Why did we buy Fred?

[manunited1919]

I thought he had a poor game. He is slow and weak on the ball. Over the summer he’s got a lot of work to do if he is to make it in this league.

 

[cyril C]

I thought he had a poor game. He is slow and weak on the ball. Over the summer he’s got a lot of work to do if he is to make it in this league.

I think Fred had a different world in 2 halves. 1st half was sloppy slow and wrong pass. 2nd half was OK may be he cut down his fancy shit and played it simple, 2nd half was a pass.

 

[podurban2]

I think people are a bit harsh on him, he hasen’t had the chance to show his ceiling yet.

 

[#CR7]

Seems incredibly raw for a 25 year old. There are so many aspects of his game that need working on for him to make it in this league let alone at this club. I really hope he turns it around but based on what I've seen so far I don't have much hope.

 

[MadMike]

I think Fred had a different world in 2 halves. 1st half was sloppy slow and wrong pass. 2nd half was OK may be he cut down his fancy shit and played it simple, 2nd half was a pass.

2nd half was better but only because he hardly took any responsibility with the ball. With the exception of that forward run with the one-twos that ended up with the cross for Sanchez, he just turned around and immediately passed it to McTominay or Lindelof every time he got the ball. When our team was in possession he would hide between opponents while he'd let others do all the playmaking. McTominay was the one that always showed up for the ball, moved it up the pitch and tried to find Pogba or Dalot in space.

There was neither any aggression, strength or playmaking responsibility in his play. On the evidence of this game, I'd much rather trust McTominay than him in important games. One's a 26yo seasoned pro and Brazil international while the other's a 22yo on his 2nd senior season. I don't even want to compare him to Matic and Herrera.

He needs to do a lot better from his 2nd half performance if he's gonna be here past the summer. Never mind the first half performance.

 

[Freak]

Quite an average game. Lots of energy but his passing is bad.

 

[The Boy]

We bought Fred because he has the potential to become a great midfielder for us. However, it was obvious from the start that he needed at least a year to settle into his new surroundings. New club, new league, higher standards, new language, new culture, etc.

Is Fred a better player than Andreas Pereira and Scott McTominay? Yes. Did Solskjær pick Fred ahead of them against Liverpool? No. A lot of people seem to be interpreting this as Fred either just not being good enough, or that he lacks match fitness. It is true that he lacks match fitness, but so does Pereira and McTominay.

The reason that Fred doesn't get into the team is that Solskjær understands the importance of playing a balanced team, particularly against a team like Liverpool that will punish every single mistake we make. Every solid team consists of some players that has the mindset, form, experience and abilities to control a game, lets call these players the pilars of the team. If you don't have enough pilars, the team will collapse. While our defense seems to find their form and starting to show their potential, neither of them are solid enough to focus on anyone else than themselves at the moment, i.e. we have no solid pilars at the back.

Before the game even started, we lost a pilar in Matic. Fred is not good enough defensively to replace him in this kind of game, while McTominay is a more defensively solid player. He is a local lad that understands the rivalry against Liverpool, and he has performed well against them previously. McTominay was the obvious choice to replace Matic. We also missed Lingard before the game, a pilar from our front trio. When Herrera was injured, we lost another pilar. With these three pilars out, the team was simply starting to become too shaky. Andreas Pereira has been attached to the club longer than Fred, he is probably easier to instruct since he speaks english, and he understands the rivalry to Liverpool. At this extremely vulnerable situation, Solskjær had to go with the safe choice of Pereira ahead of Fred.

To put it short, Fred is still adapting to his new surroundings, which means that he is an uncertain card for us. He may perform in some games, but be completely useless in others. Our team is simply not solid enough to risk playing him ahead of a solid player like Herrera. Dalot has the same problem. Is Young a better player than him? Probably not. Still, Young has to play to provide experience in our starting 11 and keep the balance in our team. Solskjær understands this, this is why he is the manager, while we are putting angry posts on a forum.

Great post and spot on - all those saying Fred is behind every other midfielder and his failure to come on in the Liverpool game speaks volumes, it’s all about adapting and experience. I’ve been trying to say the above for a while but someone wrote it far better!

 

[Mr PG]

Fred showed he can take better care of the ball today I think Ole instructed him to. Overall kept it simple but made 2 excellent long passes. Quick feet, passing and a certain determination leads me to believe he will come good.

 

[cyril C]

I mean seriously we must be the only club that would pay £50m for a player then he can’t even make the first 11. Especially when the likes of Fellaini and McTominay are preferred options.

