Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?

[Eoin McMahon]

On topic, we haven't dropped any standards. This is standard ManUtd policy where they give time for manager.

Van Gaal won 3 out of first 10 PL games and we played against only 2 strong teams. Then we were destroyed by MK dons. He should have been sacked but we didn't drop the standards. We just gave him time.

Jose also went on multiple runs where we didn't many games.

Also doubt board consider his results from last season where he was working with team that ran out of gas.

I think a big reason that Moyes, LVG and Mourinho all struggled with the job was all of them inherited squads that were full of players that either werent good enough or players that suited the previous manager.

I feel that the clearout job done this summer has been done well and finally moved on alot of the deadwood that has been there far too long. It leaves Ole with a lot more freedom to build a squad of players that fit the profile of player hes looking for. It reminds me of the slump we had between 2004-2006 when Ferguson was rebuilding the squad and a young Ronaldo and Rooney being trusted to lead the next squad.

 

[haram]

No. It's what he does at other clubs doesn't count when you rate his achievements for ManUtd. When you don't achieve much, you shouldn't be arrogant (at least going by your posts)

Same for players

When a top player goes through a rough patch the saying goes, form is temporary, class is permanent. When an average player has some good form, it is called a purple patch. That is the way it is, sorry.

 

[MikeKing]

It's like saying that Ole has done nothing before becoming our manager doesn't matter. Doesn't work like that in real life.

Sometimes it work like that, quite clearly. Ole's past won't matter if he does well here. Just like Mourinho's history didn't matter, since he in fact couldn't replicate the success from his past at the club.

 

[haram]

Sometimes it work like that, quite clearly. Ole's past won't matter if he does well here. Just like Mourinho's history didn't matter, since he in fact couldn't replicate the success from his past at the club.

When it comes to giving someone time, it does matter. When it comes to believing in someones way and methods, it does matter. Anyway, like I said, if he makes top 4 he should stay.

 

[roonster09]

When a top player goes through a rough patch the saying goes, form is temporary, class is permanent. When an average player has some good form, it is called a purple patch. That is the way it is, sorry.

Has 0 relevance to my post.

 

[haram]

Has 0 relevance to my post.

Proven class has a right to some arrogance however you want to spin it.

 

[roonster09]

Proven class has a right to some arrogance however you want to spin it.

Spin? Man you are one of most clueless posters here, but have some arrogance. Maybe you were great in some other forum, so you have right to be.

It's what they do at their club counts. That's why so many great players we signed were shipped off when it didn't work out. We can't rate players based on what they achieved elsewhere. That's why Rooney got more time even though he was on decline, as he achieved everything at this club.

Sanchez was shipped out immediately, same with Coutinho at Barca. If clubs keep players based on their achievements elsewhere then we would have squad full of ex great players.

 

[haram]

Spin? Man you are one of most clueless posters here, but have some arrogance. Maybe you were great in some other forum.

It's what they do at their club counts. That's why so many great players we signed were shipped off when it didn't work out. We can't rate players based on what they achieved elsewhere. That's why Rooney got more time even though he was on decline, as he achieved everything at this club.

Sanchez was shipped out immediately, same with Coutinho at Barca. If clubs keep players based on their achievements elsewhere then we would have squad full of ex great players.

I think you are missing the point. It is difficult to defend someone who has no track record to show they are capable of doing what the job asks of them. That's the problem with Ole.

You always have animosity when debating with me. Chill out.

 

[MikeKing]

When it comes to giving someone time, it does matter. When it comes to believing in someones way and methods, it does matter. Anyway, like I said, if he makes top 4 he should stay.

Naturally, it is always easier to believe something that has been demonstrated right before your eyes, but you can put your faith in a project without it. You just need more belief, time and patience because it is harder to recognise the process, as you haven't witnessed it before. With Mourinho it became pretty clear his methods didn't go over well with the club, sadly. So easier to make that decision of quitting the project when the premiss of the appointment is fading into something else. That might happen with Ole too and we'll find out some day but his premiss is very different to Mourinho's in a lot of ways and he should be awarded more time and patience than him, even if he is less experienced.

We're in a position where we're not trying to settle for 4th but build for the future to challenge. I support that change, and that is going to take time no matter what. So we have to accept "dropping standards" either way, based on the fact we're not good enough and if we're being realistic with regards to our squad we would probably do very well to just about secure top 4. For me anyways, its about how we do it. If there is enough positive changes, then I don't care if we write this season off in terms of our position in the league table.

