Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?

TMDaines

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Couldn’t stop thinking about this thread during the match. Where’s the sense of anger and determination to get this right? Where’s the embarrassment at consistent failure to perform? A real desire for the club and the shirt seems to be lacking as much as anything from way too many players and the staff.
 

SportingCP96

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He is not a top level coach and should of never got the full time job. We are literally talking about a guy who is a worse coach than MOYES.

Love him to death as a player and as a person but he is a dreadful coach.
 

Utdstar01

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Dropped standards as fans and as a club. Can't believe we have fans saying we played well yesterday. We didn't even have a shot on target!
 

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We are dropping standards for the Glazers. They have appointed a manager who suits them down to the ground.

We're not blessed with alternatives. I doubt if any decent manager would take the job whilst these owners plague the club.
 

Andycoleno9

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In Ole's era our standards dropped in everything. Even fans dropped standards, not just the club. When United fan is satisfied with top 6 and thinks that point away against Wolves or Southampton is good then something is wrong. Also i remember how in the past we(fans) were very picky regarding players. Now we tolerate a lot. Passion, hard working and desire became main traits for players. Fans favourites are players who are very limited in football skill but have "right attitude".
It is not the way to the top. United players must have excellent skill on the first place(for position where they play) and then we can talk about other traits.
 

MrBest

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Dropped standards as fans and as a club. Can't believe we have fans saying we played well yesterday. We didn't even have a shot on target!
To be honest, shots on target is sometimes misinterpreted. Hitting the crossbar is closer than shottimg directly at the goalie. I would not wholly put down that we played badly, down to no shots on target. I cannot comment on the performance as i didn't see it but I am sure that our standard was pure rubbish, we passed the ball around with no convinction and we allowed Wolves to press whilst we waited for a counter. Your point on dropped standards is absolutely true, people are now prepared to accept the poor coaching from our staff. Woodward is a weasel but he does not coach the players, i see no evidence of coaching.
 

Andersonson

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Undrstanding reality has nothing to do with dropping standards. We aint a top team.

It will take some time with the current regime to get there, but i think Ole is the right guy.

In the start City threw money at everything, still havent won the CL... Money aint always the answer to everything
 

Florida Man

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It doesn't have to be one or the other. It's possible to have the opinion that United's overall standard needs to be among the top and nothing else but also have the opinion that we play well considering the quality we currently have. That being said, I wouldn't characterize this recent game as us playing well.
 

RedDevil@84

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The dropping of standards in the Ole era is a culmination of six years of "hard" work done by Moyes, LvG, Jose and above all Ed Woodward in terms of running the club, transfers, philosophy and man management. After all these years of mediocrity, many fans have resigned to the fact that we are not a top club and top players or even small talents are not flocking to the club, unless blinded by loads of money.
Yes, there are a few folks who are seeing some brilliant thing Ole is doing and are confident of greater heights next season. But don't think we are being overwhelmed with Ole fan boys, neither on this forum or in the social media.
 

meamth

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Undrstanding reality has nothing to do with dropping standards. We aint a top team.

It will take some time with the current regime to get there, but i think Ole is the right guy.

In the start City threw money at everything, still havent won the CL... Money aint always the answer to everything
Nah, they will always tell you that you're accepting mediocrity, clueless and delusional.
 

Champagne Football

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Since Ole has arrived he's turned kids such as Williams, Greenwood, Scott McTominay and soon to be Garner and probably Tuanzebe, into first reamers.

He's spent very little on Daniel James and the talent is very clear to see.

He's turned Fred from no hoper under Jose, to important first team member.

All of his signings has been successful.

His only mistake so far was not selling Pogba.

The season is a write-off already, and between now and June, for every game we win, we will lose the next one. We're a midtable team, but if Ole can fix the huge holes in the team in the summer, and make 3 really top signings such as Milinkovic-Savic, Moussa Dembele and Sean Longstaff(who should come good again soon) then I feel Ole can turn it around.
 

