Why do commentators and pundits keep saying ‘at least we can see a plan/what he’s trying to do?’

[Rozay]

Can anyone see what it is? From what I gather, the theory is one thing, and the evidence doesn’t really support. Apparently the bottom line of Ole’s grand plan is to get the team to run more. Yet they still look like they are sleep walking to me.

I’m not sure if the ‘experts’ are trolling us at this point, but everyone seems to be talking about how visible this plan is. I’m all for (at this stage) seeing a plan and patterns that are only falling short due to the quality of the players. Then it would be obvious that with some upgrades, the passes, shots, dribbles etc would be better. But we haven’t even gotten that far.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

They are referring to his transfers in, transfers out strategy, forgetting how small of a part it is in what a manager actually does and supposed to do on a daily and weekly basis.
I don’t see any plan coaching-wise, it’s nothing but blind faith, very very few of them ever watched Ole’s Molde consistently, if at all.

He was a failure as a coach in Cardiff and he is failing as a coach here.

 

[shaky]

We're 2nd to City and ahead of Liverpool in the Xpoints league table right now if xG is your thing. That would indicate to me that whatever the plan is, it would certainly be delivering better results if we had players who can actually finish their chances.

 

[Overlook]

There’s a reason these pundits and commentators are pundits and commentators instead of coaches. And a lot of them are just defending this “process” because of their affection for Ole. You also have to remember that a lot of them aren’t watching United every week. They’re not getting a full picture of the malaise. Very few pundits can articulate their points well; they rarely offer valuable input on what a team can constructively do to achieve their goals. Jose working at Sky has shone a light on the limited knowledge of the guys he’s sitting beside.

 

[papayafc]

I agree, and it's really annoying. I think there are a few factors involved. Ole is likeable and does have some semblance of a transfer strategy (especially compared to previous years). This strategy speaks to some of the biases that these pundits hold -- a preference for British, hard working, and young players. Add to this, a number of these pundits clamoured for us to hire Ole prematurely after his winning run and probably don't want to be called out for their poor judgment.

 

[Vault Dweller]

We're 2nd to City and ahead of Liverpool in the Xpoints league table right now if xG is your thing. That would indicate to me that whatever the plan is, it would certainly be delivering better results if we had players who can actually finish their chances.

Too many players couldn't finish their dinner. It's appalling how bad our finishing is.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Can anyone see what it is? From what I gather, the theory is one thing, and the evidence doesn’t really support. Apparently the bottom line of Ole’s grand plan is to get the team to run more. Yet they still look like they are sleep walking to me.

I’m not sure if the ‘experts’ are trolling us at this point, but everyone seems to be talking about how visible this plan is. I’m all for (at this stage) seeing a plan and patterns that are only falling short due to the quality of the players. Then it would be obvious that with some upgrades, the passes, shots, dribbles etc would be better. But we haven’t even gotten that far.

Most of these pundits are long time, close friends of Solskjaer's, and / or club insiders.

They care more about the old-boy's network than they do the state of Utd.

Hence G.Nev's embarrassing switch from 'Woodward must go' etc, to 'hey guys, the running of the club isn't so bad' - when the only thing that changed was the appointment of Solksjaer.

I wouldn't take much of what they say seriously.

Carragher is obviously not a longtime, close friend of OGS, nor a Utd insider, and he has freely come out and stated the obvious that the club is being run awfully and Solksjaer isn't the man to turn it around.

 

[Sandikan]

The old school way was to build your team from the back. The logic being that you just needed to pinch a goal or two to win, whereas if they were leaky you'd need more.

But Klopp probably showed that's bunkum, and a much more exciting style of going for it, confident in how good your attackers are.
He improved the defence last.

Instead, we've gone into the season with what surely is our weakest attack in 25 years.
Would anyone argue any other year since was worse?

 

[Sandikan]

Most of these pundits are long time, close friends of Solskjaer's, and / or club insiders.

They care more about the old-boy's network than they do the state of Utd.

Hence G.Nev's embarrassing switch from 'Woodward must go' etc, to 'hey guys, the running of the club isn't so bad' - when the only thing that changed was the appointment of Solksjaer.

I wouldn't take much of what they say seriously.

Carragher is obviously not a longtime, close friend of OGS, nor a Utd insider, and he has freely come out and stated the obvious that the club is being run awfully and Solksjaer isn't the man to turn it around.

I always think it's very close to the end of a United manager's time, when someone like Carragher looks genuinely upset how sh!t we are.

 

[Gandalf]

I can see the plan but as indicated above, we don't have the players to make it work. There has been a ton of criticism of the 4-2-3-1 strategy here but as Bayern showed against Tottenham it can be lethal with the right personnel. I question Ole's commitment to a philosophy that he is several players short of being able to implement but maybe he is building muscle memory with the players who are part of the long term future so that once he signs the creative players that he has admitted he needs they can hit the ground running.