 

[Eoin McMahon]

Looking at the squad for this season realistically at best we are hoping top 4 at best. Out of the top 6 we have the weakest squad and also the youngest squad which lacks experience.

With the clear out of players that either weren't good enough or just didn't suit our play style while good for the long term of replacing them quality players that suit our team not signing replacements this summer leaves us with a very thin squad and it will tough when all the cup fixtures come around on top of our league games. I feel that as long as the team shows signs of consistency and chemistry as the season progresses then Ole will be backed and will have next summer to make the right signing and not have to rush into another Falcao or Fellaini fiasco.

However if the season continues in the same vain as last season then a decision has to be made. If he is to be replaced then we cant rush into a big name manager again the manager must be one that would have the same ideals as our club and if theirs a manager that the boat has to be pushed out for it would be Pochettino.

Back to the here and now and I know its hard to accept that we are not a top team anymore and that teams don't fear us like before. The great teams of Ronaldo,Rooney and Tevez to Keane, Yorke and Stam are in the past and its time to wake up and see that it will take time but that is what our club needs:time.

 

[haram]

That might happen with Ole too and we'll find out some day but his premiss is very different to Mourinho's in a lot of ways and he should be awarded more time and patience than him, even if he is less experienced.

This, I simply cannot agree with. It's hoping on a fantasy.

 

[Sky1981]

My position for every united manager is the same, apart from personal bias.

Top 4 or sack. Considerations given if they win a trophy

Ole, LVG, Jose, Moyes, anyone. stays the same.

Already people moving the standards so low for Ole, that they reneged the very demand they made on Jose's tenure. It was "trophy next season or boot", but now it's "any top half finish is good, Ole needs time"

 

[7even]

How many more losses can we take before some of our important players stops to believe in this new project?

 

[haram]

How many more losses can we take before some of our important players stops to believe in this new project?

I have my doubts that de Gea and Pogba even believe in this club going forward regardless.

 

[Eoin McMahon]

This, I simply cannot agree with. It's hoping on a fantasy.

If Pochettino becomes available and willing to become our manager next summer I feel it would be opportunity we would be silly not to take up.

 

[haram]

If Pochettino becomes available and willing to become our manager next summer I feel it would be opportunity we would be silly not to take up.

Yes, I think he may be able to cross the line of winning trophies here. He has done a good job in England with two clubs already.

 

[MikeKing]

This, I simply cannot agree with. It's hoping on a fantasy.

Lets not be childish. The premiss is clearly different. Unless you (purposely) misunderstood me, I'm not sure how you can disagree.

If Mourinho told us he would clear out the squad, change his style of football to something positive and needed time because he had to go on a couple of seasons with one of the youngest squads in the league and build from that? He would have my blessing too.

 

[haram]

Lets not be childish. The premiss is clearly different. Unless you (purposely) misunderstood me, I'm not sure how you can disagree.

If Mourinho told us he would clear out the squad, change his style of football to something positive and needed time because he had to go on a couple of seasons with one of the youngest squads in the league and build from that? He would have my blessing too.

I'm not being childish. He shouldn't get more time than others when his methods have never been proven elsewhere. It would just be believing the words of a rookie because he used to play for us.

 

[MikeKing]

I'm not being childish. He shouldn't get more time than others when his methods have never been proven elsewhere. It would just be believing the words of a rookie because he used to play for us.

You seem to think that, by being inpatient and spreading nervousness you are doing something that is right for the club. That is what you believe. That is actually 'hoping on a fantasy' as you said. You're not going to fix anything any sooner by doing that. Even if we change the manager today you'd only feel rejuvenated for a second until the next manager is on board, and you'd still have a long way to just wait and see how he does. Lots of ups and downs. I don't see why you're so negative towards Ole being awarded some of that time. It is not like he will stay at the club unless he proves himself worthy.

 

[haram]

You seem to think that, by being inpatient and spreading nervousness you are doing something that is right for the club. That is what you believe. That is actually 'hoping on a fantasy' as you said. You're not going to fix anything any sooner by doing that. Even if we change the manager today you'd only feel rejuvenated for a second until the next manager is on board, and you'd still have a long way to just wait and see how he does. Lots of ups and downs. I don't see why you're so negative towards Ole being awarded some of that time. It is not like he will stay at the club unless he proves himself worthy.

I said if he gets top 4 then he should stay. If he wins the europa he should stay. Anything else he needs to go. If he does not qualify for the CL, I'm not buying into a long term fantasy of someone who has never proven anything.