Nickelodeon

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Since Ole has arrived he's turned kids such as Williams, Greenwood, Scott McTominay and soon to be Garner and probably Tuanzebe, into first reamers.

He's spent very little on Daniel James and the talent is very clear to see.

He's turned Fred from no hoper under Jose, to important first team member.

All of his signings has been successful.

His only mistake so far was not selling Pogba.

The season is a write-off already, and between now and June, for every game we win, we will lose the next one. We're a midtable team, but if Ole can fix the huge holes in the team in the summer, and make 3 really top signings such as Milinkovic-Savic, Moussa Dembele and Sean Longstaff(who should come good again soon) then I feel Ole can turn it around.
Already making excuses for a player who is not ever ours yet? Why would we buy a Newcastle player who isn't even coming good yet?
 

Jeffthered

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Dropped standards as fans and as a club. Can't believe we have fans saying we played well yesterday. We didn't even have a shot on target!
I agree 100%.

This is such an important point, I have stated this on many occasions in Redcafe. Like many, I accept a period that will be a building process in many ways, but this simple, shoulder-shrugging acceptance of clearly average performances, followed with often contradictory comments from Ole on whether he feels the team are progressing under his management.. I'm fed up with it. All RVP said was he wanted to see more 'bite' from OGS..he was right, and was not being abusive at all...

OGS needs to get a grip of things.
 

red4ever 79

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Standards have dropped across the board. We have gone from a team who should be winning titles, to a team that should be challenging for titles, to a team who should be in the top 4, to a team that might have a chance at top 4.

Mediocrity has sunk in over a period of times and Ed, Ole and the Glazers are to blame.

We as fans have been brainwashed that a rebuild is going to take time and we should accept what we have seen this season? A rebuild that so far has seen only 3 players arrive and about 7 leave.
 

Champagne Football

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Already making excuses for a player who is not ever ours yet? Why would we buy a Newcastle player who isn't even coming good yet?
He was outstanding last season. He'll more than likely get back to that level. He's been utter garbage this season but so was Henderson, Milner, Fletcher, McTominay etc when they all started out. Its very possible he'll find his form again soon.
He's probably one of our most realistic targets too in the summer with Saul, Partey, Rice, Neves etc highly unlikely
 

Jerome Holland

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There is no right or wrong answer, you either Ole in or Ole out some are in between. I am Ole out but that does not matter, the only reason he is in this job for so long is because the Glazers have a shield in him. Scholes, Rio,Nev, Schmeicel all of them are not helping the cause with their bias towards Ole. The fact is that if he wasnt their friend he wouldve had more swords pointed him.
 

432JuanMata

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He was outstanding last season. He'll more than likely get back to that level. He's been utter garbage this season but so was Henderson, Milner, Fletcher, McTominay etc when they all started out. Its very possible he'll find his form again soon.
He's probably one of our most realistic targets too in the summer with Saul, Partey, Rice, Neves etc highly unlikely
He played 9 PL games last season ?? We are already inconsistent we don’t need to sign more players who might get there eventually right now we need players 24+ who perform week in week out in my opinion
 

Marcelinho87

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We dropped standards the day we hired Moyes. No other top club would have ever gone ahead with that appointment.
 

lysglimt

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There is no right or wrong answer, you either Ole in or Ole out some are in between. I am Ole out but that does not matter, the only reason he is in this job for so long is because the Glazers have a shield in him. Scholes, Rio,Nev, Schmeicel all of them are not helping the cause with their bias towards Ole. The fact is that if he wasnt their friend he wouldve had more swords pointed him.
Yeah or maybe some of them accept that firing wont help a lot ? Could it get better with a new manager - maybe! Could it get worse - absolutely. The fact is with or without OGS - you can see signs of a future United-team.

In goal we have DDG, Romero and Henderson

At left back we have Williams who will take over for Shaw.

