Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by MyOnlySolskjaer, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. Sep 10, 2019

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    Had that one included, just realized the mistake though. Gonna blame manutd.com on that one :lol: They dont have the league away game against Wolves in their fixture list last season for some reason. Irrelevant either way, but ok. Shit 12 game run last season, amazing 17 game run before that 12 game run. Overall for Ole for half a season? A CL and FA cup quarter final while being 3rd in the league during his time in charge both in real results, and in underlying statistics if you want to look at that.

    Go back to December. If you were told that Ole would have been best of the rest after City and Liverpool in the league, knocked out PSG in the CL but lost to Barca and then beat Chelsea and Arsenal away in the FA cup but lost to Wolves, I'm sure that every single United fan wouldve bitten your arm off for that, considering where we were prior to that. He did that. But no, let's ignore all that right?
  2. Sep 10, 2019

    Seaman New Member

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    If he fails to beat Leicester. Anything but a win against West ham he deserve the sack on the spot. Thats 1 win in 6 league games and add last 2 months ofblast season its enough
  3. Sep 10, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    Very honest, I read till this part and clicked on reply. There is no point reading your post when you don't even know the context of posts.
  4. Sep 10, 2019

    Bestietom Full Member

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    I agree, and hope the rebuild continues in January. We certainly need a Midfielder and a forward.
  5. Sep 10, 2019

    romufc Full Member

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    And how far did they get?

    LVG won FA cup before Jose was brought in.

    Jose was given Pogba, Zlatan, Mikhi, Bailly in his first window.

    LVG was given transfers too.

    We sold Lukaku, Sanchez Herrera
  6. Sep 10, 2019

    hocane New Member

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    I get that it's a rebuild but why accept not beating Palace, Wolves and Soton? If you're saying that's just our level at the moment you are basically saying we're a relegation team.
  7. Sep 10, 2019

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    There is a big difference in taking over at the start of a season vs half way through a season. Thatd be the main part. And no, top 4 or bust is not the standard that everyone had. Top 4 or bust is the last ditch expectation that the manager can cling on to when everything else is failing. When the team plays like shit, when the mood is shit throughout and everyone hates the way the team plays and everything about the club, then yes, its top 4 or bust. If the team is progressing, improving, has a good season but misses out on top 4 by a point (for example) then I'd be perfectly happy to keep the manager. Like I said before. I wanted Mourinho sacked while he was on pace to finish 2nd, because it was obvious where we were heading and that it was all shite anyway. With Ole right now, I dont see that gloom. I see a lot of positive things to look forward to in fact, we'll just see if our performances just iron out the few kinks that have been there (i.e., missing key penalties and the random dumb mistakes after we're in full control).
  8. Sep 10, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    Accept? You want to rate manager on weekly basis? Last season City won the league and the lost to Palace at home and dropped points against Wolves away. Not comparing us with City but these results means nothing. It's what he achieves at the end of the season or the progress by midseason counts.
  9. Sep 10, 2019

    romufc Full Member

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    What!! City lost to Palace at home?! Pep should have been sacked on the spot. Losing to a team like Palace at home?
  10. Sep 10, 2019

    lewwoo Full Member

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    He hasn't been backed properly and the board are trying to save money by not replacing adequately what has been lost. He has no chance.
  11. Sep 10, 2019

    Skills Snitch

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    That's because we're fecking idiots. This issue isn't exclusive to Ole.
  12. Sep 10, 2019

    romufc Full Member

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    We can't sack managers who have one bad run. It is a totally unsustainable way of operating.
  13. Sep 10, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    Yeah that's my argument. It has nothing to do with Ole.
  14. Sep 10, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    Has he ever had a good run as our permanent manager though? Did he ever had a good run as an EPL permanent manager at all? Lets face it, if the guy wasn't a United legend then he wouldn't have been considered for the job. His CV is shocking
  15. Sep 10, 2019

    romufc Full Member

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    So let us ignore the time he had as caretaker manager because at that time he didn't manage the team?

    I am not in favour of Ole being the long term manager but our failures are not down to Ole. Ole hasn't been in charge for 6 years where results have been the same.

    We would be in this position because there is something else wrong at this football club.

    Ole did not in his wildest dreams think he will be Manutd manager. The reason he was approached was because he is a legend, if not him Ed would have approached another legend.

    And believe me, none of them would have turned this job down. It is not Ole's fault that the CEO of the club is so incompetent.
  16. Sep 10, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    Caretaker doesn't count because it doesn't fit the agenda.
  17. Sep 10, 2019

    romufc Full Member

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    Such pathetic fans. If fans actually believe we are where we are because of Ole and a managerial change will sort it all out need to go watch Sevilla v United in the Champions League in the season where they all creaming about our 2nd place finish.

