Why are we buying a CB when it's arguably our strongest position?

[Ødegaard]

Another one of these stupid threads?
Goddammit caf, get your shit together.

 

[Bastian]

I kind of agree with what you are saying but the nuance is that I don't think that you put enough emphasis on midfield. Would you agree with that statement: Transition is the primary role of a midfield while it is a secondary role for every other position group.
I'm not suggesting that the others shouldn't improve but the reality is that your tactical approach will influence how much transition is important as a secondary role for your attackers and defenders but it will always be the primary role of your midfield. So when your midfield fails at his primary role, you should focus on that.

By the way, in the context of transition, I include DM/AM/wingers in midfield, so I make a difference between a 451 and a 433 for example.

Yeah, I agree with that. And I expect us to go into the season with an asymmetrical line up, as in, an incompetent left back until we get a right-footed one back. No actual width on the right and predictable movement on the left. So to have anything resembling a decent season Pogba-Matic-Fred will need to gel and serve up pure quality. I'm not holding my breath for any sort of title challenge.

 

[bonsaiboy]

So Mourinho is now only allowed to try to sign one player at a time, concentrating first on what we think is the weakest position? Yes, a lot of stories in the press are about CBs, but that's because it's a position that they're confident we're trying to fill, and there are a number of obvious candidates. Given that it's also going to be one of the easiest positions to fill, it concerns me that there'll be a huge meltdown if it's the only signing we do between now and the end of the season.

What we tend to forget is that most transfers aren't done via the media, and the only way you know about them happening is if someone leaks it. We clearly sometimes leak to the press - e.g. if we're trying to put pressure on a selling club - but in other cases we won't hear a thing about a transfer until negotiations are well under way. If we happen to not make any more signings, that's not an indication that we weren't trying. It may just be that the players Mourinho wanted aren't available and he's not willing to settle for anyone else.

 

[Claus10]

Your defense under Pochettino / Klopp / Guardiola would crumble if they were exposed to that kind of tactics. The reason why you have so few goals against is not because of your defense but your world class keeper PLUS Mourinhos defensive style.

The whole team is very compact when United has the result Mourinho wants. That makes it very difficult to score against.

A ball playing DC will not change Mourinhos negative style one bit, but it will of course do something good for the team. I totally understand the frustration on the forum. The fullbacks should really be upgraded. And a winger.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

I feel that you are being too simplistic, particularly when this issue isn't limited to our defenders but everyone in the team. Everyone on the caf has complained about the lack of availability and passing options provided to the ball carrier and our defenders aren't different, they don't have options when they are on the ball and will be under pressure when pressed because there is no simple exit options other than hoofing it. This comes back to our piss poor midfield organization, the ones that can't create, recycle, press or cover.
I have said it since 2014, in football center midfield is everything if you are not sound in that area everyone else will suffer. If we fix it, we won't complain about attackers not playing like DMs and defenders not being wannabe play makers because it's not there primary roles. It's probably the thing that bothers me the most and why I end up defending Smalling or Martial like I do, for some reason we refuse to point to the most obvious weakness and focus on things that aren't even universal among top teams. We are shit in transition because our midfield is shit, not the players but the actual midfield, it's one of the worst unit I have seen at a big club.

I don't disagree, our centre midfield unit being off has adversely affected our play at both ends of the field for a long time. However we've added Pogba, Matic and Fred in the past couple of years and we have Herrera and likes of Fellaini, McTominay and Pereira to potentially do different jobs for us in the centre (to varying degrees in terms of quality and/or experience). At what point do we have to accept that another midfield addition isn't going to help us transition quicker and with more quality when we don't have a right winger and our fullbacks cannot bomb on like they used to?

 

[RedPed]

It's down to De Gea that our defensive record is passable, how people cant understand this is beyond me. Breaking down our CB's

Bailly - good but injury prone
Lindelof - potentially good but still showing signs of needing to settle
Smalling - ok but certainly not good enough
Jones - see above plus always injured
Rojo - same as above

For a Jose Mourinho team that wants to play counter attacking football the above just isn't good enough

It's not rocket science is it?? All the defensive stats being thrown about as if we have this awesome backline, when in reality De Gea has saved our ass so many times is ridiculous. It really is baffling why people refuse to accept this.