At right back we have Wan-Bissake and Laird behind him

Centrally we have VL, Maguire and Tuanzebe - if we get one more really good defender in, this should be sorted.

Central midfield - an injury free McTominay and Fred - we have Garner and Levitt behind them. Pogba will go so we need to get 2 creative players in.

Up front Martial, Greenwood and Rashford.

Give him time to get rid of Mata, Matic, Jones, Rojo, Lingard - maybe even Shaw, and replace them with 3-4 quality players - as well as more experience from Williams, McT, Tuanzebe, Garner and Greenwood - and this team will be good. I have NO doubts about it.
 

PoTMS

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We dropped standards the day we hired Moyes. No other top club would have ever gone ahead with that appointment.
Madrid, Bayern and Barcelona have all hired average managers in the recent past. The key is to get rid of them ASAP and replace them with quality. Our problem is we keep hiring the wrong manager.
 
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Madrid, Bayern and Barcelona have all hired average managers in the recent past. The key is to get rid of them ASAP and replace them with quality. Our problem is we keep hiring the wrong manager.
Aye,
Yeah or maybe some of them accept that firing wont help a lot ? Could it get better with a new manager - maybe! Could it get worse - absolutely. The fact is with or without OGS - you can see signs of a future United-team.

In goal we have DDG, Romero and Henderson

At left back we have Williams who will take over for Shaw.

At right back we have Wan-Bissake and Laird behind him

Centrally we have VL, Maguire and Tuanzebe - if we get one more really good defender in, this should be sorted.

Central midfield - an injury free McTominay and Fred - we have Garner and Levitt behind them. Pogba will go so we need to get 2 creative players in.

Up front Martial, Greenwood and Rashford.
You’re right, what a team he’s building. Next year will be our year!
My God some of our fans would have fit in so well on RAWK back in the day.

The 2 creative players will be Pogba gone and Can & Grealish in. :drool:
 
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SambaBoy

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I think the board are hesitant to sack Ole. As it would be reverting back to square one, where we have to look for a new manager without a clear plan in place for the medium to long term. We still haven't appointed a director of football despite constant talk.

If we sack Ole then we are left with the danger of appointing another flop and then what? The most risk free appointment is Pochettino but even Poch has his question marks. If we appoint someone like Nagelsmann and he can't cope with the pressure of managing United or he can't work under our system then what?
 
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I think the board are hesitant to sack Ole. As it would be reverting back to square one, where we have to look for a new manager without a clear plan in place for the medium to long term. We still haven't appointed a director of football despite constant talk.

If we sack Ole then we are left with the danger of appointing another flop and then what? The most risk free appointment is Pochettino but even Poch has his question marks. If we appoint someone like Nagelsmann and he can't cope with the pressure of managing United or he can't work under our system then what?
Why is it square one? By all accounts all 3 of Maguire, AWB & James were club signings by the new transfer board rather than manager-specific.
And Ole’s vision is clearly in fact a club vision, otherwise Ole doesn’t gets the job in the first place.

The smart move would be to interview the likes of Poch & Nagelsman and employ the one who buys into the clubs vision and impresses the most. That’s called due diligence, something our club have completely ignored since SAF retired, instead just been reactionary.

Hopefully and I think it’s the case, Ole was employed because they now realise what a mistake that was.
I’m fairly certain Poch would love this job and could continue rebuilding and improving our young players, whilst getting better results and coaching them better.
If in 3 years Poch aint the man to take us all the way back to the top, due diligence starts again with the next step.

The only reason we kept going back to square one previously is because we jumped from polar opposite manager to polar opposite manager. The club’s vision now and Ole’s match up, Poch’s would too because that’s how he’s worked everywhere.
 

ArjenIsM3

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Why is it square one? By all accounts all 3 of Maguire, AWB & James were club signings by the new transfer board rather than manager-specific.
And Ole’s vision is clearly in fact a club vision, otherwise Ole doesn’t gets the job in the first place.

