Why is everyone so certain that DDG will be a starter under ETH?

[Adnan]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Beachryan]

Given how detailed he is, there's no world where ETH doesn't realise how many goals we concede just like that Villa one (and to be fair, a corner about 10 mins before that which should have been a goal). Given that with high posession we don't concede many chances, fixing that one issue is probably the 'lowest hanging fruit'.

There has to be a training regime, coaching change that can force De Gea to take some ownership of his area. I'm personaly baffled that he's never gotten better at it in over a decade with us - what is the point of coaching if not to work on weaknesses?

David is a big guy, with good leap. There is no reason why he shouldn't be able to get up in the air and punch or claim high crosses. I can see no benefit whatsoever as him being the only keeper in world football whose approach on corners is to stay rooted to his line.

Something just doesn't add up.

 

[mitchmouse]

Maignan is the one really. Allowing both him and Donnaruma to move clubs last summer for buttons without even trying to bring one of them in was frankly astonishingly bad from us. Next summer Maignan will have 3 years left on his deal so you'd be looking at a £50m+ deal but if we were back in the Champions League you'd imagine he may be interested as obviously we pay a lot better than AC Milan do, particularly if they don't have as good of a season this year. Staying in the Serie A, it will be interesting to see how Luis Maximiano does at Lazio. He had a really good season at Granada last year despite their relegation and certainly ticks most boxes in terms of the style of goalkeeper you imagine we'd be looking for.

In terms of Premier League goalkeepers, it will be interesting to see another season of Robert Sanchez, Jose Sa & to a lesser extent David Raya as they all had good seasons last year and tick the boxes again. Meslier had a terrible season in terms of mistakes so it will be interesting to see if he can recapture his form because he was rightly an interesting prospect the previous year. I've also long had an interest in Stefan Ortega so it will be interesting to see how he does in the limited game time he'll get at City. It will also be very interesting to see how Bazunu steps up to the PL if Southampton make him their first choice given how well regarded he's been in his previous loans, also City have a buy back option on him.

Outside of that, there are a number of good goalkeepers that would tick boxes we'd be looking for, though most of them are around 30 already so not exactly coming through - which is still not an issue for a goalkeeper, looking at Remiro, Bounou, Rulli, Silva.

In terms of very young goalkeepers getting regular football outside of Meslier. Porto have a good young goalkeeper of 21 or 22, Diogo Costa, who appears to have taken over from Patricio as first choice for the national side too. I would have mentioned Maarten Vandervoort but he's one I don't know as much as I should about and he's already agreed to sign for Leipzig in two years time which is rather odd. We've been linked with Giorgi Mamardashvili previously and he ticks a lot of boxes in terms of a progressive goalkeeper but is somewhat raw I'd say, but could be of interest, particularly if we were looking to bring a young goalkeeper in to progress rather than take over immediately.

Martinez for me. Won't be 30 until next year so could still be playing in 2032. Very proactive, good shot stopper, shouldn't be stupidly expensive and buying him would annoy Slippy G! (actually, I think Gerrard might want to give Olsen a go at Villa so might be available).

Fabianski wouldn't be awful either and there's always Kasper, who of course supported the club as a kid. I think having someone with PL experience would be a bonus unless of course Manuel Neuer wanted to be more busy in his final years!

 

[mitchmouse]

Given how detailed he is, there's no world where ETH doesn't realise how many goals we concede just like that Villa one (and to be fair, a corner about 10 mins before that which should have been a goal). Given that with high posession we don't concede many chances, fixing that one issue is probably the 'lowest hanging fruit'.

There has to be a training regime, coaching change that can force De Gea to take some ownership of his area. I'm personaly baffled that he's never gotten better at it in over a decade with us - what is the point of coaching if not to work on weaknesses?

David is a big guy, with good leap. There is no reason why he shouldn't be able to get up in the air and punch or claim high crosses. I can see no benefit whatsoever as him being the only keeper in world football whose approach on corners is to stay rooted to his line.

Something just doesn't add up.

He is very thin and slight. Maybe Ronaldo could take him around the gym a few times a week!

 

[JB7]

Martinez for me. Won't be 30 until next year so could still be playing in 2032. Very proactive, good shot stopper, shouldn't be stupidly expensive and buying him would annoy Slippy G! (actually, I think Gerrard might want to give Olsen a go at Villa so might be available).

