Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?

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It's either:

1) Because Ed Woodward our popular CEO knows how fickle fans can be, and if he were to sack Ole he'd go from Hero to Villain overnight.
2) Because the club feel he is the right man for the job.

IT'S FOUR FECKING GAMES, GET A GRIP
 

Eric's Seagull

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Standards have dropped and the worrying thing is that standards may drop further.
Fret not, if things do get worse, Ole will be fired and we'll hit the reset button once again and will be back to square one.
Meanwhile Woodward who is consistently failing, is getting a free pass.
It feels at times that I am the only one calling Woodward out for his failings? While he remains our DoF, we won't improve, regardless of which manager is in charge.
I agree with your post. I fear that Ole will get sacked if things don't go well and I put the blame for this on Woodward for not giving him a good enough platform to succeed from, I think Ed is going to try to make a scapegoat out of a club legend.

I really hope that Ole doesn't get sacked this season and that he gets backed properly next summer. Although I am doubtful that Ole will get backed fully, should he make it through until the end of the season.
 

Enigma_87

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Alot of those managers named have not achieved much in their career. Nuno is a defensive manager.
Hassenhuttl has improved which players?
Ten Hag got to Ajax where he had exciting prospects, lets judge him after this season?
Nagelsman again, lets judge him after this season.

These are all managers who have managed lesser teams and done well over last 1/2 years.

Rodgers was sacked by Liverpool for Klopp, and at Celtic he won the league which every manager does but not much noteworthy in the champions league?
Despite managing for shorter time period all those managers have shown more in terms of actual potential than Ole in 10 years career.

Nagelsman especially is very bright prospect and kicked off pretty well this season at RB.

Ten Hag has shown a pretty good football on the back of good results recently and I won't be against it to hire him either.

Hassenhuttl improved Werner, Keita. Brought in Konate and Upamecano - has a good eye for young prospects, although you can argue that Ragnick has as much part in the process as him.

Rodgers is a better manager, not really debatable although I wouldn't be a big fan of him here.

Apart from world class managers I'd say Ten Hag and Nagelsman are definitely ones we should be tracking/looking for and probably giving a chance.
 

romufc

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Despite managing for shorter time period all those managers have shown more in terms of actual potential than Ole in 10 years career.

Nagelsman especially is very bright prospect and kicked off pretty well this season at RB.

Ten Hag has shown a pretty good football on the back of good results recently and I won't be against it to hire him either.

Hassenhuttl improved Werner, Keita. Brought in Konate and Upamecano - has a good eye for young prospects, although you can argue that Ragnick has as much part in the process as him.

Rodgers is a better manager, not really debatable although I wouldn't be a big fan of him here.

Apart from world class managers I'd say Ten Hag and Nagelsman are definitely ones we should be tracking/looking for and probably giving a chance.
TBH, It doesnt matter what manager we get we have been failing in other aspects of the business.

Until we have this sorted we won't succeed.
 

Enigma_87

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TBH, It doesnt matter what manager we get we have been failing in other aspects of the business.

Until we have this sorted we won't succeed.
That's very negative way of thinking my friend :)

Liverpool weren't really setting the world alight before Klopp. Getting the right personnel and figure in terms of manager is massive for every club. Especially for a club that has depended hugely on one sports figure in the last 2-3 decades.

I do believe that getting a top manager/figure that would take us forward and financial backing to support his ideas is the way to go for us.
 

romufc

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That's very negative way of thinking my friend :)

Liverpool weren't really setting the world alight before Klopp. Getting the right personnel and figure in terms of manager is massive for every club. Especially for a club that has depended hugely on one sports figure in the last 2-3 decades.

I do believe that getting a top manager/figure that would take us forward and financial backing to support his ideas is the way to go for us.
You can forgive me for being negative after the dreadful years we have had.

To hire a top class manager, Ole needs to leave? I don't think we will sack him prior to Xmas unless we are bottom half.
 

Enigma_87

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You can forgive me for being negative after the dreadful years we have had.

To hire a top class manager, Ole needs to leave? I don't think we will sack him prior to Xmas unless we are bottom half.
The dreadful years I can compare with us trying to replace Schmeichel. At the end we got it right :)

If he continues with our current form he might not last October.

