Why are Pep and Klopp so dominant in the EPL?

Physiocrat

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The points totals Pep and Klopp are achieving are on average much higher than what Fergie achieved when he won all his EPLs. The question is why? Here are a few possibilities:

1) The EPL is weaker now
2) Pep and Klopp have better individuals in their first XIs than Fergie's sides did
3) Pep and Klopp have more squad depth that allows them to maintain a higher average standard
4) They are better coached/ play a style which is more consistent in steam rolling the weaker EPL sides

Are they any other options? Which factor makes the most difference? Or is my premise wrong about Pep and Klopp being that different?
 

Spaghetti

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Oh yay another thread to wank over Pep and Klopp. They’ve spent a crazy amount of money, with the right people working behind the scenes to get the right players. United have spent a lot of money, but spent it on the wrong players.

Also, at the time of writing, Klopp has won 1 title.
 

Trezeguet17

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I think the time has come to discuss if the forum should be renamed to either Pep/Klopp/City or Liverpoolcafe
 

Samid

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They’ve got unlimited access to the Dr. Cugats of this world.
 

kthanksbye

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They're good managers, top 3 in the world right now, hired by clubs who understood their worth and created the right atmosphere for them, gave them the money to spend, let them get rid of the players they didn't want, didn't turn players into immovable assets on high salaries, did not force them to make signings for marketing purposes. Both those managers have been matched with the right clubs, things have just fallen into place really well for both these clubs.
 

matsdf

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I feel like Ferige was more pragmatic and less tied down to one philosophy/playing style (not necessarily saying P&K are one dimensional). Probably why he was more record breaking for his longevity, and not single seasons.
 

gajender

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I feel like Ferige was more pragmatic and less tied down to one philosophy/playing style (not necessarily saying P&K are one dimensional). Probably why he was more record breaking for his longevity, and not single seasons.
I believe there is much simpler reason for it he basically didn't care for such records and didn't fanatically chase points total like Guardiola and Klopp.
 

do.ob

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Probably because both are better coaches than Ferguson and in Pep's case also because he has ridiculous funding behind him.
 

Physiocrat

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Probably because both are better coaches than Ferguson and in Pep's case also because he has ridiculous funding behind him.
Does they have better players than the Utd 07/08 side?
 

BAMSOLA

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The majority of their players understand the way they're being asked to play inside out after more than 4 seasons of being coached by them. They have also had enough time at those clubs to ensure that every player in their squad is there because they been either personally chosen by the manager or because the manager feels they serve the overall cause.
 

Tavern in the town

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I believe there is much simpler reason for it he basically didn't care for such records and didn't fanatically chase points total like Guardiola and Klopp.
This doesn’t make sense. Was Fergie deliberately dropping points because he wasn’t obsessed with points totals? Or was he trying to win every game we played, just like Pep and Klopp are trying to?
 

Oranges038

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Who cares, nobody will dominate like Fergie did with Utd.

Pl title went
SAF vs Daglish - SAF won out.
SAF vs Keegan - SAF won out.
SAF vs Wenger - SAF won out.
SAF vs Jose & Chelsea's billions - SAF won out.
SAF vs Whoever City had & all their billions - SAF won out & retired.

I have no doubt that SAF would find a way to beat these two gowls too if he were still around.
 

gajender

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This doesn’t make sense. Was Fergie deliberately dropping points because he wasn’t obsessed with points totals? Or was he trying to win every game we played, just like Pep and Klopp are trying to?
No but sometimes he did play for a point away from home and also once title was secured his teams relaxed a bit as well .
 

matsdf

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This doesn’t make sense. Was Fergie deliberately dropping points because he wasn’t obsessed with points totals? Or was he trying to win every game we played, just like Pep and Klopp are trying to?
He was a master of "just enough".
 

Andycoleno9

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Klopp dominant? Is this because of this new trend/obsession with points? Klopp won one league and one league cup in 6 years ffs.
Pep is dominant. Klopp is not even close to Jose or Wenger. One (1!!) league ffs!
 

do.ob

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Klopp dominant? Is this because of this new trend/obsession with points? Klopp won one league and one league cup in 6 years ffs.
Pep is dominant. Klopp is not even close to Jose or Wenger. One (1!!) league ffs!
Liverpool are clearly dominating the PL, the fact that there's an even bigger bully in Pep's City around doesn't change that. It just means that they aren't being rewarded with silverware for it. And Klopp's CL performance further underlines that.
 

MVBDX

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There were rarely any super teams (super squads) at the time, so naturally the gap between them and the rest is bigger than before, with higher points, more GA etc. being commonplace now.
 
