Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?

Leftback99

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My guess is the new Watford manager won't do much better.
 

redcafe_reader

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Well...sack him now mean nothing seriously. There will still be no DOF, there is no reason to believe Ed and co can choose the next Klopp.

I would rather trust Ole. Afterall he did love United and in my opinion, he's a smart guy. His signing has been good so far and he did clear out some deadwood. The only problem I have with him is his clear favouritism toward Rashford and Lingard but I still hope he will prove me wrong.
 

devilish

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Well...sack him now mean nothing seriously. There will still be no DOF, there is no reason to believe Ed and co can choose the next Klopp.

I would rather trust Ole. Afterall he did love United and in my opinion, he's a smart guy. His signing has been good so far and he did clear out some deadwood. The only problem I have with him is his clear favouritism toward Rashford and Lingard but I still hope he will prove me wrong.
I don't trust Ole but we're stuck with him till the end of the season. Anything else will lead to yet another knee jerk action with the new manager being blamed of all the ills caused by Ole's inexperience and the board's incompetence.

Ole and the board made their bed with this unbalanced side filled with hungry players from the local pond. They need to lay into it.
 

AJ10

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United needs to stop living in fantasty land and get back to reality. this is not a fairytale, it's business. Watford is acting more like a big club. No other club in the world would let a rookie manager stink up the place like United have done with Ole.
Care to tell us who they appointed as the new manager?

Like a Stupid club is more appropriate.
 

Leftback99

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Lets wait and see...

Watford have, in recent years, established themselves a PL club by being utterly ruthless with their managers.

They regularly do this, and they most often do well from it.
Last 4 seasons:
15/16 45 points (Sanchez Flores)
16/17 40 points (Mazzarri)
17/18 41 points (Silva/Gracia)
18/19 50 points (Gracia)

An average of 44 points. Lets see if they beat it by much if at all.
 

Jeppers7

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Because he's cleared out deadwood and started his rebuild from the back and his three signings look really good. If his next three signings are as good as his first three then we might get somewhere, however this season the squad is threadbare for quality and numbers....so this season will be difficult for anyone.
 

Bubz27

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I don't think there's a single person who could genuinely argue that Pochettino hasn't done a great job over the last 5 years at Spurs. He's loved universally by all Spurs fan which is very telling.
 

Greck

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I don't trust Ole but we're stuck with him till the end of the season. Anything else will lead to yet another knee jerk action with the new manager being blamed of all the ills caused by Ole's inexperience and the board's incompetence.

Ole and the board made their bed with this unbalanced side filled with hungry players from the local pond. They need to lay into it.
Yes many don't want Ole sacked right now but rather that he be assessed without favouritism like any Man United manager should.
 

devilish

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Yes many don't want Ole sacked right now but rather that he be assessed without favouritism like any Man United manager should.
that was always my biggest fear regarding us bringing in a 'homegrown' manager. Strictly speaking there's nothing wrong with that. Other clubs had done it with mixed success (Juve had Conte but also Ferrara. AC Milan had Capello but also Gattuso etc). However United are different. We're the most sentimental big club there is. If we can't find in our hearts to kick Jones out of the club after years producing only facial expressions then how on earth are we going to fire Ole?
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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What's the last 16 games like for Pochettino? Guess Spurs should sack him too right?
False equivalency. Pochettino turned Spurs into top 4 regulars and CL finalists on £5m net spend in 5 years. Ole had a decent 3 month run for us, and has been dismal ever since.

Think before you type for god sake.

It's undeniable we have lowered our standards, both our management and our fans. Would Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Juventus etc accept this? No, they would not. Those were the clubs we were once equal to, so clearly we have lowered our standards. We're basically Arsenal now, 4th would be a celebration. Pathetic FC.

And for the record, Arsenal lowered their standards in 2006 when they moved into the Emirates, they have never got back to where they were. We need to wake the feck up or we could be looking at a decade of irrelevance.
 

Rhyme Animal

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Last 4 seasons:
15/16 45 points (Sanchez Flores)
16/17 40 points (Mazzarri)
17/18 41 points (Silva/Gracia)
18/19 50 points (Gracia)

An average of 44 points. Lets see if they beat it by much if at all.
For club's like Watford, it's about remaining in the PL, and they have.

They've also played some decent footy through their current PL era, at times.
 

pacifictheme

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The only (slight) exaggeration was the 03/04 comment, the rest is exactly what I think, and frankly I don't think anyone reasonable could disagree with it.

Fans who want Ole sacked 4 games into the season after 6 months in charge with the squad and club in the state are, in my opinion, acting like spoiled children.
Yeah that was what i was referencing. Whilst i agree 4 games is too small a sample and the league has been weirdly even this season bar city and liverpool, this run has been going since march. So although we shouldn't sack him now, if we are bottom half at christmas (which is where we would be if our last 16 games match the next 16), what then?
 