 

[RedRonaldo]

There’s no drop of standard. We are just giving him a minimum 1 full season to proof himself, like every other managers who have failed here before him.

 

[Red_toad]

What exactly would sacking Ole achieve apart from setting us back another 12 months while the new guy brings in his own personnel.

I feel sorry for people that cannot see the good progress we’ve made under Ole despite the results. I truly believe the results will come eventually.

His signings have been spot on thus far. Just a shame the squad is paper thin in vital areas. We actually have a style of play.
On the downside we’ve still no coping strategies for team that sit deep. (Still)
We’re relying on players who’ve never hit the required amount of goals over a season to get us vital points.

 

[roonster09]

I think you are missing the point. It is difficult to defend someone who has no track record to show they are capable of doing what the job asks of them. That's the problem with Ole.

You always have animosity when debating with me. Chill out.

Thats only half of the point. The other half is what you achieve at the club counts, not what you achieve elsewhere.

If achieving something gives the right to be arrogant, then no one achieved that at ManUtd post SAF.

 

[MikeKing]

I said if he gets top 4 then he should stay. If he wins the europa he should stay. Anything else he needs to go. If he does not qualify for the CL, I'm not buying into a long term fantasy of someone who has never proven anything.

No, I get that. But how do you know how you're going to feel at the end of the season? It is not like our squad is that good. We may get 4th and feel that Ole got us there by pure luck and that our players are not good enough, or we might come 7th and feel like we're really on to something with a lot of the squad improving at the end of the season. We just don't know. All we know right now is to expect a lot of ups and downs with this young squad.

 

[haram]

No, I get that. But how do you know how you're going to feel at the end of the season? It is not like our squad is that good. We may get 4th and feel that Ole got us there by pure luck and that our players are not good enough, or we might come 7th and feel like we're really on to something with a lot of the squad improving at the end of the season. We just don't know. All we know right now is to expect a lot of ups and downs with this young squad.

I don't know but if we finish 7th Ole can feck right off. There is no excuse for that, sorry.

 

[MikeKing]

I don't know but if we finish 7th Ole can feck right off. There is no excuse for that, sorry.

There is. Rashford not scoring. Lingard not improving. Martial injury. Pogba injury. A lot less can happen and we'd be majorly fecked.

Honestly, if the first two points about Rashford and Lingard stands true then we might even have to rely on Greenwood, Gomes, Chong, Garner etc. We're already depending on McTominay this season, trying to phase out Matic and Mata. I would rather come 8th and feel good about our youngsters getting a lot of minutes late in the season, than watching Mata and Matic barely scraping us through 4-5th.

 

[haram]

There is. Rashford not scoring. Lingard not improving. Martial injury. Pogba injury. A lot less can happen and we'd be majorly fecked.

Every team has injuries. He sold Lukaku and didn't sign a midfielder. 7th would be a farce. No excuses.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

There is. Rashford not scoring. Lingard not improving. Martial injury. Pogba injury. A lot less can happen and we'd be majorly fecked.

Who the feck is responsible for that?

 

[haram]

Of course if Rashford did not score and Lingard did not improve under Mourinho, it was the managers fault. Apparently players not performing is not Ole's fault though. Like I said, no excuse for 7th.

 

[MikeKing]

You guys are totally unrealistic if you expect this team to walk into top 4 with a lot of injuries while Rashford and Lingard keeps on struggling.

 

[Eoin McMahon]

Every team has injuries. He sold Lukaku and didn't sign a midfielder. 7th would be a farce. No excuses.

Who would you have brought in so as replacements?

 

[MikeKing]

Who the feck is responsible for that?

Who is responsible for Lingard not improving? I blame instagram personally.

 

[haram]

Who would you have brought in so as replacements?

Depends on how Ole wants us to play really. Regardless, letting Alexis and Lukaku go and not signing anyone was a bad decision. Maybe it wasn't Ole's fault and it was actually the board who decided that, who knows.

You guys are totally unrealistic if you expect this team to walk into top 4 with a lot of injuries while Rashford and Lingard keeps on struggling.

Stop. If it was the last manager you do not afford him these excuses to finish fecking SEVENTH.

 

[MikeKing]

Of course if Rashford did not score and Lingard did not improve under Mourinho, it was the managers fault. Apparently players not performing is not Ole's fault though. Like I said, no excuse for 7th.

So because you feel unfairly treated on behalf of Mourinho, that makes your point about 'not having any excuses for coming 7th' particularly true, and you had to repeat it? I don't follow.

