Why has nothing happened yet? | Things are now happening

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Dr Fink, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. Jun 9, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,114
    How am I "flip flopping"? I've other members telling me I'm repeating myself :lol:

    I'm not making up wage percentages, I am asking you what you believe to be an acceptable % of our turn over? Your not happy with it being 45-50%, so do tell me what is acceptable?

    The problems also started prior to Ed, so singling him out is also naive.

    And if he doesn't "authorize" spending? He is also beaten with the "over ruling" or "not supporting" his manager stick. Supports the "football men" and blamed for lack of structure.

    How in the blue hell are folks not understanding this... Both demands cannot be met! It's actually impossible, like it cannot be done!

    I mention Jose cause he has been here for almost half of his tenure as CEO, he is also responsible for expensive transfer fees and the signing of Sanchez and the renewal of player contracts.

    I mention Jose cause there are distinct examples like Fellaini. Whom almost all our supporters believe is average and never signed at all, but Jose demanded he be kept, Jose stated that he needed him.

    A repeated complaint often thrown at Ed is the renewal of Jones, Smalling & Young's contracts. Considering Jose picked Jones & Smalling over his own investments, isn't entirely plausible that he requested they both be kept? He also favored Young over Shaw, the latter routinely received public dressing downs from Jose.

    So that's 4 average players Jose most likely favored and requested be kept and rewarded with new deals.

    I've genuinely lost count here asking this.. but if Ed is supporting his manager and keeping these players, how on earth is it Ed's fault for following the instruction of a "football man" like Jose?
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  2. Jun 9, 2019

    Bobski Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2017
    Messages:
    3,166
    Nothing has happened yet, around Europe. We have 3 months of this shit to endure.
  3. Jun 9, 2019

    lukepowell1988 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    72
    European Transfer window isn't open until the end of next week to bring players in we also have to ship some out we will most likely be selling within the top european leagues.
  4. Jun 9, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,538
    So now one is an astroturfer for admitting that I own shares in United (its not that many btw, more of a symbolic thing).
    What the feck is wrong with that? If more of the moaners here put their money where there mouths are maybe it might even lead to some kind of supporter influence in the future. If you disagree with the Glazers, buy shares in United and you actually have some theoretical influence. And you will have removed some from the Glazers.
    And you will be privy to information that is given to shareholders before that info is reprocessed in ABU-media.
    I would recommend everyone in here to buy some shares in United before they are scooped up by investment companies
    (which is already happening).
    If the Glazers put more shares on the market and investment companies buys them up instead of fans we will come closer to another leveraged takeover. And you will have been part of letting it happen.
    Moaning about the Glazers and the Woodward in here will do absolutely nothing. Fans have no influence over who the owners appoint as CEO. But if you want to moan about something pontless thats your privilege I guess. Moaning about them with false or incorrect information, I will at least try to set straight.
    Thats not defending the Glazers or Woodward; its defending the club, which if anything does not need these false narratives that turn in to facts on the Caf as long as they are negative towards the Glazers and Woodward.
    If you do care, buy some shares. Then you actually did something relevant.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  5. Jun 9, 2019

    Shaidabdullah Hussain New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2018
    Messages:
    340
    Location:
    A pretty Sikh United fan
    Not sure if it’s been posted here yet but Rooney said this about what we should be doing;

    “The first thing Ole has to do is build the squad. I don't think bringing in one or two players for £100m is going to help the players already there. He's better spending £30-40m on players with potential & building the squad around those five or six players.”

    I think he’s spot on
  6. Jun 9, 2019

    the chameleon Full Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    491
    I’ve been thinking the same thing too! You can’t even have a proper debate with them because they keep waffling the same things. When you call them out, they throw insults or get aggressive with their writing. That keefy fella has spent the whole weekend defending the glazers and Woodward. Got a WUM from Rawk or someone from Ed’s online reputation management agency.
  7. Jun 9, 2019

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Messages:
    14,681
    Location:
    Player Performance Threads
    I have to disagree, I'd hate for us to sign another 30m project CB like Bailly and Lindelof. If we're going to make effective changes I don't mind them being gradual. A 80M on a De Ligt makes more sense to me.
  8. Jun 9, 2019

    Lee565 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2019
    Messages:
    612
    We will absolutely kick ourselves if the club doesn't get its act together and be clinical in the transfer market this summer with Chelsea potentially getting a transfer ban and no more Hazard, plus Arsenal only having 50p to spend on transfers and being without Ramsey.