Why did we buy him if he isn’t good enough to come straight into the first 11? If he’s not settling quickly surely we should be assessing this stuff as part of the scouting?

This is part of the problem, we keep buying players that should improve the first 11 but almost immediately revert back to players who haven’t been up to the mark, hence why we are trying to replace them.

The same thing happened with Mkhitaryan, Bailly and Lindelof.

On the 1st day there was Torres. On day 2 there was Shevchenko, on day 3 there was Carroll and Crouch..... As recently as this season there was Keita.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Some of his passing and positioning was good. Needs to be a bit sharper though, if I'm being honest.

 

[Tony247]

Fred was very conservative last night. He could have done better since Ole made his best player to play out of position to accommodate Fred.

He lacked offensive passes but he tracked back and did his defensive duty.

In comparison McT was much more composed and full of control.

 

[The Boy]

Quite an average game. Lots of energy but his passing is bad.

Interesting perception

Passing stats from the game:

Lindeloff 1 key passes / 62 passes / 91.9% passing accuracy
Smalling 0 key passes / 50 passes/ 90% passing accuracy
Rashford 0 key passes / 8 passes / 87.5% passing accuracy
Fred 2 key passes / 58 passes / 84.5 passing accuracy
Scott M 0 key passes / 55 passes / 83.6% passing accuracy

That's the top 5 from the team in terms of accuracy, given that Rashford doesn't really count here (came on late hardly any passes) that makes Fred 3rd. Lindeloff was the only person in the team to pass more. Pogba Shaw and Dalot all had 2 key passes as well, no one had more than 2.

What worrying is DDG's passing accuracy was 48% lowest by a mile - too many long balls?

 

[RedRonaldo]

Interesting perception

Passing stats from the game:

Lindeloff 1 key passes / 62 passes / 91.9% passing accuracy
Smalling 0 key passes / 50 passes/ 90% passing accuracy
Rashford 0 key passes / 8 passes / 87.5% passing accuracy
Fred 2 key passes / 58 passes / 84.5 passing accuracy
Scott M 0 key passes / 55 passes / 83.6% passing accuracy

That's the top 5 from the team in terms of accuracy, given that Rashford doesn't really count here (came on late hardly any passes) that makes Fred 3rd. Lindeloff was the only person in the team to pass more. Pogba Shaw and Dalot all had 2 key passes as well, no one had more than 2.

What worrying is DDG's passing accuracy was 48% lowest by a mile - too many long balls?

CB always has the highest passing accuracy, followed by defensive midfielder, as majority of their pass are easy, side-ways, without pressure, in their own half.

 

[manunited1919]

Interesting perception

Passing stats from the game:

Lindeloff 1 key passes / 62 passes / 91.9% passing accuracy
Smalling 0 key passes / 50 passes/ 90% passing accuracy
Rashford 0 key passes / 8 passes / 87.5% passing accuracy
Fred 2 key passes / 58 passes / 84.5 passing accuracy
Scott M 0 key passes / 55 passes / 83.6% passing accuracy

That's the top 5 from the team in terms of accuracy, given that Rashford doesn't really count here (came on late hardly any passes) that makes Fred 3rd. Lindeloff was the only person in the team to pass more. Pogba Shaw and Dalot all had 2 key passes as well, no one had more than 2.

What worrying is DDG's passing accuracy was 48% lowest by a mile - too many long balls?

That’s surprising. It would be interesting to see comparison of the % sideways and backwards passes as well.

 

[Lj82]

Interesting perception

Passing stats from the game:

Lindeloff 1 key passes / 62 passes / 91.9% passing accuracy
Smalling 0 key passes / 50 passes/ 90% passing accuracy
Rashford 0 key passes / 8 passes / 87.5% passing accuracy
Fred 2 key passes / 58 passes / 84.5 passing accuracy
Scott M 0 key passes / 55 passes / 83.6% passing accuracy

That's the top 5 from the team in terms of accuracy, given that Rashford doesn't really count here (came on late hardly any passes) that makes Fred 3rd. Lindeloff was the only person in the team to pass more. Pogba Shaw and Dalot all had 2 key passes as well, no one had more than 2.

What worrying is DDG's passing accuracy was 48% lowest by a mile - too many long balls?

There was one moment when he just threw the ball to the opposition. Just a bad day for him.

