Why do commentators and pundits keep saying ‘at least we can see a plan/what he’s trying to do?’

red thru&thru

Full Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
7,657
Only Rangnick is a good candidate for DOF.
My dream set up would be, Edwin as CEO, Rangnick as DoF and Mitchell working alongside him

Heck, get some kind of dialogue open with Red Bull and get in Mitchell as DoF and Rangnick as consultant!
 

Maticmaker

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
4,618
It would seem to me that Ole still doesn't really know his players, despite the closeness he likes to project that he has with them. Ole has had some success, in that the first three buys he's made look to be good ones; however players like Rashford and Lingard seem to be going backwards under his management.

There is some improvement in the overall speed of the teams play, and at the start of games an attempt at pressing which for five minutes looks effective, but it varies during a game and for a period after we have conceded the apparent 'speed' becomes more akin to the demented running of headless chickens. Mason Greenwood looks to have the makings of a real predator goal scorer and impresses with the take up of positions inside the box, something Rashford for all his other attributes does not do! Ole is a long way yet off getting the team and the style of play he says he wants and its unlikely to come from transfers, because as of now Ole cannot be sure what his needs are.

Personally I think there is some-kind of training virus active at OT/Carrington that drains the energy and creativity out of the team, in fact the whole squad. Our current best three players are the three new ones, how long before they show signs of the training virus?
 

Eric7C

New Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
993
Honestly agree with all your points. This is why I say he is also no tactician. I'm at a loss as why he just doesn't try something different.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, when Conte first took over at Chelsea, I believe he got a bit of a spanking from Arsenal. After that game, he changed from his previous games tactics and they went on to win the league.

Moral of the story being, you sometimes have to be flexible and change your tactics and not keep sticking to something which clearly is not working!
Very true!

Two more additions to what is not working that Ole is doing nothing about (and it's doing my head in):
1. Rashford on freekicks.
2. Floating corners to Maguire at the far post.

For a team that is so bad at creating chances, we don't even try to capitalize on set pieces. It's unbelievable. It's inexcusable. It's Ole.
 

red thru&thru

Full Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
7,657
Very true!

Two more additions to what is not working that Ole is doing nothing about (and it's doing my head in):
1. Rashford on freekicks.
2. Floating corners to Maguire at the far post.


For a team that is so bad at creating chances, we don't even try to capitalize on set pieces. It's unbelievable. It's inexcusable. It's Ole.
Hahaha, so true.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
35,964
Location
Where the grass is greener.
I actually think the Maguire corner thing would work better if we had better attackers around him to make the most of his arieal threat, because our lads just don't have instincts to be in the right place, or fluff the chances anyway.
 

UnitedChampionsAgain

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
302
If there is a plan it's so well hidden no one can see it. All I can see is 11 strangers running around with no clue of what to do or when to do it. Jose never knew his best side or how to get the best out of them, Solskjaer is even worse if that's possible. If he thinks United fans are happy with these shambolic performances he needs his head examined
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Eric7C

New Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
993
I actually think the Maguire corner thing would work better if we had better attackers around him to make the most of his arieal threat, because our lads just don't have instincts to be in the right place, or fluff the chances anyway.
You're probably right. But it is clearly not working and what we are giving up instead is Maguire attacking those very corners - might have a much better chance of scoring himself.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
35,964
Location
Where the grass is greener.
You're probably right. But it is clearly not working and what we are giving up instead is Maguire attacking those very corners - might have a much better chance of scoring himself.
We should certainly mix it up, we've literally aimed at him for practically every corner and free kick that wasn't a Rashford shot.
 

hobbers

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
27,359
Commentators and pundits are usually either idiots (the Owens and Hoddles of the world) or have obvious agendas about defending the manager at all cost (ie Neville).
 

Roboc7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
6,562
Ole is the worst qualified manager we have had post SAF and that is what is being exposed.

He probably is trying to implement pressing and different ways of playing but simply doesn’t have the competence, there is a huge gulf between him and his peers. That’s not his fault and not much he can do about it.

He has some of the right ideas on terms of getting rid of players and giving some games to some of younger players but entrusting a long term project to him makes little sense.