The smart move would be to interview the likes of Poch & Nagelsman and employ the one who buys into the clubs vision and impresses the most. That’s called due diligence, something our club have completely ignored since SAF retired, instead just been reactionary.

Hopefully and I think it’s the case, Ole was employed because they now realise what a mistake that was.
I’m fairly certain Poch would love this job and could continue rebuilding and improving our young players, whilst getting better results and coaching them better.
If in 3 years Poch aint the man to take us all the way back to the top, due diligence starts again with the next step.
People have been calling for us to sack Ole on here after half a season and one transfer window. What makes you think Poch would get three years?
 

GBBQ

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People have been calling for us to sack Ole on here after half a season and one transfer window. What makes you think Poch would get three years?
Because Poch has a managerial track record that would suggest that he is worth sticking with, while Ole doesn't. I don't think any fan expects us to be challenging for the title next season (regardless of who is in charge) so its not that the fans expect a quick fix. The worry is that Ole is actually having a negative impact and that we're getting worse instead of slowly better hence the calls for the sack.
 

ColvaleGoa

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Until and unless we sign more players it is always going to be what if? with Ole. With or without Ole something is Rotten at the top that is not allowing us to progress. Everyone knows how dire our midfield options are, Chelsea or City would have splashed out without blinking to give them a chance. Whilst we have 800 scouts w***ing themselves silly over Maddison who is not going bro happen in January. And we are dreaming that someone like Sancho is going to come at United? We need to accept we are going to be in the mire till Glazers are here. Won't make a difference if it is Ole or Poch.
 

Jerome Holland

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Why is it square one? By all accounts all 3 of Maguire, AWB & James were club signings by the new transfer board rather than manager-specific.
And Ole’s vision is clearly in fact a club vision, otherwise Ole doesn’t gets the job in the first place.

The smart move would be to interview the likes of Poch & Nagelsman and employ the one who buys into the clubs vision and impresses the most. That’s called due diligence, something our club have completely ignored since SAF retired, instead just been reactionary.

Hopefully and I think it’s the case, Ole was employed because they now realise what a mistake that was.
I’m fairly certain Poch would love this job and could continue rebuilding and improving our young players, whilst getting better results and coaching them better.
If in 3 years Poch aint the man to take us all the way back to the top, due diligence starts again with the next step.

The only reason we kept going back to square one previously is because we jumped from polar opposite manager to polar opposite manager. The club’s vision now and Ole’s match up, Poch’s would too because that’s how he’s worked everywhere.
My friend you hit the nail on the head. i coudnt have said it better myself, i refrain from trying to bring my view point across as it is pointless. he has not shown me anything to suggest things could get better. Its been a year already rodgers had less time, Nuno sets his teams up better, Lampard is inexperienced but when you watch his team you know exactly what they about. So we have a coach that wants to use the most basic way of playing as a tactic counter attacking football.
 
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People have been calling for us to sack Ole on here after half a season and one transfer window. What makes you think Poch would get three years?
If we had a PL win-rate over 38%, nowhere near as many would be calling for the sack.

No-one wants Ole sacked for not challenging for the title, they just think a 38% win-rate for a Manchester United manager is beyond a joke. Add to that Ole is completely unproven at this level (or proven shite if you think Cardiff) and you should understand why people are fuxking terrified of the future with Ole at the Wheel. There’s not even the ”but look what he did here with time” is ease fans fears.

And Ole has been here over 1 year, if we just count his half season and the results, it looks absolutely horrific. Better we say over a year and include the bounce stats.
 