Being in the bottom half come Xmas is not entirely unrealistic scenario either.
 

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That's very negative way of thinking my friend :)

Liverpool weren't really setting the world alight before Klopp. Getting the right personnel and figure in terms of manager is massive for every club. Especially for a club that has depended hugely on one sports figure in the last 2-3 decades.

I do believe that getting a top manager/figure that would take us forward and financial backing to support his ideas is the way to go for us.
If we were to get another manager in I don't think that Woodward would back them fully in the market, which I think he hasn't done for Ole.
 

romufc

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The dreadful years I can compare with us trying to replace Schmeichel. At the end we got it right :)

If he continues with our current form he might not last October.

Being in the bottom half come Xmas is not entirely unrealistic scenario either.
Yep, which is worrying.

Tbh it would have been a nice fairytale if Ole managed to get us top 4
 

Sky1981

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If we were to get another manager in I don't think that Woodward would back them fully in the market, which I think he hasn't done for Ole.
150m for a manager who won 2 in his last 13 games is not being backed? What do you think is enough to call it as being backed? It's not like ole wasnt given any transfer funds.

He gets quite alot for an unproven manager
 

Amerifan

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There's a shed load of managers out there who have proven to improve players and style of play beyond the 3 you mentioned. Maybe they don't fit United's profile, and I can't guarantee they'll have us challenging but their body of work shows we'll be a better team tactically at least. Nuno, Hassenhuttl, Rose, Ten Hag, Brendan Rodgers, Nagelsman...definitely many more.
Let’s be honest here. None of these men are winning a title at United. Poch is the best of the rest. But we’re never going to outspend City and Pep is too good when backed. Klopp may be the best manager in the world right now. So even with Poch we peak at 3rd. With any of the others we’re looking 4th thru 6th, same as with Ole.
 

Enigma_87

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If we were to get another manager in I don't think that Woodward would back them fully in the market, which I think he hasn't done for Ole.
I tend to think he would. Ole got backed, we still spent 150m, despite him not being really a good manager with credentials. LvG and Jose were backed before him, you can make a case for Moyes, but he inherited a title winning squad and also chased impossible targets for large amount of the time.

Yep, which is worrying.

Tbh it would have been a nice fairytale if Ole managed to get us top 4
Nothing against that. If he manages to turn it around and show that on the pitch on weekly basis I'd give him more than one season, alas if we're being realistic that's very unlikely scenario, hence my position on him.

My worry is if we don't act accordingly and in time those talented managers might have different teams next Summer and if he fails we will be again with limited options and again with the wrong man at helm.
 

romufc

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I tend to think he would. Ole got backed, we still spent 150m, despite him not being really a good manager with credentials. LvG and Jose were backed before him, you can make a case for Moyes, but he inherited a title winning squad and also chased impossible targets for large amount of the time.


Nothing against that. If he manages to turn it around and show that on the pitch on weekly basis I'd give him more than one season, alas if we're being realistic that's very unlikely scenario, hence my position on him.

My worry is if we don't act accordingly and in time those talented managers might have different teams next Summer and if he fails we will be again with limited options and again with the wrong man at helm.

Tbh if Poch left spurs anytime during the season, you would probably have to get rid of Ole and get in ?

That goes with any manager who has the credentials of turning us around.
 

Leftback99

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I don't know why Poch is seen as such a sure thing. It will be a long time until we have a squad even as good as Spurs have now, and he's getting nowhere near the title with them.
 

Enigma_87

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Tbh if Poch left spurs anytime during the season, you would probably have to get rid of Ole and get in ?

That goes with any manager who has the credentials of turning us around.
Depends. Generally I'd get rid of Ole to have someone interim who can improve on what we've got this season and try to get the best out of the players - coach them, improve them if possible, get better results on the pitch.

In the meantime we have to talk with all possible candidates, approach them and unveil it at the end of the season - pretty much like other clubs.

Poch in question might come if things go sour for him midseason as he has spent a lot of years at Spurs, but someone like Nagelsman for example I can't see leaving midseason RB, considering he just started there and had 4 games under his belt - of course it's not like he will be a sure bet in terms of success but has the talent no doubt.

