Why are Brazilians so good despite having disadvantages?

shamans

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I was reading about older world cup tournaments and it just occurred to me, Brazil is really damn good at football. Yeah they don't have the sexiest team right now compared to the 90s and before but I think it's getting there.

So what makes them so damn good? They have the most world cups. Everyone else on that list is nation that does economically much better than Brazil so that means better infrastructure and general diet and health. It's not like Brazilians are known for highly disciplined teams as well with a ton of off the field issues.

Also, compared to other successful nations, their league is not the quality of the top European leagues or in close proximity to leagues that good.

What do you all think it is?
 
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Rooney in Paris

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I was reading about older world cup tournaments and it just occurred to me, Brazil is really damn good at football. Yeah they don't have the sexiest team right now compared to the 90s and before but I think it's getting there.

So what makes them so damn good? They have the most world cups. Everyone else on that list is nation that does economically much better than Brazil so that means better infrastructure and general diet and health. It's not like Brazilians are known for highly disciplined tams as well with a ton of off the field issues.

Also, compared to other successful nations, their league is not the quality of the top European leagues or in close proximity to leagues that good.

What do you all think it is?
The music
 

Ish

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Massive population, obsessed with football sums it up. They have natural talent (not sure if it's genetics or not - could be i guess?). Football being a poor mans sport (i.e. it is actually "cheap" to play compared to a lot of other popular sports) means its accessible to the majority of the population.

Maybe similar to how i guess cricket would be in Pakistan @shamans?
 

Elcabron

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The disadvantages as you put it are really advantages when it comes to football. There is a lot of poverty or close to it in Brazil. The kids there are outside playing football all day long (if they are not out trying to earn money to eat) as opposed to being inside all day playing FIFA on their Xbox.
 

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Success breeds success. They’ve always been pretty close to the best in every generation and always with players regarded as the best in the world in their positions. Their best footballers are treated like gods. What athlete wouldn’t want to be a part of that
 

JJ12

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New Zealand and Rugby Union is similar - maybe even more bizarre given population
 

shamans

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Massive population, obsessed with football sums it up. They have natural talent (not sure if it's genetics or not - could be i guess?). Football being a poor mans sport (i.e. it is actually "cheap" to play compared to a lot of other popular sports) means its accessible to the majority of the population.

Maybe similar to how i guess cricket would be in Pakistan @shamans?
Pakistan is probably the right track. I would say the West Indies of back in the day probably fits the example the best. Domination of the game despite disadvantages.

The disadvantages as you put it are really advantages when it comes to football. There is a lot of poverty or close to it in Brazil. The kids there are outside playing football all day long (if they are not out trying to earn money to eat) as opposed to being inside all day playing FIFA on their Xbox.
African and Asian teams have these disadvantages though and don't quite do as well. Many countries across Africa (centra, north) and middle east have kids playing outside.
 

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I was reading about older world cup tournaments and it just occurred to me, Brazil is really damn good at football. Yeah they don't have the sexiest team right now compared to the 90s and before but I think it's getting there.

So what makes them so damn good? They have the most world cups. Everyone else on that list is nation that does economically much better than Brazil so that means better infrastructure and general diet and health. It's not like Brazilians are known for highly disciplined tams as well with a ton of off the field issues.

Also, compared to other successful nations, their league is not the quality of the top European leagues or in close proximity to leagues that good.

What do you all think it is?
If the richer European teams wouldn't come in for talented players (like Endrick) when they're only 15, their league would be brilliant. Even now I find it quite entertaining to watch, esp. with a couple of teams being consistently good in recent years. Flamengo a few years ago had a brilliant team, that even playing their 77th game of the season, gave a peak Liverpool a very hard time. If all or even just most talents stayed there longer, the league would be great. Also, since Argentina and Brazil don't transfer too many players between them, but rather pick from the other South American countries, I think the level is a pretty good level to enter as a young player. Lots of very young players will get a lot of senior team experience.

Also they have like 210 million people or something like that, and football is absolutely adored there, making it a large crop of players total. They start playing from they're like 3 hours old. They play it on the beaches, they play it on the landing grounds, they play it in the field and in the streets, they play it in the hills. They never stop playing football.

