I believe we should replace De Gea and bring a DM before spending any more money on another CB and see how it goes we might be in for pleasant surprise.
Why is everyone so certain that DDG will be a starter under ETH?
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Both Henderson and Heaton are better overall keepers than De Gea.
De Gea's excellent saves also reflect how crap our midfield and defence is.
Having said that I am surprised that our coaching staff had not addressed the issues De Gea has had with distribution and kicking for example.
De Gea's excellent saves also reflect how crap our midfield and defence is.
Having said that I am surprised that our coaching staff had not addressed the issues De Gea has had with distribution and kicking for example.
The problem is even if we sign a world class CB, that still won't change the defensive organization.
DDG can only play in a team that prefers a deeper line. In a high line the attacking he is going to be exposed like a deer in headlights. Not even prime VVD would help our defense if our keeper is glued to the line when a ball is floated into the box.
I'm certain he'll be a starter because I don't see Henderson being better than him and signing a new keeper has to be a long way down the list of priorities for this summer. Sure, offers for De Gea could change things but I doubt we'll get any interesting ones.
I don't think ETH will be going for 100% conversion of the team into his ideal philosophy from day 1, he'll accept a few players that aren't ideal for his system and work around them for the first year. At least that would be a pragmatic approach to a job that's going to take at least 2-3 windows to fix fully.
I don't think ETH will be going for 100% conversion of the team into his ideal philosophy from day 1, he'll accept a few players that aren't ideal for his system and work around them for the first year. At least that would be a pragmatic approach to a job that's going to take at least 2-3 windows to fix fully.
Agreed.
De Gea is almost an excuse for our defenders.
On one level De Gea doesn't come off his line or tries to deal with crosses and free kicks. The defenders get the benefit of the doubt.
At the same time De Gea's world class reflex ability almost hides our defenders mistakes more than it should.
I just think finding a good overall goalkeeper will stop the rest of the team being a bunch of kids at the play ground.
They will have no excuse to not play further up the pitch due to having a more overall goalkeeper whilst at the same time they won't have a world class reflex based goalkeeper to hide defenders mistakes which allows all these shots to come in the first place.
It just feels like something that could really improve our team overall more than it meets the eyes.
On one level De Gea doesn't come off his line or tries to deal with crosses and free kicks. The defenders get the benefit of the doubt.
At the same time De Gea's world class reflex ability almost hides our defenders mistakes more than it should.
I just think finding a good overall goalkeeper will stop the rest of the team being a bunch of kids at the play ground.
They will have no excuse to not play further up the pitch due to having a more overall goalkeeper whilst at the same time they won't have a world class reflex based goalkeeper to hide defenders mistakes which allows all these shots to come in the first place.
It just feels like something that could really improve our team overall more than it meets the eyes.
De Gea being a great shot stopper is one myth fanboys have been propagating for a long time.
Don't just stop at the spectacular saves he makes. Look at the kind of goals he conceded. And he conceded plenty of goals that keepers like Ederson, and Mendy would not concede.
I am not even discussing his refusal to command the box or sweep.
Don't just stop at the spectacular saves he makes. Look at the kind of goals he conceded. And he conceded plenty of goals that keepers like Ederson, and Mendy would not concede.
I am not even discussing his refusal to command the box or sweep.
He may not be a 'starter' for the reasons you have given, but on his salary he is going nowhere... very likely to become the most costly No.2 keeper in the world.
The problem is that ever since DDG made his debut, by accident the defense turned to shit.
I remember how Rio and Vida who looked solid, yet on the decline turned into the chuckle brothers. We've had so many defenders since then and I'm struggling to think of a good one. Maybe Smalling/Blind in that LVG season?
The point is because DDG sucks at the basics this puts extra pressure on the defense. Even the most world class defenders will still have to second guess if DDG will claim the ball or not, where as an average keeper would 100% of the time.
Even for a brief period last year that Henderson was in goal our defense looked less shaky. Sure, Dean didn't cover himself with glory, but people forget that if not for Covid he would have been our No.1 at the start of the season.
Nah, he's easily a better shot-stopper than either of them and both concede an alarming number of soft goals every season.
The point of the post wasnt the compilation but what Tuanzebe said , who has trained and played with both players.
And you only find out about how good someone's distribution is when they play under a coach who expects the keeper to be the 11th outfield player.
That's the way I see. At least for 1 season he will be benched, but likely go down the pecking order as ETH will prefer more ball playing GKs. Just look at his Ajax roster for comparison.
I was going to do this thread a couple of weeks ago. Pundits too always speak like De Gea is the one “given” for next season. But he seems almost opposite of what ETH looks for in GKs
Simple answer I guess is that we need so many players that GK is far from the priority
Simple answer I guess is that we need so many players that GK is far from the priority
Because he’s our best keeper and it’s not even close
That's been a key mistake of United's for years though.
The team should be greater than the sum of its parts.