If getting rid of Smalling, Jones, Rojo and Darmian means we can seriously upgrade on defence, that's got to be a good thing.

 

[Matt007a]

The defensive record is good because Jose plays with the handbrake on at all times. It's not because we have a great back 4 at all. Having said that I would say we need a RW and full backs more than we do another CB. So many goals come from overlapping fullbacks these days and ours are not really capable of that. Young is a good crosser, but doesn't have the legs to bomb up and down really. Valencia is quick enough to do that but his final delivery is shocking.

Alderweireld and Maguire would be improvements on what we have, but they should hardly be priority #1.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't disagree, our centre midfield unit being off has adversely affected our play at both ends of the field for a long time. However we've added Pogba, Matic and Fred in the past couple of years and we have Herrera and likes of Fellaini, McTominay and Pereira to potentially do different jobs for us in the centre (to varying degrees in terms of quality and/or experience). At what point do we have to accept that another midfield addition isn't going to help us transition quicker and with more quality when we don't have a right winger and our fullbacks cannot bomb on like they used to?

And here you have the problem, it's not about adding players but making the current ones working efficiently, individually there is nothing wrong with our midfielders, the problem is with the way they play as a unit.

 

[RedPed]

I'm always amazed when posters reveal they don't actually watch us anymore. How anyone could call Smalling shit and then proceed to call Jones 'less shit' and Rojo 'good sometimes' is beyond me.

That's a pretty spot on assessment to be fair to the guy.

 

[sherrinford]

Yeah but we don't exactly have the CB equivalent of Sanchez, Lukaku, Pogba, Matic in terms of individual quality and maturity now have we? Also, I don't know how bad Rojo and Bailly are injured, but it seems like currently we're one Phil Jones Phil Jonesing himself away from only having Smalling and Lindelof for the start of the season, with Valencia injured too.

Sanchez, Lukaku, Pogba and Matic are not good quality right wingers. Neither are Mata, Lingard, Rashford or Martial. The quality of our centre half options simply exceeds that of our options for that position on the right side of attack. Yes we have good players elsewhere, but in terms of problem positions, the right side of attack is clearly the weakest area of our team.

 

[mitchmouse]

we need a winger.. in fat we need two but if we must go for a CB, Toby A is surely the best bet

 

[Mr Anderson]

Strongest position? I don’t think so. Having to rely on Smalling, Jones and Rojo is never a good thing. Smalling and Jones are just not true leaders. Neither could lace Stam, Rio’s or Vidics boots.

Bailly and Linde have promise but also are still learning. We need a leader in there for sure.

 

[devilish]

I wouldn't say he's the weakest but if he could be consistent he'd be a lot better than Smalling and Jones.

He gave us 4 months of solid football in 4 years. Smalling and Jones are not world class but they are better then that.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Another one of these stupid threads?
Goddammit caf, get your shit together.

Great reply.

We aren't linked with any wide attacking players, anybody watching us can see having Mata run around like an OAP trying to get involved is ridiculous.

Chong isn't ready yet but when he came on he atleast caused a few problems, heck even Mctominay up there did better.

Yes CB can be strengthened as I mentioned, but the fact we don't seem remotely interested in strengthening our attack with some speed / skill is very worrying.

Compare our attacks to City / Liverpool or even Tottenham and our options are poor.

 

[Marcelinho87]

I don't think it is our strongest position at all.

I actually think we are really poor defensively and the only reason stats look good is due to the man in goal.

 

[noodlehair]

I would hope Zlatan was irrelevant to his plans - surely he couldn't have expected him to stay beyond this summer?

Martial... well he replaced him with Sanchez after spending half a summer trying to replace him with Perisic so once again, it is doubtful if he was a part of the plan. If there ever was a plan. Though yes, he did mention Martial when he said we wouldn't spend on attacking players. He's been a peripheral figure for a while now though. Replacing a squad player is unlikely to be a huge priority.

Well considering how many times he mentioned Zlatan, I doubt he was irrelevant to his plans, and plans in January half way through a season, aren't the same as plans during the summer anyway, so I don't really think it's all that relevant.