Kemizee

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I've said many times, Ed Woodward should be in possession of a fecking medal for the job he's done in forcing the fans to accept mediocrity. He's managed to slowly but steadily erode any form of expectation or protest among our fanbase, and he's done such a good job of it that the majority of fans are expecting us to struggle to finish SIXTH for the 2019/20. Sixth.

It's an incredible job to be honest. I have to take my hat off to him, the bloke is an absolute genius when it comes to his job.
Thanks for this post. Our fanbase have finally bought into Ed's vision. A club of our stature starting a season with no expectations whatsoever. It is ridiculous beyond description.
 

No Idea For Nickname

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Ffs, these threads, fecking unbeliavable, every other thread, nothing better to do? No patience, no support, just constant bitching and moaning, like kids in toy shop not capable to decide which toy they want.

You people need a hug and a life, and I need to log off from Caf, to save myself from gettin unnecessery annoyed by football Einsteins.
 

ash_86

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Yes many don't want Ole sacked right now but rather that he be assessed without favouritism like any Man United manager should.
That's fair ask. You can definitely criticize the manager but looking around it feels like people have already started digging the grave after 4 games which is way way overboard.
 

Phil

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Because this is our new reality and we've made up reasons to comfort us and be more optimistic.
 

elnorte

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What's the last 16 games like for Pochettino? Guess Spurs should sack him too right?
Only took the one reply for this tired facile comparison to be rolled out for the umpteenth time. Well done.
 

charlenefan

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United needs to stop living in fantasty land and get back to reality. this is not a fairytale, it's business. Watford is acting more like a big club. No other club in the world would let a rookie manager stink up the place like United have done with Ole.
I presume you wanted Mourinho sacked? Now you want Ole sacked? How long exactly are you willing to give managers before you sack them?
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Because this is our new reality and we've made up reasons to comfort us and be more optimistic.

This is basically it in a nutshell. Once Ole goes, there'll be a new reason conjured up to convince them that the house isn't burning down.
 

NWRed

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Yeah that was what i was referencing. Whilst i agree 4 games is too small a sample and the league has been weirdly even this season bar city and liverpool, this run has been going since march. So although we shouldn't sack him now, if we are bottom half at christmas (which is where we would be if our last 16 games match the next 16), what then?
What then? We give him the time and patience he needs to sort out the squad and club. Football doesn't end next May.
 

tenpoless

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What was the standard again? when He first came in? Oh right, just finish the season as a caretaker manager.

People only hoped for him to turn the team into a more attacking one. That's all, no expectation for top 4 finish, CL and all that stupid stuffs. Only when He started getting result after result did people fly over the moon and thought He was the new Sir Alex.

We didn't drop anything as there was no standards for him in the first place. Why the short term memory?

Imagine having 6 months to think about who the next manager of fecking ManUnited should be, with one attainable PL experienced manager but We went with Ole even before He started losing (I thought it's one of the most important factors? to see how well a manager copes with a losing streak?) and disregarded his past experience in England.

The idiot picked him, now enjoy it.
 
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Kush

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Because 'running'

Because 'tradition'

Because '1999 treble winning goal'

Because 'rebuild'

Because 'we've tried big name managers... so now we must do this'

Because 'fixing culture at the club - like Fergie did'

Because 'Pogba is on Instagram'

Because 'FIFA playing fans don't understand what Ole is doing'

Btw @MyOnlySolskjaer - you should change title to 'Lower than Watford'.
You missed 'last season doesn't count, we need a pre-season' to 'he needs at least 2-3 years' :lol:

Also the 'board weakened the squad severely last summer, too many useful players sold without a proper replacement'. So, that's a readymade excuse for Ole if this season is a disaster.

I don't trust Ole but we're stuck with him till the end of the season. Anything else will lead to yet another knee jerk action with the new manager being blamed of all the ills caused by Ole's inexperience and the board's incompetence.

Ole and the board made their bed with this unbalanced side filled with hungry players from the local pond. They need to lay into it.
Pretty much were I am at, it makes zero sense to get rid of Ole right now. Let him ride this season out.

I do have massive doubts about us identifying his replacement in the background though.
 
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charlenefan

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Depends on the manager, a historically bad run of results should lead to a swift sacking. Ole should have been gone in May already.
So if Ole should have gone in May you're basically saying as soon as a manger has a bad run they should get the sack?

For anyone wondering Ole's run towards the end of the season was

W 2
D 2
L 4

So that's the type of run that should guarantee the sack?

Ok
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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Our standards have dropped in the summer of 2009 and they went lower and lower with each passing year.
No top club should be sacrificing everything for another annual rebuild, its like Arsenal of the early 10’s and if even they’ve had standards.
 

