Fact is we spent too much on shite players such as Lukaku, Sanchez, Fred etc so spending doesn’t necessarily brings success, at least in our case.
Why is Woodward not spending more?
- Thread starter sammsky1
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Thanks for this. Nice to see someone trying to dig into the details of the financial situation. Feels like a lot of folks think of transfer money in isolation, or in simplistic terms like, “got this much for Lukaku so that cash goes in in the big transfer budget envelope to be spent on someone else.”
I’m not saying there wasn’t a need for other players, just that the financial realities are a lot more complex than often considered.
I'm not contradicting what happened, but it does show that we had no strategy or the profile of player we wanted to sign, we got interested because a big name was offered and previously we had no intention of going after a second striker, the same for Eriksen. We have to control our transfer and we cannot let other clubs drive it for us.
We'd been linked with strikers all Summer, Dembele early on, and then again towards the end, the lad that went to West Ham Haller and a few others whose names escape me, so we were obviously on the lookout for one even if it wasn't a priority, and i'm guessing we didn't expect anybody to get close to what we wanted for Lukaku, I fully expect us to go for the latest must have from South America in January if we're struggling for goals in the first half of the season.
Hear this out.
We want the Glazer out because they only spend 150m a window.
We want the Glazer out because they only spend 150m a window.
The forum is a joke this morning. Everybody complaining about lack of spending. Just look at the stats for the last 5 years. We've blown most European clubs out of the water and wasted ridiculous amounts of cash on non performing players, managers and coaches.
It's about time we hit the reset button and took a more sensible approach to team building which is what Ole will try and do.
Stop blaming the Glazers and Woodward and instil some positivity into the current bunch of players we have.
Stop following the anti united media circus that is permanently spinning a negative agenda.
It's about time we hit the reset button and took a more sensible approach to team building which is what Ole will try and do.
Stop blaming the Glazers and Woodward and instil some positivity into the current bunch of players we have.
Stop following the anti united media circus that is permanently spinning a negative agenda.
I for one would welcome our new saudi overlords ... I can forgive a bit of totalitarianism is they splaff a billion on mpabbe, neymar etc
On a serious note the ownership of united is i believe spit 6 ways (so about 16.66%) between 6 of Malcolm Glazers Children...
The club was given an approx value of $3.8BN with a debt ratio of 19% so around $722m though i believe the majority of that debt is in $ and given the nosedive in the value of the £ i suspect the debt to value ratio has therefore jumped up to more like 25% now.
Anyway that still means that each kid is likley to get around $400m after paying off debt once the club is sold... I guess with 6 equal votes you really need 4 of the kids committed to growing the club (investing) to carry the votes at board level.
On that basis I would be shocked if there wasn't at least a few of the now owners who would rather have the cash
A good window ? How have you come to that conclusion the team wasn't good enough with Herrera we needed two central midfielders and a striker. What are all of you expecting? Rashford to turn into prime Raul overnight...
This is not targeted at you but many such posts that follow the same logic: we have spent a lot over 5 years without much success so lets change that by going for a more curtailed prudent approach.
The obvious flaw in the argument is that everyone agrees that we are behind our rivals in terms of squad quality. So how can the solution to improving the squad quality be that we don’t add substantially to it? Yes, we can add to the squad by promoting from within but you cannot overnight expect a young player to suddenly start playing most of PL matches and create impact. The process of introduction has to be gradual and shouldn’t add undue pressure on the youngsters.
So the question is, what do we do in the mean time? Should we lower our expectations till the youngsters fulfil their potential? Ironically, people who want to go with a sensible approach are not willing to compromise on the expectations - they still crave for Top 4 as the minimum.
So to meet the expectations, what are the other realistic solutions? An argument can be made to get more out of what we currently have. While that is definitely what we should aim to do, there is a ceiling there which has been created because of the poor purchases we have made over the last 5 years
The answer, however unpalatable, is that we need to invest more but while doing so, improve the quality of selection and decision making. The first step to do that is to get qualified people who can spot the right players making the decisions on future investment. Once the right people and structure are in place, the board needs to back them with the investment that is required to fill the squad gaps. Unfortunately we have not seen any measures by the club and Ed to improve the decision making machinery. So, at the end of all this we are left with nothing but to blame Glazers and Ed for putting us in this situation
I can't understand how Woodward still has a job. He makes the same mistakes over and over again. He might be good at getting a sponsor but the club have gone downhill since he has been in charge.