Fabianski wouldn't be awful either and there's always Kasper, who of course supported the club as a kid. I think having someone with PL experience would be a bonus unless of course Manuel Neuer wanted to be more busy in his final years!

I'm not sure on any of those three at this moment in time for varying reasons.

Martinez wasn't looking bad this time last year but had a really poor season, so it will be interesting to see how he rebounds. The concern with him is that he's below average in terms of both dealing with crosses and sweeping, which would suggest he's nowhere near as proactive as he appears to be. He's ok on the ball but I'm not sure he's at the level we'll be looking for.

Fabianski is a shout I have to question though because he's probably the only keeper in the league as bad as De Gea in terms of dealing with crosses and sweeping. He's a very good shot stopper but far too similar to De Gea to ever consider, particular with us seemingly wanting to play a higher line.

Schmeichel is better than Fabianski & De Gea in terms of crossing/sweeping but not close to any of the goalkeepers I initially suggested. The other issue with him is that he has shown a regression over the past couple of seasons and already being 35 I'd be very surprised if he increased his levels to what we would need from a goalkeeper.

That's why I think the most realistic options from within the league already are Sa, Sanchez & Raya. Particularly with the style of football we are looking to play with us being high up the pitch and on the front foot. Most likely Sanchez if we are only looking within the Premier League but given Brighton's pricetag on Cucurella it appears they may want similar money to Milan would likely take for Maignan and if so it's a no brainer to go for Maignan as he's the only stand-out goalkeeper not already settled at club that wouldn't sell to us.

 

[Trex]

He is very thin and slight. Maybe Ronaldo could take him around the gym a few times a week!

His size isn't really the issue, he is just not brave enough, its not like bigger keepers can't get hurt.

 

[Greck]

I’d honestly bring Romero back, stronger in the air, better on the ball. Free, low wages, plus he’d be over the moon too.

He should have never left. Another consequence of Ole's foolhardy homegrown plan in that first summer. Most of his players are now hotly debated on whether they are good enough to warrant their status, Maguire, AWB, Henderson. Henderson was not a better No,2 than Romero or No,1 than De Gea. I don't know why we prematurely decided he was going to be United nubmer 1. Takes more than a succesful loan to decide these things. Ben Foster had a successful loan I think at Birmingham and was homegrown but SAF didn't jump to conclusions. Should have paid more attention to the man he was blindly emulating. He also was never content to be a backup for long so we pretty much disgruntled and lost romero over nothing.

 

[Revaulx]

I’d honestly bring Romero back, stronger in the air, better on the ball. Free, low wages, plus he’d be over the moon too.

I really liked Romero while he was here, and found the criticism he constantly endured on the Caf really bizarre. Is he still as good? I believe he’s had a fair few injuries recently.

Actually, I don’t find the criticism bizarre looking back. People moan about United signing big name galacticos, but when we sign a little known player they are always despised regardless of their performances.

 

[Greck]

I really liked Romero while he was here, and found the criticism he constantly endured on the Caf really bizarre. Is he still as good? I believe he’s had a fair few injuries recently.

Actually, I don’t find the criticism bizarre looking back. People moan about United signing big name galacticos, but when we sign a little known player they are always despised regardless of their performances.

Was he really criticized? He was loved as one of the best backup keepers. In fact he and DDG as a duo were considered the only position that hadn't slipped in standards. Especially as he played a part in our last couple trophies.

 

[JB7]

He should have never left. Another consequence of Ole's foolhardy homegrown plan in that first summer. Most of his players are now hotly debated on whether they are good enough to warrant their status, Maguire, AWB, Henderson. Henderson was not a better No,2 than Romero or No,1 than De Gea. I don't know why we prematurely decided he was going to be United nubmer 1. Takes more than a succesful loan to decide these things. Ben Foster had a successful loan I think at Birmingham and was homegrown but SAF didn't jump to conclusions. Should have paid more attention to the man he was blindly emulating. He also was never content to be a backup for long so we pretty much disgruntled and lost romero over nothing.

