Why are we buying a CB when it's arguably our strongest position?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Adam-Utd, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. Aug 6, 2018
    #1

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    We have 4/5 good quality CB in Bailly,Smalling,Lindelof,Jones/Rojo.

    Yes they can be improved upon, but we had a very good defensive record last year, defending isn't our problem.

    As we know our lack of goals is a big problem, without Lukaku we struggle to score consistently. Watching this team there's a stand out position we need desperate improvement.

    RW -

    This is a huge problem area for me. The only player remotely able to play there is Mata. While we have control of a match and possession he can be effective drifting across the front line, but in matches where it's even or we're struggling to keep the ball he is just pointless. He isn't an individual threat, he can't carry the ball up the pitch at any dangerous speed.

    With Sanchez/Rashford/Martial all wanting to cut inside and shoot, having another player that wants to come inside just doesn't work. We need to have somebody keep the width and provide an option to switch play.

    Yes people will say "but our fullbacks provide the width", while they can often by the point they join the attack it's already slowed down.

    IMO I feel Mourinho wanted Willian this year, but Chelsea have played hardball and Woodward won't pay 70m (quite rightly).

    We need a skilful/speedy ball carrier that would really give new life to this team.

    Mahrez (would have been perfect) / Bailey / Sarr / Dembele / Zaha / Perisic would all improve this team so much.

    I really hope they've got a surprise in the bag for us in the last week of the window.
  2. Aug 6, 2018
    #2

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    I don't quite understand this either. A quality FB and a quality RW should have higher priority.
  3. Aug 6, 2018
    #3

    Bastian Full Member

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    This has been discussed to death. Defensive record is only a fragment of the equation. Playing out from the back, dealing with a high press, shepherding defense are all major issues for us. We've not had a settled back 4 for years.
  4. Aug 6, 2018
    #4

    Kostov Full Member

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    You sir are speaking too much sense. We need right sided winger for a couple of seasons now, it's baffling, and frankly I don't give a feck anymore. I'll just cover that side of the TV with a blanket, I can't take it watching Mata/Lingard trying to play there.
  5. Aug 6, 2018
    #5

    noodlehair "It's like..."

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    I don't think the plan is to buy a centreback and not buy an attacking player. At least not as far as Jose is concerned. It's just that with CB there are actually one or two options we have a semi realistic chance of signing.

    If we can't get an attacking player regardless, it doesn't really make sense to not try and sign a centreback either just because it's less important.
  6. Aug 6, 2018
    #6

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    This idea that once Jose gets a ball playing CB he'll commit to playing out from the back is unfounded to me.

    There is nothing that would point to that occurring.
  7. Aug 6, 2018
    #7

    Yellow Black & Red New Member

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    Liverpool have been able to play much more attractive attacking football with a GK and CBs equally as average, if not worse, with the ball at their feet than the options Utd have, so it's not just that.

    LB and RW are much more concerning. You can get away with not having the most creative CBs if the other players can create, but Utd have too many players in key positions unable to beat a man or deliver a good final ball.
  8. Aug 6, 2018
    #8

    slir32 Full Member

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    The only think i can think of is Jose wants a leader in the back line. Maybe if he trusts the back line his tactics might not me as defensive.
  9. Aug 6, 2018
    #9

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    It's down to De Gea that our defensive record is passable, how people cant understand this is beyond me. Breaking down our CB's

    Bailly - good but injury prone
    Lindelof - potentially good but still showing signs of needing to settle
    Smalling - ok but certainly not good enough
    Jones - see above plus always injured
    Rojo - same as above

    For a Jose Mourinho team that wants to play counter attacking football the above just isn't good enough
  10. Aug 6, 2018
    #10

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    Our CBs are massively overrated in here. However LB should be our first priority, followed by RW.
  11. Aug 6, 2018
    #11

    Siorac Full Member

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    It's certainly an odd notion. Nothing in Mourinho's career suggests something like that will happen any time soon.
  12. Aug 6, 2018
    #12

    Stactix Full Member

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    De Gea made the most saves in the league.
    That should tell you everything you need to know about our CB's.
  13. Aug 6, 2018
    #13