Stig

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There have been quite a few studies and articles about how much of an impact the manager actually has. This is probably one of the better ones that I have seen. Basically it says

The best predictor of a club’s success is not who picks the team but the squad’s total wage bill. High wages attract good players. The higher the wage bill, the better the team typically performs. Averaged over 10 seasons, correlation between wage bill and final league position is about 90 per cent, says Stefan Szymanski, an economist at the University of Michigan (with whom I wrote the book Soccernomics).
It goes on to note the diminishing role of the Manager, who is now basically the Head Coach, and is surrounded by data analysts, physicians, physiologists and who knows what. It points out that Leicester bucked the wage bill theory but that their data analysts identified N'Golo Kanté and Riyad Mahrez so were probably more influential that Claudio Ranieri in Leicester winning the league. The reason other clubs have taken them and not Ranieri.

if Leicester won thanks to the genius of their manager, Claudio Ranieri, it is odd that his genius did not manifest itself in his previous 30 years in coaching.
The article goes on to say that the money predicts 92% of a club's success, then we have all the specialist departments that contribute - but you still can't disregard the effects of Sir Alex, Brian Clough etc -- even if they did that when they were Managers and not Head Coaches.

Your gut instinct tells you that a Manager has to have some effect - it just isn't as great as it used to be or as great as they get given credit for or criticized for.


https://www.ft.com/content/0f79860e-605e-11e6-ae3f-77baadeb1c93

 

Amadaeus

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False equivalency. Pochettino turned Spurs into top 4 regulars and CL finalists on £5m net spend in 5 years. Ole had a decent 3 month run for us, and has been dismal ever since.

Think before you type for god sake.

It's undeniable we have lowered our standards, both our management and our fans. Would Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Juventus etc accept this? No, they would not. Those were the clubs we were once equal to, so clearly we have lowered our standards. We're basically Arsenal now, 4th would be a celebration. Pathetic FC.

And for the record, Arsenal lowered their standards in 2006 when they moved into the Emirates, they have never got back to where they were. We need to wake the feck up or we could be looking at a decade of irrelevance.
Well said. It is fan like those that are the reason our standards has become so low. Using those kind of false equivalency to try and justify our poor form. It is not just that our record is poor, but anyone that watches us play knows that our football is appalling. Ole would never do what Pochettino has done and he would have us battling relegation if he had the resources Pochettino had at Spurs.

If Pochettino could afford the most expensive attacker, midfielder and defender in premier league history like what we have/had at United, along with multiple premium addition, he would be vying for the treble. Yet, we are struggling for Fourth. We also have an amazing youth academy system which poch could only dream about at Spurs.

Our standard has dropped badly and it is an embarrassment. I feel like since Ole is a legend, he gets some leeway. However, things needs to improve because we are a much better team than Ole is showing the fans.
 

fastwalker

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I totally agree with you. We are so desperate for Ole to succeed that we are suspending common-sense, we are making every possible excuse for his management. To be honest I have read the most bafflingly nonsensical comments on the café after the draw at Wolves, defeat at Palace and the draw at Southampton. They have basically suggested that those results were due to the lack of investment during the summer window, as if to say that we need £180m worth of investment to beat Wolves, Palace and Southampton. Utter bonkers, yet that is exactly what now masquerades as rationale debate and logic amongst former United players and many United fans including those who run major fan platforms.

According to many United fans, despite the fact that Ole is the coach, in-game tactician, strategist, first team selector, squad rotator, motivator and mentor it is 'not his fault' that United cannot beat Palace at home or 10 man Southampton away, it's the board's fault, it is Moyes fault, it is Van Gaal's fault it is Jose's fault. In fact it is everyone's fault but Ole's.

In a nutshell, yes we have absolutely lowered the bar for Ole and we will lower it some more in order to compensate for his lack of elite level experience and ability to perform at the level required. Let's be clear, I am not one of those who think we need to get rid of him, but let's at least have the courage to hold him accountable.
 

VP89

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I'm assuming context comes into play. One is a new manager therefore afforded time to try and do his own things while other one had that run while already being well established and accustomed.

It's not black and white
True. But one manages a club that should be more than capable of getting more than 3 wins out of 16, whilst the other may face tougher teams relative to what he has, and have a tricky job with >5 wins in 16.

Not that I'm an advocate of sacking Ole of course. I just want to know why we've chosen him in particular for this rebuild.
 

Starkie_1

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Ffs, these threads, fecking unbeliavable, every other thread, nothing better to do? No patience, no support, just constant bitching and moaning, like kids in toy shop not capable to decide which toy they want.

You people need a hug and a life, and I need to log off from Caf, to save myself from gettin unnecessery annoyed by football Einsteins.
With you here pal. Have to wonder what kind of lives people on here lead, what they actually do to consider themselves supporters and whether or not they have a clue how football, let alone sport works.
 

passing-wind

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No the concensus from this thread is correct, Solskjaer is avoiding much criticism because he's a media darling and a legend at the club. Compare Mourinho's first two years before he regressed and compare it to Solskjaer's start. I remember people rejoicing at the window when we signed Pogba, Zlatan, Bailly and Henrik. We are now seeing the same the same with James, Maguire and AWB. The key is not who we buy but how Ole is able to replicate success on the pitch. This is where the problem lies, Jose still won more here than any other manager bar Guardiola he backed the club's investment to a degree.