 

[WR10]

What is he good at?
Winning the ball deep in the oppositions half exactly where they do not want to lose it. He’s done it multiple times and if he was more understood in the team we would have runners pushing up in anticipation of him winning the ball over and over again.
He has good stamina
When he’s not rusty he has good close ball control and can get himself out of trouble more often than not

What is he not good at?
Long range passing
Understanding his role in the team. His high pressing - as great as it is - does not flow naturally with the team and he doesn’t seem to have the intelligence to adapt it to the team around him. He ends up leaving massive gaps which is no good if you’re wanting to have two holding midfielders giving pogba freedom.
He still hasn’t shown the right mental RPM to function in the premier league. He seems to think everything runs a gear lower.
His decision making is poor. He forces the play too often. It’s not your job - give it to pogba.
His strength in aerial duels is poor. I understand he won’t be winning headers but you still have the ability to position yourself and use your body for max advantage. He is not doing that yet

Why has he not played?
If you’re not pogba and want to play in center midfield then you must be a sufficient holding midfielder with a cohesive discipline. Matic and Herrera out: we have Scott, James, Andreas and Fred. You can see that Fred edges it only over James for a starting position because of the role he has to fill. Scott plays the Matic role best and Andreas plays the Herrera role best. Fred doesn’t do either great.

Where do I see him going from here?
Best case scenario for him is that Herrera gets a long term injury and he can find himself in the team with a better defensive understanding and discipline. He has first protect the back 4 and then figure out a way to express his creative talents without compromising his priority in the team.

I can’t see him successfully doing that because I don’t think he naturally enjoys that role.

Unlucky for Fred. There is a solid player in there that needs a different system to use his abilities. He would have worked better in our system if we had better CBs which means less defensive duties for him - which I assume was mourinhos end picture with him. We all know what happened with that

 

[The Boy]

That’s surprising. It would be interesting to see comparison of the % sideways and backwards passes as well.

i

Don’t have that I’m afraid but there is this

Fred crosses 1 / acc crosses 1 / long ball 7 / acc long ball 5
Pogba crosses 0 / acc crosses 0 / long ball 5 / acc long ball 3
McT crosses 0 / acc crosses 0 / long ball 2 / acc long ball 2

DDG obviously 0 crosses / long ball 17 / acc long ball 5

 

[manunited1919]

i

Don’t have that I’m afraid but there is this

Fred crosses 1 / acc crosses 1 / long ball 7 / acc long ball 5
Pogba crosses 0 / acc crosses 0 / long ball 5 / acc long ball 3
McT crosses 0 / acc crosses 0 / long ball 2 / acc long ball 2

DDG obviously 0 crosses / long ball 17 / acc long ball 5

Stats certainly make him look better than I thought he was. If I have time I will try to rewatch the match over the weekend.

 

[sglowrider]

i

Don’t have that I’m afraid but there is this

Fred crosses 1 / acc crosses 1 / long ball 7 / acc long ball 5
Pogba crosses 0 / acc crosses 0 / long ball 5 / acc long ball 3
McT crosses 0 / acc crosses 0 / long ball 2 / acc long ball 2

DDG obviously 0 crosses / long ball 17 / acc long ball 5

Championship player!

 

[ErranMorad]

I caught the second half of the game yesterday and found his performance pretty good. Couldn't fault his work-rate, the passing was decent & he performed his defensive duties well. I hope he starts the next game too. He would only get better. He can be an asset against PSG in the Pogba free role.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I caught the second half of the game yesterday and found his performance pretty good. Couldn't fault his work-rate, the passing was decent & he performed his defensive duties well. I hope he starts the next game too. He would only get better. He can be an asset against PSG in the Pogba free role.

Thank god you didn't read the matchday thread then. The negativity around him Sanchez and Young was mind boggling

 

[kentafuji]

Thank god you didn't read the matchday thread then. The negativity around him Sanchez and Young was mind boggling

Its the match day thread though
If you dont play like Messi every second of the game, then you are absolutely shite by default.

Thought Fred did alright the second half too. Not as bad as he was made out to be in the match day thread, but then no one ever is.

 

[Lentwood]

I thought Fred was absolutely abysmal in the first half, looked slow, ponderous, misplaced several passes, tried the difficult option every time and took too long to get the ball out of his feet

Second half I thought he improved markedly. Although I am still a little unsure about his defensive capabilities, his passing was much sharper and he moved the ball much more quickly and passed forwards. I think when he plays little give-and-go's in the midfield area he looks useful.

I think there are a couple of things that need to happen if he is going to make it at United;

1. I think he needs to get into the gym and put some bulk on/work on his ground speed. Has the body-type to be a 'midfield terrier' when we don't have the ball but really isn't effective in his press or in the tackle at the moment. This can be worked on - Herrera has come on leaps and bounds as he has adapted to English football

2. Learn what he is good at, stop the cross-field Hollywood passes and work on moving the ball quickly through the midfield and playing off the forwards/wide-players

 

[Rajma]

He did very well in that second half and wasn't caught defensively. First half was poor but understandably so after being out for so long and not fully confident.

