Why did we buy Fred?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Josep Dowling, Oct 20, 2018.

  1. Apr 26, 2019

    Walters_19_MuFc Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,609
    Location:
    Birmingham
    At Shakhtar, he was the tempo setter in a 4231 next to an anchor man. As well as being the dictator, he had the dynamism to press well and win possession back.

    It seems that he likes to get on the ball, and wants to be the player to start our attacks, but he is very rash with his passing. Can't fault his effort and mentality because he doesn't hide, but he's not quite the passing midfielder we needed.

    I wouldn't get rid next season because I think instead of using him as a deeplying playmaker, we should use him as a ball winner. Like I said, although his passing is rash, he presses well and wins the ball back quite often.

    Obviously, this means we then need to have a deeplying playmaker next to him - someone who can set the tempo. Pjanic, Kroos, Verratti, Rakitic, etc.

    Not sure I would start him next season, and I think we need a minimum of two midfielders with Herrera possibly leaving, but he could remain a squad player and like Lindelof, we can only hope that he settles well next season.
  2. Apr 26, 2019

    The Irish Connection Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Messages:
    550
    In fairness to him, he has done well in the last couple of months, which is definitely better than a lost cause. Can be sloppy with his touch and passing at times though, hopefully he can cut that out.
  3. Apr 26, 2019

    bucky Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    8,130
    Has he though? He's been okay at best overall. I'm all for giving new players time, but what he's shown so far, even if he has improved recently is nowhere near good enough for a United player.
  4. Apr 26, 2019

    Amir Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2000
    Messages:
    22,173
    Location:
    Rehovot, Israel
    Ronaldo was 18 and RVN settled in right away. There are better examples like Evra, but to fair to Fred, it's awfully hard to look good when you play for United in the last few years.
  5. Apr 26, 2019

    Volumiza Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,279
    Location:
    Somewhere in the middle
    He’s improved loads. I see glimpses of his game that I really like so let’s hope he keeps on improving as he settles in more. Let’s face it, he’s come into a really unsettled team and chaotic environment in general.

    I still believe there’s a good player there.
  6. Apr 26, 2019

    gerdm07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,166
    I read that he was the most expensive midfielder during the summer transfer. If true, what is our front office doing?
  7. Apr 26, 2019

    edcunited1878 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2014
    Messages:
    3,634
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Good analysis. I too see his rashness and just seems too out of control, not tidy enough with the ball as the deepest midfielder. He'll lose the ball in bad positions every match and he'll have to cut that out when playing in a deep position. His biggest issue playing as a ball winner higher up the pitch is his awareness and discipline. He can't get too high and just leave the space behind him for the deep central mid when the right back is equal or ahead of him.
  8. Apr 26, 2019

    edcunited1878 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2014
    Messages:
    3,634
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    That's due to a bidding war, although I too have read that United didn't have to pay that much if they just stood their ground. His value isn't exactly reflective of his price sold at. His price is irrelevant now. If United are going to overspend on players, they should be ready made pretty much and seek players who have 1 year remaining on their contract (not sure if Fred did) to have some pushback on transfer terms.
  9. Apr 26, 2019

    minoo-utd New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Messages:
    8,164
    Location:
    Egypt.
    Not good enough. Simple. We need we deserve better. He loses easy balls his pass accuracy is awful maybe his work rate not that bad.
  10. Apr 27, 2019

    Celoti23-81 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2018
    Messages:
    396
    To be fair on Fred, it's only now Keita seems to have found his feet at Liverpool. And he also played in a similar league to the EPL in Germany.
  11. Jun 3, 2019

    IrishRedDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    5,966
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    Still hard to believe he cost over £50m. Let’s hope he really pushes on next season after taking some time to settle, as he is like the forgotten man.
  12. Jun 3, 2019

    fps Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1,728
    He has repeatedly cost United goals in key matches by giving the ball away, making poor decisions and being poorly positioned. It's not enough that he's a tryer, he isn't good enough.
  13. Jun 3, 2019

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    26,764
    50m. Just wince inducing.
    It's like City played us like kippers and feigned their interest to get us to storm in, thinking we were beating them to him.
  14. Jun 4, 2019

    ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg Full Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    2,794
    If we wanted to sell him, we would be lucky to get £10m. He’s shown nothing to suggest he’s a player worthy of a place in Utd’s squad. Compete waste of money, no idea why he was bought.
  15. Jun 4, 2019

    sunama Baghdad Bob

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    14,364
    I think the best thing to do here, would be to loan him to a lower level club, in the EPL, so that he gets lots of game time. If by the end of the season he still sucks, then it's time to cut our losses.
    if he does improve, then we can use him next season.
    He is not good enough to play for a top 4 team, though he is good enough for a team vying for top 10.
  16. Jun 4, 2019

    crossy1686 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,657
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    I keep forgetting about Fred, but then when I think about him he feels like a new signing that will come good.