    Attaining at least 4th should be an even easier job than what was there for the taking the season just gone.
  9. Jun 10, 2019

    StrettyEnder07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
    755
    Hopefully there should be some movement this week with the Nations League finishing and the Euro qualifiers finishing in midweek.

    That Ruben Dias impressed me last night watching the final, 52m buyout clause apparently, now that De Ligt is dead in the water and Napoli want 110m+ for Koulibaly, seems a far better option than paying mental money for Harry Maguire.

    Also, very impressed with Bruno Fernandes, a lot of talk about him being close to signing, looks a top player eye for goal.

    European window does not officially open until the back end of this week so fingers crossed a few in the pipeline, won't hold my breath though.
  10. Jun 10, 2019

    Fox outside the box Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2019
    Messages:
    174
    Really ignorant post to be honest. Someone disagreeing with you doesn't make them wrong, nor does it reflect their support of the club.

    There's a lot of discussion to be had and valid points from both sides of the fence. The truth and root of the problems will likely sit somewhere in between and we won't get to understanding that or having a better understanding without considering both sides of the arguments.

    Hounding people or shutting them down because they have points of view that oppose yours get nobody anywhere. It isn't constructive at all and given we're discussing things that we generally have very little idea about and likely zero experience in dealing with, considering all factors is a worthwhile exercise.
  11. Jun 10, 2019

    12OunceEpilogue Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    8,127
    Location:
    Wigan
    That's it for me. With the European window yet to have opened and some final bits and bobs of international football to be concluded I have no issue with us not having announced three or four big signings. I'm happy we've managed to get James sorted early and I'm hoping to see us in the thick of the transfer action in the coming few weeks.
  12. Jun 10, 2019

    StrettyEnder07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
    755
    Yeah you would hope so mate, normally have to wait for a few players to be bought around Europe before the domino effect comes into play. Clubs will be waiting to offload players before they have the money to buy and sides will be ensuring they meet various FFP regulations this summer.

    Regarding United, we won't buy a CF if/until Lukaku goes to either Napoli or Inter (which can't happen until Icardi maybe goes to Roma or Juve, which again depends on what happens with Dybala).

    Same with Pogba, DDG, who he can get rid of from the deadwood. Assuming (and hoping) they have a list of all possible outcomes so you would think they are looking to get the priority signings in first (AWB, CB, Fernandes, James) and then see how the squad is to see if we need another CM/CF.

    Time will tell but if we can squeeze one maybe two deals in over the next week or two, be pretty happy.
  13. Jun 10, 2019

    wolvored Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    4,472
    I think by the end of next week we can see where we are heading. I would think if we are in for (insert names here from the hundreds in the media) we should have at least 1 more in. If not then I would start to worry a bit. Ole wants it all done and dusted by the end of the month, but you can see us stumbling around and signing somebody the day before the season starts.
  14. Jun 10, 2019

    fallengt Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,195
    Judging from Woodward's reactive strategy on everything. It's not beyond reach that he or his assistant has account on social media/forum.

    "Ole's reached the threshold of votes on Caf? Ok we sign him"
  15. Jun 10, 2019

    Lentwood Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,499
    Location:
    West Didsbury, Manchester
    There is no 'view' to be had on this....the Glazers are killing our club! There's no debate, there's no defending them - they are a parasite that need to be removed. Anything but total hostility towards them contributes to the slow death of the club I love

    I'm happy for people to disagree with my views on players, managers, tactics etc....but there are some arguments and some 'points of view' I could just never support or entertain and this is one of them
  16. Jun 10, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,191
    Location:
    Cooking MCs like a pound of bacon
    Completely agree.
  17. Jun 10, 2019

    Saffron New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    615
    It’s been widely acknowledged that fan protests put significant pressure on Liverpool’s previous owners to sell the club. And look at where they are now.

    But yeah, I suppose they should have bought shares in Gillett and Hicks instead to prolong their own suffering.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  18. Jun 10, 2019

    Marrakesh New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    Messages:
    27
    +1. Parasites.
  19. Jun 10, 2019

    Hughes35 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    397
    I find it weird how it seems so difficult to tell which United rumours are true and which are false. Other clubs don't seem to have this issue do they?