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dove

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Since Ole has arrived he's turned kids such as Williams, Greenwood, Scott McTominay and soon to be Garner and probably Tuanzebe, into first reamers.
:lol: You missed at least half a year where McTominay was starting most of the games under Jose but it's okay, it doesn't suit your agenda so you "forgot" it.
I wouldn't call Williams a "first teamer" just yet as he never plays when Shaw is fit.
No idea why you even mentioned Tuanzebe and Garner, they are nowhere to be seen and are a million miles away from first team but whatever.

All of his signings has been successful.
Really? :lol: We signed a "best ball playing defender in the league" for a record fee and it turned out he is not that good at passing the ball, and already cost us a few goals but people seem to ignore it because he is our new signing.
While AWB is great defensively, his attacking contribution is worse than Valencia's and it's saying something.
James? He barely did anything since August.

The season is a write-off already, and between now and June, for every game we win, we will lose the next one. We're a midtable team, but if Ole can fix the huge holes in the team in the summer, and make 3 really top signings such as Milinkovic-Savic, Moussa Dembele and Sean Longstaff(who should come good again soon) then I feel Ole can turn it around.
Interesting, Ole himself said last season that the biggest problem we had were unfit players. Once he sorts it out in the summer, we will be flying. Who could have expected there is more work to do than put fit/quick players in the starting XI? We are a midtable team because Ole made us to be. He is a relegation level manager who is desperately dragging us towards it. This team is seriously handicapped by his inability to coach and if you think Ole is a good manager for all our incoming youngsters, think again.
 

AlexUTD

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Undrstanding reality has nothing to do with dropping standards. We aint a top team.

It will take some time with the current regime to get there, but i think Ole is the right guy.

In the start City threw money at everything, still havent won the CL... Money aint always the answer to everything
Totally agree.

Ole had a huge job clearing out deadwood and players on way too high salaries. He has started well and brought in good players, but when the board does not inject extra cash for rebuilding when we have huge gaping holes in the squad. The manager`s name can be Ole, Pep, Klopp, Nagelsmann etc. but it wont help! The squad needs more quality to do better and still people scream for the managers head and not the owners of this club. Baffles me everytime.
 

romufc

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This team is seriously handicapped by his inability to coach and if you think Ole is a good manager for all our incoming youngsters, think again.
This is the problem. The caf is becoming a puppet to Ole who is a puppet to the Glazers that is why standards have been dropped.

You have mentioned fitness, yet we keep seing injuries and we look tired at the end of games.

Ok, some might argue we played too many games, let me counter that, VVD, Mane, Salah, Bobby played most of Liverpools games over Xmas, Mane didn't even have a summer break and looks like a threat every game full of running.

Wolves have played number of games and arguably were the team wanting to win the game, we settled for the draw at 75 mins.

The one thing that keeps getting mentioned is the transfers made by Ole and how good they are. I am willing to accept this as Ole's transfers if the same people are willing to accept that he is the reason why we are left with such a bleek squad and no CM's.

Praise him for the transfers and blame Ed for lack of signings.. how does that work? He keeps saying money is there but wants the right fit. There are so many CM;s moving for relatively small fees yet we keep targetting average for over inflated fees.
 

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Until and unless we sign more players it is always going to be what if? with Ole. With or without Ole something is Rotten at the top that is not allowing us to progress. Everyone knows how dire our midfield options are, Chelsea or City would have splashed out without blinking to give them a chance. Whilst we have 800 scouts w***ing themselves silly over Maddison who is not going bro happen in January. And we are dreaming that someone like Sancho is going to come at United? We need to accept we are going to be in the mire till Glazers are here. Won't make a difference if it is Ole or Poch.
I agree. No matter who the manager is, they need the backing from the owners. We still need about 5/6 players for the TEAM and more good squad players to challenge the top teams.
 

romufc

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I agree. No matter who the manager is, they need the backing from the owners. We still need about 5/6 players for the TEAM and more good squad players to challenge the top teams.
A young inconsistent team along with a thin squad will never be good enough. Rashford needs a rest but there is literally no one to replace him. Martial is very hot and cold and there is no competition for his place. None of our first team players have got competition so even a bad game from them they know they will play.