 

[Litch]

The forum at times can be like listening to the game on the radio and then watching it later. You wonder if it was the same game. The comments about his game on here and watching the game didn't really match up aside from first half looked nervous, second half was better. Hold on, not played for ages, taking time to settle, tough away game with half the out with injuries. The issue isn't always the players, it's us managing our expectations cause we think 50m must immediately negate context. The problem with all these players that come in like him or Dalot is it's often in crisis and your playing under an unusually set of circumstances. Hard to play your best football when your playing with people in a similar situation to you.

 

[Revan]

Pereira is currently a better option.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

He did very well in that second half and wasn't caught defensively. First half was poor but understandably so after being out for so long and not fully confident.

I only got to watch the second half due to issues with rivers and the game not being broadcast here and there were several moments where he was a defensive liability. Allowed opposition to just run past him (couldn't win the physical battle) and there was a cross which he tried to head away even though it was going towards Shaw who was better positioned to deal with it but Fred went for it anyway and missed which caused Shaw to miss it as well. If he was even worse in the first half then he had a poor game.

 

[PeteManic]

I thought he was alright. Still a terrible waste of money though.

 

[SecondFig]

The forum at times can be like listening to the game on the radio and then watching it later. You wonder if it was the same game. The comments about his game on here and watching the game didn't really match up aside from first half looked nervous, second half was better. Hold on, not played for ages, taking time to settle, tough away game with half the out with injuries. The issue isn't always the players, it's us managing our expectations cause we think 50m must immediately negate context. The problem with all these players that come in like him or Dalot is it's often in crisis and your playing under an unusually set of circumstances. Hard to play your best football when your playing with people in a similar situation to you.

Totally agree with this. He looked shaky to start, but thought he settled well after that. Besides, it's his first season at Utd, first season in the Premier League - and he's had Mourinho's shite to deal with for most of his time here. I'd want to see him given at least a year before we write him off.

 

[rotherham_red]

Have you lot not learned your lesson from Lindelof last season? Give the guy time, ffs...

 

[deadrevelz]

I caught the second half of the game yesterday and found his performance pretty good. Couldn't fault his work-rate, the passing was decent & he performed his defensive duties well. I hope he starts the next game too. He would only get better. He can be an asset against PSG in the Pogba free role.

He was poor at keeping possession, was pressed easily by the Palace players, I dread to think what would happen vs PSG.

 

[Josep Dowling]

On the 1st day there was Torres. On day 2 there was Shevchenko, on day 3 there was Carroll and Crouch..... As recently as this season there was Keita.

What's your point? I don't care what other clubs are doing. We are consistently buying expensive players that don't meet first team criteria. That has to change to challenge for the major trophies.

 

[acnumber9]

Have you lot not learned your lesson from Lindelof last season? Give the guy time, ffs...

No we learned it from players like Morgan Schnedierlin. One player coming good does not mean anything. Lindelof was still trusted more by his managers than Fred has been. Which tells as big a story as what we see on the pitch.

 

[Velvet Revolver]

The guy wants to do well and is positive but i think he is a little slower in terms of the pace of the game. In Shaktar he had lot of space to work his passes here he doesnt and it shows. I think he needs more time, the question is will we be patient and persist or replace him!

 

[Alek M]

It’s quite simple. He is a Latin player. Latin style is more flair and trying to make some killer passes but with the idea that you will get the ball back quickly and then try again. English footie is measured passes and maintain possession. Not in the dna of Latin players.

 

[RasTiaGba]

I'm pretty sure he's got good pace for a midfielder and decent technique, I hope he improves as he could give us an option against the Fulhams of the league.

He's an attacking midfielder IMO, so I wouldn't expect him to play amazing at same time Pogba is playing, I see him as a backup to Pogba almost

 

[MikeUpNorth]

It’s quite simple. He is a Latin player. Latin style is more flair and trying to make some killer passes but with the idea that you will get the ball back quickly and then try again. English footie is measured passes and maintain possession. Not in the dna of Latin players.

That's really not how I'd stereotypically define 'English football'.

 

[Roosney]

He had a good game on Wednesday I think, at first he looked a bit like playing in a dead rubber La Liga midtable clash but got better.

 

[Carl]

Unsurprisingly back on the bench today. Was awful by virtue of his anonymity against Palace.

 

[cyril C]

Fred assisted the 3rd goal, credit due.