Lots of criticism of the fitness and running that Ole emphasized but the truth is that static players are being ruthlessly exposed by the likes of Klopp and Pep and that is why Mourinho's philosophy has become redundant in the modern game. Looking at the way we play, if we had a right wing capable of delivering decent crosses and a top class finisher we would look a hell of a lot closer to the finished article, hopefully January will provide what we need.

 

[romufc]

We're 2nd to City and ahead of Liverpool in the Xpoints league table right now if xG is your thing. That would indicate to me that whatever the plan is, it would certainly be delivering better results if we had players who can actually finish their chances.

Yes, lets scrap the current method of results and have a league table for xG and XPoints.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Most of the pundits are idiots and they are always pushing their own agenda, we all see that in media these days, anything can be twisted and portrayed as something else these days. If the pundits like the manager, they'd bend over backwards to make excuses for them, if not it will be the players.

 

[shaky]

Yes, lets scrap the current method of results and have a league table for xG and XPoints.

Seems a dumb idea to me, but whatever floats your boat.

 

[romufc]

Seems a dumb idea to me, but whatever floats your boat.

So why bring stats up of that in the first place? to make yourself better?

 

[Josep Dowling]

We're 2nd to City and ahead of Liverpool in the Xpoints league table right now if xG is your thing. That would indicate to me that whatever the plan is, it would certainly be delivering better results if we had players who can actually finish their chances.

Like all those shots on target against AZ?

 

[VP89]

There isn't a plan. Buying a right back and a centre back followed by a punt on the wing doesn't equate to a plan.

Literally anyone could have been manager and bought obvious targets. This idea that Ole has a plan is just garbage.

 

[shaky]

So why bring stats up of that in the first place? to make yourself better?

It was in response to the original question about whether we would look better with upgrades. Why make snidey remarks about other people's comments if you aren't even going to bother reading them in context of the thread they are in?

 

[romufc]

It was in response to the original question about whether we would look better with upgrades. Why make snidey remarks about other people's comments if you aren't even going to bother reading them in context of the thread they are in?

But we don't. How can you take a sample of 7 games where in 2 of them AWb has not played...

 

[shaky]

But we don't. How can you take a sample of 7 games where in 2 of them AWb has not played...

What has AWB got to do with any of this?? You've honestly completely lost me now.

 

[DoomSlayer]

There isn't a plan. Buying a right back and a centre back followed by a punt on the wing doesn't equate to a plan.

Literally anyone could have been manager and bought obvious targets. This idea that Ole has a plan is just garbage.

So why did Mourinho not bring the required players to make us better in 5 transfer windows, whilst spending £300-400 million, if anyone could have done it?

 

[red thru&thru]

So why did Mourinho not bring the required players to make us better in 5 transfer windows, whilst spending £300-400 million, if anyone could have done it?

Why do you believe Jose wanted work with a DoF?

 

[DoomSlayer]

Why do you believe Jose wanted work with a DoF?

He did? So what were the reports about him not wanting to have people over his head telling him how to play and what to buy? Why did he complain after getting sacked that "modern managers are just head coaches nowadays"?

 

[Eric7C]

Cause:
1) Ole has the perception of being harmless; nobody wants to stick the boot into a nice guy. Not even Roy Keane.
2) All his buddies in the media, like Neville.
3) The pundits don't know what a plan looks like - couldn't recognize it if it hit them square in the face.

 

[red thru&thru]

He did? So what were the reports about him not wanting to have people over his head telling him how to play and what to buy? Why did he complain after getting sacked that "modern managers are just head coaches nowadays"?

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/man-utd-news-jose-mourinho-16820350

Read this, it will answer all 3 of your questions.

 

[red thru&thru]

Cause:
1) Ole has the perception of being harmless; nobody wants to stick the boot into a nice guy. Not even Roy Keane.
2) All his buddies in the media, like Neville.
3) The pundits don't know what a plan looks like - couldn't recognize it if it hit them square in the face.

Which pundits are these? I'm guessing all of Ole's ex United pals.

All the other pundits are saying the same, Ed is the problem and MANCHESTER UNITED as a club have no plan.

 

[11101]

Too many players couldn't finish their dinner. It's appalling how bad our finishing is.

To finish would require taking shots, of which we have very few on the best of days*.


*excluding Rashford's regular efforts to knock out our spectators.

 

[Eric7C]

Which pundits are these? I'm guessing all of Ole's ex United pals.

All the other pundits are saying the same, Ed is the problem and MANCHESTER UNITED as a club have no plan.

Yup those, Neville, Keane, Scholes etc. The loudest pundits going anywhere.