We should stick to a longer term plan but we need better qualified people to implement it until that happens we won’t see evidence of improvement.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
31,123
So why did Mourinho not bring the required players to make us better in 5 transfer windows, whilst spending £300-400 million, if anyone could have done it?
He brought players that made a tangible improvement on the squad, and he brought in some duds. It's roughly what you'd expect when there's no DoF or footballing brain making decisions outside of Jose himself.

Problem was, even the better players he brought in arguably aren't long term fits (Lukaku And Pogba for different reasons). Again we'd expect that Mourinho because he was brought in to instantly propel us into the top 2/3 sides as a minimum.

Thing is, when Jose was sacked and we decided to go for a long term rebuild, we should have opted for a manager with a proven philosophy and better pedigree. Not Ole who actually has neither.
 

steve zizou

It's bigger than that, honest!
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
1,364
Location
Back 4
Where the feck is Paul Scholes these days? You couldn't get him off the TV with his constant bitching about sideways football during LvGs tenure.
 

Smores

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
25,496
Same as some posters in here, it's appearance and they think saying they see the plan makes them appear astute and an expert.
 

Regalia

Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
443
Ole is just your typical underperforming, incompetent colleague at the office that sucks at his/her job but is still around and nobody understands why.

He does not have a clue and it was clear even when the team was on a winning streak.
It was just the anti-Mourinho goons lapping it all up because it finally gave them something worth shouting about. Actually, this is still very much the case.
 

WR10

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
5,644
Location
Dream
Pretty simple. We’re atrocious in attack because we lack a working combination of flair, skill, decision making and quality. However we’re actually pretty good at chance limitation/defending.

The biggest reason is because Ole & co’s implementation of a high press line. Watch our games this season. Every single game we’ve taken the sting out of their build up play by just have 5/6 of our players strategically marking in the opposition half.

That has resorted teams to long balls to break our press or has demanded of them a high display of consistent skill to beat the high trap/press.

It’s actually quite good and reliable we’ve managed to implement it. You have to consider for something like that to work - you need full buy-in and motivation from the team. He’s got it.

We’re just so god damn hopeless in attack. Mostly because Ole and co banked on having a new striker. They didn’t get one. They banked on having a new central midfielder - they didn’t get one.


Having said all that - Ole and co take full responsibility for still not managing to address the injury problem. They went through a full tear down and build of the rehab medicine department and still can’t figure out how to maintain hamstrings and groins. As a physio myself, I think it’s mind boggling this happens with a club that has the resources it does. There’s just simply a dysfunctional chain of events happening within the department and coaching staff for it to be a perpetual problem. My guess would be a lack of a rehab leader that has both the a) influence to dictate standards between coaching and medical department and b) the actual evidence-based knowledge needed for load management in athletes.

Look at it this way - our style of play is decent. We defend very well. Our attacking team is bottlenecked by just pure quality. We are really shooting ourselves in the foot by having our best players injured most of the time. That’s the real problem right now.
 

Kemizee

New Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
649
Location
Lagos, Nigeria
There isn't a plan. Buying a right back and a centre back followed by a punt on the wing doesn't equate to a plan.

Literally anyone could have been manager and bought obvious targets. This idea that Ole has a plan is just garbage.
Seconded.
 

MisterLupus

New Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
505
Location
Bollocking about fluently.
What's the plan? Best way to determine how Ole's approached this so far is to see what's changed since last year I suppose.

Defense: Improved. Every time the opposition got hold of the ball last season I almost pissed my pants terrified of who would feck up and gift them a goal. No longer the case - we're as solid as you'd expect a top team to be.
Pressure: Improved. We're playing most our games on the opposition's side of the pitch unlike last year when we could hardly make it past the halfway line.
Fitness: Improved. Our players can now do a sprint without gasping for air the next five minutes.
Team cohesion: Improved. We can actually keep the ball even while pressing high - unlike last year where our players looked clueless both on and off the ball.
Results: Improved. Last seven games previous season saw us at five points - our first seven this season sees us at nine.
Attack:
Worse. We lack the quality to both create and to convert - despite dominating both possession and positioning we simply don't score. To be honest this is our only real concern right now even though it's a big one.