    Ole is not the answer but he is not the problem either.
  18. Sep 10, 2019

    Denis79 Full Member

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    There is no arguing that he got the job because of who he is instead of what he has achieved as a manager, whoever says otherwise is lying to himself. Let's say Pochettino was our manager, do you feel he's been backed properly considering our last season and our ambitions?
  19. Sep 10, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    Is it that tragic to ignore a couple of months when Ole had little power apart from that given on a week to week basis.

    I am not blaming everything on Ole. Actually Ole's appointment is yet another mistake done by our incompetent CEO. However let's not kid ourselves that this poor guy can manage a top club. He was out of depth at Cardiff FFS
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  20. Sep 10, 2019

    Lee565 Full Member

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    What excuses would there be if United under Ole finish below Leicester this season considering Ole actually started a few months before Rodgers took over Leicester and raided them of what i would presume was either their 1st or 2nd best player in Maguire considering the money we spent on him and would think that it would make their defence going into this season weaker and we also out spent them by a considerable amount.
  21. Sep 10, 2019

    TheRedDevil'sAdvocate Full Member

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    It's called embracing mediocrity. And i'm not saying it as an accusation, it's a defence mechanism. And i believe it has less to do with Ole and more with our fanbase watching our dreams & hopes being crushed for the last six seasons. Football isn't supposed to be a soul-destroying experience, it's supposed to be a part of the fun you can have in the weekend (if you don't have to work, of course). And i can tell you there's no fun in waiting in vain for a bunch of overpaid tossers to live up to the challenges this badge with the little devil on it presents. So, yeah, why all the anger and frustration? We don't deserve anything after a quarter of a century of unparalleled success and everyone who thinks otherwise is entitled. Why bother if Ole finishes in the second half of the table? Apparently, clearing the deadwood and exchanging three passes in the attacking half is good enough for the manager of Manchester United nowadays. He's the only manager in the history of football who inherited a mess, after all. Just have hope that the future will be better, it makes life easier.

    The standards dropped the day Moyes was announced as our manager. At the time, 9/10 United fans would tell you that CL qualification would suffice for his first season. True story, check the forum's history if you like. And back in the summer of 2013, United were the champions of England while City were good but they were not breaking records left, right and centre, Chelsea were going into the season with Ba as their main man and nobody could see Liverpool challenging under Rodgers. Then in comes LvG: "Just CL qualification and modern football tactics, Louis" said the fans. We qualified for the CL once but the good, modern football never came. Still, the Dutchman lasted two whole seasons at OT. Nowhere else in the world would a fanbase have been more patient with him. Mourinho was brought in with hopes of reviving his rivalry with Pep in England. Didn't happen and City look miles ahead of us at the moment. Yet, we had to endure a preseason and half a season of someone who was clearly waiting to receive his compensation money and nothing more. Sad times, indeed. Sad times which share one common denominator. The man who is always in a win-win situation: Ole is a success and he'll be the one who sacked a proven winner and gambled with the United legend when no one saw him as a candidate. Ole is a failure and he'll be the ruthless CEO who doesn't give a damn if you're a past legend. All he has to do is wait for things to reach the point of no return so that his decision will be perceived with relief and his shortcomings will once again be swept under the rug in the prospect of a new beginning.

    Leave Ole be, he may yet surprise us all. And as one of my friends said: "If we can't compete with City and Liverpool, i don't care whether we finish 3rd or 17th". It makes life easier...
  22. Sep 10, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    I see Ole as yet another mistake from our incompetent CEO. Ole is so green and so clueless that he doesn't even deserve to be considered as a problem. It would be like Apple replacing the late Steve jobs with the first staff member they meet at McDonalds. The problem won't be that guy but the board
  23. Sep 10, 2019

    lex talionis Full Member

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    I dispute the premise of OP that we're dropping standards to accommodate Ole.

    Long story, told gobs of times already here over last 6 years, is that we made a calamitous mistake in appointing Moyes and we got it wrong with both LVG and Jose. And here we are, working through a transition now that we should have worked through a long time ago.

    We all have our opinions about what Ole should have done once the brilliant start under him began to crumble into mediocrity, or arguably worse.

    But what Ole has not done is accepted mediocrity. We may need to sack him later this season, but for now we're taking a step back to prepare for two steps forward. We'll see if we really do take two steps forward this season, but for now there are signs of progress.

    Let's acknowledge what the club has done right recently:

    Held onto De Gea
    Held onto Pogba
    Bought Maguire
    Bought Wan-Bissaka
    Bought James
    Binned Fellaini
    Binned Lukaku
    Binned Sanchez (still paying most of his wages, however)
    Loaned out Smalling to, hopefully, improve his game in a league that knows a few things about defending

    All things considered, that's pretty decent stuff by Ole and management.