 

[Hawks2008]

There is. Rashford not scoring. Lingard not improving. Martial injury. Pogba injury. A lot less can happen and we'd be majorly fecked.

Honestly, if the first two points about Rashford and Lingard stands true then we might even have to rely on Greenwood, Gomes, Chong, Garner etc. We're already depending on McTominay this season, trying to phase out Matic and Mata. I would rather come 8th and feel good about our youngsters getting a lot of minutes late in the season, than watching Mata and Matic barely scraping us through 4-5th.

It was Ole who said he was happy with the squad and has talked up all our young players, it's his fault we have to rely on Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Lingard, Greenwood, Chong etc all finally coming good. It was his choice not to sign another midfielder and persist with Scott and his choice to make his little Rashy the star man instead of replacing Lukaku adequately.

 

[haram]

So because you feel unfairly treated on behalf of Mourinho, that means your point about 'no any excuses for coming 7th' is particularly true, you had to repeat it? I don't follow.

What? There is no excuse for finishing 7th. I don't care how you want to spin it with injuries or players not performing. This is what OP means by lowering standards.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Credits for Ole:
1. One of our best ever run in recent time
2. Positive style of play, pressing and attacking
3. Clearing the deadwood
4. All his summer signings are good
5. Having one of the best preseason in years

Against:
1. One of our worst ever run in recent time, I mean sackable run
2. Leaving our squad unbalanced
3. Persistence on using Lingard, who has done feck all
4. Over reliance on Rashford, who is inconsistent
5. Lack of tactical knowledge
6. Not trusting to use more of our young players, who have done well during preseasons

 

[MikeKing]

Stop. If it was the last manager you do not afford him these excuses to finish fecking SEVENTH.

Why wouldn't I? I'm not saying I will be satisfied with finishing 7th, I'm saying I might feel more satisfied finishing 7th than 4th depending on what happens on the pitch and if I perceive a positive change or not. However, some of you guys seem to be in denial about the possibility that it actually could happen. So you have found a calm way of wrapping your head around United being shit by thinking it has to be Ole if it turns to shit, because this squad is always golden. It is always rosy until it isn't. Seriously just be patient and we'll know at the end of the season if our faith was misplaced.

 

[Eoin McMahon]

Depends on how Ole wants us to play really. Regardless, letting Alexis and Lukaku go and not signing anyone was a bad decision. Maybe it wasn't Ole's fault and it was actually the board who decided that, who knows.

That's exactly why he didn't sign any replacements because either there wasn't a player that suits or just wasn't available. We've bought too many players in the last 5-6 years that were our fourth or fifth choice or signing players that clearly didn't suit our playing style or formation. So Im happy to see we didn't go get someone like Llorente on a free or Wilson for 50 million because in the long term we'll end up trying to sell them for 2-3 years. I think the Lukaku deal made sense as although he would be ideal to have as a backup striker if he couldn't be 2nd choice then he had to be sold especially for the money involved.

I think the Sanchez deal came as a surprise to us a Ole had said before that Sanchez was going to stay however I think we had to take the chance to let him go and move on especially considering his wages upset pretty much the whole playing staff for being so much more. He had another 3 years on his contract and with him being injury prone there was always the chance he could have wound down his contract. So I think the club has done well in the long term, short term we will struggle but id rather struggle with the current squad than have seen us sign another big name flop on deadline day.

 

[haram]

That's exactly why he didn't sign any replacements because either there wasn't a player that suits or just wasn't available. We've bought too many players in the last 5-6 years that were our fourth or fifth choice or signing players that clearly didn't suit our playing style or formation. So Im happy to see we didn't go get someone like Llorente on a free or Wilson for 50 million because in the long term we'll end up trying to sell them for 2-3 years. I think the Lukaku deal made sense as although he would be ideal to have as a backup striker if he couldn't be 2nd choice then he had to be sold especially for the money involved.

I think the Sanchez deal came as a surprise to us a Ole had said before that Sanchez was going to stay however I think we had to take the chance to let him go and move on especially considering his wages upset pretty much the whole playing staff for being so much more. He had another 3 years on his contract and with him being injury prone there was always the chance he could have wound down his contract. So I think the club has done well in the long term, short term we will struggle but id rather struggle with the current squad than have seen us sign another big name flop on deadline day.

I do not buy that there is not a single striker we couldn't sign. If for example we finish outside of the top 4 and then we go into the summer saying we are only going to sign Sancho for the RW and no one else will do, it is an incredibly flawed way of building a side.