I also don't think it matters who you have in attack if you don't try to pass the ball to them, which has been the bigger problem and has also been the problem throughout pre-season.

I also don't think our defence is that great considering how much defending we seem intent on doing.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

CB only looks our strongest position because we play negative football...
Oh and De Gea

It's a bit like Liverpool, I don't doubt their strike force is good, but it looks world class and performs in such a way because of how they set out to play

 

[el3mel]

Even though it's not a priority, don't act like De Gea wasn't the reason for our defense to look that good with his ridiculous saves. Our defense was only good in Mourinho first season, in his second one and in both LVG seasons De Gea made them look good.

 

[99withaflake]

Strongest position? I don’t think so. Having to rely on Smalling, Jones and Rojo is never a good thing. Smalling and Jones are just not true leaders. Neither could lace Stam, Rio’s or Vidics boots.

Bailly and Linde have promise but also are still learning. We need a leader in there for sure.

Smalling, Jones and Rojo couldn’t lace Bruce or Pally’s boots. None have hit the performance levels or consistency needed to be a great United centre back. Fingers crossed for Bailly and Lindelof. Big season for them both.

 

[Mr Anderson]

Smalling, Jones and Rojo couldn’t lace Bruce or Pally’s boots. None have hit the performance levels or consistency needed to be a great United centre back. Fingers crossed for Bailly and Lindelof. Big season for them both.

Agreed! Would love to see Bailly and Linde given a go together. Just hope Bailly isn’t as injury prone as last year or so. Toby in would be a big plus

 

[Murray3007]

should actually watch our games if you think our CB's is our strongest position. when the whole team are basically defending our stats will look better. could replace any the defenders here and don't think anyone would be gutted seeing them leave.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

And here you have the problem, it's not about adding players but making the current ones working efficiently, individually there is nothing wrong with our midfielders, the problem is with the way they play as a unit.

Agreed, though I'm hopeful Fred will add something new in terms of showing for the ball, carrying it and passing it forwards effectively there's no doubt our midfield could and should have been working better as a unit between phases before now. Fullbacks and indeed centre backs are a related issue, though separate to the point you're making, but as you said earlier you include right and left wingers as part of the midfield unit (fairly in my view) I would say we need to add a proper right-sided attacker to improve our transition. It's not right that the opposition know we're posing next to no threat down that side when they lose possession.

EDIT: To clarify; I agreed with you earlier we don't need a midfield addition but have now said I want a new right winger (i.e. a midfield addition). I meant I agree we don't need a new central midfielder to improve our transition but I'd like a new right sided attacker.

 

[Red00012]

We’ve been laughing at Liverpool for a few years how they haven’t signed a top notch keeper, we’ve gone more or less the same time without a right winger. It’s infuriating a big a club as we are can’t see we need someone to play out there.

 

[AdamAdams]

We sold the best ball playing centre back we had in Blind, I agree fullback / wing back / wide players are this teams biggest weakness plus too much reliance on Lukaku. If he gets insured we're goosed

 

[MrPooni]

A combination of God Mode De Gea and Jose's defensive organisation have convinced people into thinking our centre-halves are way better than they actually are.

 

[Cee90]

We have quantity, not quality at centre back IMO.

I would say central midfield (and goalkeeper) is probably our strongest area.

 

[stevoc]

It wouldn't hurt to sign a top centreback for sure, the bunch we have are not the most reliable fitness wise or of the highest quality but we have 6 of them and no actual right wingers. So the priority should be clear, but i guess most fans see things differently from Mourinho.

The right wing is becoming like central midfield in Fergusons later years. A glaring weakness in the side thats is continually ignored every window, and we just go into each season making do with subpar options in the position hoping for the best.

 

[Siorac]

Well considering how many times he mentioned Zlatan, I doubt he was irrelevant to his plans, and plans in January half way through a season, aren't the same as plans during the summer anyway, so I don't really think it's all that relevant.

I also don't think it matters who you have in attack if you don't try to pass the ball to them, which has been the bigger problem and has also been the problem throughout pre-season.

I also don't think our defence is that great considering how much defending we seem intent on doing.