So... There's the "plan" - what's improved and what still needs improving. And it seems they're quite aware of the latter so my guess is we'll see them handle that come January. Stop the hysteria please - it's nuts reading some of the posts in here it honestly makes me believe there's something in the water causing some form of collective dementia.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,025
Location
...
Where the feck is Paul Scholes these days? You couldn't get him off the TV with his constant bitching about sideways football during LvGs tenure.
He’s since embarrassed himself in football management and has shut the feck up as a result (thankfully).
 

POF

Full Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
3,795
In fairness, you can tell what he's trying to do. He's trying to build a better culture at the club, clearing out those deemed "bad characters" and building that character around "United players" who have come through the academy and the club feels have been "brought up the right way".

As a style, he wants to play higher tempo football in attack with attackers who can play all across the front line, more pressing without the ball and a defence who can play out from the back.

Unfortunately, a rebuild like that will cost about £1bn as the club is utterly inept in the transfer market, so he's only been able to add 2 expensive defenders and a cut price winger, leaving the attack and midfield the weakest at the club in about 30 years.

So now, the team is completely dependent on a solid defence and pace on the counter attack or a bit of luck to break the opposition down. There are no goals in the team and they're set up to aim to win games by the odd goal. As a result, every mistake to gift a goal or penalty not given is a hammer blow.

One attacking player (Martial/Rashford) hitting a red hot streak of form would make a huge difference to this team and would turn frustrating draws into wins. That would greatly change the perception of what Ole is trying to do. But when 2 of your front 4 come from Pereira, Mata and Lingard every game, you're fighting an uphill battle.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,533
Most pundits are British former players. They came in an era when the EPL wasn't rich enough to threaten their shot for a first team place but lived their entire career shitting in their pants at the danger of some Johnny foreigner coming in and ruining them. Take Gaz as an example. If Zanetti joined us then the guy would have been kicked on the bench as fast as lingard would if Jadon signed for us

So they love a manager who prefers spending silly money on locals then sign foreigners. Id expect the lot to stick to Ole unless he relegates us
 

arnie_ni

Full Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
15,095
I agree with his transfer policy. He's shipping guys out that just arent good enough. He could have done with about 5 more out the door but you cant deplete the squad to much.

Im going to assume his hands are slightly tied in regards to transfers in so far. We desperately need a striker, rw, 2 cm/10, another cb and left back to push shaw, to round out or squad.

On the pitch however, i see no plan whatsoever
 

Seb burrow

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
74
I agree with his transfer policy. He's shipping guys out that just arent good enough. He could have done with about 5 more out the door but you cant deplete the squad to much.

Im going to assume his hands are slightly tied in regards to transfers in so far. We desperately need a striker, rw, 2 cm/10, another cb and left back to push shaw, to round out or squad.

On the pitch however, i see no plan whatsoever
This is pretty spot on. But we have atleast 7 CBs I think we could have easily shipped out one more. (8 of you include Smalling)

The issue we have is Smalling and Sanchez are likely to return so in effect we’re almost back to square one.

We need to start being more ruthless just get rid of the deadwood at all cost. If not it’ll be effecting the players we want to keep, as they may want to leave too.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,025
Location
...
In fairness, you can tell what he's trying to do. He's trying to build a better culture at the club, clearing out those deemed "bad characters" and building that character around "United players" who have come through the academy and the club feels have been "brought up the right way".

As a style, he wants to play higher tempo football in attack with attackers who can play all across the front line, more pressing without the ball and a defence who can play out from the back.

Unfortunately, a rebuild like that will cost about £1bn as the club is utterly inept in the transfer market, so he's only been able to add 2 expensive defenders and a cut price winger, leaving the attack and midfield the weakest at the club in about 30 years.

So now, the team is completely dependent on a solid defence and pace on the counter attack or a bit of luck to break the opposition down. There are no goals in the team and they're set up to aim to win games by the odd goal. As a result, every mistake to gift a goal or penalty not given is a hammer blow.