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Bebestation

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They execute the best tactics in world football.

Both happen to be in England.
 

Andycoleno9

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Liverpool are clearly dominating the PL, the fact that there's an even bigger bully in Pep's City around doesn't change that. It just means that they aren't being rewarded with silverware for it. And Klopp's CL performance further underlines that.
No, the fact is that Klopp won 1 league and one league cup in England in 6 years. That is THE fact. Trophies are facts in sports.
So, Klopp (despite being excellent manager and stuff) is not dominant. Far from it.
 

Tottenhamguy

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Pretty sure a thread like this was created a week ago.
 

duffer

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Liverpool had 1 league title in decades and finished on something like 69 points just last season.

They're a very, very good side but I wouldn't call them "dominant in the EPL".
 

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They channel their strength from every redcafe thread about them.
 

Steve Bruce

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I think pep and klopp deserve respect as they do have two fantastic sides.

However, I think timing is everything. They have came in at a time United, Chelsea & arsenal have all fallen away at varying degrees and Liverpool and city have capitalized on this.

The fact Leicester where able to win the league in recent times suggest a lot of transition has occurred in the league recently.

I do think in the coming few years if spurs keep Conte, Ten Hag can steer United in the right directions, arsenal and Chelsea continue to improve the league will be a lot more competitive.

If you look at spurs, United and arsenal over the last few years inclusive of this one, how are they challenging for the champions league spots? This imo shows that the league as a whole is relatively poor...

There's 2 top sides, 1 very good side and then mediocre to rubbish sides after that.
 

RedDF

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What really separates Fergie from those 2 is I doubt they can win a league title with Darron Gibson in midfield.
 

Steve Bruce

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What really separates Fergie from those 2 is I doubt they can win a league title with Darron Gibson in midfield.
And cleverly Anderson midfield, Carrick in defence alongside other midfielders at times.
 

harms

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You only have to beat your competition. Fergie was extremely pragmatic in that way — if Chelsea or Arsenal were getting 90+ point each season, he’d have adapted.

Generally the margin between the top clubs & the rest has widened over the past few decades, especially financial-wise. First it was Spain where Madrid was pushing Barca forward and vice versa, now it came to PL.

Pep’s emergence has also coincided (or, rather, was the catalyst for) with a significant change in the way that most top teams now approach the game. The combination of possession-based football & gegen-pressing leaves little to no chance to underdogs now — and other modern managers like Klopp, Flick & Tuchel had shown that this system, with some tweaks, can be implemented anywhere if done right.
 

Dancfc

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I believe there is much simpler reason for it he basically didn't care for such records and didn't fanatically chase points total like Guardiola and Klopp.
I don't think Klopp would have been that type of manager either. He just had to adapt to the demands of facing such a City side in the league.

Once they were too far ahead of City in 19/20 they relaxed a bit.

It's easy to forget that in 2018 that it was just Pep and Klopp just scraped 4th and was considered no where near his level, nothing to say one of the current managers below can't mastermind their way into that conversation, hopefully ours.
 

harms

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This doesn’t make sense. Was Fergie deliberately dropping points because he wasn’t obsessed with points totals? Or was he trying to win every game we played, just like Pep and Klopp are trying to?
He certainly wasn’t trying to win every league game with the biggest score possible. Otherwise he’d have fielded his best XI more often — or even had a clear best XI. Just look at our line ups game-by-game, even at how many times did the legendary trio of Cristiano, Rooney & Tevez actually started together. Fergie was always conserving his squad’s strength — he would also often begin the season in a very reserved fashion, only truly getting up to speed after February.

He also didn’t have the ridiculous squad depth of City (or even today’s Liverpool), but it was enough for the time.
 

Leftback99

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They have the best players. Liverpool through excellent scouting and recruitment. City mainly through unlimited funds.
 

VidaRed

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Because we're down the shitter, if we weren't then things would be different. Last season the dippers shat themselves because we went ahead of them at christmas.

Give ten hag complete control for a season or two and see how klopp and pep feck off when they end up without them big trophies.
 

gajender

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I don't think Klopp would have been that type of manager either. He just had to adapt to the demands of facing such a City side in the league.

Once they were too far ahead of City in 19/20 they relaxed a bit.

It's easy to forget that in 2018 that it was just Pep and Klopp just scraped 4th and was considered no where near his level, nothing to say one of the current managers below can't mastermind their way into that conversation, hopefully ours.
That's fair point as well Klopp rose to Challenge posed by Guardiola hopefully Likes of Tuchel and Ten Hag can do the same they are certainly at the Club's where resources shouldn't be the problem in near future