Why the heck #OLEOUT is trending again?

masii

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Irrelevant from all discussions around, as the man Utd manager you need to win a trophy after 3 years, that is it.
 

Crustanoid

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Irrelevant from all discussions around, as the man Utd manager you need to win a trophy after 3 years, that is it.
Would you rather:

Scenario A:

This year we finish 3rd, 9 points behind City
Go out in FA cup semi
Go out in Europa League

Next year we finish 2nd, 3 points behind the winners
Don’t win any cups but get to CL quarters

The year after
Finish 2nd on goal difference from the winners
Don’t win any cups but get to CL semis

Net result: progress in league and CL but no trophies

OR

Scenario B:

This year finish 4th and win FA cup
Next year finish 5th, go out in CL groups. Win Europa

The year after finish 5th and win League Cup

Net result, no progress in league standings or CL, but three trophies?
 

Eli Zee

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Not really. Big clubs have plenty of cover.

And covid restrain in same across the board. It evens out the playing field.

All top teams shared the same fixtures as us bar a few days here and there.
i disagree because in a regular season, the big clubs have plenty of cover while having a less hectic schedule. In this season, they have a more hectic schedule but the same amount of cover. So they may be impacted more than the teams in less competitions by the schedule. This will affect their point total in the league, but not CL / EL since only thebetter clubs r in those competitions anyway.
 

Majima

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We currently are a top side in Europe.

It's not deluded to think it. Unless the bench mark is City or Bayern for advanced patterns, Europe not exactly littered with absolute quality as you be claiming to think is the bench.

We already beat PSG this side. We beat liverpool as well, we've Held our own. We sitting 2nd in a league that has 8 teams still in Europe competition.

.it's not my problem you are obsessing about patterns of play and haven't a clue about football to think it's just down to individual brilliance how we are getting by.
We currently are a top side in Europe. It's not deluded to think it.
Wow. Is that why we turtle and play like minnows vs. any of them every time? Yes, definitely on par with them.

Anyone can get a lucky win once in a while. Case in point, yes we beat the PSG side, but they progressed top of the group, we crashed out instead. We beat Liverpool in a one off cup tie at home, but in PL at Anfield, though they were in terrible form, in an injury crisis with no Van Dijk & Fabinho & Henderson at centre back, we still camped in our own half.
 
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Majima

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You can't be serious.
If you don't remember us being well drilled under LVG, I don't know what you was watching. All of the former players praised the level of detail he went into. We was regularly controlling possession with Smalling, Jones, Blind, Fellaini, Rooney & Young. You think that was possible without coaching?

Rooney said in 2019:

“Van Gaal is by far the best coach I have worked with - one hundred percent,” Rooney told De Telegraaf.

“His tactical skills, his way of preparing and his attention to the finest of details, I found amazing. I admired that in him. I had never looked at stuff like that before.”

“I have learnt a lot from him and I am definitely going to use those lessons for when I am a manager.”
 

M Bison

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If you don't remember us being well drilled under LVG, I don't know what you was watching. All of the former players praised the level of detail he went into. We was regularly controlling possession with Smalling, Jones, Blind, Fellaini, Rooney & Young. You think that was possible without coaching?
We were awful under LVG, the style of play was horrific and we were going no where, level of detail is irrelevant when we performed the way we did. He’s business in the transfer market was rubbish as well.
 

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

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We were awful under LVG, the style of play was horrific and we were going no where, level of detail is irrelevant when we performed the way we did. He’s business in the transfer market was rubbish as well.
I'd add that LvG's style got bogged down in the details.
 

Majima

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We were awful under LVG, the style of play was horrific and we were going no where, level of detail is irrelevant when we performed the way we did. He’s business in the transfer market was rubbish as well.
I agree the progress was slow, but I don't believe it was as bad as people try to make out. We was trying to become a possession team overnight when the squad wasn't suitable for it, and the board didn't help with transfers. But we did get Rashford and Martial.

I believe we would have been better off sticking with him than ripping everything up and going in the opposite direction with Mourinho. Lastly It's not fair to criticise his transfers, as that was the board's doing. He's confirmed none of them was his 1st, 2nd or 3rd choices:

"I wanted Robert Lewandowski, but when this proved difficult I tried to get Gonzalo Higuain instead," Van Gaal told FourFourTwo.

"Before I had arrived, I also spoke with the board about Neymar. If you are at United, you have to think big. He was also interesting for the club in terms of selling shirts, and I wanted to have quick wingers. For that reason, I also tried to get Sadio Mane and Riyad Mahrez.

