Why is there an English tax?

[0le]

It's a myth.

There isn't an 'English Tax'; there is a 'Premier League Player Tax'. Why? Because Premier League clubs are rich and don't need to sell. Even that is starting to fade away now, as European clubs have caught on that Premier League clubs are rich and are raising their prices.

Forbes top 10 clubs by value - 6/10 are English. (Top 20 - 9 of them are English clubs, 3 Spanish, 3 German, 4 Italian, and 1 French) - It shows how financially dominant the Premier League is.

Rank	Team	Country	Value in millions	% change on year	Debt as % of value	Revenue ($M)
1	Real Madrid	Spain	4,231	4	6	796
2	Barcelona	Spain	4,205	-1	8	815
3	Manchester United	England	3,983	-8	19	795
4	Bayern Munich	Germany	3,024	-1	0	751
5	Manchester City	England	2,688	9	0	678
6	Chelsea	England	2,576	25	0	597
7	Arsenal	England	2,267	1	11	520
8	Liverpool	England	2,183	12	3	613
9	Tottenham Hotspur	England	1,624	31	37	511
10	Juventus	Italy	1,512	3	9	480

Most expensive Premier League signings between Premier League clubs. The majority of the top signings are not English.

Lukaku, Maguire, Van Dijk, Mahrez, Sterling, Sigurdsson etc.

I agree.

 

[Bastian]

I find it a little bit funny that the OP is called RashyforPM, asking why English players are so enormously overhyped. Anyhow, I think it also goes for foreign players already bedded in in the Premier League. Everyone knows everyone has (had) piles of money, so they milk them. And when clubs see United spending 45m on AWB and 80/85m on Maguire, it's the goldrush.

 

[Jibbs]

There definitely is an English tax... where on earth would a young inexperienced RB like AWB will sell for 50m?

 

[Dante]

There definitely is an English tax... where on earth would a young inexperienced RB like AWB will sell for 50m?

The same club wanted £80m for Zaha. It's obvious there's even more of an Ivory Coast tax. If you adjust for inflation, Drogba would cost £116m in today's money.

 

[Ish]

Demand and supply. Clubs have money and don’t want or need to sell, unless in the rare occasion the player or his contract situation forces their hand.

 

[Skills]

The PL clubs have too much money thanks to the charity TV deal. If the likes of United get that fixed, the prices will come back in line.

 

[Andycoleno9]

It's a myth.

There isn't an 'English Tax'; there is a 'Premier League Player Tax'. Why? Because Premier League clubs are rich and don't need to sell. Even that is starting to fade away now, as European clubs have caught on that Premier League clubs are rich and are raising their prices.

Forbes top 10 clubs by value - 6/10 are English. (Top 20 - 9 of them are English clubs, 3 Spanish, 3 German, 4 Italian, and 1 French) - It shows how financially dominant the Premier League is.

Rank	Team	Country	Value in millions	% change on year	Debt as % of value	Revenue ($M)
1	Real Madrid	Spain	4,231	4	6	796
2	Barcelona	Spain	4,205	-1	8	815
3	Manchester United	England	3,983	-8	19	795
4	Bayern Munich	Germany	3,024	-1	0	751
5	Manchester City	England	2,688	9	0	678
6	Chelsea	England	2,576	25	0	597
7	Arsenal	England	2,267	1	11	520
8	Liverpool	England	2,183	12	3	613
9	Tottenham Hotspur	England	1,624	31	37	511
10	Juventus	Italy	1,512	3	9	480

Most expensive Premier League signings between Premier League clubs. The majority of the top signings are not English.

Lukaku, Maguire, Van Dijk, Mahrez, Sterling, Sigurdsson etc.

Agree in some way. Clubs have money and don't need to sell, that is for sure. But you can't deny that there is tax on tax for PL English player. If player is youngish and is English that raises his price. You really think that Maguire would be 80 mil and AWB 50 if they are not English players?

Nevertheless, only buying clubs are to blame for that PL tax. Huge clubs like top6 clubs in PL have huge scouting network and they should start to look somewhere else except PL.
Or negotiate better. "I give you 25 mil for AWB. No? Ok, bye then." And you buy someone else. All top spenders do that few seasons in a row and prices will be "normal" again.

 

[Sandikan]

England has the best young footballers in the world. If we signed Sancho him and Greenwood would be the modern day Rooney and Ronaldo.