    We have been linked with literally every player that might be available, Madrid get linked with Hazard and bang Hazard is signed. Is it because I focus more on Utd rumours or is there more rubbish printed about us?
  20. Jun 10, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,538
    No, you should not have since you dont seem to know what a share is and how shareholding works.
    "Shares in Gillett and Hicks". Jesus christ, the Caf sometimes.
    Liverpool is not and have never been listed on a stock exchange as far as I know.
    Can you plz think a ltb before posting again in this thread.
  21. Jun 10, 2019

    Kapardin New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Messages:
    9,918
    Location:
    Chennai, India
    It's a bit of both. Players' agents see United as perfect suckers who offer big wages and thus use our name to speed up transfers to other clubs. Journos drag our name into things in the hope that we will spend big, when the reality is that Woodward has been cutting down on the spending since 2015 bar exceptions like Pogba who possess marketing potential.

    De Ligt is a perfect example. I was never into that from the start, he has zero reasons to join us. Every Raiola client will now start using our name as the fat feck charges obscene money for both his client and himself.
  22. Jun 10, 2019

    Saffron New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    615
    It was a humoruous turn of phrase not meant to be taken literally.

    You’re still dodging the main point. Liverpool had crap owners and actually did something about it and forced them out. They didn’t give them more money in order to keep them from being bought out like you are proposing.
  23. Jun 10, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,538
    I would have taken that with a shrug and then you state something even more bonkers.
    If you think buying a share on an open market is giving the Glazers money you really are clueless.
    The Glazers already got their money for those shares when they put United back on the market. They get zip if you buy shares in United.
    You are paying another shareholder in competition with investment funds that I promise you will make the Glazers look like the Messiahs if they manage to build up enough of a shareholding in the club.
    The best thing that any United supporter can do is to purchase the shares that the Glazers put on the market. Longterm there could even be such a thing as a United shareholders association. It would be taking back some theoretical power. That would actually mean something.
    What you are going on about is not.
  24. Jun 10, 2019

    Josep Dowling Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    3,188
    It concerns me that someone who has bought shares in Manchester United does not realise how the share structure of the club has been set up. There is only one form of shares on the stock exchange - share A, share B are held by the Glazers and they have 10 times more voting rights than the ones on the stock market. Even if one person bought all those shares they cannot remove the Glazers.
  25. Jun 10, 2019

    Lee565 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2019
    Messages:
    612
    This, United fans trash Liverpool fans but at least they put up a fight for their club where as a majority of our fans seem to be as what Roy Keane once infamously described them as.
  26. Jun 10, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,538
    Of course not. Did I even suggest something similar? And my symbolic purchase of shares in United is not to stage a coup against the Glazers. Its to in theory protect the club from another leveraged takeover. Today Baron Capital owns 25 percent of the United stock listed on NYSE. Thats 5,8 percent of the club. Google them if you want to. If you think thats a good idea that they increase their holdings more you are not thinking clearly. Its got leveraged takeover written all over it.
    EDIT
    I correct myself. Today Baron Capital owns almost 40 percent of the stock listed on NYSE. Thats 10 percent of the club. If anything that is the threat against the club we should be discussing.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  27. Jun 10, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,538
    But the two situations are completely incomparable. Gillett and Hicks put Liverpool on the brink of insolvency and bankruptcy. Their takeover threatened the very existance of the club. Its not even close to the Glazers, not at the time of the leveraged buyout, and absolutely not now with United being in excellent financial health.
  28. Jun 10, 2019

    yamo123x Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,782
    Location:
    england
    Sorry to dampen your spirits but with all the inactivity it looks like we are going to see more of an Ashley Young punt up field going straight out for a goal kick whilst the the static Lukaku applauds the invention and application. Meanwhile Jones is down and the physio signals to the bench.

    In all seriousness i hope we get De Ligt or Maguire.

    Bruno Fernandes too.
  29. Jun 10, 2019

    Saffron New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    615
    Google FUD and concern trolling.

    You want us to actively fight to keep a bad owner because hypothetically there could be a worse one. For all we know you may only think so because it would impact your shares negatively.

    Well I’m not content with such low ambitions for United. Not challenging for the next 20 years until the Glazers have finally sucked us dry and decide to sell anyway. When they get to a point where we’re comfortably midtable and they want one last payday.