"Thomas Muller was on my wish list, too, and in central midfield I wanted N'Golo Kante. I even tried to sign James Milner, who was already quite old but very multifunctional and possessed leadership skills.

"For the defence, I wanted Sergio Ramos and Mats Hummels, because ours wasn't the strongest in building from the back."
He added: "Those were my top targets, but we couldn't get any of them. I don't know why, because as the manager I wasn't involved in any negotiations.

"After I left, players like Mahrez and Kante ended up at Manchester City and Chelsea, while United couldn't get them. I found that very odd."
 
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Majima

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You want us to re appoint LVG then? All of the above you mention is very much LVG territory.

The obsession with individual brilliance is getting a bit daft really, LVG had some very talented players at his disposal however it didnt feel like it when you watched his team and the most talented players largely struggled with and were somewhat restrained by his well drilled system. There was very much a lack of individual brilliance.

You can coach a team to death but more often than not the very best rely on individual brilliance and it's often the difference between the best and the rest.

If anything the best managers set up there teams to get the best out of there best players, and often the very best teams have players producing outstanding numbers or individual brilliance if you like.
No. That's not what I said. You asked me to define what I meant, and I did.

The best manager currently Guardiola, is no different to how LVG was. He expects the players to stay in position, and follow his plan. The best attacking managers all have a framework set up which meticulously puts everything in place, to get the ball up to the final third, then the team is trusted to finish the job. But I don't see any evidence of that happening here with Ole. Which is why we will always be off the level of the top sides in Europe until that changes imo.
 
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Halftrack

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We were awful under LVG, the style of play was horrific and we were going no where, level of detail is irrelevant when we performed the way we did. He’s business in the transfer market was rubbish as well.
We also valued not conceding more than scoring.
 

masii

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Would you rather:

Scenario A:

This year we finish 3rd, 9 points behind City
Go out in FA cup semi
Go out in Europa League

Next year we finish 2nd, 3 points behind the winners
Don’t win any cups but get to CL quarters

The year after
Finish 2nd on goal difference from the winners
Don’t win any cups but get to CL semis

Net result: progress in league and CL but no trophies

OR

Scenario B:

This year finish 4th and win FA cup
Next year finish 5th, go out in CL groups. Win Europa

The year after finish 5th and win League Cup

Net result, no progress in league standings or CL, but three trophies?
Well, there is a big gap between what I choose and what majority of fans demand on social media, starter asked about twitter and stuff, my answer was one sentence, people look for trophies! Specifically big one like PL or CL! I would definitely go for your option A. We should admit that most of international fans joined during SAF glorious period, I do not care much if we win the PL this year or next year, I became a fan because of Peter Schmeicel in 90‘s then felt in love with our playing style and vibes around us. I am in my mid thirty and all I want to see is united finding the right pathway again and I trust Ole. I could be wrong but I like the positive vibe Ole brought to the team and I know he is a big fan of united and he cares about other fans and their wishes. Of course, he may not be as talented as many big names around, which would be problematic in the process but I trust for now because I see kind of progress! People may say what you need to be successful is knowledge and talent but I would say you need passion too. Passion was the missing part under LVG or Jose but we found someone who is passionate, we can bring talent and knowledge through bringing good assistents like what we have done during SAF through having Carlos Q and etc but you can never make someone passionate about his job and caring about millions of fans all around the world.
 
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Crustanoid

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Well, there is a big gap between what I choose and what majority of fans demand on social media, starter asked about twitter and stuff, my answer was one sentence, people look for trophies! Specifically big one like PL or CL! I would definitely go for your option A. We should admit that most of international fans joined during SAF glorious period, I do not care much if we win the PL this year or next year, I became a fan because of Peter Schmeicel in 90‘s then felt in love with our playing style and vibes around us. I am in my mid thirty and all I want to see is united finding the right pathway again and I trust Ole. I could be wrong but I like the positive vibe Ole brought to the team and I know he is a big fan of united and he cares. Of course, he may not be as talented as many big names around, which would be problematic in the process but I trust for now because I see kind of progress!
Good answer. I think most people can see there’s more determination in our team and as you say positivity. Looking at all the comebacks and now we don’t seem to go on very long runs of bad form there is clear improvement. I, like you, can handle a bit longer without FA cups/ League cups if we steadily get closer to league and CL contenders
 

wolvored

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Would you rather:

Scenario A:

This year we finish 3rd, 9 points behind City
Go out in FA cup semi
Go out in Europa League

Next year we finish 2nd, 3 points behind the winners
Don’t win any cups but get to CL quarters

The year after
Finish 2nd on goal difference from the winners
Don’t win any cups but get to CL semis

Net result: progress in league and CL but no trophies

OR

Scenario B:

This year finish 4th and win FA cup
Next year finish 5th, go out in CL groups. Win Europa

The year after finish 5th and win League Cup

Net result, no progress in league standings or CL, but three trophies?
3 trophies that is progress winning feck all isn't. You might as well finish 20 points behind in second than 1 still counts the same
 

R'hllor

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Holy shit those scenarios :lol:
 

Brightonian

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Nagelsmann for one. His Leipzig team, on a fraction of our budget showed us up this season. Let's not act like there isn't a league full of managers better than Ole for a start though.
What? :lol: We thrashed them 5-0 in Germany! It could easily have been more. It was a total dismantling of Nagelsmann's approach which made him look like a kid playing at being a manager. And sure, they came back and beat us 3-2 here, which was a major feck-up. But even on balance that's a 7-3 aggregate scoreline.
 

Brightonian

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'Well drilled' seems to be the new one.

I bet these posters hated the 12/13 season with the 'individual brilliance' of Van Persie, fuming with Cantona in the 90s and demanded Ferguson out when Ronaldo was firing us to the double in 08.
Quite. Not to mention most of these brilliant 'individuals' were either signed by Ole or have become 'brilliant' during his tenure.
 

Cast5

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No. That's not what I said. You asked me to define what I meant, and I did.

The best manager currently Guardiola, is no different to how LVG was. He expects the players to stay in position, and follow his plan. The best attacking managers all have a framework set up which meticulously puts everything in place, to get the ball up to the final third, then the team is trusted to finish the job. But I don't see any evidence of that happening here with Ole. Which is why we will always be off the level of the top sides in Europe until that changes imo.
People talking about LVG’s well drilled attacking football, if that’s what some fans want I give up, LVG’s press conferences were far more entertaining than the games. There were games under LVG that for the first time in 20+ years of watching United that I actually fell sleep at half time whilst sober. The nil nil’s please don’t take me back :(

Even though a lot of games were hard to watch I still never wanted him out and never spent all my energy spreading negativity throughout the fan base.
 

Crustanoid

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3 trophies that is progress winning feck all isn't. You might as well finish 20 points behind in second than 1 still counts the same
So you don’t think being a regular title challenger is progress?

But mediocrity in PL&CL plus minor cup(s) is?
 

Tom Cato

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No. That's not what I said. You asked me to define what I meant, and I did.

The best manager currently Guardiola, is no different to how LVG was. He expects the players to stay in position, and follow his plan. The best attacking managers all have a framework set up which meticulously puts everything in place, to get the ball up to the final third, then the team is trusted to finish the job. But I don't see any evidence of that happening here with Ole. Which is why we will always be off the level of the top sides in Europe until that changes imo.

We are literally outscoring Manchester City. The team is doing a better job of finishing the job in the final third than Manchester City are.

Our problems are only defensive.

To argue that we're not a top team in Europe while ignoring the fact that no team scores more in the Premier League is a bit odd, but I guess when you have an agenda everything goes.
 

wolvored

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So you don’t think being a regular title challenger is progress?

But mediocrity in PL&CL plus minor cup(s) is?
No it means you have stood still and accepted 2nd place every season is progress.
So Ole your Utd career what did you win. Nothing but we were runners up for 3 of the 4 seasons I was there or, We won the FA cup twice and League cup once. More trophies than any other manager in the first 4 years they managed Utd. Which would look better in history and on your CV?
 

Majima

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We are literally outscoring Manchester City. The team is doing a better job of finishing the job in the final third than Manchester City are.

Our problems are only defensive.

To argue that we're not a top team in Europe while ignoring the fact that no team scores more in the Premier League is a bit odd, but I guess when you have an agenda everything goes.
We are not drilled in the same way as them whatsoever, it's not even worth going there. They average 100 in a good season, let's see what we finish on.

I certainly don't agree that our problems are only defensive, but if they are, can you explain our failings in all matches vs. the big 6 this season, now that they have made the adjustment of not naïvely leaving space in behind for us?

Our record this season is played 6, won 0, drawn 4, lost 2, scored 1, 7 against, and four 0-0's in total, with three 0-0's in the past 3 matches. We've also played 4 home matches.