There are huge and iconic clubs domestically. Quite a lot of states have their own big club, or several, and quite a lot of lower level clubs will get to play the big clubs in regional championships, which I think will make the path to a big club seem shorter to walk. Easy to aspire to. Each state sort of have their own eco-system when it comes to football, and a lot of clubs put a lot of effort into producing young players. There are even investors and agents that buy into football talent schools and help scouting, in the hopes of making a profit when they unearth and produce a gem. Renan Lodi is an example of a player that came through in such a way. Big clubs start scouting and recruiting quite young, talent schools and similar start even earlier, in order to sell players on by the time they're 14-15.

Lots of reasons.
 

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Massive population coupled with the high status football has in the culture.
 

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New Zealand and Rugby Union is similar - maybe even more bizarre given population
If you have ever been to New Zealand you would quickly understand why they are so good. It is like an obsession over there - every bar you go into has rugby on, its the sport everybody talks about. Probably more than any other country I have ever visited.
 

Eplel

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It's the adversity that makes them rise to the challenge. The ones that do overcome it are destined to become great.

For example, Ronaldinho used to play football with a tennis ball and a dog as a defender. If you master that, then playing with an actual ball while wearing shoes will be a piece of cake.
 

JPRouve

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The league and its supposed strength isn't actually a factor people overestimate the actual gap between leagues by focusing on less than a handful of teamsand ignoring the fact that players largely play against similar level of opposition when we are talking about the best football nations. Now brazilian players have a great football education whether we are talking about beach soccer, Futsal or organized Football, they have good coaches that we don't necessarily consider but are not worse than the ones in Europe(outside of a handful of top managers). Also brazilian teams are rarely filled with soloist and they do have an history of developing good defensive/balanced defenders and midfielders.
 

JJ12

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If you have ever been to New Zealand you would quickly understand why they are so good. It is like an obsession over there - every bar you go into has rugby on, its the sport everybody talks about. Probably more than any other country I have ever visited.
I understand it’s their obsession but to constantly dominate and be able to field 2/3 quality teams is crazy given their population - I also understand Rugby isn’t really a worldwide sport so a bit easier to dominate
 

JPRouve

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New Zealand and Rugby Union is similar - maybe even more bizarre given population
It's not strange and as a welsh you should understand. It's a lot stranger that the same three welsh families keep creating internationals though. How many Jones, Williams and Thomas are you guys hiding? :D
 

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I read somewhere before that in terms of footballing ability, it was partly down to the combination of different nationalities and cultures that have moved there and mixed over generations. Football became a way for the different cultures to accept each other and mix right down through society. For a long time, it was just the rich white peopke that were allowed to play.

As these cultures mixed, the game became more popular. Football became more about flair and exitement, people wanted entertainment. This came from the African side, that developed from bringing the Samba dancing style and movements into football. Which produced the flair that is associated with Brazilian football.

Gradually different races became more accepted, it made for a perfect soup of styles from all over the world that mixed together and balanced out on the pitch to produce great football.
 

Maluco

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It’s three fold. Lots of kids played football all day every day on muddy, uneven pitches with no shoes on. Even today, you pass by pitches at midnight and games are going on.

They also love their futsal. I thought I was a decent player until I tried it. The close control and speed of the game is another level. I embarrassed myself.

For a lot of people in difficult conditions, technique is honed by years and years of playing constantly from a very young age with hard balls and bare feet.

People here are fanatical about the game and football shirts are everywhere, men, women and children. It’s basically a religion.
 

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  • Population
  • Climate
  • Culture
  • Athleticism (yeah joga bonito and all that, but Brazil has an impressive record of producing brilliant athletes, particularly across the back 4)
 

JJ12

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It's not strange and as a welsh you should understand. It's a lot stranger that the same three welsh families keep creating internationals though. How many Jones, Williams and Thomas are you guys hiding? :D
We have never won a world cup - nevermind dominate year in year out

Thank ruck for those families
 

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A couple of great past Brazilian players put some of it down to playing from a really young age but being really poor, so they played without shoes- often on sandy beaches. And it’s difficult to even walk on soft sand never mind play football! So they had to be skilful, when they got really good at that, playing in shoes on grass was piss easy.
 

