Both you and me could have won that league 3 seasons in a row with Ajax.
Who's the best coach/manager in the world right now?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Klopp isn't the best manager in the world right now. If he was he wouldn't be 11 points behind Ole and 3 points behind Moyes in April.
Saying that people would take Klopp over Ole or Moyes doesn't mean Klopp is the best manager in the world right now. Those three aren't the only managers in the world. The fact that you are even comparing Klopp to Ole and Moyes proves what a ridiculously shit job Klopp has done this season. Sorry to burst your bubble but he isn't the best manager in the world right now.
I'll be going out on a limb here and say he's currently not the best coach in the world.
Yeah, need to see Tuchel over a longer period at Chelsea. He has a bit of Jose about him, in that he seems very tactically astute (Jose was, maybe not so much now) but seems to end up falling out with everyone one. Conte is another example of this.
Let's see if Tuchel can win something this year, qualify Chelsea for the CL and then keep a happy camp for over a year. If he does that, then for sure he can go top 3-5.
At the time of writing however, you've got to go with:
1) Pep
2) Klopp
3) Simeone
4) Zidane (CL record gets him here)
5) Conte (about to win his 5 league title in 7 attempts.)
Arguments can be made about the order and Nanglesmann is the clear outsider not included. Klopp is the hardest one to place atm.
Agree with your points. Going through a squad cycle of 4-5 years is really interesting. Guardiola for his lovely football doesnt have the best transfer record. If Klopp hangs around how is he gonna replace and will it be successful, Firmino/salah/mane.
Also for those who are saying Tuchel isn't one of the best managers around. What happens if he gets Chelsea to the CL final? That will be two CL finals with two different teams in successive seasons. He's done a fantastic job coming in midseason and solidifying a defensive that frank thought couldn't be fixed without new signings.
Also some managers/coaches are only as good as they have their no2 still with them. Look at Mourinho ever since he lost Rui Faria as his no2, he's never delivered the same level of results. Would Utd of 06-08 reached successive CL finals if it wasnt for the painstaking defensive work that Carlos Quieroz did with the defense?
I would actually push back slightly on the notion that he's a poor man-manager - his use of Chelsea's entire squad has been in stark contrast to Lampard's approach and by all accounts players are happier now than under the last regime. It is probably fair to say that he was poor at this at the beginning - I know that at Mainz he had issues. Tuchel's main problem though is that he keeps getting into fights with the hierarchy.
Pep by a margin. If he became our manager now, we would be genuine challengers again in 2023.
Klopp seems able to get a couple of very high level seasons from his teams before if implodes.
Jose has lost his sparkle.
Flick seems to be doing a good job at Bayern but too early to tell.
Tunchel i doing well at Chelsea but is in the honeymoon period.
Klopp seems able to get a couple of very high level seasons from his teams before if implodes.
Jose has lost his sparkle.
Flick seems to be doing a good job at Bayern but too early to tell.
Tunchel i doing well at Chelsea but is in the honeymoon period.
As far as the question in the title is concerned, I think it's easy to look at past achievements, add up all titles and call it a day, depending on the exact definition of "right now" and the weight you assign each domestic title yadda yadda.
However, the question in the opening post adds another aspect: who do you think would be most succesful in the future at a hypothetical United with you, yes, you, the reader, in charge of the club and money being no object?
On a purely objective basis, can there be a valid answer other than Pep Guardiola? I get it, you might not like his style or find him to be a weirdo, but is any other manager more likely to be as succesful as him with no cap on spending?
However, the question in the opening post adds another aspect: who do you think would be most succesful in the future at a hypothetical United with you, yes, you, the reader, in charge of the club and money being no object?
On a purely objective basis, can there be a valid answer other than Pep Guardiola? I get it, you might not like his style or find him to be a weirdo, but is any other manager more likely to be as succesful as him with no cap on spending?
Lots of potential but needs to step up to a bigger league. Might face additional scrutiny for being American which won't help.
This is anecdotal obviously but a mate of mine that I used to play 7 a side with played under him at Princeton. Said it was pretty obvious even then he was miles ahead tactically and seemed obviously destined for bigger and better appointments.
Amazing there is a discussion about best managers in the world but its just Europe really. Not sure how anyone can rate anyone has one of the best managers in the world without actually considering other managers from surprise surprise.....other parts of the world outside of Europe.