The Henderson bashing is weird. He's been given one run in the team and it seems to get worse the longer ago it was. Every performance metric improved during his spell in goal and almost immediately fell off a cliff as soon as De Gea was brought back. The defenders were considerably more comfortable knowing they had a goalkeeper more likely to deal with crosses or sweep behind them, as well as making himself available in possession if they were in trouble. He made a couple of bad errors during his spell in the team, vs Liverpool & Milan, but it's not like De Gea had been having a good season prior to him getting his run in the team either. Do I think he's good enough? In all likelihood, probably not for where we want to be, but this retrospective "he was shite" attitude that comes across on here is just nonsense. Every statistic shows he is still a better fit for this team than De Gea, but then the vast majority of goalkeepers are in fairness so that's not saying a lot. It will be interesting to see how he does at Forest.

Also regarding Ben Foster, he spent two years on loan at Watford and then a further two or three years with our first team before he was sold. He played the cup games one season and did ok, then was given an opportunity in his final season with us as VDS was injured and made mistake after mistake after mistake before Ferguson had a mental at him and dropped him for Kuszczak. He also gave an interview at the time about how he wasn't right for United IIRC and how it was weird not celebrating trophies as much as he did with smaller clubs. So he was certainly given every chance rather than being sold off the back of a loan spell like you appear to think.

 

[Greck]

The Henderson bashing is weird. He's been given one run in the team and it seems to get worse the longer ago it was. Every performance metric improved during his spell in goal and almost immediately fell off a cliff as soon as De Gea was brought back. The defenders were considerably more comfortable knowing they had a goalkeeper more likely to deal with crosses or sweep behind them, as well as making himself available in possession if they were in trouble. He made a couple of bad errors during his spell in the team, vs Liverpool & Milan, but it's not like De Gea had been having a good season prior to him getting his run in the team either. Do I think he's good enough? In all likelihood, probably not for where we want to be, but this retrospective "he was shite" attitude that comes across on here is just nonsense. Every statistic shows he is still a better fit for this team than De Gea, but then the vast majority of goalkeepers are in fairness so that's not saying a lot. It will be interesting to see how he does at Forest.

Also regarding Ben Foster, he spent two years on loan at Watford and then a further two or three years with our first team before he was sold. He played the cup games one season and did ok, then was given an opportunity in his final season with us as VDS was injured and made mistake after mistake after mistake before Ferguson had a mental at him and dropped him for Kuszczak. He also gave an interview at the time about how he wasn't right for United IIRC and how it was weird not celebrating trophies as much as he did with smaller clubs. So he was certainly given every chance rather than being sold off the back of a loan spell like you appear to think.

Didn't say he was sold immediately off of that loan, just that he was sold after. The season he spent back from loan is well noted and also the intended loose parallel to Henderson's season back from loan. Just remember feeling henderson wasn't a United number 1, albeit with none of the high profile mistakes of the other, not even close in that regard.

Can also acknowledge the stats but don't really care too much who the numbers favour between De gea and henderson because I'm certain they are nowhere close to the same number of games/sample size. Stats differences between massively varying samples don't have much worth. If the difference in impact was even as glaring as the stats imply Henderson would get more games in a heartbeat. They simply don't pass the eye test. Truth is, on the back of what we saw, even Ole couldn't justify giving him playing time over DDG, despite being the one who wanted to phase out DDG in the first place. Pretty much he couldn't even earn himself a larger sample. He simply wasn't better than De Gea that season.

Edit btw and on a final note saying a player isn't a United number 1 isn't bashing the player.

 

[Revaulx]

Was he really criticized? He was loved as one of the best backup keepers. In fact he and DDG as a duo were considered the only position that hadn't slipped in standards. Especially as he played a part in our last couple trophies.

I’ve just re-read his transfer thread and you are right. There’s one Top Red who hates him because his wife criticised Ed Woodward, then there’s this:

So he can throw a strop again and refuse to show up for training? No thanks.

Most overrated player I’ve ever seen, relegation crap is where he belongs.

But you’re quite right; the rest of the posts are overwhelmingly positive, though one or two question whether he’s still up to it given his recent injury record.

 

[JB7]

Didn't say he was sold immediately off of that loan, just that he was sold after. The season he spent back from loan is well noted and also the intended loose parallel to Henderson's season back from loan. Just remember feeling henderson wasn't a United number 1, albeit with none of the high profile mistakes of the other, not even close in that regard.

