Says someone who never saw RvN play
Why is Ruud van Nistelrooy so disrespected?
- Thread starter adexkola
- Start date
RVN was primarily a poacher in his latter years after his half season injury and relied more on this movement to score goals and it did hamper the team in those latter years because of the same thing that happened with CR7 this season.
As soon as Rooney or CR7 picked up the ball, their first instinct was to try and find him in the box. It made us very predicable and stagnant. When Saha with his mobility was introduced, it opened up more space for Rooney and CR7 to operate it and they became more effective. Hence why SAF picked Saha to start the Carling cup final over RVN, which was the beggning of the end of his time here. The most effective front 4 we had at that time was Saha, Rooney. CR7 and Giggs. They were so interchangeable and fluid, it was a joy to watch.
Funny enough, the same thing happened this year with CR7 with all our wide players looking for him, even though he was not in the best position and even worse, not as effective in poaching as RVN was in those latter years.
That is the RVN they are talking about, not the one who skinned Campbell ran 30 yards and lifted the ball over Lehman or the one who run half the pitch with the ball against Fulham and scored.
As soon as Rooney or CR7 picked up the ball, their first instinct was to try and find him in the box. It made us very predicable and stagnant. When Saha with his mobility was introduced, it opened up more space for Rooney and CR7 to operate it and they became more effective. Hence why SAF picked Saha to start the Carling cup final over RVN, which was the beggning of the end of his time here. The most effective front 4 we had at that time was Saha, Rooney. CR7 and Giggs. They were so interchangeable and fluid, it was a joy to watch.
Funny enough, the same thing happened this year with CR7 with all our wide players looking for him, even though he was not in the best position and even worse, not as effective in poaching as RVN was in those latter years.
That is the RVN they are talking about, not the one who skinned Campbell ran 30 yards and lifted the ball over Lehman or the one who run half the pitch with the ball against Fulham and scored.
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Fair, I think at the time it was less fans being annoyed when he left and more being worried about and then elated about defying the whole "where are the goals going to come from" thing
I've been a season ticket holder since 2001 you weirdo.
Well done you, so I was probably going to OT before you were even born
Not sure what relevance that has. You said I've never seen RVN play, I told you the reason that I have. It wasn't an invite to prove how long you've been a united fan. What a drip.
Talksport debate other day they where having vardy in top 10 premier league strikers ahead of him
Must have short memories, him and Henry where right up there as the best about in the world at that time of them both playing against each other in premier league. Ruud was legit world class, unreal striker.
Be daft money if he was about these days
Rooney was superior to RVN comfortably. - he may have been superior but not comfortably
Outside of being French, Martial and Saha don't play similarly. Saha was a much better finisher. Martial struggles to use his right side and that's an issue that doesn't get held against him nearly enough. He's also nowhere near as good on the ball or in the air. It's a weird comparison
Did he decline during his time at United? I seem to remember him being much more mobile and less poacher like in his first couple of seasons compared with his last.
70.000 people chanting RUUUUD RUUUUD RUUUUD. And He was loved by the suporters. Now we have e new sort of Ruud in the box. WOUT WOUT WOUT
People should really not consider lists like those. For one, I'd could make the case for there being 10 strikers greater than Vardy in the Premier League over the last 10 years. Then consider that this a lone striker era, and before that lots of teams played with 2 strikers.Talksport debate other day they where having vardy in top 10 premier league strikers ahead of him
Must have short memories, him and Henry where right up there as the best about in the world at that time of them both playing against each other in premier league. Ruud was legit world class, unreal striker.
Be daft money if he was about these days
I also notice lists like this try to reduce the amount of praise United as a team or players get due to the sheer amount of dominance. I think they do this in an attempt to make the lists seem more balanced, but they don't really reflect the reality.
It's the same reason why the invincibles were so overhyped despite use before them or Chelsea after them were clearly better and achieved more. The same things goes for the Liverpool 2020 team. City have clearly been the dominant side over the last few years with barely any competition, it's a tad insulting to actually compare them with that 2020 liverpool team. It's a result of having multiple dominant seasons and players imo. A lot of the pundits that make these lists played or supported lesser sides, so always tend to try to generate more hype outside the dominant side, both for their own egos but also for the good of the league.