This mentality is engrained in the English, and can be seen in every international tournament going back decades where we're hyped to billyo, yet have only reached even a semi final 3 times in 50 years.

Was it Pep, who when Wilshere was being hyped up, said there were about 20 players of his level in the Barcleona B team or something?

 

[Sandikan]

Agree in some way. Clubs have money and don't need to sell, that is for sure. But you can't deny that there is tax on tax for PL English player. If player is youngish and is English that raises his price. You really think that Maguire would be 80 mil and AWB 50 if they are not English players?

Nevertheless, only buying clubs are to blame for that PL tax. Huge clubs like top6 clubs in PL have huge scouting network and they should start to look somewhere else except PL.
Or negotiate better. "I give you 25 mil for AWB. No? Ok, bye then." And you buy someone else. All top spenders do that few seasons in a row and prices will be "normal" again.

This relies on all clubs keeping to the same code though.

And they won't, as they'll take any advantage they can.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Because of the homegrown quota in the league.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

This mentality is engrained in the English, and can be seen in every international tournament going back decades where we're hyped to billyo, yet have only reached even a semi final 3 times in 50 years.

Was it Pep, who when Wilshere was being hyped up, said there were about 20 players of his level in the Barcleona B team or something?

I remember that Pep quote. People thought he was taking the piss but that Barca B team had the likes of Thiago, Sergi Roberto & Rafinha so he was probably being serious in hindsight.

 

[Sandikan]

I remember that Pep quote. People thought he was taking the piss but that Barca B team had the likes of Thiago, Sergi Roberto & Rafinha so he was probably being serious in hindsight.

People got lured into the Wilshere bandwagon as his style of play was unusual for an English player.

Cleverley for a while seemed to have a bit of this about him, but then faded to an average top flight player.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Because of the homegrown quota in the league.

Sarcasm?

 

[roonster09]

Sarcasm?

Why? It's also a factor. City had around 4 slots left because they didn't have enough HG players few years back.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Why? It's also a factor. City had around 4 slots left because they didn't have enough HG players few years back.

City needed to buy whole new squad back then. Other clubs (like us and Liverpool for example) have good foundation. You need only 8 HG players. It is easy to have that without paying top prices.

 

[roonster09]

City needed to buy whole new squad back then. Other clubs (like us and Liverpool for example) have good foundation. You need only 8 HG players. It is easy to have that without paying top prices.

It's not about specific club, it's a topic on why they cost more.

PL clubs are rich, so it takes more money to buy from them as just retaining PL status gives them 100+ million every year. When it comes to English players, they also add to HG quota, one of the reason why City signed bunch of players like Sinclair few years ago.

 

[Untd55]

Agree in some way. Clubs have money and don't need to sell, that is for sure. But you can't deny that there is tax on tax for PL English player. If player is youngish and is English that raises his price. You really think that Maguire would be 80 mil and AWB 50 if they are not English players?

Nevertheless, only buying clubs are to blame for that PL tax. Huge clubs like top6 clubs in PL have huge scouting network and they should start to look somewhere else except PL.
Or negotiate better. "I give you 25 mil for AWB. No? Ok, bye then." And you buy someone else. All top spenders do that few seasons in a row and prices will be "normal" again.

If the club wants to keep the player, then yes, you will have to pay a lot of money regardless of whether their English or not. Premier League clubs have the financial power to refuse to sell a player. You also have to consider there is far more competition in the league. In the Bundesliga, nobody can challenge Bayern Munich financially when bidding for players or contract wages, but in the Premier League there are a lot of clubs that can pay the transfer fee wanted and the wages.

I don't know what his contract situation is, but a player like Ndidi will not be sold by Leicester for anything less than £70m-£80m.

However, buying elsewhere does not guarantee lower transfer fees. Look at Felix (€126m), Dembele (€105m + €45m add ons), and Jovic (€70m). I mean, those players did not do much before getting those transfers. The only choice is to buy relatively unknown players and hope they come good or stealing someone from a youth team. But, that has its own risk.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

The fact that Jack Grealish, a player who has never finished higher than 17th in the top flight in his professional career, would cost more than Thiago & Van de Beek combined, is clear proof of the English tax.

If Villa become a steady midtable club, Grealish is in real danger of becoming Wilf Zaha 2.0 & getting priced out of a move, essentially wasting his career.

