Why so many knee-jerk reactions and negativity 7 games in?

Withnail

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I am starting to lose patience and getting worried, but last season we started worse i believe and finished second, ill wait until at least January to really start worrying - once varane and sancho are settled i think we'll be fine
Well this is it. I expect performances to improve as they have done over the past few seasons once new players bed in and everyone gets up to speed again.

Whether it improves enough is another matter and we'll see what they're really made of over the next 5 games or so.
 

NewYorkRed

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Not just the results: its the performances. The performances don’t suggest that we will turn it around. Every performance, bar one, has been bad. Combine that with the fact that we have had by far and away the easiest run of fixtures out of the top teams, and it makes sense why people are acting out.

You’re not not a top fan if you’re worried about how the team you love is performing.
 

Ludens the Red

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Why so many knee-jerk reactions and negativity 7 games”

Probably because it isn’t based on seven games…..
 

Womp

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Try 3 years. Players get better, we still see the same issues, season after season. That's the problem.
 
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Sacking Ole will get us another short term manager who would bolt at the first sign of despair.
Says who?

People need to stop making up false dichotomies. If you're in favor of keeping the manager, base it on what he has or will bring to the team. Not some baseless doomsday scenario about the alternatives
 

Someone

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What caused this reaction for me, even I though I love Ole to death, is the feeling that we finally have a very good squad capable of challenging, and that it's becoming clearer by the day that he isn't at the same level as most of the managers at the top level. People forget that this is his 3rd year and we brought in a lot of players. We'll pick up some form again I'm sure but for us to actually to something we need that extra push that a top manager brings. Liverpool, City. and Chelsea aren't perfect, but anyone who watches them regularly will notice the glaring difference.

Ole did a great job getting us to this point, but what got you here won't necessarily take you there.
 

Andersons Dietician

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Lately without even 10 games played yet (In the PL), there is so much negativity and pessimism on the forum?

Like it's almost as if you'd think we're in a relegation battle, even after finishing 2nd last year, and yes I've heard all the excuses as to why we finished 2nd and why it was nothing to do with Ole or the players and in fact more to do with the teams around us. I mean we deserve some credit can't make up excuses for every single positive thing that United do. Anyway, there seems to be a lot of talk and dislike towards the manager. Now more than ever it seems as I'm perplexed as to why? Why now of all times, why right this moment?

We're not in free fall by any means and yet the feeling around the fans on here anyway is that we're in some sort of disaster mode. Even news that Phelan, Carrick, McKenna are getting new contracts somehow comes back to Ole and fake, patronising praise for the club.

The season has just begun and I'll say it again, people are getting really upset to the point where from the outside looking in, looking at people's reactions to news, it seems as though we're flirting with the bottom 3.

It's the international break too, which doesn't help things either.
Because most of it isn’t knee jerk and has come from watching the teams progression over the last two seasons which seems to have stagnated. Looks like it’s continuing this year with basic footballing fundamentals not being performed combined with weird tactics.

Its not position, points or games won but the performances that people are concerned about. I’m sure most want Ole to succeed, I want him to succeed and I’m by no means Ole out or at the stage of the sky is falling in but watching what we’ve produced this season I am somewhat concerned and starting to have my doubts.

However right now I don’t see a manager out there that I think we should/could get that would continue what we have but improve upon it and take it where it needs to go to be successful.
 

studs

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Three years in the job so far, has he been given enough time to prove his worth ? That should be a poll.
 

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You seem to feel our problems begin and end with Pogba and all our solutions are around ‘work hard’. Can you name me one side in history that consistently won the biggest prizes with average ability (James, McT) but hard work (James,McT)

Also Pogba was one of our better players vs Villa along with Bruno and Greenwood. They drove us forwards.
Us?

Under Fergie we never had a defensive passenger in a successful midfield before. The closest I can think of is Veron and it just didn’t work. We’ve played Phil Neville, John O Shea, Anderson, Cleverly and brought old players on their last legs out of retirement and they’ve been more defensively reliable. Even the tiny walking yellow card Scholes consistently closed down and tracked. It doesn’t matter how talented you are. If you play in the middle for us you have to win the battle first and foremost.

