Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?

ValenciaRocks

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Settle down children...

Sack ole and then what?

Ole has a vision, a long term vision and we are witnessing the dour period of a transition which will obviously take some time to flourish.

We were so close to having 9 points out of 3 games. It’s the small details that are derailing us at the moment... under mourinho and LVG it was systematic chaos. Give the bloke some time. If we finish in the bottom half of the table then of course we should be considering his position.

Until then, have some fecking patience... we can’t expect things to be great over night.

We will be buggered if we start going through the same viscous cycle again. Sign a prestigious manger and look for the quick fix, it just simply doesn’t work...

So yeah lower your expectations, we won’t be challenging this season and if you think we should your not thinking clearly or deluded at best.
 

Jam

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What's the last 16 games like for Pochettino? Guess Spurs should sack him too right?
Very different situations.

One has been at the entirely disappointing and failing Spurs for years and got them continuous top 4 finishes, nearly a title as well as a Champions League final. With Spurs. Spurs.

The other has been here less than a year and aside from one good run that can partly be attributed to a dark cloud being lifted and a honeymoon period.

Not that I think we should sack Ole over these 15 games. I’m more than happy to give him more opportunity but we do need to see a steady improvement soon over this current form.
 

Sylar

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Watford are bottom, we arent.
Watford might be able to get a manager who will give them a boost. If we get rid of Ole then what? Who is realistically gonna come in and continue (and not want his own players)
Oles three signings have been our best players

We need to think long term after a few short term managers with scatter gun approach spending

We've finished in the top twice since Fergie left. We are now a top 6 team who need to be smart with signings and building and that won't be a quick fix (unless we do a pep type spending and even then he still had a shit load of class players who won titles) - from our starting lineup only DDG has won a title and even he seems to be regressing

Also we need to not care what other clubs are doing and stick to a plan
 

Ballist1x

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Because he's trying to rebuild a huge club and squad after 6 years of poor decisions, it takes longer than 6 months and 1 transfer window to do that. He's making the right changes and choices behind the scenes, if he continues to do that results on the pitch will follow. The impatience of football fans these days is ridiculous, you'd have sacked SAF in 88/89 with this attitude, in fact you'd probably have sacked him in 03/04 with this attitude.
He's not rebuilding a club that git relegated and lost many if their top players like Juventus did.

The players we have are with hundreds of millions between them, not hundreds if thousands.

The teams we have been dropping points to got absolutely drilled by the other top clubs for the most part.
 

Massive Spanner

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The problem with Ole is that he seems to do everything right off the pitch and everything wrong on it. He should be a DoF, not manager.
 

Leftback99

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There have been quite a few studies and articles about how much of an impact the manager actually has. This is probably one of the better ones that I have seen. Basically it says

The best predictor of a club’s success is not who picks the team but the squad’s total wage bill. High wages attract good players. The higher the wage bill, the better the team typically performs. Averaged over 10 seasons, correlation between wage bill and final league position is about 90 per cent, says Stefan Szymanski, an economist at the University of Michigan (with whom I wrote the book Soccernomics).
It goes on to note the diminishing role of the Manager, who is now basically the Head Coach, and is surrounded by data analysts, physicians, physiologists and who knows what. It points out that Leicester bucked the wage bill theory but that their data analysts identified N'Golo Kanté and Riyad Mahrez so were probably more influential that Claudio Ranieri in Leicester winning the league. The reason other clubs have taken them and not Ranieri.

if Leicester won thanks to the genius of their manager, Claudio Ranieri, it is odd that his genius did not manifest itself in his previous 30 years in coaching.
The article goes on to say that the money predicts 92% of a club's success, then we have all the specialist departments that contribute - but you still can't disregard the effects of Sir Alex, Brian Clough etc -- even if they did that when they were Managers and not Head Coaches.

Your gut instinct tells you that a Manager has to have some effect - it just isn't as great as it used to be or as great as they get given credit for or criticized for.


https://www.ft.com/content/0f79860e-605e-11e6-ae3f-77baadeb1c93

And wage bill should correlate to the quality of the squad. We massively overpay for what we've got. I've asked for examples on here of managers who have got average squads competing at the top of the PL, apart from the Leicester anomaly no one has come up with any examples.
 