    At least he’ll have to come good this season and at least we can play him instead of Matic.
  17. Jun 4, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    23,209
    Though he would be our Fernandinho.
  18. Jun 4, 2019

    Saf94 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Messages:
    687
    Our midfield is maybe the hardest midfield to perform in. We try to play attacking but there’s no creativity upfront and our defenders are poor. This means it’s all on the midfield to both provide all the spark going forward AND cover completely for the defence so they don’t get exposed at all.

    This is why all our midfielders seem shit except Herrera who seemed great because he had the work ethic and discipline to defend while still offering something going forward. It’s such a huge ask, if we got decent defenders and we pushed higher up Fred would be a lot lot better
  19. Jun 4, 2019

    oLeSoLsKjAeR20 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2014
    Messages:
    605
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    I feel like I've seen him pass to the opposition more times than I've seen him pass to a team mate. Not great that, is it? I always look at players and think to myself "Can I picture him holding the Premier League trophy (or any major trophy for that matter) aloft?" And boy do I have trouble doing that with him! Get rid
  20. Jun 4, 2019

    jem Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    6,246
    Location:
    Toronto
    It continues to astound me how quickly people have written this player off. I mean we have the perfect example of why this is misguided playing right behind him in the form of Lindelof.
  21. Jun 4, 2019

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    5,926
    Location:
    Between a rock and the Nou Camp
    when i think of our midfield for next season, I never factor Fred. I always think we need to keep Pogba and add 2 more starters so I guess he hasn't impressed me enough to be considered more than a back up option. I don't see how a midfield of Pogba/Fred/another would be enough as he doesn't stand out in anything
  22. Jun 4, 2019

    eltigreFalcao New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2018
    Messages:
    120
    Location:
    Buenos Aires
    Not great if every single fan go by what you feel you have seen. As for the second part of your post it's a bit delusional but could work, i'll try it myself.
  23. Jun 4, 2019

    Craig Ward Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2016
    Messages:
    1,177
    Very quick judgement to make after 1 season.

    Its difficult for any midfielder to stand out in our team. Our midfield is so disjointed and built entirely so Pogba can "be free". I don't think we use Fred the way he did when he looked so good at Shaktar, so he's never going to look as he did there.

    Do you share this assessment with Pogba/Matic/Periera? Cos I would say they have all played at a very average level and performance wise none of our midfielders have performed at a level we would like
  24. Jun 4, 2019

    bucky Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    8,130
    Please do tell what you saw at his former club that we should do that would get the best out of him. I never saw much of him, since I don't watch Ukrainian football. The clips I saw from his game against City looked like the player we've seen last season. Sloppy in possession, with an inconsistent touch and good moments of him as well. I am judging him on what I've seen so far and I want him to come good, but I am not sure he will. My main gripe is that we could have had Rodrigo and Fabian Ruiz for what Fred cost.

    As for the others, Pereira won't be a player that's ever going be to good enough to start for us regularly IMO. I was against signing Matic, but understood why Mourinho wanted him. I wanted us to sign his replacement last summer and since Herrera is gone, I still think we should be looking to sign somebody for that position. Pogba is one of the few players I'd be looking to keep, if it were up to me. He's not been as good last season, as I hoped he would be, but he's still better than most of what we have.
  25. Jun 4, 2019

    Nr.7 New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2017
    Messages:
    216
    Any quality midfielder would stand out.
    Midfields usually look shit when you have shit midfielders playing in it.

    I understand that sometimes a player can look poor cause he’s playing a role that doesn’t suit him, but I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t make a quality player forget how to control a fking ball and how to pass to a teammate.