Also, the question here is about whether Ole has a plan, not United. United don't. Ole doesn't either in terms of how to coach this team.

 

[DoomSlayer]

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/man-utd-news-jose-mourinho-16820350

Read this, it will answer all 3 of your questions.

I have no trust in Castles, but thanks for the read anyway, I hadn't seen this or maybe I just forgot. My original point towards the poster still stands because he claimed anyone could have done it, yet that's obviously not true.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Because they’re actively working against the club to keep Ole in place

 

[red thru&thru]

Yup those, Neville, Keane, Scholes etc. The loudest pundits going anywhere.

Also, the question here is about whether Ole has a plan, not United. United don't. Ole doesn't either in terms of how to coach this team.

To be fair, I think Ole has a plan. The problem is, well there's a combination of problems is that:

A) He's got an inept executive/owners in charge.
B) He's just not good enough of a coach/tactician to execute his own plan.

 

[red thru&thru]

I have no trust in Castles, but thanks for the read anyway, I hadn't seen this or maybe I just forgot. My original point towards the poster still stands because he claimed anyone could have done it, yet that's obviously not true.

I personally can believe the reports. At all his successful periods as a manager, he worked with/under DoF's or an equivalent role.

At United, it was the first real time he had to call all the shots, and he failed. You know this when he was talking about how he applauds the scouts of Westham finding Diop. Pretty scathing that.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

Honestly Ole might make a decent DoF as his signings seem good. The issue is that his actual coaching and the clubs inability/unwillingness to bring in more players in required positions are still holding us back.

 

[red thru&thru]

Honestly Ole might make a decent DoF as his signings seem good. The issue is that his actual coaching and the clubs inability/unwillingness to bring in more players in required positions are still holding us back.

This is why we're in a mess at the moment with Ole. His first few weeks, the owners thought, "Ole seems to have done a good job in these past few weeks. Let's give him the job!"

We need the correct experience and proven success in the various important roles at Manchester United. We can't be giving people trials, in such important roles, such as a manager/coach.

 

[Eric7C]

To be fair, I think Ole has a plan. The problem is, well there's a combination of problems is that:

A) He's got an inept executive/owners in charge.
B) He's just not good enough of a coach/tactician to execute his own plan.

Perhaps so, but is his plan so complicated? Does it not involve wingers staying wide, overlapping full-backs, playing players in their correct positions - especially Greenwood who he calls the best finisher, not employing two defensive midfielders against dross.. There seems to be absolutely zero coaching, which is what so many of us are finding perplexing.

 

[Eric7C]

Honestly Ole might make a decent DoF as his signings seem good. The issue is that his actual coaching and the clubs inability/unwillingness to bring in more players in required positions are still holding us back.

Even regarding the signings, Jose wanted Maguire in 2018, James was recommended by Giggs apparently and AWB was not exactly an entirely unknown entity. The DoF role ought to be as specialized as a manager's - especially at United - and Ole has no proven record of being good at either.

 

[red thru&thru]

Perhaps so, but is his plan so complicated? Does it not involve wingers staying wide, overlapping full-backs, playing players in their correct positions - especially Greenwood who he calls the best finisher, not employing two defensive midfielders against dross.. There seems to be absolutely zero coaching, which is what so many of us are finding perplexing.

Honestly agree with all your points. This is why I say he is also no tactician. I'm at a loss as why he just doesn't try something different.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, when Conte first took over at Chelsea, I believe he got a bit of a spanking from Arsenal. After that game, he changed from his previous games tactics and they went on to win the league.

Moral of the story being, you sometimes have to be flexible and change your tactics and not keep sticking to something which clearly is not working!

 

[red thru&thru]

Even regarding the signings, Jose wanted Maguire in 2018, James was recommended by Giggs apparently and AWB was not exactly an entirely unknown entity. The DoF role ought to be as specialized as a manager's - especially at United - and Ole has no proven record of being good at either.

This. Has to be guys like Zorc, Campos, Mitchell, Rangnick et al.

 

[Sandikan]

What has AWB got to do with any of this?? You've honestly completely lost me now.

I think he's basically meaning that we've played our first choice team about twice this season.
That never helps, let alone when a squad is so weak.

If we could put the first eleven out every game we'd be doing much better I'm sure
(not sure!)

 

[Inigo Montoya]

This. Has to be guys like Zorc, Campos, Mitchell, Rangnick et al.

Only Rangnick is a good candidate for DOF.

 

[passing-wind]

We're 2nd to City and ahead of Liverpool in the Xpoints league table right now if xG is your thing. That would indicate to me that whatever the plan is, it would certainly be delivering better results if we had players who can actually finish their chances.

Lovely forget the league table and winning 5 in 22, just ask UEFA if we can qualify for Europe through xG.