We aren't going to start making huge money all of a sudden when we still play huge wages and can't make the champions league anymore.
We need to spend money to make money. Being out of the CL will cost huge money.
We are a huge outlay at 4bn. However if someone could buy us and square the debt then the power we could have in the transfer market would be insane.
I dont hold much hope for the sale though, the Glazers are in this long term. They aren't paying the debt down in any rush. The club is buying itself slowly, they've basically cut the debt accrued buying the club in half since they purchased it. They pay the profits out in dividends each quarter - for example, in the latest quarterly report they paid a dividend to the shareholders that was basically equivalent to the quarterly profits. A lot of their worth is tied up in the assets they own in terms of the sports clubs and shopping malls etc. Its their income.
I dont think they are dreadful owners but if we are to compete in this day and age with the tycoons throwing money into chelsea PSG and city we need an owner who owns it for fun.
If we believe the papers then some players did not want to move this summer (Sancho), preferred a move elsewhere (Eriksen) or wanted ample remuneration to slum it in the Europa League (Dybala).
We were not the most attractive proposition this year and I am definitely glad we didn't bring in players motivated only by money. If we get this team playing attacking football and sneak 4th place I think we'll bring in a better caliber of player next summer.
We were not the most attractive proposition this year and I am definitely glad we didn't bring in players motivated only by money. If we get this team playing attacking football and sneak 4th place I think we'll bring in a better caliber of player next summer.
Or players we already have on our books like Tuanzebe
I've read it mentioned a couple times in other threads that it may be because the Glazers want to sell, which I would be happy with as long as the new owners care about results on the pitch as they do about commercial success.
It may be that Woody has been bit before and doesn't want to get bit again as he has no faith in the manager, which I said with Jose if he has bno faith in the manager, the manager should be fired and this is not a dig at Ole as I think if given the right platform for success by Woody, he would do well here.
It maybe that Woody feels the squad is alright as it is as, as we have the youngsters coming through. But we need to be patient and give them time to make mistakes, to learn from them to develop and fulfill their potential.
It may be that Woody has been bit before and doesn't want to get bit again as he has no faith in the manager, which I said with Jose if he has bno faith in the manager, the manager should be fired and this is not a dig at Ole as I think if given the right platform for success by Woody, he would do well here.
It maybe that Woody feels the squad is alright as it is as, as we have the youngsters coming through. But we need to be patient and give them time to make mistakes, to learn from them to develop and fulfill their potential.
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What are you expecting from the glazers exactly, 7 box office signings in one window?
Not really. Dembele yes but Haller was all pure bullshit and Dybala isn't even a pure striker who leads the line. We only got interested in him because Juve said he was available, that is what I mean by having no direction, we never wanted Dybala but once Juve offered him we decided to go hard for him.
Tuanzebe has been retained as a squad option, Mata, whether you like it or not is an experienced PL attacker, we cannot replace him with our youth players.
MORE?! MORE?!
We outspend every club each season and you want MORE!?
Lord almighty.
We spent £50 odd mill on AWB, £85M on Maguire and £18M on James and you guys want MORE to be spent.
The money’s there and the Glazers will spend it, that’s clear as day.
It’s got nothing to do with the Lukaku deal either as that came at the end of the window, which up until the last minute looked like it weren’t happening.
Great business my Ed if you ask me, £75M on a player who has had a couple poor seasons, recouped most the money, if not all, got a fantastic deal on AWB & yet Eds poor for the club. O....k
(Sure we need a DoF that’s clear, but it’s not as bad as it seems.
Seems like you all want a rich guy to come in and just spunk money all over the place for shiny new toys each year. Who’s to say new owners wouldn’t just do the same as the Glazers?
We outspend every club each season and you want MORE!?
Lord almighty.
We spent £50 odd mill on AWB, £85M on Maguire and £18M on James and you guys want MORE to be spent.
The money’s there and the Glazers will spend it, that’s clear as day.
It’s got nothing to do with the Lukaku deal either as that came at the end of the window, which up until the last minute looked like it weren’t happening.
Great business my Ed if you ask me, £75M on a player who has had a couple poor seasons, recouped most the money, if not all, got a fantastic deal on AWB & yet Eds poor for the club. O....k
(Sure we need a DoF that’s clear, but it’s not as bad as it seems.