Kush

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I just want to know why we've chosen him in particular for this rebuild.
We never chose Ole for one, he was hired because we wanted to avoid a rebuild. Let us rewind the clock a year ago. All we heard from Mourinho was how shit this squad was, how it needed significant investment to compete with City, neither the board nor us fans (majority of them) bought into his non-sense. Ole steps in and we start winning matches left, right and center including some massive victories away from home at Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea. The PSG win further solidified belief among fans and the board that the squad is not lacking in quality, after all Ole was extracting the maximum from players. Glazers and Ed had their perfect manager, who would not cost a massive amount in wages and can keep us competing with moderate investment.

Obviously, this plan went tits up after we went on that abysmal run at the end of last season. Ole himself said that the squad needs a rebuild over next few windows, they were hardly going to sack a manager weeks after appointing him were they? Ole was never supposed to be in-charge of this rebuild, it only became apparent once he got the permanent job and by that time it was too late for board to do anything.
 

MrBest

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Ole got rid of Fellaini, Sanchez, Smalling, Lukaku and Darmian. He had no choice in Ander leaving. If anything, Ole upheld his side of the deal and deserves a medal for getting rid of players who have no purpose nor fit the style we should be playing. Ed has put Ole in a awful position by not committing to replace in areas we needed. The signings that ole has made have actually been great, AWB has been our best player in my opinion, James although nowhere near the finished article is looking like he will be a great signing at 15m and Maguire who probably is in the top 5 CB in the premier league has assured some sort of stability. The movements are there, it is just much slower than we were promised. We needed two more players this summer but that could lead to a few academy players coming in and making a name for themselves. Anyone who thought we may get 4th at the end of last season is wrong. I think ed and ole have factored in a 6th place finish. If ole gets 4th, he deserves a statue as does Jose for finishing 2nd a few years back.
 

He'sRaldo

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Our recent winning standards were due to Sir Alex, not due to "We're Man United!!!" or any other such sentiment. Thus, it was logical that when the arguably best manager ever was to retire, we shouldn't expect to win the league constantly, as we did with him at the helm.


Obviously a lot of our fans are having problems coming to terms with this, which im my opinion is a cause of the seeming mass grief and hysteria that we witness online.


However, it must be stated that while we're not in the Barcelona and Real Madrid echelon, who win titles with any and every manager they hire, we're still a very good club with resources to be mounting challenges consistently, and in that sense, we have fallen short recently. It's just that, we've been a very manager-oriented club historically and thus our success usually depends on the brilliance of world-class managers, rather than being Man United; unfortunately, our recent managers haven't been the very best.


That being said, right now our standards are less for Ole than Sir Alex because Ole isn't as good as sir Alex, and we as a club don't have the ability to succeed despite the manager. I would assume Ole was hired to get us away from the PSG-like mercenary culture we had slowly started to imbibe since the Great Man retired, and get us back on the right track mentality-wise. After which hopefully, we can find a world-class manager to bring us back to the top.


Of course, all of that is hypothetical. Whether or not it comes to fruition is yet to be seen.
 

SadlerMUFC

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For the last 6 years...?

If decisions were put to a vote...?

Yeah... we'd be in a better place as a club - easily.
The last 6 years were horrible. Now we are finally doing things right and the OP is calling for the manager to be sacked? Give your head a shake. We are finally moving in the right direction and doing things the United way. Remember, when Klopp took over at Liverpool they weren't doing any better than they were with Rogers. But they were moving in the right direction. Now here we are 4 games into the season where we are moving in the right direction and people are calling for Ole to be sacked? Absolutely ridiculous :lol::lol::lol:
 

JustAGuest

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Is this really a thread? Can you imagine if the Caf was given the ability to make decisions at the club??? :lol::lol::lol:
We would be kneejerking out the players and manager with every bad result. No chance we would actually accomplish anything long term.
 

Andycoleno9

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Settle down children...

Sack ole and then what?

Ole has a vision, a long term vision and we are witnessing the dour period of a transition which will obviously take some time to flourish.

We were so close to having 9 points out of 3 games. It’s the small details that are derailing us at the moment... under mourinho and LVG it was systematic chaos. Give the bloke some time. If we finish in the bottom half of the table then of course we should be considering his position.

Until then, have some fecking patience... we can’t expect things to be great over night.

We will be buggered if we start going through the same viscous cycle again. Sign a prestigious manger and look for the quick fix, it just simply doesn’t work...

So yeah lower your expectations, we won’t be challenging this season and if you think we should your not thinking clearly or deluded at best.
Bottom half of the table? This is just better and better...
What will be next? Avoid relegation?
 

fergiesarmy1

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Laughable if you think this is 'things going right'...