Lingard is so bad and still starts 1 in 3 games. The manager cannot just throw 4/5 kids in and hope they will be better than what we already have. We need a few players to guide the team.
 

Sandikan

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Interesting, Ole himself said last season that the biggest problem we had were unfit players. Once he sorts it out in the summer, we will be flying. Who could have expected there is more work to do than put fit/quick players in the starting XI? We are a midtable team because Ole made us to be. He is a relegation level manager who is desperately dragging us towards it. This team is seriously handicapped by his inability to coach and if you think Ole is a good manager for all our incoming youngsters, think again.
We're in 5th place! Having been without our best player for 90% of the season, and having had Martial out for ages too.

While nothing is perfect in any shape or form, he's not in any way "dragging us to relegation". That's over emotional lunacy.

What is true, is that we criminally left the squad weak in quite a few positions, and have given ourselves a monumental rebuilding job, as we don't just need players to boost the first team, but need better squaddies too. Pretty similar to how we've been since LVG stripped loads out.
 

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A young inconsistent team along with a thin squad will never be good enough. Rashford needs a rest but there is literally no one to replace him. Martial is very hot and cold and there is no competition for his place. None of our first team players have got competition so even a bad game from them they know they will play.

Lingard is so bad and still starts 1 in 3 games. The manager cannot just throw 4/5 kids in and hope they will be better than what we already have. We need a few players to guide the team.
True, and we need a couple in this window.
 

romufc

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True, and we need a couple in this window.
Will we get anyone though?

We have got to a point where we almost need anyone, there are fans ready to accept Emre Can shows how much we have dropped and how desperate we are just to get numbers in.

We can't even target quality players anymore because we know this board is not capable of getting these players this window.
 

Andrew Richmond

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Granted I am 20,000 miles away in Sydney, Australia but seriously watching from afar I don’t understand the hate for OGS.

I understand there is questions around his managerial ability but you have to balance that against the squad he had inherited to work with.

Just maybe there are proven managers out there with proven track records who could do more with our current squad of players but seriously you could count them on one hand and even then I’m not sure they could deliver any better results.

Regardless of the current results, doom and gloom on this forum which is basically toxic, I still think OGS at the very least is deserving of two more transfer windows before his becomes another statistic in the managers sacked post AF era.
 

dove

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We're in 5th place! Having been without our best player for 90% of the season, and having had Martial out for ages too.

While nothing is perfect in any shape or form, he's not in any way "dragging us to relegation". That's over emotional lunacy.

What is true, is that we criminally left the squad weak in quite a few positions, and have given ourselves a monumental rebuilding job, as we don't just need players to boost the first team, but need better squaddies too. Pretty similar to how we've been since LVG stripped loads out.
We will see at the end of the season. We are not finishing 5th you can quote me on that.
 

Bestietom

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Will we get anyone though?

We have got to a point where we almost need anyone, there are fans ready to accept Emre Can shows how much we have dropped and how desperate we are just to get numbers in.

We can't even target quality players anymore because we know this board is not capable of getting these players this window.
I agree, Fans will accept anyone they think is a little better than what we have got when we should be looking at the best out there. That's how low we have gone now. Longstaff is another who have been mentioned. He wouldn't get near the team in SAF time. I looked at many games from that time and we had better players on the bench then, than we have on the team now.
 

romufc

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I agree, Fans will accept anyone they think is a little better than what we have got when we should be looking at the best out there. That's how low we have gone now. Longstaff is another who have been mentioned. He wouldn't get near the team in SAF time. I looked at many games from that time and we had better players on the bench then, than we have on the team now.
A player who will do what? What can Longstaff do that is anything remotely special? He gets dropped by Newcastle. A good CM would be in week in week out for someone like Newcastle. Dominating the ball, creating chances, breaking up play. We don't need another side ways passer.