Can you also explain our xG stats if we supposedly create lot's of good chances? At the moment xG aligns with the eye test that we're struggling to create them.

I can make that observation based on a number of factors, but also on our continued parking of the bus/turtling whenever we meet any of them. Bit odd for a team on that level to play so conservatively, when it's not even working anymore?
 
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Tom Cato

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We are not drilled in the same way as them whatsoever, it's not even worth going there. They average 100 in a good season, let's see what we finish on.

I certainly don't agree that our problems are only defensive, but if they are, can you explain our failings in all matches vs. the big 6 this season, now that they have made the adjustment of not naïvely leaving space in behind for us?

Our record this season is played 6, won 0, drawn 4, lost 2, scored 1, 7 against, and four 0-0's in total, with three 0-0's in the past 3 matches. We've also played 4 home matches.

Can you also explain our xG stats if we supposedly create lot's of good chances? At the moment xG aligns with the eye test that we're struggling to create them.

I can make that observation based on a number of factors, but also on our continued parking of the bus/turtling whenever we meet any of them. Bit odd for a team on that level to play so conservatively, when it's not even working anymore?
If I had it in me, I would dig out possessiondata and heatmaps.

But I just ate a huge dinner and I'm falling asleep in my office chair trying to digest it, so I'll just say that we score more than anyone and no amount of complaining will change that reality, unless you become Thanos, in which case it was the other guy that wrote this.
 

meamth

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If you don't remember us being well drilled under LVG, I don't know what you was watching. All of the former players praised the level of detail he went into. We was regularly controlling possession with Smalling, Jones, Blind, Fellaini, Rooney & Young. You think that was possible without coaching?
But the football is atrocious. Let's put that to bed.
 

motsjo

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we score more than anyone and no amount of complaining will change that reality
City have scored 50 league goals in 25 games, we have 53. What will you say when they surpass us again, which they surely will? 15 of our goals came in two freak matches.

I'm curious as to what this 'tactic' is that you seem to think Ole is bringing to United. Is it not simply counterattacking and hoping for individual brilliance? (yeah yeah, I said the forbidden phrase). I'm reasonably happy about our current position, but you must surely see that the way we play isn't sustainable. As soon as teams stop playing a high line we really struggle. Matches against teams like Leeds, the first Leipzig one, even the City games last season don't happen any more because teams will sit back now. Which is understandable, since pretty much any team can score against us these days without going all out attack.

This isn't aimed just at you btw, but to all those who have such faith in Ole. I really don't see us getting any better than we currently are under him.
 

Tom Cato

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City have scored 50 league goals in 25 games, we have 53. What will you say when they surpass us again, which they surely will? 15 of our goals came in two freak matches.

I'm curious as to what this 'tactic' is that you seem to think Ole is bringing to United. Is it not simply counterattacking and hoping for individual brilliance? (yeah yeah, I said the forbidden phrase). I'm reasonably happy about our current position, but you must surely see that the way we play isn't sustainable. As soon as teams stop playing a high line we really struggle. Matches against teams like Leeds, the first Leipzig one, even the City games last season don't happen any more because teams will sit back now. Which is understandable, since pretty much any team can score against us these days without going all out attack.

This isn't aimed just at you btw, but to all those who have such faith in Ole. I really don't see us getting any better than we currently are under him.
14 of theirs came in 3.

They might score more than us.. and they might not.

We're 3 ahead after 25 matches.

Martial, Greenwood and Rashford are all having sub-par seasons, Martial in particular. What happens when AND if they hit scoring streaks? For all the efforts to sell ourselves short, there's very little look at where we can realistically improve.
 

motsjo

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14 of theirs came in 3.

They might score more than us.. and they might not.

We're 3 ahead after 25 matches.

Martial, Greenwood and Rashford are all having sub-par seasons, Martial in particular. What happens when AND if they hit scoring streaks? For all the efforts to sell ourselves short, there's very little look at where we can realistically improve.
My point is, City beating West Brom 5-0 isn't a freak result. Us beating Southampton 9-0 is. I agree we can improve. Clearly we can. What I don't agree with is playing two holding midfielders against virtually all kinds of opposition. Or keeping a mistake-prone defense for match after match. That's on Ole. I'm not ole-out for what it's worth (which I know is pretty much nothing, haha), but I do hope we can get someone better in the summer. I think he's reached his ceiling, sadly.