Pogba was one of our worst players against Villa. He lost the ball more than anyone else.
 
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Presto

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There is a group the caftards who just plainly hate Ole. They were against him from the very beginning of his tenure with United. They looked down on him from day 1. They will not change their stance until Ole wins a major trophy. Or two. They will still whine that he didn’t win a treble.

Then there is a group of people who love Ole because he is Ole. Whatever he does.

The third and the largest group is always in between and reacts to the results.

The fourth is the tiniest group in which people might or might not support Ole. They actually watch the games, use stats to understand players and coaches better, always back their statements with some insight and data, polite and benevolent, and realise that we are all Man United supporters.

RedCafe problem is not Ole outers or Ole inners; the problem is “alpha” posters.
Nah, only two types of people: those who see Ole's limitations in tactics and those who don't
 

Tyrion

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Because it’s not just 7 games in, it’s years.
Exactly. This crap about "its just seven games in" doesn't apply when the manager is going into his third full season.

Also, for a club like Man United being behind Chelsea, Liverpool and City is being in the bottom 3.
 

Tyrion

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Under Fergie we never had a defensive passenger in a successful midfield before. The closest I can think of is Veron and it just didn’t work. We’ve played Phil Neville, John O Shea, Anderson, Cleverly and brought old players on their last legs out of retirement and they’ve been more defensively reliable. Even the tiny walking yellow card Scholes consistently closed down and tracked. It doesn’t matter how talented you are. If you play in the middle for us you have to win the battle first and foremost.
We could have one passenger but with Pogba, Ronaldo and Martial, we have a few. Plus our holding midfield isn't good enough to cover.
 

eire-red

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I think one look at the performances, results and fixture list we've had to start with, and it's pretty clear why people are not expecting much this season.
 

TheRedHearted

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Tell me, what do you see that gives you optimism? Out of interest. There hasn't been a progression in our style of play, despite an improvement in the players at his disposal.

When he first came, he got good results against the top sides, but that stuttered last year after teams realised he only has one tactic against them - sit back, keep it tight, hope to nick one on the break. We've pretty much always struggled under his watch to break down sides lower than us in the table.

Watch a replay of Liverpool - City game at the weekend. Maybe that's where the pessimism lies. It's like a completely different sport, watching those two teams play, compared to the dross we serve up, week in, week out, having spent a fortune.
Aren’t Liverpool and city practically the same sides cept for Graelish?

Varane and sancho are both in a new league. Sancho should have been in last year, and should have signed a DM this summer. Ronaldo does change us as a side. We haven’t hit our stride yet but we very well could. When we do Ole has us very dangerous in the past. Imagine if we sign a DM this winter.
 

Sayros

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It's an online sports forum, knee-jerk reactions are our bread and butter as sports fans debating online. I think it may be even more highlighted this season because of the expectations that come with bringing in Sancho, Varane, and CR7 to the fold and so when things are looking like it's the same old story again, it only frustrates people even more than if this was a regular summer of mediocre transfers.
 

ReddBalls

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I am starting to lose patience and getting worried, but last season we started worse i believe and finished second, ill wait until at least January to really start worrying - once varane and sancho are settled i think we'll be fine
Starting "bad" is certainly a pattern with him. It might be OGS is "sacrificing" the start of the season to make the team reach peak fitness around Christmas and keep going till the end. I remember him telling the press that "pre-season lasts until the international break" at the start of his first full season, which might imply they're doing fitness up until now.

As this is the best start points wise that could actually be a good thing, given that his two worse starts ended with respectively 3rd and 2nd place.
 

