Why would Pogba want to leave United now?

IRELANDUNITED

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I think the most likely scenario is he stays next season, talks to a few clubs about joining them on a free but realizes that nobody else will pay him the wages that United are willing to so he signs a new contract with us.
 

redshaw

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It's not like he was the better player in the final for us, perhaps McTom even out played him. For someone looking for a huge wage or to jump onboard some world class team he didn't stand out in any way during a Europa final.
 

welshwingwizard

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I don't want to waste your 10 posts a day for this discussion only but I really disagree with Bruno being a ten. We play him as a ten but again, he doesn't play that role for Portugal, for example. I think he's more a 8.

I am no football expert but I definitely think Pogba and Bruno can play as two 8s IF (big one) we had a defensive midfielder who'd allow this to be the case. We've seen Bruno is happy to do defensive work, if needed, and so is Pogba. We just need a strong CDM and I'm sure Pogba and Bruno can then back him up in the defensive aspect, while being devastating upfront.



This bolded is nonsense. As I said, you can find posts from me dating years where I said we should sell Pogba. But I'm not blind to reality.

You think Pogba's been afforded more leeway than others because he's from the academy? Have you been paying attention to our fanbase since the first year he's been here? He's been constantly criticised for everything that's wrong with us on the pitch but when he's not there, we look pedestrian, to say the least. He's a genuine world-class player but he's not Messi and people expecting him to be are fools.

Finally, this fallacy about output. I watch the games, I don't need numbers to tell me what to think. I have enough of those in my day job. Making this the crux of your argument is pretty meaningless when Fernandes basically plays as a second striker in some of these games while Pogba's been stuck baby-sitting McFred or some other crap midfielder for most of his United carrier. The one time he wasn't and he had a good support of Matic and Herrera, he was excellent.
You were the one who was comparing Bruno and Pogba in terms of talent. If you don't want to use stats to discuss this because they are in different positions then fine. Let's base it on individual and team impact and influence....now tell me with a straight face that Pogba is better than Bruno.

The reality is that pogba may be better at things but unless he does it on the pitch on a regular basis then it is all hypothetical. It's like those people who said Quaresma was more talented than Ronaldo....well ok, but by what metric because talent alone doesn't mean anything.

And what I meant about being a united youth player is that I think a lot of the hype around pogba came from the fact that he was known as one or our products who was talented but got away. I think he was great at Juve but not as special as we made out. He wasn't a 90 million player. So that expectation has followed him here as has the belief he is amazing. I just don't think he has ever been as good as we have talked him up to be. And our accommodating him has always been on this vision of what he should he as opposed to the reality of a good but not great player.
 

jackal&hyde

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I am not sure what you are basing that on, we are more likely to finish 4th next season than overtake City. Pogba hasn't been that good for us anyway so he won't be a big loss.
I'm hearing that for 2 years now but reality keeps getting in the way of those predictions.
 

Andrew7582

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I'm hearing that for 2 years now but reality keeps getting in the way of those predictions.
Chelsea had Sarri and Lampard as manager during that period, they have a proper world class manager now and will further strengthen their squad this summer. They will be a different kettle of fish next season and so will Liverpool who were ruined by injuries this season.
 

Brexit_Brigade

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I don't want to waste your 10 posts a day for this discussion only but I really disagree with Bruno being a ten. We play him as a ten but again, he doesn't play that role for Portugal, for example. I think he's more a 8.

I am no football expert but I definitely think Pogba and Bruno can play as two 8s IF (big one) we had a defensive midfielder who'd allow this to be the case. We've seen Bruno is happy to do defensive work, if needed, and so is Pogba. We just need a strong CDM and I'm sure Pogba and Bruno can then back him up in the defensive aspect, while being devastating upfront.
I definitely think Fernandes has more to his game than he shows when we play him in this role - actually feels like a lot of the most frustrating things about his game (which you've already mentioned) stem from his current role and seeming instructions to look for the killer ball every time, and he's perfectly capable of being more responsible. But my main point was that as long as he's producing in that role you'd still have to say he's doing his job as a number ten.

