Why has nothing happened yet? | Things are now happening

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Dr Fink, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. Jun 10, 2019

    Smores Full Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    18,388
    People like to quote big figures whilst conveniently ignoring sales but in that period we've had nearly an entire squad to replenish ffs. It's been no where near enough and left us often resorting to 3rd or 4th choices.
  2. Jun 10, 2019

    the chameleon Full Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    491
    All your posts seem to defending Glazers and Woodward. For someone who claims to be a United fan, you have a very strong desire to defend the glazers family and Woodward.

    Are you employed by their PR and Reputation Management firm?
  3. Jun 10, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,538
    Sigh,
    I explained multiple times in this thread that I am not defending anyone but the club. I am not repeating why again. I just did it 10 minutes ago.
    I will ask you these two things and ask you to really consider it:
    i) Who do you want to replace the Glazers?
    ii) Do you think that there is any realistic option right now that is willing to pay what the Glazers would want except a) an risk management/investment fund via another LBO saddling the club with maybe 1-2bn in new debt; or b) an Arab state that wants to use United as a sportswashing instrument.
    Take a serious minute and consider this. If you can.
  4. Jun 10, 2019

    Rhyme Animal Modmins said "freeze" and I got numb

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2015
    Messages:
    4,510
    Location:
    Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
    No worries.
  5. Jun 10, 2019

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Messages:
    14,681
    Location:
    Player Performance Threads
    The issue with buying 5 or 6 players constantly is half of them won't cut it and you'll keep seeing "We need a Rebuild" threads here. Even if it's gradual I'd like to know for sure that we are going in the right direction.
  6. Jun 10, 2019

    Kidders Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    1,280
    Location:
    1 Hour 40 Minutes away
    Apart from being an underwhelming team, Manolas ? Bergwin ? Rashford leading the attack and a crock (Bale) on the wing with Jamés auditioning as the new Mata, your sums don't add up mate, Oblak would cost £100m, PSG will suddenly slap an extra £10m on Meunier, Manolas would be around £45m but no better than we have, Monaco & Lyon would want a ' United premium' so add another £20m - £40m on those figures, and god knows what Real Madrid would want for Bale & Jamés ? Bergwign & Daniel James ? They both play mostly on the left wing and while I wish DJ the best of luck, I have serious doubts he has what it takes (hope I'm wrong), so what do I think ?
    A/ That 'team' is average/no improvement
    B/ it will cost a lot more than you suggest
  7. Jun 10, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,191
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    I seriously doubt that anybody has the time or inclination to work their way through that vomitous spew of pro-Glazer spin, so I'll just deal with the first couple of lines (as that is the section that is relevant to the question that I had asked you). The Glazers paid around $200 million dollars for the Buccs, they are now valued at around $2 billion. In the last decade they have only won around 60 games, their ticket prices have continued to increase, and they have not made it to the play-offs once. They operate well below the NFL salary cap. The stadium is tax-payer funded after the Glazers threatened to move the franchise elsewhere, and is now half empty most of the time. The Glazers don't care for the Buccs, they care about their investment, and they like to do the bare minimum to keep it increasing in value.

    Woodward has boasted on several occasions that United don't need to be winning championships in order for the financial results to remain strong. At the same time the stadium is falling behind our competitors, City are winning the hearts and minds of locals through their regeneration of the areas and their community schemes, and - again completely unlike City - we don't have a footballing structure in place to manage the football side of the business (which should be the fecking important bit!). As long as the sponsors keep being brought on board then who cares whether we finish 4th or 1st?

    You'd have to be seriously in denial - or a shill - to see it any other way.
  8. Jun 10, 2019

    Gasolin Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,215
    Location:
    NYC
    I think Woodward was wrong with his now famous statement, he didn't think the prices would go up that high. We cannot keep having financially strong results now since the sporting competition is too strong, we have to go back and win again.

    But I do get @Johan07 point as well, it's impossible to imagine a new owner that would not require a LBO and is not an Arab petro-state magnat to own United. The only thing we can hope for would be to have Ed delegating all the sporting matters to people who know football. And he needs to convince the Glazers that United dying would result in financial performance going down hill. The only way to not die = to keep winning titles, domestically and in Europe, because that's what people pay for.

    As long as the above message is not clearly defined to the Glazers, we are going to struggle. US sports are different, the Bucks etc... don't need to win because you don't need to win to have good financial results in their league.
  9. Jun 10, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,191
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    But this is exactly what Woodward has been telling the investors for years!

