league with United's squad? Not a chance, they would still only be second to this City team. Yes we might have fancier patterns of play but we would still be at the best 2nd. Even the great Pep and Klopp wouldn't be winning the league with this squad.
Still think it's crazy to put Pep above Klopp on recent achievements - the latter has done what the former still hasn't been able to do and with way less money and a thinner squad. Both play good football, both have had their teams score a silly amount of goals.
A lot rides on this years' CL for me. Pep's biggest flaw is his random tactical changes against weak teams in the CL that get City knocked out - the fact they've come undone because of those changes against teams like Monaco, Spurs and Lyon really are on him and him alone.
A lot rides on this years' CL for me. Pep's biggest flaw is his random tactical changes against weak teams in the CL that get City knocked out - the fact they've come undone because of those changes against teams like Monaco, Spurs and Lyon really are on him and him alone.
All fair and worth considering. I'd still have him over Bielsa at least!
Also to be fair to Tuchel, we're actually averaging more shots per game under him than we were under Lampard. Lower xG though, so the quality of our chances has gone down which makes some sense and passes the eye test. We've definitely prioritised defensive stability - again this makes sense given the lack of time to drill attacking patterns in training.
It's pep or klopp
Just like it was last season when the cafe thought Guardiola was a fraud, and Klopp clearly a level above.
Just like it was last season when the cafe thought Guardiola was a fraud, and Klopp clearly a level above.
Pep.
Right now!? This very second ?
Ruben Amorim
Ruben Amorim
Hard to say with all variables at play. Pep is the obvious answer, but if you take away the money is he still obvious? Ole got relegated and then sacked because he couldn’t hack the championship. Now he’s got a bit money and he’s 2nd in the prem.
You knew what I meant and no matter how I would have said it, it didn't change the fact that you did not stay on course because you couldn't resist an opportunity to to take a shot at Ole. You couldn't even be decent about it and say something like I don't think Ole, x, y or z should be on the list, you had to go over the top by saying he is "not even a top 10 PL manager. He is lucky to inherit such a squad and have such funds, but tactically he's pretty horrible and I doubt any top club would want him". That's going out of your way to shit on the manager with hyperbole.
I swear this place has turned into a who can be the most divisive contest - you fit right in with a LOT of the current Cafe posters so, you do you. I am sure many are virtually high-fiving you right now.
Okay so with that embellishment out of the way.... why are we settling then?
Pep is most likely the best, Flick is also doing well.
Hansi Flick
Made the best team in Germany the best team in Germany and Europe.
Made the best team in Germany the best team in Germany and Europe.
It's Pep but I will never admit it to a Gallagher. I think Brendan Rodgers might be up there too with a decent squad, going all the way back to Swansea he has made journey men and also rans play like galacticos. Leicester play very attractive football and you can see measurable improvement in a lot of the players he coaches.
It's Pep obviously.... yeah he's not won a third CL with a second team, and yeah, he's always had talent and/or money to bolster that talent. But being so consistent at that level where firings are so easy is unreal, even Roman would flinch at the idea of sacking him.
Zidane doesn't mess about as much with his tactics and setup and that structure pulled through in an epic CL run(with luck), but not sure I can have him over Pep just yet, he's only in his Pep at Barca stage, let's see how he handles another team.
Rodgers above is a reasonable shout, but not exactly the answer either, just a reasonable shout, again, wouldn't mind seeing him somewhere abroad. But he's done tremendous stuff in Britain.
Zidane doesn't mess about as much with his tactics and setup and that structure pulled through in an epic CL run(with luck), but not sure I can have him over Pep just yet, he's only in his Pep at Barca stage, let's see how he handles another team.
Rodgers above is a reasonable shout, but not exactly the answer either, just a reasonable shout, again, wouldn't mind seeing him somewhere abroad. But he's done tremendous stuff in Britain.
It's Pep. There is no other manager or coach anywhere near him.
Yeah I’d definitely lean towards the validity of Tuchel’s methods being the cause rather than a new manager bounce as well. Just can’t rule it out either.
But like you say, the tactic to prioritise defence is obviously a deliberate one given it’s quicker to implement than an attacking game plan and it’s paying dividends. The Atlético tie home and away was a masterclass in this and showed the exact way to deal with them.
You’re a formidable prospect next season with Tuchel getting a full preseason and strong backing in the summer. You’ve gotta land a quality CF though. I suspect whoever lands Haaland will be the team to push City closest (unless City get him in which case we might as well roll straight onto 22/23).
I’ve gotta disagree on the Bielsa criticism though! My dream scenario for United would be Ole as manager in charge of the club with Bielsa as the assistant in charge of the team
Fair enough! I certainly don't want to come across as disparaging Bielsa; he's certainly hugely influential and very attuned tactically. I think he'd be unbelievably brilliant in an advisory role, but for me he's too dogmatic and he pushes his players too hard to have sole authority as a manager. I would definitely agree though that a combo of Ole's man management and Bielsa's tactical brain would be a frightening prospect!Yeah I’d definitely lean towards the validity of Tuchel’s methods being the cause rather than a new manager bounce as well. Just can’t rule it out either.