One attacking player (Martial/Rashford) hitting a red hot streak of form would make a huge difference to this team and would turn frustrating draws into wins. That would greatly change the perception of what Ole is trying to do. But when 2 of your front 4 come from Pereira, Mata and Lingard every game, you're fighting an uphill battle.
He wants to play out from the back and also high tempo in attack, yet the #1 RB he identified was Wan Bissaka. Perhaps this is because he decided he was limited to a list of about 3 English RBs who were good enough to play for us, but that’s his fault.
 

Forevergiggs1

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Messages
3,443
Location
Barcelona
Supports
United
What's the plan? Best way to determine how Ole's approached this so far is to see what's changed since last year I suppose.

Defense: Improved. Every time the opposition got hold of the ball last season I almost pissed my pants terrified of who would feck up and gift them a goal. No longer the case - we're as solid as you'd expect a top team to be.
Pressure: Improved. We're playing most our games on the opposition's side of the pitch unlike last year when we could hardly make it past the halfway line.
Fitness: Improved. Our players can now do a sprint without gasping for air the next five minutes.
Team cohesion: Improved. We can actually keep the ball even while pressing high - unlike last year where our players looked clueless both on and off the ball.
Results: Improved. Last seven games previous season saw us at five points - our first seven this season sees us at nine.
Attack: Worse. We lack the quality to both create and to convert - despite dominating both possession and positioning we simply don't score. To be honest this is our only real concern right now even though it's a big one.

So... There's the "plan" - what's improved and what still needs improving. And it seems they're quite aware of the latter so my guess is we'll see them handle that come January. Stop the hysteria please - it's nuts reading some of the posts in here it honestly makes me believe there's something in the water causing some form of collective dementia.
You're really clutching at straws with this one. It's true we've improved our defence for £130m but I wouldn't call us solid. We haven't conceded many goals basically beacuase De Gea is starting to find his form again.

If you call pressure running around like headless chickens then yeah, I agree with you. We've improved. Rochdale was a perfect example. They were absolutely terrible in bringing the ball out from the back but even a first division team didn't seem that fased about our pressure.

To be honest I don't see our fitness as significantly improved, maybe because Lukaku has gone. 2 of our new signings can run all day, McT, Fred, Rashford and Lingard have always had good fitness levels. We're never going to see a difference with Matic.Mata has always been lively even if he is slow. Pogba is his usual stroll round the park self. If anything it's the youngsters struggling more than anyone. Against Astana Gomes and Chong were absolutely knackered round the 55 minute mark.

If you see team cohesion then we're definitely watching different games. They still look like 11 strangers playing with each other. I'd really like to know examples on our team cohesion because I don't see it.

With our results you're just trying to look for positives when there's none there. You forgot to mention that in our last 7 games last season we played Chelsea and City. We wouldn't of won against last years Chelsea in our first game. Best we could of hoped for would have been a draw and City would of took us apart so by your own reckoning we'd now be in the relegation zone.

I think most of us can say Oles plan isn't working.
 

POF

Full Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
3,795
He wants to play out from the back and also high tempo in attack, yet the #1 RB he identified was Wan Bissaka. Perhaps this is because he decided he was limited to a list of about 3 English RBs who were good enough to play for us, but that’s his fault.
The recruitment at the club has been abysmal and haphazard since Fergie left. Is it definitely just Ole's fault?
 

OrcaFat

Full Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,657
What's the plan? Best way to determine how Ole's approached this so far is to see what's changed since last year I suppose.

Defense: Improved. Every time the opposition got hold of the ball last season I almost pissed my pants terrified of who would feck up and gift them a goal. No longer the case - we're as solid as you'd expect a top team to be.
Pressure: Improved. We're playing most our games on the opposition's side of the pitch unlike last year when we could hardly make it past the halfway line.
Fitness: Improved. Our players can now do a sprint without gasping for air the next five minutes.
Team cohesion: Improved. We can actually keep the ball even while pressing high - unlike last year where our players looked clueless both on and off the ball.
Results: Improved. Last seven games previous season saw us at five points - our first seven this season sees us at nine.
Attack: Worse. We lack the quality to both create and to convert - despite dominating both possession and positioning we simply don't score. To be honest this is our only real concern right now even though it's a big one.