That United are in second place is a fact, but it doesn't make me think he is some great manager. In contrast actually, there have been many other measures to show he is actually doing a quite poor job, think of cup exits, the distance between him and the league leaders, the brand of football, players that have improved/declined under his tenure.. and so forth. I find it as shocking as naming Fred under the top managers or Daniel James under the top wingers. And that relates to his classification, which tbh does insinuate I want him out sooner or later, but that wasn't the intention of the post. I just think he has no business to be named under these managers, and I'd think fellow United fans wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't but that's fair enough.It's not an exhaustive list, nor a definitive list. Ole is there becasue he's the current United manager, still second in the league last I checked. If I didn't include there would 20+ messages on why he isn't there. The spiirit of the thread is not Ole in or Ole out, it's just to have a footie convo on a slow international week.
Ten Hag is a decent shout. Good coach doing well with Ajax. Then again, he got looked over for the completely unproven Xabi Alonso for the the Moenchengladbach gig
(Famous last words before Ajax knocks us out Europa)
I don't see how that really makes sense when the same Ajax has been playing that same football in Europe, playing fantastic football against the bigger names in Europe. Got absolutely robbed vs Chelsea last season, but they really disappointed vs Getafe I must say.
Don't think that's even remotely true, the Eredivisie is quite poor. Meaning that even though you can be good, PSV/AZ is also good. They will also win their matches vs all the fodder, you really need to have the other teams to have meltdowns before you can stretch away. In the first season, PSV and Ajax went head to head and in the end PSV collapsed. In the second season, AZ actually was on equaly points to Ajax and in much better form. This season, Ajax has stretched the lead after buying Haller and PSV collapsing.
I don't spend my day trying to find opportunities to take a shot at Ole, make a list of best midfielders and include Fred and I'd be equally surprised. I just think he has no business there, and I don't think any of what I said is hyperbole either. I don't think Ole is currently United manager because of how good a manager he is, nor why he is one of the best paid managers in the world because he's that good. He loves the club, and I think he is a good man-manager, and has good vision of where the club wants to be. Tactically just way out of his depth and his tenure so far has shown that on numerous occasions, I think there are a lot of much better managers out there than him.
I’m all for skewering blind Eurocentrism, but the simple fact is that in this day and age, if you’re not managing in one of a handful of leagues in Europe, you’re not managing at the highest level and thus you cannot be considered the best manager in the world.
That wasn’t necessarily the case 50, 40, maybe even 20 years ago, but it’s certainly the case now.
It's a question worth asking but I'm not sure if we should give it that much importance. I mean, in any sport, the very best are suited to the highest level. Big Sam possible being better at 'saving' shit teams doesnt make him a better manager than Pep or Zidane, just suited to something different (a lower level, namely). I do think Pep's
It's also telling that Klopp failed to win the CL and won it only at Liverpool who have won 6 in their history with even Rafa managing to win one when they were crap. Clubs who have a history of winning these titles have an extra self belief an culture like Barcelona and Liverpool and unlike City and PSG for whom it's a mental block.
Whats the craic with this Nagelsman? I cant find a record of him winning anything. Seems pretty in experienced, too.
Nagelsman, its that name again! The Bundesliga doesnt seem all that, in depth.
You really shouldn’t judge managers man-marking skills based on a brief spell after the last one was sacked. You’ll almost always get a boost in morale, the undercooked players get a clean slate etc. He has quite often fallen off with players as well as with management... although that’s something that he can work on and it’s possible that he’ll get more adaptable with age.
Hansi Flick -
I do not tell that he is the best coach - I think that is Pep. But he is the one whose coaching style matches best to his players right now. Right place, right person, right time. Might be different with another club, another set of players etc. - I do not see him as the big tactican or player teacher that e.g. Pep or van Gaal are/were - he has other strengths. He is more a coach that recognizes the strengths and weaknesses of others (staff, players etc.) and coordinates that.
Barca won their first Champions League title in 1992 I don't think they had any culture of winning Champions League they can't be compared to Liverpool in that sense, but they full took advantage during their golden period and become dominant force but for past few seasons they haven't been anything special and unlike Liverpool you never get that feeling that if they are outmatched by opponents on paper they can pull it off.
Sure that's fair to pump the brakes a bit regarding his impact on Chelsea given how toxic things were when he arrived. That said, I am struggling a bit to think of any players he fell out with at PSG, which is definitely a very tricky atmosphere to navigate given all the player power there. Maybe Cavani a bit? But even if so it was minor. I can't really recall any major issues he had with any players at Dortmund either.