    Oh I so wish the club had brought in Bruno. The belief in Lingard as a regular starter is misplaced. Although I do like Lingard in spot situations, the gulf in class between Bruno and Lingard is massive and we've dropped points early in the season partly because of the lack of class at 10 in a 4231. Poor pk's have caused us a drop of four points as well.

    Patience is a dirty word on an internet forum but we really do have to be patient. If we continue to drop stupid points to clubs like Palace and Southampton will we have re-examine whether Ole is up to the job, but we should appreciate the poor state of the squad Jose left him with and Ole's efforts so far to clean up the mess.
  24. Sep 10, 2019

    Amerifan Full Member

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    As a matter of fact I do. Poch is a known quantity and think we would have opened the purse strings to get CL football. I think Ole will get that level of support once the board is convinced he’s our long term manager.
  25. Sep 10, 2019

    snowkarl New Member

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    Do you understand that this is only impressive because Arsenal and Spurs showed relegation form from february onwards?

    After the initial manager bounce he has been getting 17th place results for over 6 months now.

    Stop making excuses.
  26. Sep 10, 2019

    welshwingwizard Full Member

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    Not all way through but this is pretty much spot on with exception of I think he will fail improving style but happy to wait until end of year to see. The reason is he knows exactly what to say but i have yet to see it on the pitch. So he has talked youth since coming in but ultimately it has just been lip service. Expect same with style of football. Tell us it will be attacking and adventurous when it is really Jose repackaged.
  27. Sep 10, 2019

    abdo99 Full Member

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    :lol::lol:
  28. Sep 10, 2019

    Phil Osophy Full Member

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    In my case I would set the bar higher if after that amazing run we had kept that basis in similar conditions and built on it this summer, but we didn't.

    We had a solid midfield with Matic-Herrera-Pogba performing well, but Matic lost his legs somewhere and is yet to find them. Herrera started flirting with PSG and left because the club didn't match his demands, and I'm still waiting for his replacement. Pogba started praising Real, Zidane at the same time and wanted to leave this summer too, surely aiming now to leave the next one. Fred started this preseason late and he's taking pictures in Greece while we rely on McTominay every week, the only player who's fully focused in that midfield.

    In attack Lukaku was sold and we didn't sign any striker. Solskjaer said during the tour that every player sold would be replaced (the same thing he was told, more than probably) but nobody came in the end. Rashford spent the last months of last season playing like a child in the park, and Martial barely moved an eyebrow more or less since his contract extension. We needed a mature presence up front with quality and energy to lead the attack and not depend on these guys, but nothing happened despite selling a striker for 80 M. More steps back.

    De Gea was giving bad signs all the season and it got worse in the last months. His head wasn't there for some reason and we didn't solve the situation in any way, so it's still the same. It's amazing that even our best player for years seems to be a headache now. We've improved our defence with two good additions and the punt on James is looking fine, but in these conditions and with holes everywhere, fielding the youngest XI and our two main players distracted I wouldn't expect any miracles.

    The main difference I see this time is that under LVG and Mourinho the club spent heavily on transfers and salaries without worries, and now it seems that after the party they're starting to clean the house. They're readjusting the wages spend that reached astronomical levels and they are working with the calculator, and this is why we can't use the same measure stick we used for LVG and Jose with Solskjaer now, and that's why the club will be more lax this time when it comes to fixing the bare minimum.

    With the chance of PSG, Bayern, Real and Barcelona looking for a new manager soon I can't see any relevant coach coming to this circus now, just to manage a bunch of kids in the Europa League, with financial restrictions and without a proper structure at the club. So until we're in better state and we can present an ambitious plan to a top manager to push hard again, our coach will be Solskjaer, McKenna, or Nicky Butt if we reach a critical situation at some point and it forces a change, maybe Laurent Blanc but I wouldn't expect more.

    I believe the next managerial appointment will be decided by a DoF in the future, to be part of a long term strategy and not as some desperate measure. I think it's inevitable that they appoint a DoF after realizing how useless they are, but one year trying to find someone for that technical role should have been enough, and it's time to see something material.

    This is where I'd put the pressure and the emphasis now to force the hand of the club, instead of replacing one manager with another to face the same exact problems and be in the same place. With football people at the helm taking football decisions the rest would happen alone as it happens everywhere, but these guys from the board seem to enjoy making things difficult for themselves or something. Hard to understand.
  29. Sep 10, 2019

    passing-wind Full Member

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    It's crazy to suggest these results mean nothing. Results will determine utlimately if Solskjaer is employed or unemployed come the end of the season. Last year we saw this team lose morale and become mentally weak which concluded our season. We have started this season with exactly the same trajectory as last season. That is a major concern because we have won three games in 15. I don't care if Beckham, Ronaldo or Cantona was in charge. Ole's record is horrendous, as soon as the "time" argument passes if things don't change many will realise he's a below average manager.