Which doesn't mean going out and buying good players in every position in the hope they will somehow gel. Or keeping players that excel in some areas but don't make the team better.
Not once has a manager since Ferguson come in with an overriding philosophy of the style of how they want to team to play and then had time to bring in the players to fulfil that.
Ten Hag might be given that opportunity. But what if he decides De Gea, Ronaldo and Bruno aren't the right players to achieve what he wants? Will the club back him?
It's far more likely that he comes in with a certain philosophy and then is told that he needs to somehow magic the players you have already to fit within that!
So you dilute any impact he can have by backing the players that have already been given long contracts, on ridiculous wages. Then he doesn't get the results, he's under pressure and you rinse and repeat what's been done post-Fergie. A 'new direction' every few years that just leaves you going round in circles.
Isn't it because we feel other areas on the pitch are a priority? We have outfield players who have no right to be playing at the club.
That in my eyes is more important to fix over a keeper who has given us his best years and has dug us out of bad spells at times. When has Pogba done that?
That in my eyes is more important to fix over a keeper who has given us his best years and has dug us out of bad spells at times. When has Pogba done that?
No player decide to do whatever they want. It's BS. DeGea may prefer to stay on his line but when he is instructed to come out he will come out. If a keeper is weak in the air, he puts cover on the line for corners.
You can put Ederson in goal but Maguire is not going to be quicker. Our problems start not in defense but in front of it. The space behind our CB is still going to be there because Maguire is still going to be slow.
DeGea reminds me of Heinz Stuy. He was weak in his handling but a very good shot stopper. It didn't bother Ajax that he was their no 1 keeper for a long time.
You can put Ederson in goal but Maguire is not going to be quicker. Our problems start not in defense but in front of it. The space behind our CB is still going to be there because Maguire is still going to be slow.
DeGea reminds me of Heinz Stuy. He was weak in his handling but a very good shot stopper. It didn't bother Ajax that he was their no 1 keeper for a long time.
I think you've got that one spot on!However, remember Pep started life at City by shaking-up Joe Hart's world!!
The thing is when it comes to other areas of the pitch you can reshuffle players or change formations to mask/cover for someones deficiencies. You can't do the same for the GK without compromising the team's structure.
It's a weird one - as De Gea seems to command a lot of respect from his fellow professionals.
Fans completely the opposite because sweeper keepers are in fashion and he ain't one.
I think we could upgrade on De Gea, certainly not from within, and it certainly has no impact until there are one or two new midfielders at the other side of the defence too. It's also a futile change unless the left-centre back is permanently changed too imo. That fella has blood on his hands.
Fans completely the opposite because sweeper keepers are in fashion and he ain't one.
I think we could upgrade on De Gea, certainly not from within, and it certainly has no impact until there are one or two new midfielders at the other side of the defence too. It's also a futile change unless the left-centre back is permanently changed too imo. That fella has blood on his hands.
cool, please call ETH and let him know that he won't be able to implement HIS philosophy if he comes in and thinks DDG is good enough to play for us. Some of you think you're sooo smart that you don't even realize how stupid some of the stuff you guys write reads.
Why do we think Goalkeeper is not a priority at United? Our defence seems shaky because De Gea's refusal to come out of his line makes it so.
De Gea is the reason why we concede so many goals.
Hmm. There's absolutely no way he was constantly hoofing the ball upfield to an opponent in LvG's time. It helped that much of the time he had Blind in front of him, who was one of our few defenders to actually want the ball!
Whatever, he's six or seven years older now, so is likely to be even less able to learn new stuff than back then. Nevertheless, it should be possible for ETH to tell him not to hoof it long, and drop him if he continues to do so.
When was the last time you saw DDG come for a cross?
When did he sweep a long ball?
When did he start a counter-attack?
When did he not give the ball away under light pressure?
He creates chances for our opposition with his subpar goalkeeping, it's quite baffling that people haven't caught on yet.
He's stealing a wage at United at the moment, all because he's good at stopping shots on his line.
When did he sweep a long ball?
When did he start a counter-attack?
When did he not give the ball away under light pressure?
He creates chances for our opposition with his subpar goalkeeping, it's quite baffling that people haven't caught on yet.
He's stealing a wage at United at the moment, all because he's good at stopping shots on his line.
Wouldn't be totally shocked if we brought a new keeper, I just reckon there are higher priorities. Henderson probably does suit what he would like a bit more but still not hugely.
I had that Hart thing in mind
However, remember Pep started life at City by shaking-up Joe Hart's world!!
However, I feel that if Pep inherited a squad like United’s, with about 6 or 7 first team outfield players all but certain to leave, he’d have been forced to delay that
Can't wait for this new keeper who does all the defending for the team
He excels in one area, statistically is the second best in the league at it, but is amongst the worst in the division at the other critical aspects of his role. While some of our other players have major flaws in their game, how many are literally the worst in the league in probably 3 of the 5 main parts of their job?