Was a wonderful striker, but played in a transitional team. Did well at Real Madrid too and won the league there
He's my childhood idol and I agree he's very underrated now. feck anyone who has anything negative to say.
Hell no, they could play together. But I'd never take Rooney over RVN as a number 9.
RVN at number 9 is only taken by Shearer in my opinion in the Premier League.
RVN in a better United team would've won Champions Leagues too.
I'm with you. I won't hear anyone that doesn't put him in the top 2 number 9s in the Premier League era.
Shearer and him. Imagine him playing at Arsenal with Henry on the left wing or a peak Ronaldo at United.
RVN is top drawer.
I don't think it's just Ruud. The reality is a lot of people disregard goal scorers or goal scoring like it is some menial task any tap in merchant can do. As annoying as he is, I've heard people talk about peak Owen as an overrated Chicharito basically.
I don't know what it is. Either its the emergence of all this talk about tactics and statistics among casual fans where some of it goes too far (i.e goalscorers are useless) or just visuals where a False9/Playmaker appears to just do more.
Reality is it's a position your most skilled player plays for a reason in most cases. Pep Guardiola for all his talk about tactics and micromanagement at the end of the day went for a pure goalscorer (Haaland) and was in for a footballer who was a shade of his former self and didn't bother to press because of his goal scoring abilities (Ronaldo).
tl;dr goalscoring is underrated
Aye aye you're on to something here
Van nistelrooy was more than just a goalscorer. He was great at holding up the ball, he was good at bringing others into the game. He would hold the ball up pass it wide or back to the midfield then turn and head for the box no standing on ceremony. Yes he was very selfish but that made him brilliant.
He would have closed defenders and keepers down. I even remember one game vs Chelsea him and Rooney taking turns making sure the ball didn't get the makelele seemed like an instruction from sir Alex.
As a pure centre forward there aren't many better ever.
Anyone who disrespect him clearly never watched him.
He would have closed defenders and keepers down. I even remember one game vs Chelsea him and Rooney taking turns making sure the ball didn't get the makelele seemed like an instruction from sir Alex.
As a pure centre forward there aren't many better ever.
Anyone who disrespect him clearly never watched him.
Same here, the example I always use is Ian Rush, he was a horrible footballer with virtually no skill whatsoever, but he could and did score goals for fun
Today's game was a prime example of how stats are often meaningless, City had 71% possession and scored once, United had 31% and scored 2 goals, at the end of the day those 2 goals are the only things that matter
He came in to the club with other highly regarded strikers still present or fresh in the mind (Yorke, Cole, Sheringham, Solskjaer) and yet rapidly eclipsed them and showed himself to be a tier above. That alone speaks volumes about how good he was.
Add to this that Fergie thought so highly of him that he was willing to abandon his almost religious attachment to 2 up top.
Also, our midfield was a bit gash towards the end of his stay with Beckham leaving at the end of 02/03, Keane on his last legs, Scholes and his eye issues, Kleberson flopping hard, Alan Smith and O'Shea playing more prominence than any one would ever want.
The summer Ruud left coincided with Carricks arrival and I think this is often overlooked in terms of the teams uptick in performance but the acrimonious nature of Ruud's departure seemed to be an easier narrative to explain the transformation that occurred.
Finally, Saha (as electric as he could be) didn't even start 20 league games in 06/07 but the continued blossoming of Ronaldo and Rooney managed to fill the void left by Ruud and ushered in the a new golden era.
Add to this that Fergie thought so highly of him that he was willing to abandon his almost religious attachment to 2 up top.
Also, our midfield was a bit gash towards the end of his stay with Beckham leaving at the end of 02/03, Keane on his last legs, Scholes and his eye issues, Kleberson flopping hard, Alan Smith and O'Shea playing more prominence than any one would ever want.
The summer Ruud left coincided with Carricks arrival and I think this is often overlooked in terms of the teams uptick in performance but the acrimonious nature of Ruud's departure seemed to be an easier narrative to explain the transformation that occurred.
Finally, Saha (as electric as he could be) didn't even start 20 league games in 06/07 but the continued blossoming of Ronaldo and Rooney managed to fill the void left by Ruud and ushered in the a new golden era.