But like you say, the tactic to prioritise defence is obviously a deliberate one given it’s quicker to implement than an attacking game plan and it’s paying dividends. The Atlético tie home and away was a masterclass in this and showed the exact way to deal with them.
You’re a formidable prospect next season with Tuchel getting a full preseason and strong backing in the summer. You’ve gotta land a quality CF though. I suspect whoever lands Haaland will be the team to push City closest (unless City get him in which case we might as well roll straight onto 22/23).
I’ve gotta disagree on the Bielsa criticism though! My dream scenario for United would be Ole as manager in charge of the club with Bielsa as the assistant in charge of the team
I do agree that it's reasonable to think the jury is still out as far as Tuchel and Chelsea are concerned, though his CV (and probably a healthy dose of my own irrationality) make me inclined towards optimism. In fairness, Tuchel has mostly run into issues in the past due to clashes with the board and not due to anything regarding tactics or squad management, so it's a good thing Chelsea don't have a hierarchy that's repeatedly clashed with managers in the past or anything!
Pep for me. He spends a lot of money but it's pretty impressive how totally his sides seem to buy into him and his 'philisophy'. On terms of clarity of tactical vision and ability to implement it he's a decent distance ahead of anyone else imo.
Hansi Flick
he clearly did not
what embellishment?
as for why we're settling not sure why you're asking me? I'm not in charge.
Having Ole’s name up there is just so shameless
It's true to be honest.Wow
Sir Alex Ferguson
Care to list those 10+ PL managers that are better than him?
Somehow he's supposedly one of the worst managers in the league but we've still finished third and will likely be second this year. Ole must be the biggest fraud ever, a PE teacher that has lost 4 Premier League games since January 2020. You are laughably deluded.
There’s a lot more to being a success at one club than just coaching ability though, it’s just as much about being the right fit at the right time. I’m convinced a lot of whether a manager succeeds or fails is circumstantial, and one manager succeeding at one club might do terribly at another and vice versa. Nobody considered Ole a top coach before 2018, especially after he tanked at Cardiff, but there’s something about the dynamic at United that seems to work. Better than anyone else post 2013 anyway.
It’s almost a mystery why some appointments work and some don’t, and you never know until you try. I’m sure that’s why you have some chairmen appointing people like Bruce, Moyes and the same old faces who keep failing upwards because who knows, their club might be different. Or why you get clubs appointing the likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Scott Parker, Arteta. There’s no science behind it, you take a punt, watch it for 18-24 months and see what happens. If it fails, take a shot on somebody else. Ole seems to have something about him when in the dugout here that didn’t apply at Cardiff. Gary Neville failed at Valencia, but I think he could walk into Wycombe Wanderers tomorrow and for whatever reason it might just click.
Just because Ole doesn’t have the CV of Jose Mourinho doesn’t mean he isn’t the right manager for us. As the saying goes, it isn’t stupid if it works. At the minute, in my view it’s working.
Its all about opinions and for me the list at the OP shouldn't include ole (he's a legend for me personally)Care to list those 10+ PL managers that are better than him?
Somehow he's supposedly one of the worst managers in the league but we've still finished third and will likely be second this year. Ole must be the biggest fraud ever, a PE teacher that has lost 4 Premier League games since January 2020. You are laughably deluded.
I think ole is a better fit for utd than the last two I agree with that.
Ole is clearly not far behind Klopp and within a year or so will easily surpass him as Pep's closest rival. In his time here I think Ole has implemented an inventive and progressive approach to games that other young managers would struggle to match.
Yeah, it shouldn't include him (and several others imo), because he's still got a lot to prove at the highest level to be considered in these discussions.
But if he was as bad as most people make him out to be, we'd be probably somewhere between 6th and 10th.
Pep: any manager could have won with that money and squad.
Ole: no manager can win with his squad.
Ole: no manager can win with his squad.
Pep by a mile.
Some Dortmund fans I know rate Tuchel's Dortmund higher than Klopp's. To the obvious "Klopp won a couple of things in Germany whereas Tuchel didn't" they came back with "Klopp was competing with van Gaal's team, Tuchel was going against Pep"
I don't fully buy it, but then again I don't follow BVB as closely. I think he's a great tactician that's fore sure.
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Pep
would be great to see what he can do at a smaller club on a budget though
would be great to see what he can do at a smaller club on a budget though
Yea I don't really care to be honest football's boring these days so horses for courses.
It's not an exhaustive list, nor a definitive list. Ole is there becasue he's the current United manager, still second in the league last I checked. If I didn't include there would 20+ messages on why he isn't there. The spiirit of the thread is not Ole in or Ole out, it's just to have a footie convo on a slow international week.
Ten Hag is a decent shout. Good coach doing well with Ajax. Then again, he got looked over for the completely unproven Xabi Alonso for the the Moenchengladbach gig
(Famous last words before Ajax knocks us out Europa)
My choice too actually. He doesn't have the cache' of Pep or Klopp, but he was instrumental for Germany between 06-14 and his achievements at Bayern last year were surreal, considering Kovac left him with quite a mess.
Bayern City in the semis would be a great matchup for the neutrals (Mbappe/Neymar permitting)