We're in relegation form and if Ole were to lose the next 3 games -

Foxes (H)
West Ham (A)
Arse (H)

He'll probably be sacked.
In that scenario god forbid, who would want to take over :lol:
 

snowkarl

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The last 6 years were horrible. Now we are finally doing things right and the OP is calling for the manager to be sacked? Give your head a shake. We are finally moving in the right direction and doing things the United way. Remember, when Klopp took over at Liverpool they weren't doing any better than they were with Rogers. But they were moving in the right direction. Now here we are 4 games into the season where we are moving in the right direction and people are calling for Ole to be sacked? Absolutely ridiculous :lol::lol::lol:
Is anyone else having trouble telling satire from reality these days?

Top reds unite :lol::lol:

Since when is the United way aiming for total mediocrity and small minded Liverpudlian-like mentality?

Biggest club in the world and the 'RIGHT, United way' is like 5 wins in 20 and being happy with it?

:rolleyes:
 

Rista

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Because this time it's different! And Ole is a nice guy.

In all seriousness, he should be judged the same as every other manager we've had post SAF. Even Mourinho proved the squad not being good enough for top 4 is nonsense. If the squad isn't good enough for top 4 then how do we explain the amazing run that got Ole the job in the first place? Was it just luck and new manager bounce effect? If so, we're truly fecked.
 

NWRed

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He's not rebuilding a club that git relegated and lost many if their top players like Juventus did.

The players we have are with hundreds of millions between them, not hundreds if thousands.

The teams we have been dropping points to got absolutely drilled by the other top clubs for the most part.
No, he's rebuilding a club structure and ethos, not just a squad, that is now unrecognisable from that which has led to all its success from Sir Matt onwards. It took SAF, an undoubted genius, 5 years to properly sort it out. 10 months and 1 transfer window and the muppets are calling for Ole's head because we've drawn 2 games and lost 1, it's just absurd. Idiots like that don't deserve to be called fans.
 

ash_86

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He's not rebuilding a club that git relegated and lost many if their top players like Juventus did.

The players we have are with hundreds of millions between them, not hundreds if thousands.

The teams we have been dropping points to got absolutely drilled by the other top clubs for the most part.
How many of these players would get into top 6 of other teams in our league? Just because we had a expensive squad doesn't mean we have a good one.
 

SaintMuppet

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I wonder what division we would be in if people on this forum actually ran the club.

We have tried quick fix after quick fix with little success. Now a little patience is needed to go down another path, let’s see how things look next summer.

But no!!! Too many entitled want it now folks around.
 

bosnian_red

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Champions league finalist, continual top four finishes .... completely brainless perspective
The point is his first sentence was that any other club with that run of form would sack their manager. And I took the exact manager that most on here want to come here, having the exact same run of form at another club. I'm not shitting on Poch. I'm saying it's a run of form out of context over 2 seasons saying how fecking dumb this thread is.

Yes, we would all love to win the title right away. But football doesn't work like that. You don't just go and become title winners over a summer, even with the best coaches and players in the world. Takes time to build something, and it'll take time for us.
 

red4ever 79

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The problem with Ole is that he seems to do everything right off the pitch and everything wrong on it. He should be a DoF, not manager.
Agree with this. Says all the right things, instills the Utd ethos, making some good decisions in terms of getting rid of players, very poor tactically, poor coaching and not ruthless enough in changing games
 

Wilt

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Laughable if you think this is 'things going right'...

We're in relegation form and if Ole were to lose the next 3 games -

Foxes (H)
West Ham (A)
Arse (H)

He'll probably be sacked.
Losing to both Leicester and WH would signal the end for me. The thought of Ole suffering the ‘coup de gras’ at the hands of Arse is sickening.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Towards the end of the season, Ole basically told us fans - bold as fecking brass - that finishing SIXTH this season would be a fecking battle. The standards were set before the summer window even opened - Ole told us that we were screwed.

At any other big club in the world, if a manager came out and told the fans 'expect to be lucky to finish 6th next season', there would be absolute bloodshed. There would be riots.

If any other manager other than Ole said those words at United, there would be fecking hell to pay - remember Jose's 'heritage' comments? Yeah those didn't go down well, did they.

But at Man United, when it's a former player telling us those words, our fanbase goes "oh alright then, understandable I suppose".

We reap what we sow. We've allowed Ed and co to do this without any sort of blowback, we deserve what we get.
 