    If, indeed, he is now wrong about that (as you suggest) then I presume we'll start to hear a different message from him in his forthcoming Investor updates (or whatever the feck they're called)?
  10. Jun 10, 2019

    kirk buttercup Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2016
    Messages:
    983
    Location:
    wickla!
    Great post
  11. Jun 10, 2019

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Messages:
    20,117
    Fecking hell thats depressing to read :(
  12. Jun 10, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,538
    I was going to take time out from this thread for a while but I just have to respond to this. Its such a classic example of taking something out of context, then reading it e contrario and coming to a conclusion that you pretty much made up yourself.
    Woodward has said at investor briefings that our results are not dependent on success on the pitch every year. The club is financially stable. This is a completely correct statement and something that you would say to investors/shareholders to assure them that their investment is safe even if we are going to have some or many down years on the pitch. Status quo more or less. Share value wont go down.
    What you are doing is reading this e contrario and interpreting that as meaning that Woodward and the Glazers would be happy with that.
    That is where you go logically wrong to start with.
    United today is valued at over 4bn USD. The Glazers has taken out 20-25m in dividends from the club the last three years. I might be wrong here, but I think its the first three years they have taken dividends from the club even.
    What does this tell you? An asset worth 4bn with almost no debt (in relation) that generates dividends of 25m per year. Not really a cash cow is it?
    What does that tell you further? Well, its a fair assumption that the Glazers dont care that much about how much dividends they can take out of the club.
    So what do they care about? Because I am under no illusion that they care about anything else but the mighty dollar. That I think we can all agree on. I just believe that this actually aligns their interests with us fans. Not the other way around,
    The Glazers wont make any serious money by taking out 25m from United every year. They could place that 4bn elsewhere and make much more money just on interest alone. So why? Easy answer, their real profit lies in increasing the total share value of United. To maybe 6bn over the next couple of years, maybe even more. Thats profit, 2bn, not 25m in dividends per year.
    So how to do that? Go to 6bn? INCREASE income to DRIVE share value. From prize money, from sponsorships, from TV-money, from partnerships. How do you do that with a club that is already top-three in the world financially. You dont do it by finishing 4th-5th or being happy with a CL-spots. You do it by constantly challenging for the PL and the CL to drive brand recognition and to push share value.
    You are not doing it by playing status quo what is what Woodward was discussing.
    That is why the Glazers have put so much money into the club for transfers and wages when it started to be needed after Sir Alex left. You might not like them but they are not fecking idiots financially. And thats why I am pretty confident that they will keep on doing it until they get the share value to where they want it. And then they will sell.
    You can think that they are morally corrupt for being capitalists but fact is that that capitalism actually aligns their interest with us as fans. For the reasons I stated above. For now at least.
    Now I am out of this thread for awhile.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  13. Jun 11, 2019

    soaphroniscuss New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2019
    Messages:
    388
    Or you do it by increasing sponsorships while cutting cuts costs (player fees, wages etc) and qualifying for top 4. That's not a model for long term success but it could inflate earnings and profitS in the short term.

    Apparently that 25m is what they use to live on.
    http://www.redcafe.net/threads/why-...the-club-so-badly.447316/page-8#post-24246414
  14. Jun 11, 2019

    Denis79 Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    Messages:
    3,152
    They have bled United for over a billion pounds in dividends, taxes (caused by their business model) and loan re-payments (caused by them) since they took over and we still have massive debts left. You do know we had no debt before they took over, right?

    These are club generated funds that could have gone in infrastructure and other aspects of the club. Please stop talking bullshit on how they are good for the club.

    Enjoy this read. But I'm guessing you won't.
    http://priceoffootball.com/manchester-united-2018-finances-made-of-stone/
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  15. Jun 11, 2019

    Foxbatt Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,987
    Because Woodward is not going to spend any money now to buy anyone decent. He wants to buy one big name instead of many world class players. I am sure we would not get any great players this season. Then in desperation he would pay an an ridiculous amount for one player.
  16. Jun 11, 2019

    TRUERED89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    1,248
    Location:
    England
    Why? I agreed with the OP so what exactly are you on about? You cant be the sharpest tool either with that reply. OP said you're not very intelligent for comparing NFL to Football in terms of the business side of it, I laughed and agreed big deal, get over it!
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  17. Jun 11, 2019

    Gasolin Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,215
    Location:
    NYC
    Investors messages are just BS, Ed is forced to say things like that to make sure investments don't go away. Surely in private things are different. Does that translate into actionable items? I don't know for that, but the PR for investors is not that relevant, you can craft any kind of messages in those meetings to pitch that you're fine and still a valuable investment.
  18. Jun 11, 2019

    TRUERED89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    1,248
    Location:
    England
    Mostly agree, plus Athletico board would have to be drugged to sell Oblak for €40m in this current climate, must be dreaming!
  19. Jun 11, 2019

    JJ12 Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    3,614
    Location:
    Neath
    There's enough links to players such as de Ligt, AWB, Maguire, Bruno and others that satisfy me.

    What is really worrying is the lack of links with players leaving - there's so many that need shipping for feck sake. The only one that's being vaguely linked is Mata and imo is low on the list.
  20. Jun 11, 2019

    Gasolin Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,215
    Location:
    NYC
    And Lukaku. Great player I am sure but doesn't fit the way and the intensity we want to have in our games. I suppose Matic will stay, we may use his experience from time to time.
  21. Jun 11, 2019

    sunama Baghdad Bob

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    14,103
    Johan07 has taken it upon himself to single handedly defend the Glazer family and Woodward.
    I don't agree with what he is saying, but I must admire his conviction in defending them so rigorously.