Can also acknowledge the stats but don't really care too much who the numbers favour between De gea and henderson because I'm certain they are nowhere close to the same number of games/sample size. Stats differences between massively varying samples don't have much worth. If the difference in impact was even as glaring as the stats imply Henderson would get more games in a heartbeat. They simply don't pass the eye test. Truth is, on the back of what we saw, even Ole couldn't justify giving him playing time over DDG, despite being the one who wanted to phase out DDG in the first place. Pretty much he couldn't even earn himself a larger sample. He simply wasn't better than De Gea that season.

Edit btw and on a final note saying a player isn't a United number 1 isn't bashing the player.

He absolutely was better than De Gea that season, which again, isn't saying a lot because De Gea had a dreadful season. And this "Ole couldn't justify giving him playing time" is another myth that's grown over time as it was pretty much universally reported that Henderson would be starting last season at number one prior to him catch Covid. De Gea then started the season well initially and Ole stuck with him from then.

By the way the stats over seasons 19/20 and 20/21were massively in Henderson's favour, even in De Gea's one decent stat of PSxG, Henderson was comfortably ahead of him. They also showed Henderson as more than twice as likely to deal with a cross into the box and more than four times more likely to sweep behind the defence. So yeah the stats suggest he should have got more games, in a heartbeat, and it's incredibly frustrating that we keep our team hamstrung with De Gea given the improvements in defending we've seen with relatively average goalkeepers in terms of Henderson and Romero in the team over the past few years.

 

[Smores]

He absolutely was better than De Gea that season, which again, isn't saying a lot because De Gea had a dreadful season. And this "Ole couldn't justify giving him playing time" is another myth that's grown over time as it was pretty much universally reported that Henderson would be starting last season at number one prior to him catch Covid. De Gea then started the season well initially and Ole stuck with him from then.

By the way the stats over seasons 19/20 and 20/21were massively in Henderson's favour, even in De Gea's one decent stat of PSxG, Henderson was comfortably ahead of him. They also showed Henderson as more than twice as likely to deal with a cross into the box and more than four times more likely to sweep behind the defence. So yeah the stats suggest he should have got more games, in a heartbeat, and it's incredibly frustrating that we keep our team hamstrung with De Gea given the improvements in defending we've seen with relatively average goalkeepers in terms of Henderson and Romero in the team over the past few years.

He was awful, had some of the worst positioning I've seen from a keeper in a few of his limited games. That doesn't matter though because stats.

 

[Oranges038]

He was awful, had some of the worst positioning I've seen from a keeper in a few of his limited games. That doesn't matter though because stats.

It's not just the individual stats.

Henderson did let in a few soft goals there's no denying that. Were they any worse than some of the ones DDG has conceded over the years? Some that stick out for me are Barcelona & Everton. Then this season Young Boys, Arsenal & City. Not to mention how many times he gets beat at his near post, Ole's last game at Watford there were 2 or more.

On average the team conceded less goals, kept more clean sheets and won more games with Henderson in goal. DDG on average has conceded over a goal a game in nearly every season at the club. Average goals conceded went from nearly 1.5 to below 1 with Henderson, for the first time in about 3 seasons. DDG came back in last season and it shot back up to 1.5 again. Even with Sheffield Utd Henderson was conceding on average less than a goal a game.

With Henderson it all resulted in an improved overall defensive performance, which also resulted in an improved win rate from about 50% with DDG to almost 70% with Henderson. The proof is there.

 

[OT_United]

De Gea is well past it, I'm not sure how anyone can argue he doesn't need replacing under EHT.
Can't use his feet, can't catch it. I would have liked Henderson to be given no.1.

 

[mitchmouse]

His size isn't really the issue, he is just not brave enough, its not like bigger keepers can't get hurt.

I've said for year that he isn't brave enough but a forward is more likely to challenge him that that player would if it was Peter S coming flying at them!

 

[mitchmouse]

I'm not sure on any of those three at this moment in time for varying reasons.

Martinez wasn't looking bad this time last year but had a really poor season, so it will be interesting to see how he rebounds. The concern with him is that he's below average in terms of both dealing with crosses and sweeping, which would suggest he's nowhere near as proactive as he appears to be. He's ok on the ball but I'm not sure he's at the level we'll be looking for.