 

[flappyjay]

The fact that Jack Grealish, a player who has never finished higher than 17th in the top flight in his professional career, would cost more than Thiago & Van de Beek combined, is clear proof of the English tax.

If Villa become a steady midtable club, Grealish is in real danger of becoming Wilf Zaha 2.0 & getting priced out of a move, essentially wasting his career.

If he has any plans on moving to a top 6 team he should refuse any contract extensions. Maddison extended his and if he ever tries to leave he might find it very difficult to leave. The league and the midtable teams will benefit though.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Part of the issue is the home grown rules. You need some good English players to meet the quota.

 

[Matriac]

The fact that Jack Grealish, a player who has never finished higher than 17th in the top flight in his professional career, would cost more than Thiago & Van de Beek combined, is clear proof of the English tax.

If Villa become a steady midtable club, Grealish is in real danger of becoming Wilf Zaha 2.0 & getting priced out of a move, essentially wasting his career.

You'll find the gold at the bottom of the barrel.

I mean, I still agree with you to some extent. But Ajax have always sold their players for fair prices. Heck a year ago we were all "surprised" that De Ligt went for less than Maguire. They put in their service and Ajax won't stand in their way if a reasonable fee materializes.
Thiago is only 30m because he has less than a year on his contract, made it clear he doesn't wanna sign another, and Bayern doesn't wanna lose him on a free, especially when the player would prefer to move now.

That said, of course Grealish isn't a £80m player, but he's much more important to his team than those two others are to theirs. Can't blame AV for starting high. At the same time I don't think people would react too much if he went for £50m. Maybe we can make it 60-70m so they don't lose face so much, if they take one or two of our players at the value of 20m each where we would get 10m for them sold to others.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Part of the issue is the home grown rules. You need some good English players to meet the quota.

How do City get around that? Sterling, Walker, Stones, Foden. That’s 4, you need 8 don’t you?

 

[Zen]

How do City get around that? Sterling, Walker, Stones, Foden. That’s 4, you need 8 don’t you?

Not to go all FM - but I had this issue when I went them once on FM. I could only register like 21 players in the end.

The tax is there because the money is overwhelmingly there. England isn't as top heavy as the rest in terms of mega money. It still is, but mid table in the Prem are richer than their counterparts elsewhere mostly.

 

[GazTheLegend]

There is one and only one reason (and it's not been highlighted enough in this thread and even the media who SHOULD know better don't ever seen to mention this)

And that is that you can only register a squad of 25 players for the premier League.

I believe of those players, 8 of which must come from England.

Any player under 18 does not count towards these numbers, however 4 players must be home grown at your club - otherwise you can only register a maximum of 17 players and leave 8 spaces in your squad.

Thusly any 'good' English player is worth more as you are basically getting a free space for a 'better" foreigner

So loads of clubs (City are a great example) will buy an English 3rd choice goalkeeper, third choice centre backs, and third choice full backs simply for squad depth - but there is only a finite amount of decent English players, supply and demand and clubs prefer to keep anyone with talent as it's more lucrative staying in the premier League than selling a player for any money.

 

[staubsauger]

How do City get around that? Sterling, Walker, Stones, Foden. That’s 4, you need 8 don’t you?

They signed Carson on deadline day, didn't they? From what I can tell they likely registered some youth players like Doyle to fill the other three spots.

 

[GazTheLegend]

How do City get around that? Sterling, Walker, Stones, Foden. That’s 4, you need 8 don’t you?

No. You only need 4 home grown but 8 English players

 

[Josep Dowling]

How do City get around that? Sterling, Walker, Stones, Foden. That’s 4, you need 8 don’t you?

But that is exactly why Spurs and City have English 3rd keepers to meet the quota. You don’t want to have too many poor quality English players.

 

[flappyjay]

How do City get around that? Sterling, Walker, Stones, Foden. That’s 4, you need 8 don’t you?

Scott Carson and now they have Ake too who qualifies.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

No. You only need 4 home grown but 8 English players

That’s what I mean, who are their 8 British players? I can only count 5, Sterling, Walker, Stones, Foden, Carson.

 

[flappyjay]

No. You only need 4 home grown but 8 English players

The Premier League proposed a maximum of 17 non-"homegrown" players in each club squad, and the squad size is a maximum of 25. This means that in a full squad of 25 players, there must be at least eight homegrown players.