Ali Dia

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We could have one passenger but with Pogba, Ronaldo and Martial, we have a few. Plus our holding midfield isn't good enough to cover.
Greenwood is another. Rasford possibly comes back the same work rate as last year…. I don’t know. I kept saying it last year. If we’d 2 Dan James either side of a young Cavani we’d break down a lot more of the teams we struggled with. We’d press from the front and force a mistake early on. “Average players” who work really fecking hard mixed with the sprinkle of world class we can provide and usually a really good defence is how we were so successful for so long. It’s tight margins. You can’t walk around hoping your class will eventually bail you out. In the last few games we’ve have too much class and not enough graft and aggression.
 

jesperjaap

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Greenwood is another. Rasford possibly comes back the same work rate as last year…. I don’t know. I kept saying it last year. If we’d 2 Dan James either side of a young Cavani we’d break down a lot more of the teams we struggled with. We’d press from the front and force a mistake early on. “Average players” who work really fecking hard mixed with the sprinkle of world class we can provide and usually a really good defence is how we were so successful for so long. It’s tight margins. You can’t walk around hoping your class will eventually bail you out. In the last few games we’ve have too much class and not enough graft and aggression.
Are you seriously saying you would liek TWO Dan James in our starting eleven? i have seen you make some very good posts in threads, however that is simply an utterly ludicrous opinion, running around working hard doesnt solve the problems we have when you cant do anyting with the ball
 

Ali Dia

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Are you seriously saying you would liek TWO Dan James in our starting eleven? i have seen you make some very good posts in threads, however that is simply an utterly ludicrous opinion, running around working hard doesnt solve the problems we have when you cant do anyting with the ball
Honestly if you want to press I think the optimum would be players like Greenwood and Rasford with Dan James drive. If Pogba had Freds drive he’d be the best midfielder in the world bar none. I wish the players/management could see that this is what we need more than anything. Nasty hardworking direct drive
 

jesperjaap

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I agree with the sentiment of some, it isnt based on seven games, it is his third season now. personally I think he has been overly criticised by a lot of fans and done quite a few things well within the transfer market....but simply not enough.
Forgettign the back room staff (contract extensions....why?), his tactics, teams selections, holding on to players too long, often seeming fairly happy with mediocre performances and failure to win any trophies are all negatives against him. He has generally done good signings for me though, he has addressed the youth set up...............

However for me, his failure this last window especially to address the central midfield problems in his whole time here bar signing VDB who hasnt played much (and I always tought was the wrogn signing) is really poor management. Bar die hard loyal fans of any player in a United shirt, I think for the vast majority, it is blindingly obvious our central mifield is weak and this has been evident for a good coupel fo seasons already, let alone these seven games when even average sides are bypassing us and on to our overly exposed defence....at will. Roy Keane is overly critical but his ""you wotn win trophies with that midfield" is so so true. Not only do they leav eour defence exposed, they also dont really bar Pogba (who cant play there as defensively he is a liability) offer much at all going forward. The limtied number of chances we are creating is partly due to our midfield as well.
We remind me a bit of Keegans Newcastle, great attackign line up, crap defence, same with us but its midfield....they were entertainign though
 

Ibi Dreams

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The performances have been worrying, but we're still fine points wise in the table and there's no reason why we shouldn't get out of our CL group, so the Ole out brigade need to wind in a bit.

It's not like we've not had bad runs before, we've had them with Ole and then bounced back brilliantly and we had them with SAF too. Too early to be as negative as some are being. Let's see what happens over the next month or so. I do think getting Rashford back could be a big help as well
 

Red00012

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Any manager who gets Sancho , Ronaldo and Varane and has us been playing like we’re 3 tiers down and playing worse than last season shouldn’t be managing the team
 

Jeppers7

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Us?

Under Fergie we never had a defensive passenger in a successful midfield before. The closest I can think of is Veron and it just didn’t work. We’ve played Phil Neville, John O Shea, Anderson, Cleverly and brought old players on their last legs out of retirement and they’ve been more defensively reliable. Even the tiny walking yellow card Scholes consistently closed down and tracked. It doesn’t matter how talented you are. If you play in the middle for us you have to win the battle first and foremost.

Pogba was one of our worst players against Villa. He lost the ball more than anyone else.
Bollocks….have you stats to back that up or just your usual agenda? Him Greenwood and Bruno all had poor games but were our best players. They drove us forward.

As for the rest of the drivel you’ve written….Phil Neville, John O’Shea and cleverly won leagues because of the players they played with, not because of the players they were. They were shite, but played with great players. Scholes was the most absurdly talented English player of his generation but he wasn’t a workhorse, he was a defensive liability but perhaps had dross like O’Shea to contribute for him. Football is a team sport you need to accept that your concept is extremely flawed and it isn’t all Pogba’s fault. What will you do next year? I mean we’ve added Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo to last year’s squad and it’s no better….take Pogba out guess what? It’s no better in fact midfield is shocking with your two workers in there.
 