Fabianski is a shout I have to question though because he's probably the only keeper in the league as bad as De Gea in terms of dealing with crosses and sweeping. He's a very good shot stopper but far too similar to De Gea to ever consider, particular with us seemingly wanting to play a higher line.

Schmeichel is better than Fabianski & De Gea in terms of crossing/sweeping but not close to any of the goalkeepers I initially suggested. The other issue with him is that he has shown a regression over the past couple of seasons and already being 35 I'd be very surprised if he increased his levels to what we would need from a goalkeeper.

That's why I think the most realistic options from within the league already are Sa, Sanchez & Raya. Particularly with the style of football we are looking to play with us being high up the pitch and on the front foot. Most likely Sanchez if we are only looking within the Premier League but given Brighton's pricetag on Cucurella it appears they may want similar money to Milan would likely take for Maignan and if so it's a no brainer to go for Maignan as he's the only stand-out goalkeeper not already settled at club that wouldn't sell to us.

I saw quite a bit of Martinez last season and thought he was very good - but I did forget about Sanchez and agree with you: that would be a good call

 

[sullydnl]

That's why I think the most realistic options from within the league already are Sa, Sanchez & Raya. Particularly with the style of football we are looking to play with us being high up the pitch and on the front foot. Most likely Sanchez if we are only looking within the Premier League but given Brighton's pricetag on Cucurella it appears they may want similar money to Milan would likely take for Maignan and if so it's a no brainer to go for Maignan as he's the only stand-out goalkeeper not already settled at club that wouldn't sell to us.

Yep, if I was a big side and had to sign a goalkeeper from within the PL these are the three I'd be looking at. Probably leaning towards Sanchez given he's the youngest of the three at 24 and I've seen more of him.

Edit: Though also worth noting that if Raya doesn't sign a new contract then he'll be in his final year next summer and likely sold.

 

[Samid]

Can't save, can't use his feet, can't leave the line. How are we starting yet another season with him? Guy is finished.

 

[SydneyRoughDiamond]

He needs subbing off for his own good

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Should have been sold 2 years ago, incompetent club.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Underwhelming so far today

 

[mikeyt]

Can't save, can't use his feet, can't leave the line. How are we starting yet another season with him? Guy is finished.

That's generous. It's not even knee jerk, he's been the biggest problem we've had defensively for years yet everyone puts it on Maguire, Shaw etc. There is one constant and that's his incompetence. He simply must be replaced. Guess that escalates the need for a new GK and not a back up that was mooted.

 

[Based Adnan]

Anyone with a working set of eyes could see De Gea is not a good fit for what ETH asks from a goalkeeper

Why he came in and didn't drop him is a mystery. Could be pressure from the club to play a player on 375k a week or it could be he's bottled dropping a high profile long serving player. Either way, we shouldn't have gone into this season with him as number 1.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Couldnt think of a worse keeper than him, honestly Heaton should be better. He is awful, terrible. One of the thickest players in our squad that doesn't learn, there is no hope with or for him. Get rid please, try to push for Navas.

 

[davidmichael]

Today is another showing for why we should have stuck with Henderson and I get why Henderson is so pissed at the club, De Gea only had shot stopping as his outstanding attribute but that’s been slipping more and more over the past few seasons.

Whilst Henderson isn’t going to be the level De Gea once was what Henderson does have is a modern keepers ability where he’s good with his feet, will come from his line even as a sweeper keeper if needed, talks to his defence and will at least attempt to organise them.

I’d rather have a good all round modern keeper than a great shot stopper who can’t do anything else and is only going to decline further, thank feck De Gea is out of contract at the end of the season as we can finally get with the fecking times and have a modern keeper even if as with everything else we’re 5 years behind everyone else.

 

[Jacob]

Underwhelming so far today

You should become a politician. Call it as it is, he couldn't be worse.

 

[RyRy11]

Can’t wait to get rid

 

[Giant Midget]

1) Doesn’t stop the ball going across the box against

2) Deflects the shot for the rebound tap-in

3) Don’t even need to say anything

4) Passes it straight to a marked player

All four goals conceded this season would have been avoided with a competent goalkeeper.

 

[Idxomer]

Signing a centre-back before a goalkeeper was incredibly dumb, De Ge should've one of the first players out of the door.

 

[Lentwood]

Said it before and will say it again - the worst GK in the league. His last good season was Jose's 2nd season...since then he's been god-awful