Well yeah that is true. But if we are hellbent on doing that then even the quality of the defence doesn't matter that much. That sort of football takes you nowhere even if you have Ferdinand and Vidic at CB.

 

[Yellow Black & Red]

Van Dijk is better with the ball at his feet than any of our centre backs.

He's alright, but the difference between him and say Lindelof isn't that significant really - he's not exactly Bonucci now is he? And Liverpool were already playing exciting attacking football before they signed him in Jan (while they mostly used Lovren and Matip).

 

[Bestietom]

68 goals last season. We have to improve our forward line. A goalscoring right winger is needed.

 

[Enigma_87]

68 goals last season. We have to improve our forward line. A goalscoring right winger is needed.

Disagree. We need to improve both full back positions, which makes us so predictable up front. Our wing play is shite, because the full backs can't contribute enough going forward. We have plenty of wide forwards who can score loads, including Lukaku, but without the support of top notch full backs we can't really exploit their qualities.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I have no idea. We've even Magiouire Vs Alderwerald for so long and been so desparate for something, this little fact appears to have not been made a big deal out of. We are weak in a couple of areas. CB is not one of them. In fact I wouldn't trade our CBs for any other team in the PL. We've actually got the best set of CBs in English football. So no, I have no fecking clue what the manager is up to.

Yes we could do with a ball playing CB. But there's no chance this should be a priority ahead of LB or RW.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Disagree. We need to improve both full back positions, which makes us so predictable up front. Our wing play is shite, because the full backs can't contribute enough going forward. We have plenty of wide forwards who can score loads, including Lukaku, but without the support of top notch full backs we can't really exploit their qualities.

Both fullback positions? Valencia and Dalot who Jose called the best in his group is enough.

 

[Red_toad]

Buying a new centre half so we can play 6 at the back obviously. Defence is the best form of attack.

 

[Bastian]

He's alright, but the difference between him and say Lindelof isn't that significant really - he's not exactly Bonucci now is he? And Liverpool were already playing exciting attacking football before they signed him in Jan (while they mostly used Lovren and Matip).

Lindelof hasn't proved anything so far though. Could turn out great, could turn out shite.

 

[Enigma_87]

Both fullback positions? Valencia and Dalot who Jose called the best in his group is enough.

Would've preferred someone more established and at his peak if we aren't buying a RW. For example Meunier.

Hopefully Dalot would come good soon enough.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Would've preferred someone more established and at his peak if we aren't buying a RW. For example Meunier.

Hopefully Dalot would come good soon enough.

Sure but now that we have I can't see us signing a third RB until a season or so when Valencia is past it.

As of now LB and RW are clearly the area that need most strengthening and it's really obvious. Which is what makes this CB obsession so odd. Does Jose think the two CBs he's signed are trash or something?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

68 goals last season. We have to improve our forward line. A goalscoring right winger is needed.

Or even a creative one who can set up chances for Pogba, Lukaku and co

The situation is so bad I'd actually even take Shaqiri at this point. Urgh.

 

[Enigma_87]

Sure but now that we have I can't see us signing a third RB until a season or so when Valencia is past it.

As of now LB and RW are clearly the area that need most strengthening and it's really obvious. Which is what makes this CB obsession so odd. Does Jose think the two CBs he's signed are trash or something?

Think the experienced CB's are the issue here. Jones, Smalling, Rojo, etc. All need selling. Both Lindelof and Bailly aren't experienced CB type Jose is looking at IMO. We need one at the back.

I'd happy with Dalot and Valencia if we get RW, but unfortunately it really doesn't look likely at the moment.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Because;
1) all our defenders are average( at best)
2) neither of them except lindelof, can't do simple pass

So because they are all shit, we must play defensive football. When we play open football they are exposed and can't deal with that. Because they are absolutely shit with the ball we can't play from defence like many clubs do. Put a little pressure on mike or phil, they will hoof the ball.
That is why we need toby or some other ball playing defender and should pay for him what it takes even we all now it is not real price.
We all want attacking football, right? For that you need ball playing defenders. You can have ronaldo and messi on wings but if you have defenders who will always hoof ball then those wingers are useless