    While Woodward is in charge of running the club (ie making money for the Glazers), the footballing side of the club will fall by the way-side. The proof? That's in our results during the last 6 years (and counting).
  22. Jun 11, 2019

    Saffron New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    615
    He should get your tagline.

    Agreed. You can play devil’s advocate (some people really can) and try to deflect as much blame away from him as possible, but at the end of the day he’s responsible.

    Hiring his old drinking buddy from university as chief negotiatior just stinks of incompetent nepotism. And I think we have enough of that with the Glazers already.
  23. Jun 11, 2019

    matt10000 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2018
    Messages:
    212
    Location:
    Salford UK
    Why has nothing happened yet?

    Because it isn't like just nipping to the sweetie shop and choosing what you want (unless you are City and cheat)
  24. Jun 11, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,191
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    Because if you'd bothered to read the posts properly you would have understood that I wasn't comparing the two sports at all. I was comparing the Glazer's attitude towards their 2 sporting 'franchises'. They don't give a feck about either - apart from the value of their investment.
  25. Jun 11, 2019

    fergiesarmy1 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Messages:
    646
    Whoever we want there’s a possibility city would want, no deal will be done quickly under these circumstances

    Yet city claim their money hasn’t disrupted football
  26. Jun 12, 2019

    TRUERED89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    1,248
    Location:
    England
    Alright fair enough, I’ve actually had some decent debates with you previously, so no beef it’s all good :). Have a nice evening!
  27. Jun 12, 2019

    Gator Nate Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2019
    Messages:
    311
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Supports:
    Unaffiliated
    I can only disagree with one part... The Bucs don't operate well below the salary cap. No team does. They've already had to release players to make space to sign this year's draft picks.

    But it's all about the TV money. Malcolm cared about the team. His children only care about the investment.
  28. Jun 12, 2019

    Moriarty Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,961
    Location:
    Reichenbach Falls
    Supports:
    A wife and a cat.
    You only have to look at that pic with him holding the Lombardi trophy to see that. His enthusiasm for United, however, was practically nil, at least as a sports team. We were nothing more than an investment to him.
  29. Jun 14, 2019

    MrBest Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    1,078
    It is so frustrating, middle or June and no signing except James. We are going to Australia in 2 weeks so it would have been amazing to have 90% of our next season squad ready by then.
  30. Jun 14, 2019

    kirk buttercup Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2016
    Messages:
    983
    Location:
    wickla!
    Probably going to be a domino effect in the next two weeks ... I hope
  31. Jun 14, 2019

    Striker10 "Ronaldo and trophies > Manchester United football

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Messages:
    18,324
    Because if we sell before we buy the price goes up. Because we want to sell, people try to buy on the cheap and the players don't feel an incentive to play for a smaller team or get paid less. The markets fecked. If we sign 4/5 players? it will be a miracle. As it is we signed one player thus far for what? 15million? What year are we in? Let's wait and see
  32. Jun 14, 2019

    Toddler New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Messages:
    513
    Location:
    I only wish Man Utd to do well
    You can only hope. Not optimistic at all.
  33. Jun 14, 2019

    Escobar Poster originally known as Michel04

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    23,752
    Location:
    La-La-Land
    I like your optimism, but very unlikely
  34. Jun 14, 2019

    shiranaiotoko New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2019
    Messages:
    54
    Is something going to happen anyway? I can't see major transfers, but at least Bisaka and Vardy would be nice.
  35. Jun 14, 2019

    Smores Full Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    18,388
    Preseason training next week and the only new addition is a backup winger. Ole must be concerned.
  36. Jun 14, 2019

    dwd Saturday Night Spies

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,730
    Location:
    Under soil heating.
    It really is going to be Smalling, Jones and Young in defence again isn't it?
  37. Jun 14, 2019

    dove Full Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2013
    Messages:
    4,110
    I feel this summer is going to be disastrous. Our best players want to leave and we seem to have gone "young British players" route. We will end up panicking and paying something like £50m + £10m addons for AWB and £80m for Maguire, failing to replace Lukaku as we will hope Rashy will step up.
  38. Jun 14, 2019

    Jacob Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    23,185
    For all the talk about us planning moves and signings for the summer as early as January. We have no fecking excuse to not do what Real has done.

    It's as if the Glazers/Woodward is doing this to spite us after all the hate and negativitiy in media.
  39. Jun 15, 2019

    wolvored Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    4,472
    Well we have 2 weeks left to get this new spine in, if we are to hit Ole's request of having it all done by 1 July. Im getting less and less confident by the day. I am thinking more and more that the fact we resigned Jones and Young, plus we are still trying to resign Mata, is an indication that nothing big is going to happen. It wouldnt surprise me to end up signing a maximum of 2 more players, probably towards the end of next month, which wont be near enough good enough.
  40. Jun 15, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,114
    Ed would love me? :lol::lol:

    Standard "supporter" of football these days, thinks its FIFA UT or Football manager!

    Bale is crocked pal and has been for a couple of season's now. Wouldn't take him if Real paid us to! James isn't much better.

    Selling Pogba our best Outfield player as well?