In regards to Ole, as said, my biggest worry is that based on what we've got and his past record things are more likely to go worse than better and hence I'd remove him from his position sooner than later - before this season is in the bin.

If we're midtable come Xmas, probably makes no difference whether he will see it out or be sacked.
 

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We’re not. We’re dropping them for, and because of the owners. A fecking disease on the club.
 

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I tend to think he would. Ole got backed, we still spent 150m, despite him not being really a good manager with credentials. LvG and Jose were backed before him, you can make a case for Moyes, but he inherited a title winning squad and also chased impossible targets for large amount of the time.
I hope you are right with the part in bold. I think that Ole should have been backed more by Woodward in the summer.
 

romufc

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Depends. Generally I'd get rid of Ole to have someone interim who can improve on what we've got this season and try to get the best out of the players - coach them, improve them if possible, get better results on the pitch.

In the meantime we have to talk with all possible candidates, approach them and unveil it at the end of the season - pretty much like other clubs.

Poch in question might come if things go sour for him midseason as he has spent a lot of years at Spurs, but someone like Nagelsman for example I can't see leaving midseason RB, considering he just started there and had 4 games under his belt - of course it's not like he will be a sure bet in terms of success but has the talent no doubt.

In regards to Ole, as said, my biggest worry is that based on what we've got and his past record things are more likely to go worse than better and hence I'd remove him from his position sooner than later - before this season is in the bin.

If we're midtable come Xmas, probably makes no difference whether he will see it out or be sacked.
I disagree, we cannot go down another interim manager after what happened. A purple patch and they will be given a permanent contract. I don't see things that bad where we are in desperate need to get rid of a manager.

I would like to think he can turn this around and re visit his position come January.
 

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What??? How does Watford sacking their manager after a poor run mean that WE have dropped our standards??? I’m confused...
 

Enigma_87

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I disagree, we cannot go down another interim manager after what happened. A purple patch and they will be given a permanent contract. I don't see things that bad where we are in desperate need to get rid of a manager.

I would like to think he can turn this around and re visit his position come January.
Well one would say that we have learned our lesson by now..
 

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Swings and roundabouts folks, what goes up must come down. I don't know exactly how or when, but Utd will be back at the top. Nobody can stay on top constantly, and we all know just how quickly things can go from good to bad, and the likes of Liverpool, City and Spurs etc won't even see the shift coming until it's already happened.

What Ole needs right now is something that you don't hear much of in modern day football, and that is time.
 

90 + 5min

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Struggling to see how we're going forward.
Are you watching our games? Not just looking at results (even though the results are important).

Every game (except Chelsea) has been dominated by us. Every. The problem is taking care of our chances during games. You can only lead a cow to the water. You can't make cow drink. Maybe you can learn it but it takes time and problem with time is our fanbase. I should say, some of the fanbase. Those who demand results without looking at the bigger picture.
 
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Foxbatt

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What do you mean by domination? The end result is to score more goals than the opponents. The other teams let us have possession as a tactic so as to deny the space behind their defence being used by our quick strikers. The other teams have more at least equal open chances as us. Possession is not the key and neither is domination. Many teams have more possession and yet lose the game.
 

sunama

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What??? How does Watford sacking their manager after a poor run mean that WE have dropped our standards??? I’m confused...
At the time of SAF, we'd compare ourselves to Barca, Madrid, Bayern, Juve, etc.
Now, we are comparing ourselves to Watford.
I'd say that is the very definition of dropping standards.

Post SAF, as well, when LVG was in 6th place (after the disastrous December), many demanded that he be sacked. We would later recover to 5th.
When Jose was in 6th place last season, many wanted him sacked.
This year however, we are in 8th (which was predictable, given that we had relegation form towards the end of last season) and people are accepting of 8th place.

The truth is that because Ole is a club legend, he is getting an easy ride.
 

ash_86

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What do you mean by domination? The end result is to score more goals than the opponents. The other teams let us have possession as a tactic so as to deny the space behind their defence being used by our quick strikers. The other teams have more at least equal open chances as us. Possession is not the key and neither is domination. Many teams have more possession and yet lose the game.
The bolded part is not true. Our defense has been excellent in preventing chances from open play. We have lost point only due to individual errors.
 

