Why do FIFA and UEFA turn a blind eye to the behaviour of Italian clubs and supporters?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Fortitude, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. Nov 8, 2019
    #1

    Fortitude TV/Monitor Expert Scout

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    The abhorrent racism that is enmeshed and tightly knit throughout clubs in that league would be bad enough, but this:
    Third Celtic fan stabbed in Rome after win over Lazio

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50341574

    Is pretty much the norm there, too. If the combination of the above were to happen in England with the frequency it does in Italy, we'd be facing another continental ban plus sanctions with none of this kumbayya shite that leads to the square root of feck all year after year. The Eastern Europeans are called out for the savagery and, as close to universally condemned as football has managed in recent times, but Italy? On a literal weekly basis, incidents happen there, which make the recent, highlighted behaviour by the Bulgarians in the international game, look tame. Furthermore, Bulgaria sacked the manager who denied anything untoward was happening amongst their supporters - Italy? Entire towns and rival supporters band together to blame the victims, all of this under the watchful eye of the two aforementioned governing bodies.

    As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been a single proper sanction or condemnation put forth regarding the ongoing wild west of Italy where you even get guides on the likelihood of being stabbed in the arse (Rome) than there is actions put in place to eradicate this behaviour.

    It's not so much that Italy fly under the radar - akin to a superpower in the real world who just gets a tut and left to their own devices, Italy and Italian football are just given carte blanche to carry on, as is tradition. How? Why?

    What will it actually take to bring Italy in line and have them conduct themselves in the manner every other big league does? And how has society there allowed thugs such an entrenched footing? Even at its worst in England, hooliganism and what have you was seen as reprehensible by the masses at large and the government had been scheming on ways to disseminate the hordes. In Italy? Is there any such condemnation, and if there isn't, why is that? The impression given is that being an Ultra is a right old laugh: you get to be racist, violent and live out fantasies with impunity - you're even praised for it by your mayor... what, if anything, is in place to act as a deterrent if society at large, as well as the powers that be, really appear to complicit in harbouring, and indeed, nurturing generation after generation of these morons?
  2. Nov 8, 2019
    #2

    Kostur Full Member

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    Money.
  3. Nov 8, 2019
    #3

    Raj70 New Member

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  4. Nov 8, 2019
    #4

    Samid follows Pogue around, fixing his images

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    If something doesn't fill your pockets it's not worth wasting time on.
  5. Nov 8, 2019
    #5

    Fortitude TV/Monitor Expert Scout

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    In what way?

    I'm almost certain that the biggest money maker that there is in club football (PL) would be come down upon in the same way as the 80's had they/we carried on like the current Italy do. And that would be a financially devastating move for them to make, but one I'm sure they still would, so why, with a league that generates [far] less revenue, do they allow them to carry on the status quo year in, year out?

    Unless you're talking about under the table greasing of palms?
  6. Nov 8, 2019
    #6

    DBT85 Full Member

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    Because they aren't taking the problem seriously and nor does the country.
  7. Nov 8, 2019
    #7

    Lynty Full Member

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    The resurgence of far right political parties and media outlets has validated racist ideology. It's not a football problem. It's a cultural problem and it's not being dealt with correctly across the board.
  8. Nov 8, 2019
    #8

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian Scout

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    Right, and this means that governments can claim it's a football problem & football authorities can claim it's a societal problem; and so both parties can, and do, wash their hands of it & pass the buck.
  9. Nov 8, 2019
    #9

    Lynty Full Member

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    That's how I see it.

    Nobody really wants to combat it, because it's too hard. It's easier to promote Kick It Out as an act of support, like Boris Johnson taking photos with NHS staff.
  10. Nov 8, 2019
    #10

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

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    If I'm not mistaken English football only got punished when people died at a venue in a competition organized by the UEFA. Before that you were in the same situation than Italy are now. The main reason for that is that the UEFA and the FIFA aren't all powerful entities they can't actually sanction whoever they want however they want.
  11. Nov 8, 2019
    #11

    momo83 Full Member

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    I think when the problem is too big they just bury their heads in the sand.

    In the U.K. it’s likely that if we ever have something similar to the shit in Serie A, they could make an example out of that one club and its fans. But in Italy where do you begin?
  12. Nov 8, 2019
    #12

    RoyH1 Full Member

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    This in a nutshell. It just gets brushed off like it was normal every day criminality.
  13. Nov 8, 2019
    #13

    do.ob Full Member

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    One answer would be that what happens daily in domestic leagues isn't part of UEFA's and FIFA's jurisdiction. And how can you punish Lazio for what their fans do in pubs? The clubs hold no authority outside their own stadium, they can't police the city of Rome. Even their ultimate punishment, a stadium ban, doesn't help a bit against this.
  14. Nov 8, 2019
    #14

    giorno Full Member

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    Actually both talk about it being unacceptable and doing everything they can working together to fight it and then do they do nothing

  15. Nov 8, 2019
    #15

    giorno Full Member

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    No it doesn't. They make a big deal of it in public

    They just don't actually do anything about it beyond talking in platitudes
  16. Nov 8, 2019
    #16

    do.ob Full Member

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    https://www.google.com/search?q=tottenham hissing
  17. Nov 8, 2019
    #17

    momo83 Full Member

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    Exactly, it’s isolated incidents so once the perps are identified the FA can act and act hardly to set an example. If there was anti-semitic chanting across every ground then it would be much more difficult to “set an example”
  18. Nov 8, 2019
    #18

    tenpoless Full Member

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    If the country doesn't even try to campaign against it (or care about it), what can external organizations do?