    12OunceEpilogue Full Member Scout

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    That could very much be the case. I would certainly favour a RW coming in, as we literally don't have one at the club, a RB then a LB before I'd look at a CB. However if the only quality players we can realistically add in these last few days are CBs then let's do it.
  14. Aug 6, 2018
    #14

    Siorac Full Member

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    Well he did say in January that we were not going to buy an attacking player.
  15. Aug 6, 2018
    #15

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    We literally played the FA Cup final with Young, Jones, Smalling and Valencia

    That defence is definitely settled.
  16. Aug 6, 2018
    #16

    daniel.moore93 New Member

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    I think we only have support Centerbacks.
    If We can get a leader CenterBack such as Bonucci, our current rotation is enough.
  17. Aug 6, 2018
    #17

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots Scout

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    Agreed there are much bigger issues needing to be addressed. But we do need a solid, reliable (both in terms of injuries and footballing intelligence) CB.
  18. Aug 6, 2018
    #18

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

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    We lack a CB leader. We lack dorminance in the air there
  19. Aug 6, 2018
    #19

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

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    United's recent history proves that this concept is wrong. LVG used worse players and also a part of the current players in the way that you are describing and at the time the problem was a below par midfield and attacking personnel, the transition from defense to midfield was our most reliable quality. Our problem still concerns our attacking organization and the ineptitude of our midfield to efficiently support the attack and the defense, we lack aggression, creativity and urgency.
  20. Aug 6, 2018
    #20

    settembrini Full Member

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    Because Mourinho is bad at identifying which areas of the team are weak (and need money spending on them) and which are strong (and don't).

    He showed this last summer when he neglected left back and right wing to instead replace our player of the season and buy another back-up CB. He showed it again in January when he signed another left winger when it was clear right wing was the problem in attack and he's showing it again this summer by spending the bulk of our budget on the central positions again when our flanks are the biggest problem.
  21. Aug 6, 2018
    #21

    Henrik Larsson Still logged in at RAWK (help!)

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    Surely it's pretty obvious we've got more quality in centre midfield, and also in attack as things stand? I don't see how CB is our strongest position. Then there's the problem that our CB's have quite a bad history of injuries, even currently.

    Also, how dare we try and strengthen our team? But seriously, like people have said it seems to be more about realistically attainable than prioritising anyway.
  22. Aug 6, 2018
    #22

    Siorac Full Member

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    There is a difference between having been here a long time and being settled though. That back four rarely played together as such.

    I do think though that Mourinho wanting a third CB in as many summer windows is close to taking the piss.
  23. Aug 6, 2018
    #23

    Kostur Full Member

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    Because 3 of them are injury prone and the overall quality is questionable?
  24. Aug 6, 2018
    #24

    Siorac Full Member

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    We have Mata and Lingard to play RW. That's far worse than the CB situation.
  25. Aug 6, 2018
    #25

    Chip Butty New Member

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    Is it just the defenders that create a good defensive record or the system thats deployed in front of them? It should be an ideal of defence and attack balance of 50/50, but I would say in reality its more 60/40. Which says get better defenders and change the system.

    Just a thought.
  26. Aug 6, 2018
    #26

    RoyH1 Full Member

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    I don't our Cb's are as good as some people here in the CAF rate them to be honest.

    This offseason has been a sellers market anyway. Hard to get what one wants.
  27. Aug 6, 2018
    #27

    TMDaines Full Member

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    I don't know. I see our defensive issues as being more a product of poor transitions into defence, rather than individuals of insufficient quality. Look at the ease with which opposition get down the pitch and get at our back four, and how difficult we find it to do the same. The relationship between the midfield and the defence is the biggest area for defensive improvement, and would greatly reduce the amount of shots conceded. De Gea performed a miracle last season conceding as few as he did.

    If Alderweireld is a leader, he could maybe improve us there, but I'm not enthralled. He's fine. By no means a world class centre back though. He'll make little difference to our performance alone.
  28. Aug 6, 2018
    #28

    r3idy Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Agree that there are more pressing issues to address int he team, most noticeably the Fullback area. Not overly fussed about a right winger if I am being honest.