I've never heard a bad word about Ruud from United supporters. Everyone over the age of 30 loves him and most rate him higher than Cole, Yorke and RVP. Some rate him higher than Rooney too.
Really? If he is I've not heard anyone say it.
He was an absolute monster for me. If he has the ball in the area I'd be fully expecting a goal.
Plus when he missed that penalty against Arsenal and the clown Keown jumped all over him he kept his cool and got his perfect revenge with the 49 and out penalty.
God he was such a good finisher.
He was an absolute monster for me. If he has the ball in the area I'd be fully expecting a goal.
Plus when he missed that penalty against Arsenal and the clown Keown jumped all over him he kept his cool and got his perfect revenge with the 49 and out penalty.
God he was such a good finisher.
The thing that was special about Ruud was, his finishing was genuinely elite. It's very rare to see him score and think, "he could have placed it better."
I think he also gets an unfair reputation as some goal hanging poacher. Look at how he scored his goal in Highbury in the title winning season in 02/03. Him and Giggs scored the two goals and if you only knew them by their reputed playing styles, you'd have thought Giggs' goal was Ruud's and vice versa.
I think he also gets an unfair reputation as some goal hanging poacher. Look at how he scored his goal in Highbury in the title winning season in 02/03. Him and Giggs scored the two goals and if you only knew them by their reputed playing styles, you'd have thought Giggs' goal was Ruud's and vice versa.
Loved him, but Ferguson’s revelation he was constantly asking to leave colours my judgement.
Haha, this post gave me serious deja vu. I looked at some old United highlights the other day and I constantly found myself mixing up Ruud and Giggs. Shitty video quality combined with relatively similar hair styles(from a distance) did play a part, but it's easy to forget how explosive and silky Ruud could be. His finishing is legendary but he had a lot more up his sleeve.
My favourite striker of all time. He proved his class again winning the league with Real Madrid as topscorer after he left United.
He's basically the sole reason I became a United fan. Was heartbroken when he left.
He's basically the sole reason I became a United fan. Was heartbroken when he left.
Does RVN get disrespected on here ? To be honest I’ve never seen it if he has but surely they’d be referring to his final season with us rather than at any other time during his United career ?
Outside of his last season RVN was as good as any striker the world whilst at United which is some praise when you look at the strikers around at that time like R9, Henry, Raul, Shevchenko, Eto’o, Trezeguet, Zlatan, Inzaghi and Crespo off the top of my head and you could make a good case that RVN was the best of them all at that time.
I honestly believe that if we had RVN of that time outside of his last season playing for us now we’d be to of the league as he’d have a field day with Fernandes in behind him and the pace from the wings, his ability to hold the ball up and bring others into play whilst being as lethal a finisher as I’ve ever seen is basically all we’re missing right now.
Outside of his last season RVN was as good as any striker the world whilst at United which is some praise when you look at the strikers around at that time like R9, Henry, Raul, Shevchenko, Eto’o, Trezeguet, Zlatan, Inzaghi and Crespo off the top of my head and you could make a good case that RVN was the best of them all at that time.
I honestly believe that if we had RVN of that time outside of his last season playing for us now we’d be to of the league as he’d have a field day with Fernandes in behind him and the pace from the wings, his ability to hold the ball up and bring others into play whilst being as lethal a finisher as I’ve ever seen is basically all we’re missing right now.
As a number 9?
Posted this in another thread, but it fits as he stayed for exactly 5 years.
To compare him to Henry at any point is just insulting. I'd even put him comfortably below Vardy, a player that accomplished more or less exactly the same for a smaller club whilst being way more significant.
At the end of the day you're looking at someone that scores 15-16 league goals a season from open play. Would that even be considered good if it was Martial or Rashford nowadays? Think about it.
If you're going to do the Caf-thing of disregarding penalties there's a lot of strikers on the list you could argue were better even as just pure goalscorers.I'll just upload the entire sheet I made and slap a spoiler on it. Added a lot more players, and some early PL-era players too, some solid numbers there as well.
Source: transfermarkt.com --- Note: a lot of manually extracted data so not going to claim its faultless.
To compare him to Henry at any point is just insulting. I'd even put him comfortably below Vardy, a player that accomplished more or less exactly the same for a smaller club whilst being way more significant.