Seems like you all want a rich guy to come in and just spunk money all over the place for shiny new toys each year. Who’s to say new owners wouldn’t just do the same as the Glazers?
Utd has a net spend of £442m in the last 5 years, second only to City. How much realistically can you spend without CL football?
I agree with your commentary and because won't catch Liverpool or City overnight we have to start somewhere and be patient with our approach. We could have easily splashed out 500m on Coutinho, Eriksen, Bale, Dybala and Neymar. Rejects of the highest calibre but what if it went wrong? The financial structure of the club would be in tatters.
I'm happy to build on what we have and revert back to promoting youth from within and adding a couple of expensive signings each year.
Hopefully the goals set by the management this year are to win a trophy and mount a title challenge. Despite what people think its still achievable. We could easily win our first 6 games which puts serious pressure on our rivals and builds momentum and desire.
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You’re missing the point. We have a surplus of CBs now. Even though in the past year we have given 3 of them new contracts
Two of those given new deals are injury prone and one of those we just tried to sell to Everton. Its the definition of miss management
On the subject of Mata, well we could have replaced his squad position with Gomes if we wanted to considering we have an experienced player in Lingard who can operate there also.
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Go home Ed, you’re drunk.
The past several years we've bought a lot and spent crazy money on several players and that got us nowhere. So why not, and hear me out, why not try something different? Start from ground up, promote some promising kids, create that core and then build from there?
Maybe, just maybe, it could yield better results?
Maybe, just maybe, it could yield better results?
No top clubs really spent that much. I think there may be some worries about a recession coming, at least that could be a reason.
To answer the thread title:
Because he has a brief from the owners/board and part of that is limits on spending???
I know he is an arse but I don’t think he makes all this up without say so from upstairs.
It’s not about how much we spend anyway, it’s about how wisely that money is invested. Things have not gone well in that department as there is still a gaping hole at RW and a very shallow MF.
We could still have a great season but it will require luck with injuries, luck with form, the kids stepping up, Matic/Sanches being 10 years younger and Ole learning his trade fast.
Easy!!!
Because he has a brief from the owners/board and part of that is limits on spending???
I know he is an arse but I don’t think he makes all this up without say so from upstairs.
It’s not about how much we spend anyway, it’s about how wisely that money is invested. Things have not gone well in that department as there is still a gaping hole at RW and a very shallow MF.
We could still have a great season but it will require luck with injuries, luck with form, the kids stepping up, Matic/Sanches being 10 years younger and Ole learning his trade fast.
Easy!!!
I also think it's a good test of Solskjaer's long-term suitability for the job whether he can get more out of the players who ARE at the club. We can't honestly say that Pogba, Martial, Shaw, Lindelof, Fred (other reasons sure), and more were performing to their potential under Mourinho. Getting a tonne of new faces in wouldn't tell them much about how Ole handles players, because there'd be nothing to compare their levels at Man Utd with.
No the club is thriving financially. Grossing just above £600 million last fiscal year. (new record) But the reason the club is thriving financially is due to Ed Woodwards management of the football club. I know this is a very unpopular opinion around here, but if we'd gone on a bigger spending spree we'd be risking the clubs future as we'd risk having to take big bank loans to finance the purchases. We CAN spend big, but we shouldn't for fiscal reasons.
As it stands, the club prior to this seasons transfer window had around £250 million pounds in the bank available to spend. Of course this was never going to happen since the club always needs to have spendable resources.
Manchester United have owners that does not invest in the club, but rather let the clubs business empire invest in itself, while at the same time tackle the enormous debt the Glazer family inserted into the club over the takeover. That's the big difference betwen us and clubs like Manchester City. Manchester City is not yet profitable as the clubs management does not take salaries or dividends. (The club does make money, but if they were to pay their leaders they would not be).
We still got enormous spending power, don't get me wrong. But a lot of people are looking at clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona and PSG and wonder why we can't do that?
Barcelona and Real Madrid have taken out giant bank loans this year to finance their operations. Barcelona had to borrow almost half of the amount they paid for Greizman from the Catalan bank, putting the club in further debt. PSG and Man City are on financial steroids, they are entirely dependent on their oil rich owners to sustain this kind of operations. If the owners were to pull out they would be limp in the water. That is not a way to run a longevity football club. It's a way to run a investment project.