ReddBalls

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Honestly if you want to press I think the optimum would be players like Greenwood and Rasford with Dan James drive. If Pogba had Freds drive he’d be the best midfielder in the world bar none. I wish the players/management could see that this is what we need more than anything. Nasty hardworking direct drive
Lingard?
 

Jeppers7

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Greenwood is another. Rasford possibly comes back the same work rate as last year…. I don’t know. I kept saying it last year. If we’d 2 Dan James either side of a young Cavani we’d break down a lot more of the teams we struggled with. We’d press from the front and force a mistake early on. “Average players” who work really fecking hard mixed with the sprinkle of world class we can provide and usually a really good defence is how we were so successful for so long. It’s tight margins. You can’t walk around hoping your class will eventually bail you out. In the last few games we’ve have too much class and not enough graft and aggression.
Seriously two Dan james? We sold the one we had for peanuts because he was shite. You’ll never understand this but it’s more about who you are than what United need.
 

Ali Dia

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Seriously two Dan james? We sold the one we had for peanuts because he was shite. You’ll never understand this but it’s more about who you are than what United need.
For me It’s about getting pressing players who show the opposition no respect. I think it’s the same with you with Pogba. You find it harder to admit when he’s had a poor game. That Villa game he was very much a part of the reason we built up in that slow long ball way and he kept getting turned over. He caused them no problems. Sometimes you just need someone relentless forcing you to commit fouls and pass the ball off a split second faster than you would have to disrupt the flow. Villa and Everton looked way too comfortable against us. I think at this point it’s a selection issue as much as any coaching issue.
 

Champ

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It's going to be negative as he's created a thread after we've lost or drawn too many games after finishing well last season and signing Sancho, Ronaldo and Varane over the summer...

It's been nothing short of diabolical after signing those those players and keeping our core players.

IF Ole had learnt over the last few years to improve tactics and we signed who we did and we won, brilliant...but after those signings we should be all over the teams we lost against and only person responsible is Ole.
That's really not the case though. Hyperbolic over reacting.
 

Tarrou

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I don't think it's knee-jerk, a lot of people made their mind up about the current management a long time ago

and they do have valid concerns to be fair
 

The Boy

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Says who?

People need to stop making up false dichotomies. If you're in favor of keeping the manager, base it on what he has or will bring to the team. Not some baseless doomsday scenario about the alternatives
Name checks out :D
 

DRJosh

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I think we' are past the point of succumbing to knee-jerk reactions.

The team's time to shine is now and if Ole can't deliver that, he should assume a different role at the club.

The positive sparks in our play often feel like 'happy accidents' rather than the product of a well-oiled system and game plan.
 

Regalia

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Starting "bad" is certainly a pattern with him. It might be OGS is "sacrificing" the start of the season to make the team reach peak fitness around Christmas and keep going till the end. I remember him telling the press that "pre-season lasts until the international break" at the start of his first full season, which might imply they're doing fitness up until now.

As this is the best start points wise that could actually be a good thing, given that his two worse starts ended with respectively 3rd and 2nd place.
The mental gymnastics on this forum just to defend Ole. Good grief. It's like listening to anti-vaxxers explain why not being protected from a virus is better. We must be one humongous mess behind the scenes if we even need to trot out excuses like this. If someone has it in them to do something, you usually see it very quickly (maybe with a little encouragement and training). In anything in life - work, sports, cooking, baking, whatever. You don't need to wait 3+ years to find out if a that new manager at the office is finally going to come good. If you have to wait that long, then 2 things are true: 1) you could have given that 3 years to literally anyone if you're going to wait forever for them to prove themselves / 2) you cut your losses and bring someone else in that could potentially be better (again based on the premise that you accepted mediocrity in the first place, so anything is a viable alternative).