At the end of the day you're looking at someone that scores 15-16 league goals a season from open play. Would that even be considered good if it was Martial or Rashford nowadays? Think about it.
We have had some of the great strikers through the years and Nistelrooy is if not best, close to it.
By who? I consider him the best center forward we had in the Fergie era. Two 40 goal seasons is crazy. Wish he stayed longer.
He was sandwiched between two of our best dynasties so that's where the disrespect or underrating comes from. The Ruud era wasn't as fruitfil trophy wise but he was an amazing centre forward.
Our lack of relative success in 2002-2006 wasn't a fault of Ruud, if anything we just didn't have the defence to be as dominant. If his teams had a peak VDS, Rio, Vidic and Evra we win more.
Our lack of relative success in 2002-2006 wasn't a fault of Ruud, if anything we just didn't have the defence to be as dominant. If his teams had a peak VDS, Rio, Vidic and Evra we win more.
I think some are overrating his hold up and link up play. Watched every minute of his Utd career and I think he was inferior to Cole in those aspects and that it was a problem for the team. It was not that he was incapable of doing it, more that he was so single minded in his desire to score goals that his movement was always towards the goal, was far less willing to drop into deeper areas and provide additional passing options in some phases of the play. That made the team much more predictable.
None of that changes the fact that he was utterly elite as a goalscorer, incredible finisher, easily the best Utd have had in the 40 years I have been watching. He was scoring 40 at a point when totals like that were rare, before the era of hilariously overpowered super teams annihilating records for goals and points. His 2002/03 season was incredible.
However I always felt Utd were far better with a more fluid and varied attack rather than a more rigid style serving one player, as great as he may have been. I think the famous 4-2 at Arsenal showed the way forward beyond RVN, we had Rooney, Ronaldo and Giggs as a interchanging front 3 and it was night and day to the straight lines we fell into with latter RVN.
None of that changes the fact that he was utterly elite as a goalscorer, incredible finisher, easily the best Utd have had in the 40 years I have been watching. He was scoring 40 at a point when totals like that were rare, before the era of hilariously overpowered super teams annihilating records for goals and points. His 2002/03 season was incredible.
However I always felt Utd were far better with a more fluid and varied attack rather than a more rigid style serving one player, as great as he may have been. I think the famous 4-2 at Arsenal showed the way forward beyond RVN, we had Rooney, Ronaldo and Giggs as a interchanging front 3 and it was night and day to the straight lines we fell into with latter RVN.
I loved him so much, first got his copycat shirt and then I ordered original from manutd website.
The only human being I've ever heard of who disrespected Ruud was this guy:
For anyone wondering, his open play league goal numbers by season are actually 19, 17, 19, 3, and 19, the 3 obviously coming in the 2004/05 season that was ruined by injury. That does indeed produce an average of 15-16, if you not only ignore the context of the injury but also commit the error of weighting all five seasons equally when one of them accounted for roughly half as many minutes/appearances as the other four.
I would instead phrase my interpretation of these numbers as "in five years at United, Van Nistelrooy averaged a non-penalty league goal every 158 minutes, which would work out to 21.6 per season - elite goalscoring numbers that are comparable with most top strikers of the Premier League era and likely the best among United players"*.
I had to double-check to confirm this was the same poster who said earlier in the thread that Van Nistelrooy scored 4 CL knockout goals without even bothering to include the number of games. Not sure what's going on here!
*edit: a quick check reveals that he's ahead of Rooney and Van Persie but narrowly behind Ole (153 minutes per non-penalty-goal - what a legend). Cole (who deserves massive respect for amassing 187 Prem goals without a single penalty) is behind Ruud across his entire career but is most likely ahead if you exclude his post-United spells where he was past his best - can't be arsed to pull the numbers. As anyone would know without needing to read my post or the spreadsheet above, Van Nistelrooy was an elite goalscorer even without the penalty stat-padding.
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Totally agree.
Nope.
Anyway, why are penalties discounted? They happen and are a vital part to a season for every club. Yes a penalty taker has an advantage to add to their tally. But they are THE penalty taker for a reason. Can you imagine the stones It takes to walk up and convert a spot kick? It’s a special talent and should never be used as a negative to any goal scorer