mu4c_20le

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A couple of great past Brazilian players put some of it down to playing from a really young age but being really poor, so they played without shoes- often on sandy beaches. And it’s difficult to even walk on soft sand never mind play football! So they had to be skilful, when they got really good at that, playing in shoes on grass was piss easy.
Yeah but they aren't the only poor country in the world. SE asia for example and they aren't anywhere near
 

JPRouve

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We have never won a world cup - nevermind dominate year in year out

Thank ruck for those families
The World Cup only started in the late 80s and NZ has as much World Cups as South Africa. You have won 28 "Six" Nations have largely been the best NH nation, you are genuinely great at Rugby.
 

avgp_1

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First of all numbers, there are tons of footballers and level of competition brings about quality surely.

Then the league, I don't really believe is a disadvantage because the best players break through a lot earlier and get to play competetive football against still more than decent players. And the good ones move abroad without being held back as soon as they are old enough and then play top level European football. It's a win win.

Brazil has the unique advantage among the footballing nations of having a good percentage of population having both the European and African heredity. It's what I think Pele said so, the raw inate ability of the Africans with the old school European style of play
 

JJ12

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The World Cup only started in the late 80s and NZ has as much World Cups as South Africa. You have won 28 "Six" Nations have largely been the best NH nation, you are genuinely great at Rugby.
We aren’t comparable to New Zealand - I don’t think we’ve beaten them in 60 years ffs
 

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Size of the population: 212 million.

Love of football: it's numero uno with nothing else even close. Playing in the street is the only option for entertainment for most kids.

Football culture: it prioritises flair. If you think of the Normal Distributions for different abilities, only a handful of kids are going to have the requisite amounts of athleticism, mentality and technique to make it in the game. By skewing the distribution of technique towards the extreme, it raises the number who meet the cutoff level for ability on the ball. This may mean that some youth players fall through the gaps because they missed out on physical or mental training early on in their lives. But the sheer size of the population (point 1) and the overwhelming love of the game (point 2) are enough to make up for those losses. And if they're a natural athlete with a natural workhorse mentality anyway, they're probably going to be very good.
 

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Yeah but they aren't the only poor country in the world. SE asia for example and they aren't anywhere near
Good point but I’m not sure they’re as obsessed with football in SE Asia as they’re are in Brazil from such a young age. Football is life in Brazil, not sure it is as strong in other poorer countries. Someone else from those necks of the woods would be better to correct me if I’m wrong though.
 

TheLord

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The football playing population of Brazil is more than that of the sum total of Europe. Unsurprising that they ALWAYS had so many unbelievable talents.

And they're all football obsessed as well, unlike in many parts of Asia.
 

mu4c_20le

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Good point but I’m not sure they’re as obsessed with football in SE Asia as they’re are in Brazil from such a young age. Football is life in Brazil, not sure it is as strong in other poorer countries. Someone else from those necks of the woods would be better to correct me if I’m wrong though.
I don't doubt that's how those Brazilian legends started, but there's also one key thing they all have in common: support from their families. IMO it's much more common to send their kids hundreds of miles for a shot at an athletic career over there than in other countries especially where football isn't as popular. Without that support, it's very difficult to succeed for young kids.
 

JPRouve

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We aren’t comparable to New Zealand - I don’t think we’ve beaten them in 60 years ffs
Of course you are not but you are still a great Rugby nation despite having the smallest federation in the top nations. And how you didn't beat them is a miracle more than an accurate description of your position in Rugby. You have a third of the amount of registered players that New Zealand have, New Zealandare a big nation(third) when it comes to numbers of registered players. Among the succesful nations, Wales and Australia are the ones that are exceptional because you both have a small pool and had comparatively lots of success.
 

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I would say obsession for football, kids on the street playing it because there are no barriers to entry and population are key factors. These things mean there is basically a massive talent pool. Then you throw in the fact that although they're not a "rich" country, they still have a sufficient footballing infrastructure to get kids to the top clubs.

Don't think it's anything to do with genetics or stuff like that to be honest. I think it's weight of numbers.
 

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This is an interesting one because you can look within South America to compare with say, Argentina, and Peru.

If its poverty breeding success we should see more success in Peru and less in Argentina.

If its love for the game we should see success across the board.

If its early football education, we should see much less with Brazil than with Argentina, historically.