- Pep
- Klopp
I think Klopp has outperformed Pep with less resources before this season. UCL final, UCL win and Liverpool's first league in decades. Right now however the likes of Conte, Flick, Pep, Klopp and to lesser extent Tuchel.
As for the question, I’d take Pep and then Nagelsmann — sure, Klopp is a better manager than the latter at the moment but I really feel like Nagelsmann can build a huge and prolonged legacy here.
I can't imagine mentioning someone who has not won a major trophy?
Pep for me right now.
Pep for me right now.
Pep, Klopp, Flick, Allegri, Tuchel, Eric Ten Haag, Jardim, Ancelotti, Simeone, i.e the CL proven coaches. Can't quite decide on first place.
His team can't defend. His whole structure isn't built that way. He isn't building any prolonged legacy until he sorts that out.
Give it to Giggsy till the end of the season and then we can decide who the best is
His team has conceded 21 goals in 26 league games so far. That's the best result in Bundesliga and 14 goals less than probably the best team in the world (with whom he's still competing for the first place despite the vast difference in resources). Last season Leipzig's defense was second best in the league with 5 more goals conceded than Bayern.
Sure, he's had a few awful results here and there, especially and Europe, but that's usually against teams that have a way superior squad depth. And even then — he had lost to us what, 5:0? And still in the end it's Leipzig that stayed in the CL and not us, with them pretty much nullifying our attack in the key fixture.
Bielsa
You're lucky I didn't mention Graham Potter.Bielsa
It's Pep and I don't even think it's close. Earlier on this season I thought he had lost it. But seeing what he's done with a city side without aguero/De Bryune and how he reinvented them tactically to go on this incredible run has made me eat my words.
Either way a team that has one the CL in 2006 or whatever it was, has that belief, especially when you consider the football they were producing and players they had. There was no 'fear' there, although of course their level also creates that confidence.
No it wouldn't. If Ole was in charge of City he would have played Silva, Foden and De Bruyne on the wing. He would never play those guys in centre midfield of a 4-3-3. He would perhaps play De Bruyne in the #10 but have Fernandinho and Rodri playing behind him in a 4-2-3-1
That superhero is bullshit.
And who knows, City might be playing even better and scoring a lot more goals.
Pep by a long way probably.
Even though Klopp is a top manager and motivator they look top 6 again without VVD. He seems that important for a solid defence as well as a platform to play a high line and pile forward, they could attack with confidence.
Pep can build around problems easily, was supposedly needing a rebuild but has brought back a so called rubbish John Stones along side a new defender. No striker, no problem, we'll have Gundo whatever he's called to score a boat load. His player coaching and systems are what sets him above.
Even though Klopp is a top manager and motivator they look top 6 again without VVD. He seems that important for a solid defence as well as a platform to play a high line and pile forward, they could attack with confidence.
Pep can build around problems easily, was supposedly needing a rebuild but has brought back a so called rubbish John Stones along side a new defender. No striker, no problem, we'll have Gundo whatever he's called to score a boat load. His player coaching and systems are what sets him above.
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Biesla.
It’s obviously Klopp if you look at if over 3 seasons.
The whole forum almost said Klopp at the beginning of the season.
Swap Pep and Klopp and Pep does not do what Klopp managed to do the previous two seasons.
Ole is up there (premier league managers) if he finishes second this season with arguably the fourth best squad.
The whole forum almost said Klopp at the beginning of the season.
Swap Pep and Klopp and Pep does not do what Klopp managed to do the previous two seasons.
Ole is up there (premier league managers) if he finishes second this season with arguably the fourth best squad.
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I take your point that Barca had only won it once prior to the 21st century, but I think the point by @amolbhatia50k still essentially stands in that there is a definite difference between clubs that have won it before and those that are trying to win it for the first time in their history (e.g. PSG and Man City). There seems to be a ‘mental block’ there for the newcomers, especially as some of them were nowhere near any kind of high level European competition for decades and are only contenders now due to new money (not the case for Barca).
I’d say the same mental block exists for countries that have never won the World Cup; it’s hard to achieve something for the first time simply because you lack belief in a way that the established teams don’t. They think it’s their birthright. It’s no accident that so many first time winners have done it on their own soil.