So... There's the "plan" - what's improved and what still needs improving. And it seems they're quite aware of the latter so my guess is we'll see them handle that come January. Stop the hysteria please - it's nuts reading some of the posts in here it honestly makes me believe there's something in the water causing some form of collective dementia.
MisterLupus, that is 100% correct and very clearly put. I’m not sure how anyone can argue with that (but I am sure there will be a thousand posts saying “yeah but Ole is a terrible coach and everything is his fault”).
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,533
This is pretty spot on. But we have atleast 7 CBs I think we could have easily shipped out one more. (8 of you include Smalling)

The issue we have is Smalling and Sanchez are likely to return so in effect we’re almost back to square one.

We need to start being more ruthless just get rid of the deadwood at all cost. If not it’ll be effecting the players we want to keep, as they may want to leave too.
Herrera, Smalling and Lukaku weren't deadwood. 2 of them would easily walk in this team. Since Sanchez is on loan then Ole was able to get rid of Valencia and Darmian. Meanwhile mata, Jones and jesse were given long term contracts
 

momo83

Massive Snowflake
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Messages
1,463
They are referring to his transfers in, transfers out strategy, forgetting how small of a part it is in what a manager actually does and supposed to do on a daily and weekly basis.
I don’t see any plan coaching-wise, it’s nothing but blind faith, very very few of them ever watched Ole’s Molde consistently, if at all.

He was a failure as a coach in Cardiff and he is failing as a coach here.
They don’t forget, they know transfers are a small % of being a successful manager. Most of the commentators / pundits are his friend or friends of his friends. If this was Allegri or any other manager that they had no attachment to they be signing a very different song.

Most of the journalists were calling for him to be made permanent manager after 10 games, look at their twitter pages now and the very same ones don’t even comment after United games. So for them they can’t really turn around say he’s crap, they fear getting called out, and most don’t have the integrity to admit that they were wrong.
 

OrcaFat

Full Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,657
You're really clutching at straws with this one. It's true we've improved our defence for £130m but I wouldn't call us solid. We haven't conceded many goals basically beacuase De Gea is starting to find his form again.

If you call pressure running around like headless chickens then yeah, I agree with you. We've improved. Rochdale was a perfect example. They were absolutely terrible in bringing the ball out from the back but even a first division team didn't seem that fased about our pressure.

To be honest I don't see our fitness as significantly improved, maybe because Lukaku has gone. 2 of our new signings can run all day, McT, Fred, Rashford and Lingard have always had good fitness levels. We're never going to see a difference with Matic.Mata has always been lively even if he is slow. Pogba is his usual stroll round the park self. If anything it's the youngsters struggling more than anyone. Against Astana Gomes and Chong were absolutely knackered round the 55 minute mark.

If you see team cohesion then we're definitely watching different games. They still look like 11 strangers playing with each other. I'd really like to know examples on our team cohesion because I don't see it.

With our results you're just trying to look for positives when there's none there. You forgot to mention that in our last 7 games last season we played Chelsea and City. We wouldn't of won against last years Chelsea in our first game. Best we could of hoped for would have been a draw and City would of took us apart so by your own reckoning we'd now be in the relegation zone.

I think most of us can say Oles plan isn't working.
Ha! I just posted that I couldn’t see how anyone could argue with MisterLupus but I was wrong. Turns out it is possible to just deny everything.

Most people I know can see plenty of positives and agree that the main problem is poor productivity in the final third. It’s frustrating and sometimes infuriating but the general improvement is obvious to me.

It sounds like a cop out for me to say we could or should have won a few more games but it’s true and we probably should be 2nd or 3rd. Would people still be saying there’s no plan? The only difference would be that we scored a couple of pens and converted a couple of sitters, wouldn’t it?

So “no plan” really means “not enough points”. And the real reason for the lack of points is crap finishing. I say again, MisterLupus has it right.
 

Buster15

Go on Didier
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
13,305
Location
Bristol
Supports
Bristol Rovers
We should all know that commentators and pundits very often talk rubbish.
They like Ole because he doesn't give them a hard time. So they say nice things about him.
His strategy for buying players seems sound to me.
But his football tactics are pretty non-existent.
 