Phil Osophy

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Last season he got 3rd most points in the league since he came in December, with 4 points more than Arsenal, 5 more than Chelsea and 8 more than Spurs. He won two rounds of the FA Cup against Arsenal and Chelsea and one against PSG in the Champions League, so despite the luck in certain moments he did better than expected. This season we should be higher in the league table based on performances and chances created and conceded, which would give us a more relaxed view about things.

We had a terrible ending of the season with the players looking shot, some of them were distracted with their personal situation (Herrera, Pogba, De Gea, Lukaku) and went on holidays for the last month or so. We could have won against Chelsea if De Gea had been focused, and we would have faced the last two games with hopes of qualifying instead of the way we did. Despite everything we weren't far from getting a top 4 place that looked almost impossible in December.

Now we drop standards after seeing the squad being weakened in key zones this summer, with the club being more focused on readjusting the spend on salaries than trying to compete, something reasonable considering that the numbers were out of control, and would have limited our margins to operate in the future. We drop standards because with the current players, the holes in midfield and attack we can't aspire to anything serious anyway.

I mean, a bunch of clueless athletes with awful decision making and terrible passing skills bar one or two, naive strikers that can't score to save his life, some past it dross, teenagers without experience on the bench, some others without commitment, a tormented keeper glued to the goal line. That's our team in a nutshell, so it's pointless to put anyone on his seat to have the same exact limitations.

Also, Watford is nobody to decide how you need to proceed in football, and if we follow their example we should hire LVG again, like they're doing with Quique Flores. Fortunately there's more examples in football and different ways to go. Last season Marcelino Toral was under pressure at Valencia around mid season, I'm seeing now they won 4 games in the first half of the league, and ended up getting top 4, winning the Cup against Barcelona and losing in the semifinals of the EL against Arsenal.

Bad dynamics can happen to everyone, but if there's positive signs like a team playing for the manager, good energetic displays and outplaying the opposition like we did in the last 3 games (52 shots against 21), it's better to wait until the winds change to your favour than throwing everything down the drain. In our current situation and rebuilding the squad radically, readjusting the salaries, reorganizing the club structures, you have to give the manager certain margin because everyone would find the same obstacles and limitations, and you could spend the whole season sacking managers if you're not convinced with the result.

Once we're in a better state with a defined long term plan and a proper DoF overseeing everything, it would be the right time to let the football professionals do their job, evaluate the squad, the manager, the options available, and make a decision based on the long term strategy that has been set. Until then, the standards will be low because we're paying the bills after 6 years of mismanagement at every level, and we have deeper issues that need to be solved first.
 

Mr PG

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Ole would struggle to get a job in the championship.

1 clean sheet in 19 is the most damning statistic. Now we have AWB and Maguire and trend still looks to continue.
 

Greck

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Ole would struggle to get a job in the championship.

1 clean sheet in 19 is the most damning statistic. Now we have AWB and Maguire and trend still looks to continue.
One of the clearest examples that buying isn't all there is to coaching. If true we might have a worse clean sheet rate than we did when deadwood like Young and Smalling were still starting in previous seasons. This after buying two stellar defensive players
 
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Rhyme Animal

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
You accidentally deleted the white text.
Yeah, Ed fecking Woodward knows more about what players to sign, what contracts to hand out and what managers to employ than Redcafe does collectively...

Oh wait, no he doesn't.

Redcafe wouldn't have hired Moyes
Redcafe wouldn't have given Moyes a 6 year contract
Redcafe would've shipped out 'deadwood' long before last Summer
Redcafe wouldn't have extended Mourinho' contract
Redcafe wouldn't have not backed Mourinho after finishing 2nd

I could go on...

Redcafe wouldn't be thinking of profits for the Glazers

Redcafe would be thinking about what is best for Man Utd
 

coolredwine

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Lets wait and see...

Watford have, in recent years, established themselves a PL club by being utterly ruthless with their managers.

They regularly do this, and they most often do well from it.
:lol:

United has had 4 managers in the last 6 years. What has that merrygoaround got us?
 

Leftback99

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Yeah, Ed fecking Woodward knows more about what players to sign, what contracts to hand out and what managers to employ than Redcafe does collectively...

Oh wait, no he doesn't.

Redcafe wouldn't have hired Moyes
Redcafe wouldn't have given Moyes a 6 year contract
Redcafe would've shipped out 'deadwood' long before last Summer
Redcafe wouldn't have extended Mourinho' contract
Redcafe wouldn't have not backed Mourinho after finishing 2nd

I could go on...

Redcafe wouldn't be thinking of profits for the Glazers

Redcafe would be thinking about what is best for Man Utd
Redcafe would still have given Solskjaer the permanent job.