It might be more fun for the fans to just buy whoever you want all the time, but once a new recession hits us, that's going to be a problem for everyone.
Right now Manchester Unite are doing well. I wish the Glazers would go away and give the club to owners who are more passionate about football than they are, but on Ed Woodwards part he is doing an incredible job at handling the finance operations of the club.
OGS has a very narrow transfer plan that he intends to follow and not deviate from. We're seemingly not going to buy players we were originally not in for, in order to satisfy a short term plan by using rental players as stop gaps.
A Saudi takeover is the only thing that would force me to stop supporting United. Its unthinkable to me.
That said: Even the idea of a sugardaddy takeover is not going to bring the club a Messi or a Neymar or even signings of the proportions that people seem to think we need (and we might). Squaring the debt gives us another 20m to play with yearly, because that is actually all that our current debt costs us. Its not big money. Our wage bill is prob around 310m now. Its not even 10 percent of that.
In addition any owner is limited to a maximum of 30m in capital injection per year according to current FFP-rules.
A takeover from the Saudis or some benevolent unicorn would not do that much for us financially. Its a myth.
The club spends a crap load of money already. Its time to start using the funds better instead of moaning about it not being enough. Because a) its not true and b) its not going to be much more even if the Saudis buy us.
We could cheat like City of course, but otherwise thats just how it is.
aim high... I believe they could cheat far better
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What is better getting £400m-£500m in one go or getting £20m p.a from an asset depreciating in value? If they receive a £4bn offer or thereabouts they would be stupid to turn it down. Five more years of this rot the club will hardly be worth a billion and fan disillusionment will result in less marketability as negative press on fan revolt ensue.
£145m isn't anywhere close to what it used to be. City just invested £120m on 2 players who won't walk into their first XI, a team that finished 30 points ahead of us. But then you know all this, so making these '£150m spend' claims is worse than tabloid hyperbole.
Likewise, we have also just lost around £130m talent from the squad (Lukaku, Herrera, Fellaini). There is plenty of spare cash still on our balance sheet. This makes these '£150m spend' claims even more disingenuous.
My take on the Lukaku sale: Woodward made sure the sale happened on the last day so he wouldn't have enough time to replace Lukaku in this window and could hide behind that excuse when the shit hit the fan.
Maybe there is something in this. I fully expect UK to enter into a recession @ Brexit (no dal or otherwise)
I would imagine Woodward doesn’t set our budget, he gets one given to him.
I’m clinging on to the hope that similarly to Klopp in his earlier windows - he kept saying he has targets that aren’t available... that we too have identified targets and if they aren’t available or we have x to spend that we wait until the opportunity presents itself cough Sancho cough
… Tbh though, everyone will hate the new owners too, you can almost guarantee it no matter who it is!So the new owner have to cough up 300M every season, or else they're leechers?
Now would be a smart time to sell the club tbh, we’ve definitely peaked as an asset. Unless there is substantial change where we start winning regularly or some Saudi prince buys us and invests hundreds of millions every window we are going to continue to lose value every year
Why all the talking about amount spent money? The question should be how we spend? Post Fergie we have spent a lot of money and didn't have so much luck with it. I believe that sometime you have to put breaks on and evalute things and ask ourself, what do we do wrong? There are so many elements in this that we have to think about.
Do we need to spend? Of course. You got to keep wheel in motion. Can we spend like money growns on trees. Of course not. We did what we had to do this summer (although i would have wanted one more central midfielder) and I am very pleased. We got exciting season infront of us and I cant wait to start. There will be lot of our and other fans suprised how well we will be doing.
Do we need to spend? Of course. You got to keep wheel in motion. Can we spend like money growns on trees. Of course not. We did what we had to do this summer (although i would have wanted one more central midfielder) and I am very pleased. We got exciting season infront of us and I cant wait to start. There will be lot of our and other fans suprised how well we will be doing.
Depends if we're successful, let's face it, no real business man/woman will sink billions into a football club unless they have other motives (Chelsea, City and PSG) so if we do get sold, it'll be to someone who wants us as an image, basically morally corrupt.
1. Evil owners but winning - no one would care.
2. Evil owner and still losing - same situation we have now.
3. Elon Musk as owner - installs robotic limbs on Phill Jones, everyone's happy.