They don't have to be English.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

The Premier League proposed a maximum of 17 non-"homegrown" players in each club squad, and the squad size is a maximum of 25. This means that in a full squad of 25 players, there must be at least eight homegrown players.

They don't have to be English.

Ah yes that’s right. If I’m not mistaken I think Pogba counts as homegrown for us. As did Lukaku.

I’m guessing City just have to register a smaller squad, because they don’t have 8 players who could be considered homegrown, even including Ake. Probably explains why they were after Maguire as their only CB target last summer & ended up getting no-one.

 

[Revan]

No. You only need 4 home grown but 8 English players

No. The only rule is that you cannot have more than 17 non-homegrown players, which means that if your squad is full (25 senior players), you must have at least 8 homegrown players (having spent at east three years between ages of 16 and 21 in England's football teams). There is no difference if the player is English or not, Pogba count as much as Rashford.

With regard to the main topic, there is not such a thing as an English tax. It is more an EPL tax, and the reason is simple, the clubs are loaded, and do not need to sell.

 

[Matriac]

There's no rule about English players I believe. But you can only have 17 non-homegrown, and a squad of maximum 25.

To be considered homegrown you need to have spent 3 years at any English club before you turn 21. Thus Foden doesn't count yet either, he's in the U21 Squad that can be used however they see fit.

This was City's Squad last season, * indicates homegrown. They only had 23 out of the 25 they could in the above 21 squad.

Aguero Del Castillo, Sergio
Bravo Munoz, Claudio Andres
Carson, Scott Paul*
Cavaco Cancelo, Joao Pedro
De Bruyne, Kevin
Esmoris Tasende, Jose Angel*
Fernando De Jesus, Gabriel
Garcia Serrano, Aleix*
Gundogan, Ilkay
Hernandez Cascante, Rodrigo
Jimenez Silva, David Josue
Laporte, Aymeric Jean Loius Gerard Alphonse
Luiz Roza, Fernando
Mahrez, Riyad
Mendy, Benjamin
Mota Veiga De Carvalho E Silva, Bernardo
Otamendi, Nicolas
Sane, Leroy
Santana de Moraes, Ederson
Sterling, Raheem Shaquille*
Stones, John*
Walker, Kyle Andrew*
Zinchenko, Oleksandr

 

[flappyjay]

That’s what I mean, who are their 8 British players? I can only count 5, Sterling, Walker, Stones, Foden, Carson.

Just checked, they didn't register 25 players in the squad last season

 

[Class of 63]

City's 8 English/Homegrown:

Carson
Walker
Ake
Stones
Garcia
Sterling
Foden
Doyle

 

[flappyjay]

That said, of course Grealish isn't a £80m player, but he's much more important to his team than those two others are to theirs. Can't blame AV for starting high. At the same time I don't think people would react too much if he went for £50m. Maybe we can make it 60-70m so they don't lose face so much, if they take one or two of our players at the value of 20m each where

True.The likes of Zaha and Grealish are the difference between staying up and getting relegated. Keeping hold of these players is more financially rewarding in a sense.

 

[flappyjay]

City's 8 English/Homegrown:

Carson
Walker
Ake
Stones
Garcia
Sterling
Foden
Doyle

U21's don't count

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

The homegrown rule is silly. Teams pick top players from other countries anyway and put english players on the bench if not good enough.
Imagine if they had a white player rule or stuff like that. Everyone would be against it, but discriminate by nation is fine.
I guess with Brexit things change though.

 

[Matriac]

City's 8 English/Homegrown:

Carson
Walker
Ake
Stones
Garcia
Sterling
Foden
Doyle

Last season they had only 6 homegrown, and it was:
Carson, Scott Paul
Esmoris Tasende, Jose Angel
Garcia Serrano, Aleix
Sterling, Raheem Shaquille
Stones, John
Walker, Kyle Andrew

 

[flappyjay]

Ah yes that’s right. If I’m not mistaken I think Pogba counts as homegrown for us. As did Lukaku.

I’m guessing City just have to register a smaller squad, because they don’t have 8 players who could be considered homegrown, even including Ake. Probably explains why they were after Maguire as their only CB target last summer & ended up getting no-one.

It makes sense now, also the reason why they are holding on to Carson so much.