AshRK

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Standards have dropped and the worrying thing is that standards may drop further.
Fret not, if things do get worse, Ole will be fired and we'll hit the reset button once again and will be back to square one.
Meanwhile Woodward who is consistently failing, is getting a free pass.
It feels at times that I am the only one calling Woodward out for his failings? While he remains our DoF, we won't improve, regardless of which manager is in charge.
Absolutely this. The sooner we all realize that unless we turn out lucky we will go nowhere with Woodward in charge. At this point I don't even care who our manager is, this idiot must be removed
 

AshRK

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I LvG first season I think we offloaded/released 18 players of something like that. We continued to do the same in his second season and also in the first season Jose stepped in we also offloaded quite a bit.

Wouldn't say offloading players is something special - not replacing them is worse.

The reason why we keep buying/offloading players is because we have appointed different managers with different styles.
And what makes you think this board will get things right after sacking Ole. Some here think sacking Ole will miraculously make us better. It won't till we have an incompetent board running the show.
 

90 + 5min

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What do you mean by domination? The end result is to score more goals than the opponents. The other teams let us have possession as a tactic so as to deny the space behind their defence being used by our quick strikers. The other teams have more at least equal open chances as us. Possession is not the key and neither is domination. Many teams have more possession and yet lose the game.
Absolutly. Football is about winning. I don't disagree with that. But if you can't see difference between this year and last year there is nothing I can do about it. What I can do is give you stats that we have been better then other teams. You can always say that it is beacuse of other teams tactics but you don't know if that is true. Or do you have som inside information of opposition gameplan?

Against Chelsea
Won 4-0. I don't think we were better and road our luck. Equal sides and game looking at stats. And that's something I said.

Against Wolverhampton
1-1. 65% ball. More chances, more shots, more of everything. Missed penalty. Dominated first half. Bad 20 min in second half then went back do dominate. Should have won.

Against Crystal Palace
Lost 1-2. 71% ball. More chances, more shots, more of everything. Missed penalty. Not given any kind of chance from referee. Not that good in first half even if we had lot of ball. Second half we were all over them. Lost due attacking minded players and misstakes. Instead of taking it easy we were going all in for win. Deserved to win but lost.

Against Southampton
1-1. 58% ball. More chances, more shots, more of everything. Played with one more player last 20 but couldn't score that goal. First half we were very good. No chance for Southampton. They get one chance, one misstake, score one goal. We were not Clinical enough in front of the goal.


We are better then last year looking at our games. Not results, but in games. With one Nistelrooy, Cole, Hughes upfront we would have 12 points.
 

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The board isn't going anywhere, people need to accept that and move the feck on. They are untouchable. They are fecking clueless, yes, but great managers can overcompensate for a lot of negatives. We need to focus on what can actually change, rather than pointlessly hoping the Glazers and Woodward will feck off.

For example, the board have been quite lax on their management of the squad and tactics. They've mostly left it down to the managers. It's their fault for hiring the wrong managers, but not their fault the managers pursued the wrong players or didn't know how to fully utilise the players they wanted.

If we were to had given Pep or Klopp that kind of money, I think we would have been much better off. Heck, even Simeone would have built a much stronger squad than the one we have with backing.
 

fergiesarmy1

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The board isn't going anywhere, people need to accept that and move the feck on. They are untouchable. They are fecking clueless, yes, but great managers can overcompensate for a lot of negatives. We need to focus on what can actually change, rather than pointlessly hoping the Glazers and Woodward will feck off.

For example, the board have been quite lax on their management of the squad and tactics. They've mostly left it down to the managers. It's their fault for hiring the wrong managers, but not their fault the managers pursued the wrong players or didn't know how to fully utilise the players they wanted.

If we were to had given Pep or Klopp that kind of money, I think we would have been much better off. Heck, even Simeone would have built a much stronger squad than the one we have with backing.
Woodward’s position has to come under threat soon surely, he’s the one making the major decisions and they all seem to turn out wrong. Eventually you got to look past the team manager if he’s got a squad not fit for purpose. I’m sure a top manager would have quit on the spot if he ended up with 2 and a half strikers for a full season but Ole hasn’t got the clout to do that unfortunately.
 