Some people on here love using the strawman argument that there aren't top class replacements available if we got rid of Ole. Well, Ole isn't exactly doing anything noteworthy, so anyone is worth a try if you ask me. We got a manager from Molde for the biggest club in the world, what's wrong with Potter from Brighton then? Even Ole's 'positive influence' having steadied the ship after Mourinho is way overblown. Any 'normal' manager we got in at that time would have been an improvement over Mou. He was toxic as fk near the end you could feel it even watching on the tele. All that talk promoting youth and we have two 36 year-olds up front, while the midfield is still entirely Mourinho's (Fred, Matic, McTom, Pogba). Besides being a bit of a good vibes merchant and getting lucky with signing Bruno, I fail to see what Ole has done that any other competent manager would not have achieved in the same time. That's why there is negativity, and it's not after 7 games, it's after 2.5 years of this stagnation - bad footballing performances, bad in-game tactical decisions, mostly average to bad buys.
 

Jeppers7

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For me It’s about getting pressing players who show the opposition no respect. I think it’s the same with you with Pogba. You find it harder to admit when he’s had a poor game. That Villa game he was very much a part of the reason we built up in that slow long ball way and he kept getting turned over. He caused them no problems. Sometimes you just need someone relentless forcing you to commit fouls and pass the ball off a split second faster than you would have to disrupt the flow. Villa and Everton looked way too comfortable against us. I think at this point it’s a selection issue as much as any coaching issue.
Absolute nonsense. Again you want to just blame certain individuals, or one in particular. Pogba didn’t play against Everton and we were no better. If you think the answer is no tactics and 11 runners well I’d disagree. I think we have enough talented players to be a top side. We need a better midfield than McFred but aside from that a top manager would get better performances out of this squad than the utter dross we’re seeing.

If you want to believe this will magically change when Pogba leaves then you’re in for a shock next summer. It will change when we get a manager who implements a proper system. Then you might see pressing like you want to see it and players causing other teams problems and quicker passing because the movement and decision making process will be drilled into the players. It’s why Brighton can play Arsenal off the pitch last week, or us last year. Us buying all their players won’t be the answer though.

As for the Villa game, I’m pretty sure I never said Pogba had a good game. I was at the game and it’s definitely a different game from the stands where you see the whole picture. Three players who were poor, Bruno, Greenwood and Pogba were our best players because despite them turning the ball over or making poor choices, which coaching would fix, they continued to try to drive us forward and make things happen. Nobody else did. Varane was the only other exception. He’s just quality.

When you have a manager who in his own words isn’t big on tactics and formations, focusses on passion and getting there first, but don’t have a system in place for it to work. That’s on the manager. When the manager passes off errors like Jesse’s against YB as something that happens in football or has a little joke with Scotty in the 93rd minute to break the ice after barking orders at him, then don’t expect the players to not be ok with mediocre performances either.

Or perhaps it’s just Paul’s fault.
 

Kostov

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Lately without even 10 games played yet (In the PL), there is so much negativity and pessimism on the forum?

Like it's almost as if you'd think we're in a relegation battle, even after finishing 2nd last year, and yes I've heard all the excuses as to why we finished 2nd and why it was nothing to do with Ole or the players and in fact more to do with the teams around us. I mean we deserve some credit can't make up excuses for every single positive thing that United do. Anyway, there seems to be a lot of talk and dislike towards the manager. Now more than ever it seems as I'm perplexed as to why? Why now of all times, why right this moment?

We're not in free fall by any means and yet the feeling around the fans on here anyway is that we're in some sort of disaster mode. Even news that Phelan, Carrick, McKenna are getting new contracts somehow comes back to Ole and fake, patronising praise for the club.

The season has just begun and I'll say it again, people are getting really upset to the point where from the outside looking in, looking at people's reactions to news, it seems as though we're flirting with the bottom 3.

It's the international break too, which doesn't help things either.
People are fickle, they expected us to compete and seriously challenge for the league with players like Fred, McT and Ole as a manager, now when they see that we are so far of the likes of City and Liverpool, their knee jerk reaction is expected.

And yeah, that 2nd place finish was very much down to Liverpool being a mess, and Chelsea being inconsistent. At this current state of affairs, we will fight for 4th place finish and that's what makes people see the harsh reality.