Darlington Padgett

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 9, 2017
Messages
1,208
You're really clutching at straws with this one. It's true we've improved our defence for £130m but I wouldn't call us solid. We haven't conceded many goals basically beacuase De Gea is starting to find his form again.

If you call pressure running around like headless chickens then yeah, I agree with you. We've improved. Rochdale was a perfect example. They were absolutely terrible in bringing the ball out from the back but even a first division team didn't seem that fased about our pressure.

To be honest I don't see our fitness as significantly improved, maybe because Lukaku has gone. 2 of our new signings can run all day, McT, Fred, Rashford and Lingard have always had good fitness levels. We're never going to see a difference with Matic.Mata has always been lively even if he is slow. Pogba is his usual stroll round the park self. If anything it's the youngsters struggling more than anyone. Against Astana Gomes and Chong were absolutely knackered round the 55 minute mark.

If you see team cohesion then we're definitely watching different games. They still look like 11 strangers playing with each other. I'd really like to know examples on our team cohesion because I don't see it.

With our results you're just trying to look for positives when there's none there. You forgot to mention that in our last 7 games last season we played Chelsea and City. We wouldn't of won against last years Chelsea in our first game. Best we could of hoped for would have been a draw and City would of took us apart so by your own reckoning we'd now be in the relegation zone.

I think most of us can say Oles plan isn't working.
I agree with you, we can see a plan but he lacks the execution. You can see where he wants to take us but he doesn't have what it takes. Its clear that he's way out of his depth and the team is so badly coached.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,025
Location
...
We should all know that commentators and pundits very often talk rubbish.
They like Ole because he doesn't give them a hard time. So they say nice things about him.
His strategy for buying players seems sound to me.
But his football tactics are pretty non-existent.
His strategy for buying players doesn’t seem that sound to me. He’s trying to turn us into some sort of British Bilbao for a start, at least as far as things look.
 

friendlytramp

More full of crap than a curry house toilet
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
4,033
Location
J Stand
We’re playing ok considering how thin the squad is. We needed to clear out and the rebuild will take time have some patience.
 

Buster15

Go on Didier
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
13,305
Location
Bristol
Supports
Bristol Rovers
His strategy for buying players doesn’t seem that sound to me. He’s trying to turn us into some sort of British Bilbao for a start, at least as far as things look.
I was more referring to the good impact that the three of them have made suggesting that they were signed with an understanding of how they would fit into the team.
 

Alemar

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
7,528
There is no plan. Our manager is simply an idiot - no one else would have ever played current Lingard, Matic, Mata or Young considering how dire they are
 

shaun layton

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
131
Location
Rossendale
You're really clutching at straws with this one. It's true we've improved our defence for £130m but I wouldn't call us solid. We haven't conceded many goals basically beacuase De Gea is starting to find his form again.

If you call pressure running around like headless chickens then yeah, I agree with you. We've improved. Rochdale was a perfect example. They were absolutely terrible in bringing the ball out from the back but even a first division team didn't seem that fased about our pressure.

To be honest I don't see our fitness as significantly improved, maybe because Lukaku has gone. 2 of our new signings can run all day, McT, Fred, Rashford and Lingard have always had good fitness levels. We're never going to see a difference with Matic.Mata has always been lively even if he is slow. Pogba is his usual stroll round the park self. If anything it's the youngsters struggling more than anyone. Against Astana Gomes and Chong were absolutely knackered round the 55 minute mark.

If you see team cohesion then we're definitely watching different games. They still look like 11 strangers playing with each other. I'd really like to know examples on our team cohesion because I don't see it.

With our results you're just trying to look for positives when there's none there. You forgot to mention that in our last 7 games last season we played Chelsea and City. We wouldn't of won against last years Chelsea in our first game. Best we could of hoped for would have been a draw and City would of took us apart so by your own reckoning we'd now be in the relegation zone.

I think most of us can say Oles plan isn't working.

I couldn't agree more, how 11 professional players can look so clueless when forming an attack baffles me. what are they doing in training? id love to watch and compare klopps sessions compared to Ole's