    Don’t think for a second they actually care about United.
  30. Jun 10, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,538
    How are they sucking us dry?
    By taking out 20-25m per years in dividends the last three financial years. Thats five percent of turnover and around 60 percent of the profit over those years. Completely reasonable and equivalent to anyother multinational company.
    By investing almost 500m in transfers the last 5 years? 50m short of City and double any other clubs investment.
    By increasing our wage bill to 300m - highest in the PL -and for the first time ever putting us over 50 percent wage/turnover ratio.
    Yeah, things could be worse. Way worse.
    I will take those numbers any day.
    I can understand arguments about the footballing side being better run or at least structured differently. But this "sucking dry"-crap is just that: crap and so 2006 and green and gold. We are being run perfectly good financially on the footballing side and thats what matters to me. Can we use the money better. Maybe. Hopefully. Can we ask for more financially. Not very likely.
  31. Jun 10, 2019

    Lynty Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    837
    I don't think that's what Rooney was saying. Its more along the lines of 'investing in potential' and thinking ahead 4, 5, 6 years instead of buying top players who will need replacing in 2, and so the cycle continues.

    The figures quoted were just theoretical, and sounds as if he's out of touch with the current market price haha
  32. Jun 10, 2019

    Buster15 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,631
    Location:
    Bristol
    Supports:
    Bristol Rovers
    I have read this a couple of times and it makes more sense each time I read it.
    Some would call them investors and some just parasites.
    My opinion is the latter in that they are just using (as you say) the club I love as well for one purpose. Using it simply as a cash cow to finance and refinance their loans against an appreciating asset.

    Any intelligent owner/directors should define their strategy and then communicate that strategy to all of the stakeholders in order to get maximum commitment.
    This strategy becomes their Business Plan.
    They should then define how that BP is going to be Deployed or Delivered.
    This should then be flowed down to everyone associated with the club.

    However, the problem is that, unless I have completely missed it, we have no idea what our owners ambitions are for Manchester United. They are probably satisfied that while the profits remain healthy, they can delegate the strategy to the CEO and just expect more of the same.
    That leaves a complete void between owners and stakeholders, one of which are we the loyal fans.
    In my view, the supporters of Manchester United deserve to know what the plans are for next season. But we don't because they don't seem to know themselves.
  33. Jun 10, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,538
    Whats a stakeholder and what do you mean by that anyways? I tried to substitute it for shareholders and it made no sense whatsoever.
  34. Jun 10, 2019

    Harry190 Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Messages:
    4,140
    Location:
    Canada
    Takes a while to move such sums around. United, sometimes to its detriment has almost always been very law-abiding and careful with regards to such matters.
  35. Jun 10, 2019

    Buster15 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,631
    Location:
    Bristol
    Supports:
    Bristol Rovers
    Sorry. A stakeholder is simply someone who has a stake in a business or a vested interest. Employer, employees, suppliers etc.
    This football club should be run in order to deliver footballing success and a recipient of that success is the supporter.
  36. Jun 10, 2019

    Eli Zee New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    304
    i think the problem with that is, you buy less players per window.

    So if we bring in two superstars instead of 5-6 players who are good with potential and then we lose pogba, de gea.. then we are back to having just the 2 superstars we bought in the window and an unstable team. if we bring in a core of players who will add stability to the team, and slowly improve them over time, we will probably be better off in the long run (and not taken advantage of for high wages).
  37. Jun 10, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    2,463
    Location:
    Muppet station for next season.
    Our owners are not very vocal about their intent with the ownership of our club. Must be a reason for that.
    From the investor relations site:
    https://ir.manutd.com/company-information/business-strategy.aspx
    https://ir.manutd.com/company-information/business-model.aspx

    Monetize the worldwide reach of our brand.

    As far as I know, the club/owners have not shared their football intentions/goals. OGS has stated his personal goal for the club, but do not think he speaks for the club on this.
  38. Jun 10, 2019

    Buster15 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,631
    Location:
    Bristol
    Supports:
    Bristol Rovers
    Thank you. As I expected.
    The most successful businesses realise that communication is one of the most important things that they can do.
    Just about sums us up.
  39. Jun 10, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    2,463
    Location:
    Muppet station for next season.
    I think if the owners and the clubs intention were to perform on the pitch, compete for EPL/CL then this would have been communicated.
    If your intentions are not aligned with the fans hopes/goals then it is safer/better to say nothing at all.

    A vision--> long term goals --> long term strategy to achieve those goals --> short term goals --> short term strategy... is a helpful and often used planning/improvement/change management tool for normal businesses, the same applies to a football club. And the same techniques/processes applies for both industries, with some adjustment.
  40. Jun 10, 2019

    GBBQ Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    3,728
    Location:
    Ireland
    Or it could be the fact that the short term football goals of the club are irrelevant to the investors. United being an attractive brand is as much built into out history and global reach. Liverpool proved you can go many years without winning a league and still remain a globally supported club and so remain an attractive investment opportunity.