Our defensive game has been bang average since 2012. Center backs have come and gone, fullbacks, midfielders, coaches, managers have all come and gone, but one man has been the constant all these years. The year we decide to address the elephant in the room, might be the year we have a chance.
If ETH is still starting De Gea 2 years from now I am quite certain that the reason why will be because other people in key roles at the club failed to do their job properly in securing a suitable GK target for him, or because De Gea was tied down to a new deal for business asset reasons rather than football reasons and forced on the manager. If you know anything about ETH as a manager you would realise that there is no way he would choose De Gea as a gk suitable for his system if he had the choice. De Gea is rock bottom terrible at the things ETH is going to demand of him in his system. Coaching isn't going to fix that, ETH isn't a miracle worker. It is like trying to coach AWB to do what TAA does.
This!! Where do people get this idea that DeGea is somehow holding this team back? He stays rooted to his line... and has kept us almost single-handedly the past few seasons. 4 years the POTY for us, but the OP wants us to ditch him in favor of some unnamed super keeper we don't have, and who is low on the priority list anyway.
Its because eventhough De Gea might not be Ten Hag's ideal keeper, there are so many holes in the squad that shipping De Gea is way at the bottom of the list. Being fair De Gea is a better keeper than Henderson, so he wont take De Gea's place either.
Other factor to consider is De Gea is on astronomical wages, he's realistically unsellable so he wont be easy to ship out either.
Other factor to consider is De Gea is on astronomical wages, he's realistically unsellable so he wont be easy to ship out either.
Wells that it then, isn't it? If he comes in and says DDG is fine, its the club forcing him to like him. So in a nutshell, you guys can not be wrong in any circumstance. But wait, didn't you guys also say (plus direct quotes from him) that its either his way or the highway? If De Gea really is "rock bottom terrible" then ETH will play Henderson or Heaton instead of him/get a new GK. Simple as that. You guys do not get to use the "club let him down" out when he inevitably comes in and says "DDG is actually a world class shot stopper, we have other pressing needs, we go with David." You lot claim to know the manager better than himself, its incredible.
He may do that initially at the start due to other problems having to be prioritised. However, after 1 year that's enough time to identify a more suitable GK and get them in. Let me make it as simple as possible. If ETH was starting with a blank slate and he was compiling a list of suitable GK targets for his system, De Gea would be nowhere near his list. He is simply shit at the things that ETH prioritises in a GK.
That's the thing here, we don't need an "unnamed super keeper", an incredibly average goalkeeper across the board would be an improvement on De Gea, because he genuinely is that bad in every area other than shot-stopping.
And as for where people get the idea he's holding the team back - open your eyes and it is right in front of you. He quite literally holds the team back with his refusal to leave his line in a team that tries to play with a high line. We play a high line and he's dealt with 9 crosses (out of 290 faced - 3.1%) and swept behind the defence 8 times all season. These are embarrassingly bad numbers and show how the team cannot play the high line in front of him.
For reference, despite having much better defenses in front of them than ours, Allissons numbers are 19 from 207 (9.2%) and 54 sweeps behind the defenders and Edersons numbers are 14 from 164 (8.5%) and 34 sweeps behind the defenders. Funnily enough they both complete 16% and 20% of their long passes than De Gea as well.
So yeah, difficult to see how De Gea is a problem really.
Because Henderson is going to leave, and we won't be replacing him with a proven keeper. We have too many areas to fix, so we will just have to make do with DDG.
The key issue with De Gea isn't whether he plays next season, it's what happens with his contract.
As is we have the option of extending his current contract as far as June 2024. That would allow us to either sell him next summer with one year remaining or allow him to leave on a free two summers from now. To my mind that provides us with a clear built-in timetable for replacing him.
The worry would be if we see a continuation of the previous failed policy of handing out contracts "to protect value" and tie ourselves to De Gea beyond that. Or, worse again, genuinely don't see an issue with sticking with him longer term. Because there's zero reason for him to still be our #1 by the time his current contract comes to an end.
As is we have the option of extending his current contract as far as June 2024. That would allow us to either sell him next summer with one year remaining or allow him to leave on a free two summers from now. To my mind that provides us with a clear built-in timetable for replacing him.
The worry would be if we see a continuation of the previous failed policy of handing out contracts "to protect value" and tie ourselves to De Gea beyond that. Or, worse again, genuinely don't see an issue with sticking with him longer term. Because there's zero reason for him to still be our #1 by the time his current contract comes to an end.
Considering the extension is likely to be on the same money, I don't see how even that will be justifiable.
Im not... considering ETH reportedly wanted Henderson id say he has just as good a chance.
Only certain goalkeepers can make the saves that he does.if Heaton was a better gk then he’d be starting games at a top club. Allison also makes world class saves, does that mean there defence is bad? Agree with the last bit though, his distribution is bad.