    Let's say UEFA and FIFA act on it on the football field, that won't stop the players from getting the same abuse off the pitch. It goes beyond football, it is a cultural thing and Italy needs to act on it first and foremost. Sports can only help to elevate and publicy it.
  19. Nov 8, 2019
    #19

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    To be fair if you stab someone it's in the hand of the police. You kill someone and got a stadium ban for it sounds incredibly weird.

    If anything the its the police that should find the perp and throw him the book. FIFA is a sports entity and not a lae enforcement agency
  20. Nov 8, 2019
    #20

    0le Full Member

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    Why is it more difficult? We have already had stadium bans. The next thing is to prolong the stadium bans. Then docking points. It really is as simple as that. The regularity and widespread issues suggests to me that there should also be sanctions on the international team as well.

    These are both very weak arguments. It may or may not be a societal issue. But it is clearly an issue in football and should be dealt with, just as other countries are trying to deal with it.
  21. Nov 8, 2019
    #21

    Kostur Full Member

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    It's both really.

    They also just don't want attack a league from which they can get money. Any sort of attack on it would also affect their NT I presume. There's much more money on the table (and under it) than it the 80s unfortunately. Ultimately it will be like with Qatar and their WC. Everybody's well aware of a fecking shithouse that this 'event' will be but there's no stopping it. With racism in Italy (or for that matter, anywhere in the world), they've always got their 'hey, we've got the say no to racism campaign so we're proactive and doing our utmost' bullshit.
  22. Nov 8, 2019
    #22

    momo83 Full Member

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    Easier to close one stadium, then to close stadiums across the entire league. At the end money does come into it.
  23. Nov 9, 2019
    #23

    Token Sheet Full Member

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    Having done quite a few Utd European aways over the years, I have to say Rome and probably Marseille are the 2 worst places to go to.

    Unfortunately match going away fans are so used to such treatment, it becomes part of the norm.

    Wrong to think that way but it's true.

    It makes it even more galling, when you appreciate how well travelling fans, are treated over here.

    Shout out to Germany, who like the UK (as far as I know) treat away fans the same dignified way as we do.
  24. Nov 9, 2019
    #24

    Im red2 Prophet of Doom

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    Kick all racist assholes out of football it does not matter where these idiots come from, they are a cancer to all football, and need to be iradicated.
  25. Nov 9, 2019
    #25

    Sterling Archer Full Member

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    It's a tough one. I have always found the chants about Park and dogs, Lukaku's big penis, all to be too racially charged for comfort. They are not quite celebrating differences; too many negative connotations. It's not even a matter of opinion - with the latter chant, Lukaku asked for it to stop and it didn't. So where's the line? Should Bernardo Silva be kicked out? What about Griezman, having gone blackface?

    It's a social problem. Football and sport are a great place to see various races and background come together but it hasn't done all that much. Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier but what does that mean? Cops still shooting unarmed black men, fans and pundits still calling them freaks and specimens that can earn them more and more fantasy points. But it hasn't changed the way they treat another human being in person. Voting Trump showed. Brexit shows. Polls showing honest disgust amongst voters with pretty much any woman presidential candidate. Aussie parliaments disgusting treatment of female leader. Racism,t sexism, it's all stillthere. Kicking racism outta football is just a tedious fruitless exercise.
  26. Nov 9, 2019
    #26

    Bepi Full Member

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    Ok this thread is more comprehensive than the other one, which possibly served me to depict the ongoing gist from within. That sad, clubs are not the police, FIGC won’t hijack its own congested schedule and politicians enjoy social unrest to score a point in tv debates. Who can put a brake to this madness then? UEFA imho, just threatening FIGC to ban Italy and Italian clubs in the case they do not clean the house. Italians love arguing until someone from the outside forces us to act, in that each party saving face. I want to see what happens in six to twelve months, after the country goes back to the polls and Salvini, with Meloni and the old godfather Berlusconi, gets the full powers he was asking for last Summer. An outcome that would make the entire Brexit mess appear a pale, aristocratic comedy.
  27. Nov 9, 2019
    #27

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    I agree. It's more PC these days but the divide is still there and probably going wider. They're just being covered by a big blanket of pc. Until someone with guts like donald fecking trump show them for what they really are
  28. Nov 9, 2019
    #28

    Tostao_80 New Member

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    Its tedious and fruitless if youre not received much racism in your life. You're speaking from a place of privilege and ignorance. Anyone who experiences racism on a daily basis wouod not have such a view. What should we do with racism in football? Just put up with it and do nothing?
  29. Nov 9, 2019
    #29

    Sterling Archer Full Member

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    It may be a different opinion than yours, doesn't justify an accusation of privilege and ignorance. Because you do not know me.

    I'd love to see folks stand against racism not just in football, but their regular lives as well. It's not an isolated act.
  30. Nov 10, 2019
    #30

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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