    I truly do wish the best for Solskjaer but I think he only points us in the right direction, he doesn't however have anything in his arsenal to take us to the destination. Someone else will have to do that, who remains the mystery.
  30. Sep 10, 2019

    passing-wind Full Member

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    He needs two pre seasons, the squad isn't good enough, Ole needs three windows, but we have played attacking football, Woodward is responsible for everything that goes on the pitch, the glazers are to blame, we are in a transition period and losing regardless of opponent is acceptable.

    The reality is I've seen more positive imprints on the first team with Rodgers and Lampard than anything witnessed under Ole, despite them having significantly less time (mainly Frank). That winning run was an adjustment period for teams to see how we play, implement ideas and nullify our strengths. Since the winning run has ended Ole has been tactically outdone in 80% of our fixtures. Everton last season might have been the most embarrassing experience I've witnessed as fan of this club.
  31. Sep 10, 2019

    Amerifan Full Member

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    The goal of playing attacking football and blooding youth cannot come at the expense of losing games. Ole is doing what he can to win games first and foremost. Attacking just because it is exciting is foolish with a squad deficient in midfield and forwards. Being adventurous with rookies while the game is in jeopardy is historically a losing strategy.

    Given time I’m confident Ole will back his attacking and youth talk. But first he needs to find a winning formula with the best he has at his disposal.
  32. Sep 10, 2019

    ravi2 Full Member

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    This is the truth
  33. Sep 10, 2019

    90 + 5min New Member

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    Shall we expect (new manager) thread every day now?

    Why can't people understand that last year doesn't mean anything?! Why can't people see that we are going forward? Why can't people understand that this is not Football Manager 2020?

    Just for fun, RedCafes own Golden Manager hasn't won anything in football as a manager despite having better team than Solskjaer. Think about that. And still you want him to replace Solskjaer? I'm not saying that Pochettino is bad manager. Just giving fact.
  34. Sep 10, 2019

    Denis79 Full Member

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    When the board is convinced? Why hire him permanently if they're not? Billion pound company run by idiots if that's the case.
  35. Sep 10, 2019

    Greck Full Member

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    Time is on his side to show he's the right man. There's really no point sacking him anytime before the end of the season just to have an interim take us to the gloriously targeted 6th position finish. Even by rational standards he's working with a very generous assessment criteria. As the seasons plays out and the sample size increases his case to start next season as our manager will get more defendable or indefensible. We should be content to wait and see. We have no real trophy targets to rescue anyway
  36. Sep 10, 2019

    Majima Full Member

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    Nuno Santo & Marco Silva wiped the floor with him last season. Even the sacked Javi Gracia had his number at OT last season too. Now Roy Hodgson this season... the most damning thing is, regardless of the opponent, every manager seems to be outwitting him.

    I can accept him not being able to go toe to toe with Pep or Klopp, because he was originally supposed to be a caretaker manager before we hired a suitable manager but, we've likely hired someone as permanent manager who's not even on the level of the managers supposed to be below us. That becomes clearer with every passing week.

    That's my biggest problem with the club, we're gifting players & managers a spot before they have proved that they even deserve it. We're run like an absolute joke. What are we, a charity club? It's completely bonkers.
  37. Sep 10, 2019

    Amerifan Full Member

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    In what way is trying out a promising young manager, one who will leave the club in a better state than he found it if it doesn’t work out, an idiot move?
  38. Sep 10, 2019

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    I'd like to think theres a manager out there that could be successful with our budget.
  39. Sep 10, 2019

    Kemizee Full Member

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    Say what you want about it being some random shit but being English and having a 'saintly, angelic' character seems to be our mantra for recruitment since Ole took over. We are the only 'top' club still stuck in the past about how players and football clubs should behave and be run. We have cnuts for e.g playing for us like Jesse Lingard, Marcos Rojo etc but if you mentioned for instance that a world class player like Eden Hazard is available, or say Rabiot, you will have people questioning their attitude and how they would behave more than their actual footballing abilities and professionalism. Pogba is a major scapegoat among those with this mentality and guess what, we will continue to assemble an average team of 'British, hardworking, hungry, runs around, youthful', bleeds the club' players who win nothing while other top teams gather the best, talented players and keep on winning the majors.
  40. Sep 10, 2019

    Kemizee Full Member

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    First of all Ole said he was happy with the transfer window. At no time did he register any hint of displeasure by saying 'it was a good window. We could have done better or something like that...

    2ndly, whose fault is it that he sold the only reliable goalscorer of his to Inter and put his faith in two inconsistent youngsters whose bottom levels are worse than Troy Deeney's?