JustAGuest

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At the time of SAF, we'd compare ourselves to Barca, Madrid, Bayern, Juve, etc.
Now, we are comparing ourselves to Watford.
I'd say that is the very definition of dropping standards.

Post SAF, as well, when LVG was in 6th place (after the disastrous December), many demanded that he be sacked. We would later recover to 5th.
When Jose was in 6th place last season, many wanted him sacked.
This year however, we are in 8th (which was predictable, given that we had relegation form towards the end of last season) and people are accepting of 8th place.

The truth is that because Ole is a club legend, he is getting an easy ride.
It has been 4 matches. It is way too early to put weight into our league position. If we are still in 8th place by Christmas it will be very different.
 

roonster09

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What do you mean by domination? The end result is to score more goals than the opponents. The other teams let us have possession as a tactic so as to deny the space behind their defence being used by our quick strikers. The other teams have more at least equal open chances as us. Possession is not the key and neither is domination. Many teams have more possession and yet lose the game.
End result only matters when we don't score more goals than opponents? I didn't see you talking about end result but how we got dominated by Chelsea (which wasn't even true) but when we dominate games but didn't take chances, it doesn't matter. Only end result matters.

What positive signs? If we talk about the missed penalties and the non save by DeGea then we should also talk about how we got dominated by Chelsea in the first half and how they hit the woodwork twice and how Degea pulled of two tremendous saves. We were lucky to go in at half time without conceding a goal against Chelsea.

Anyways, end result matters and how you achieve that matters too and the latter part is as important.
 

devilish

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The board isn't going anywhere, people need to accept that and move the feck on. They are untouchable. They are fecking clueless, yes, but great managers can overcompensate for a lot of negatives. We need to focus on what can actually change, rather than pointlessly hoping the Glazers and Woodward will feck off.

For example, the board have been quite lax on their management of the squad and tactics. They've mostly left it down to the managers. It's their fault for hiring the wrong managers, but not their fault the managers pursued the wrong players or didn't know how to fully utilise the players they wanted.

If we were to had given Pep or Klopp that kind of money, I think we would have been much better off. Heck, even Simeone would have built a much stronger squad than the one we have with backing.

When Sir Alex took over, we were a typical 80s football club that had a structure which was common for a football club of the day. The manager was at the top of the pyramid in terms of football. He was responsible for everything football related from tactics, the youth academy, right to identifying players we should sign and he was also expected to use his influence to persuade those players to join us. As time went by football had transformed from a sport to a money machine of epic proportion. The typical manager role became far too big to handle and new roles was created such as DOF, technical director etc, ie people who could focus on one aspect of the game (ex transfers) 24/7. In fact, even Sir Alex, who was there from the beginning was starting to struggle in terms of transfers with us losing out on players like Hazard and Moura.

Things degenerated once Sir Alex retired. Unlike Sir Alex who remembered a time when the manager did everything by himself and could make due with the system we currently have, the new generation of managers have been reliant on the board taking sound football decisions for most of their lives. Concepts like identifying new players, dealing with agents, persuading them to join etc were new to them. Also such lack of knowledge lead to them suggesting players from a very small pool of players they would know about. Since Sir Alex retired we've seen a tendency were managers brought players from leagues they still had some influence in or players they had previously worked with. Moyes (Mata and Fellaini), LVG (Blind, Depay, Bastian, Valdes etc), Mou (Matic, Pogba, our interest in Perisic and Willian etc) and Ole (players from the EPL). It also impacted our ability in terms of dealing with a high staff turnover. That lead to us handling contracts to deadwood simply because we simply couldn't handle the work generated by us sign 5-6 new players per summer. FFS Ole's rebuilt this summer ended with us signing just 3 players, 1 of which from a selling club in the Championship.

In terms of individual people, our board is good in what they are specialised in ie making money. You can't really label an accountant as incompetent because he failed to impress Gordon Ramsey at Master chef can you? What we need to do is to restructure the board so roles are given to people with the right skills/experience. We have financial people tasked in taking football decisions with the manager being given far more tasks then he can chew. Its like asking a surgeon to also cover the Anaesthetist's job with some help from the hospital's CEO. That doesn't really cut it.