    However, there are only two CBs who I rate at the club and that's Bailly( Is he made of glass) and Lindelof. Yes I can hear the cries of derision about Lindelof. But he's not commanding, he makes mistakes, he's no better than Smalling or Jones and I agree with all of that 100%.

    He certainly isn't any worse than Smalling or Jones. He has years on his side and he is improving and will improve more. He can play the ball out a lot better than Smalling or Jones that's for sure. He doesn't get flustered under pressure
  29. Aug 6, 2018
    #29

    Gopher Brown Full Member

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    I understand that a team is never ‘complete’ and there will always be areas to try and improve, but it feels like the problems Jose inherited when he took over 2 years ago - LB, RW, CB - are still our problem areas and we’ve made no progress in trying to fix them.

    Whether the players actually exist to improve us (in Jose’s mind) I have no idea.
  30. Aug 6, 2018
    #30

    12OunceEpilogue Full Member Scout

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    Fair enough but do you think not having a right winger at the club and 30+ year olds as our first choice fullbacks is conducive to great counter attacking football? I accept your point but we're slow as shit in transition, having the speed to leave the CBs exposed in the first place would actually be a fine thing.
  31. Aug 6, 2018
    #31

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    It's strong in quantity but not in quality and reliability (fitness)
  32. Aug 6, 2018
    #32

    Henrik Larsson Still logged in at RAWK (help!)

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    Well maybe, but at least in case of emergency we could also play Sanchez, Rashford or even Lukaku there...
  33. Aug 6, 2018
    #33

    CM10 Full Member

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    One of life's mysteries. Our defenders all play in a deep block anyway so ball playing ability really doesn't take on great importance in this setup.

    It makes no sense paying £50m+ for the privilege when as you say, we're genuinely awful in attack and severely in need of a right winger. I've sort of made peace with it though and just accepted we're going to be dreadful to watch (again) this season.
  34. Aug 6, 2018
    #34

    Sarni nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.

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    I agree that we have other pressing needs but it might be more difficult to address them as the market isn't really stocked with talented wingers and forwards. We have a realistic shot at signing a very good center half who would improve us in Alderweireld, if we had a similar chance to sign someone like Willian or Perisic to add to our offensive depth then we would probably also do that. Mourinho probably wants 2 or even 3 players, it just appears that only one of them is realistically available and this happens to be a defender.
  35. Aug 6, 2018
    #35

    Siorac Full Member

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    And we have five centre-backs. We don't even have to play anyone out of position to field two unless there's a massive injury crisis.
  36. Aug 6, 2018
    #36

    Delano New Member

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    CB is an area of weakness and we've been exposed big time in games where the we don't sit in from minute 1 (See Spurs at Wembley). So I do agree with Jose in the fact that we need an experienced player with higher quality then what we already have.

    But the fact is, our biggest area of weakness is right wing, and going into the new season with no specialist on that side of the field is criminal.
  37. Aug 6, 2018
    #37

    Mainoldo Full Member

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    I feel we need that next quality up and a proper leader. I would say ball playing CB but these hoof ballers were fake ball players under LVG. So i don’t think that’s a problem if we want them to play that way.
  38. Aug 6, 2018
    #38

    CG1010 Full Member

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    Our strongest position is GK, CM and then SK in that order. But ya I agree if we had to get only one player, it wouldn't certainly be CB. Would be a Wideman for sure
  39. Aug 6, 2018
    #39

    JJ12 Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

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    In my opinion our defensive record isn’t an indication of how good the back 4 is (although it isn’t terrible) but more to the point that we defended as a team. If Jose can trust his CB pairing more maybe he will feel he can be more adventurous with the way the team play
  40. Aug 6, 2018
    #40

    Henrik Larsson Still logged in at RAWK (help!)

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    Yeah but we don't exactly have the CB equivalent of Sanchez, Lukaku, Pogba, Matic in terms of individual quality and maturity now have we? Also, I don't know how bad Rojo and Bailly are injured, but it seems like currently we're one Phil Jones Phil Jonesing himself away from only having Smalling and Lindelof for the start of the season, with Valencia injured too.