    Fred has basic quality issues. I’m not really sure that if we played him in a role he had in Shaktar he’d suddenly look like a £52m player.
  26. Jun 4, 2019

    JoaquinJoaquin Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Messages:
    7,644
    That is just an absurd quote. He shown more than enough to show he is capable of playing for the club. You have to remember he came from the Ukranian league, which is a huge difference to the Premier League. If he is poor next year then fair enough, but he was good in the majority of the games he played this year so I wouldn't label him a flop. He wasn't helped by Ole's handling of him either, one game in and the next out of the team. He was getting no rhythm or continuity.
  27. Jun 4, 2019

    Bestietom Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    4,660
    Location:
    Ireland
    A brazilian who cannot control a ball. Only we, can find these players.
  28. Jun 4, 2019

    JB08 Searches for nude pics of Marcos Rojo

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    6,318
    Location:
    Bristol
    Supports:
    Purchasing Kalidou Koulibaly
    You’ve never changed your mind on a player after one their first season? How about Vidic, de Gea and Evra - could you see them ‘holding the premier league trophy’ after their first year?
  29. Jun 4, 2019

    Untd55 Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2018
    Messages:
    458
    Not sure why people are saying he continuously passes to the opposition. His pass completion is 86.5% - In comparison, David Silva is 87% so not a world of difference. (This is about the pass percentage for most of the best midfielders, so I am not sure how you can expect much higher).

    You also cannot say it is due to Fred passing sideways as he is constantly forward thinking. Passing is certainly not an issue with him so I am not sure why people are making it up that it is.

    Fred is a really good passer of the ball. I have no idea where people are getting it from that he is not.

    If Man City signed him, I think he would be absolute quality for them. Would fit them like a glove. Fred just does not fit this Manutd team at all.
  30. Jun 4, 2019

    andycolegangstainnit Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2015
    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    Leicester
    He's not a £50m player. However, he can pass the ball and - as he proved against PSG and Barca (certainly the home leg) - he can defend. his main problem is consistency and too many errors. If we moved him on we'd make an embarrassing loss so we have to keep him as a squad player. Pogba is good enough McTominay could be so we need at least two more midfielders. Ndombele & Fernandez would be a dream two to play with Pogba. Matic & Perreira have to go though
  31. Jun 4, 2019

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2002
    Messages:
    48,100
    Location:
    Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysa
    We had a similar thread on a Lindeloff about a season go.

    I haze zero problems with his signings. He literally hasn't been a problem at any point. He isn't the cause of our dead right flank, a lack of a lead center half with aerial capability, our lack of a second creative central midfielder, holding midfield alternative to Matic nor our misfiring forwards. I've been quite happy with him and I fully expect him to come into his own this coming season
  32. Jun 4, 2019

    Freak Born a freak always a freak.

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    18,637
    Location:
    Somewhere in your mind, touching a nerve
    He will come good. This was his first season and there was a fair bit of adapting to do.
  33. Jun 4, 2019

    Maticmaker Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Messages:
    1,116
    Yes, when we 'pinched' Sanchez and then Fred from City it was all smiles we thought we had 'done' them, but in truth thanks to us City dodged not one, but two bullets!
  34. Jun 4, 2019

    Craig Ward Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2016
    Messages:
    1,177
    Same logic for Fred can be used for Matic/Pogba/Periera then - not sure why fred is being singled out for criticism when all our players are guilty of not doing the basics.


    Matic and Pogba - our two best midfielders on times look like they've never played the game before. Same for Sanchez, Lukaku - I could go on. Fred is adapting to the prem while being in and out of the team, while being surrounded by lazy players with crap attitudes.
  35. Jun 4, 2019

    Chesterlestreet Man of the crowd

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2012
    Messages:
    14,545
    He's not a bad player.

    Might never amount to anything at United, but he's got qualities which makes it very understandable why he was sought after by others than us.

    He's looked nervous, uncomfortable to me in his more regrettable performances rather than out of his depth/shite.
  36. Jun 4, 2019

    shamans Hoser

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,362
    Location:
    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    He's got a pretty good engine on him. Just needs to find his rhythm and spot on the team and will flourish imo. There's a real player there
  37. Jun 4, 2019

    reddevil80 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2018
    Messages:
    277
    100% agree with this. He has to win the ball so often because he loses the ball that bloody often. He needs a good engine as he will keep chasing his misplaced passes game after game.
  38. Jun 4, 2019

    AllezLesDiables Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,748
    To be fair Fred would have much more support at City in terms of surrounding talent and system which would allow him to brought along slowly.
  39. Jun 4, 2019

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    26,764
    I think City got lucky with Sanchez, as they were clearly massively keen on him, and would have gone for him instead of Mahrez. Who himself has been a bit of a waste there.

    But Fred? It just doesn't seem likely that they were after him, as how would he have got near that team? I guess that's a bit of hindsight, and could say similar for Sanchez on performances!
  40. Jun 4, 2019

    Mastoness New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2019
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Croatia
    Honestly, I can't see him developing into a high level midfielder. I can't see any quality that he possess that could prove otherwise. His passing is nothing to write home about and his ball control is also unconvincing.