In my opinion, United had grown far too big to operate as 1 entity. We need to divide the football side from the financial side with both roles working independent with some high level supervision from a chairman (the owner). Id say that Woodward should remain CEO on the financial side of things. Meanwhile a football CEO should be hired (Marotta? VDS?), alongside a DOF (Campos? Ragnick?) and possibly a head of recruitment (Mitchell?). Once these are settled we can have a look at the manager.
 
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patty123

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150m for a manager who won 2 in his last 13 games is not being backed? What do you think is enough to call it as being backed? It's not like ole wasnt given any transfer funds.

He gets quite alot for an unproven manager
So its Ole fault Ed paid 50 million for a player with one season under his belt, its his fault we paid 15 million for a player who agreed to join Leeds last Jan for 7 million, and its his fault we well over paid for Arry. As for you're question, well when he finally get the mess sorted left by Jose as in no MF, wont say lvg as most if not all his rubbish is gone.

This club is been ran into the ground by a board of buffoons and 2 so called world class managers who left the club in a worse state than Moyes and yet people still expect instant results that are not possible till this squad is fully rebuild.

Jesus people Rome wasn't build in a day and lest we who were of age to see it, neither was the legend that is AF teams, as people like to say he be gone after 90 fa cup if not won, he would have be long gone by then given the unrealistic demands of the modern fan.
 

TRUERED89

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So its Ole fault Ed paid 50 million for a player with one season under his belt, its his fault we paid 15 million for a player who agreed to join Leeds last Jan for 7 million, and its his fault we well over paid for Arry. As for you're question, well when he finally get the mess sorted left by Jose as in no MF, wont say lvg as most if not all his rubbish is gone.

This club is been ran into the ground by a board of buffoons and 2 so called world class managers who left the club in a worse state than Moyes and yet people still expect instant results that are not possible till this squad is fully rebuild.

Jesus people Rome wasn't build in a day and lest we who were of age to see it, neither was the legend that is AF teams, as people like to say he be gone after 90 fa cup if not won, he would have be long gone by then given the unrealistic demands of the modern fan.
You are right, but how long is this going to carry on we're approaching a decade of being sh!t. I hope Ole is the man to turn us around.
 

Enigma_87

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So its Ole fault Ed paid 50 million for a player with one season under his belt, its his fault we paid 15 million for a player who agreed to join Leeds last Jan for 7 million, and its his fault we well over paid for Arry. As for you're question, well when he finally get the mess sorted left by Jose as in no MF, wont say lvg as most if not all his rubbish is gone.

This club is been ran into the ground by a board of buffoons and 2 so called world class managers who left the club in a worse state than Moyes and yet people still expect instant results that are not possible till this squad is fully rebuild.

Jesus people Rome wasn't build in a day and lest we who were of age to see it, neither was the legend that is AF teams, as people like to say he be gone after 90 fa cup if not won, he would have be long gone by then given the unrealistic demands of the modern fan.
Then it's not Jose's fault for spending 300-400m as well it's not LvG's fault for spending 200-300 isn't it?

Fact is we spent more than anyone this window yet you are moaning that the manager wasn't backed?
 

Eli Zee

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Feb 20, 2017
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150m for a manager who won 2 in his last 13 games is not being backed? What do you think is enough to call it as being backed? It's not like ole wasnt given any transfer funds.

He gets quite alot for an unproven manager
When your squad is paper thin, it’s not backed. We need more players, more good ones
 

Enigma_87

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Aug 7, 2008
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When your squad is paper thin, it’s not backed. We need more players, more good ones
Everyone needs more good players. When you sell more players than you buy gets you to the point that the squad becomes paper thin.

What did you expect? To give him 300m pounds for this Summer alone?
 

fergiesarmy1

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Jan 18, 2013
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Then it's not Jose's fault for spending 300-400m as well it's not LvG's fault for spending 200-300 isn't it?

Fact is we spent more than anyone this window yet you are moaning that the manager wasn't backed?
Bringing 3 players in when we needed twice that many at least is not being wholeheartedly backed, our front line is a disgrace for a club this size. Can’t wait for tomorrow’s press conference where he confirms more injuries probably.