Regarding playing him and Pogba together as 8s, it's something I'd love to see and loads of people have been calling for it. But the big issue for me isn't so much Pogba and Fernandes's work rate, that's something they're both capable of (even though Pogba gets accused of "laziness" and "not giving a feck" all the time). The problem is I don't think either of them has the defensive awareness you need to be useful without the ball in a three, and they're both prone to giving it away in silly spots. That's a risk even if you have a world class one-man midfield like Fernandinho or Casemiro behind them.
 

jackal&hyde

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Chelsea had Sarri and Lampard as manager during that period, they have a proper world class manager now and will further strengthen their squad this summer. They will be a different kettle of fish next season and so will Liverpool who were ruined by injuries this season.
That's how football goes though. Maybe City will have injuries next season or maybe us. We will also improve anyway. Under rating us is becoming a meme by now. If we strengthen properly the most rational prediction is a title challenge, not barely making top 4.
 

Andrew7582

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That's how football goes though. Maybe City will have injuries next season or maybe us. We will also improve anyway. Under rating us is becoming a meme by now. If we strengthen properly the most rational prediction is a title challenge, not barely making top 4.
I don't think it's rational to expect Ole to outperform Klopp and Tuchel under normal circumstances. Rational thinking is based on logic and evidence. So I invite everyone to compare Ole's managerial CV with Pep's, Klopp's, and Tuchel's and decide what a rational expectation is. And that's my post limit reached for today, see you tomorrow.
 

jackal&hyde

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I don't think it's rational to expect Ole to outperform Klopp and Tuchel under normal circumstances. Rational thinking is based on logic and evidence. So I invite everyone to compare Ole's managerial CV with Pep's, Klopp's, and Tuchel's and decide what a rational expectation is. And that's my post limit reached for today, see you tomorrow.
On the surface it makes sense but again, reality does not work like that. If it did we would have had a couple of titles under Mourinho and Spurs one as well. Do you know how long Klopp has been manager at Pool and how many titles he has? Six years and one title. Ole has already outperformed Klopp in one of his two seasons (also out performed him season by season), beat Pep away 3 times in a row and beat Tuchel 2 times away in the CL. Nobody knows if we can win the league with Ole but put some respect to his name because he earned it.
 

The United

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Again, it's Pogba all the way when it comes to selling him. I'm no Pogba fanboy, I just think he's been misused by us and our biggest mistake was not cashing in 3 years ago and solidifying our midfield. That also has a lot to do with our fluid managerial appointments since SAF left. He's also very injury-prone and overall not reliable enough over a whole season. But our club cares more about marketing performance than sporting performance and so he's still here.

I'd personally keep Bruno but I also think he's not the hot commodity many people think him to be when it comes to other clubs wanting him. As I said, he's been amazing for us because we have a huge hole in terms of leadership and general drive to succeed. But his ball retention is awful, he makes so many dodgy decisions in front of our box that he's frankly been a liability in quite a few games. However, he's also got that moment of brilliance in him and that's why he's forgiven for a lot of things that hinder our overall progression. In other top clubs, he won't shine the same way.
Regarding Pogba, I think it is time that people should drop stuff like how the club has misused him. It is not true. Pogba is a supreme talented player and can play everywhere at a very good level across the midfield WHEN he is in the mood. But, that does not happen often and more importantly consistently. People say a lot about what positions he would be best and guess what. He played from being excellent to giving away free goals to oppositions in all those positions. If Covid didn't happen, he would have gone last summer. So, it is hard to blame on the club for not selling him at the right time.

Most of famous United players were generally in Bruno's shoes before they signed for us - relatively known but clubs would not take gamble on them. So, I could care less about how many clubs were not in for him before he signed for us. We should only care what he can do for us. If you are a manager of Pep type, you would hate his ball retention but if you are like a SAF type, you probably would love how his risk taking just for a few moments of absolute brilliance which do not forget most fans (used to) watch the games for. I put 'use to' in a ( ) because I am not even sure what the fans want nowadays or if their expectations are realistic anymore. It is just a different preference as long as the player has acceptable contributions.

The point is that why move the player in a position who is doing an excellent job for another player who plays how he likes depending on the day? Bruno's contribution/influence might be a bit less than normal as 8 and what if Pogba could not cover (let alone add) the rest of contribution? We would end up with even a worse situation. So, why would a manger risk that?
 
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oz insomniac

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If Pogba does get moved, is there enough confidence in Woodward and Judge that they will negotiate a decent fee or swap. Woody hasn’t actually left the building and the dynamic duo just don’t seem to get the nuances involved in extensions or outgoing transfers.

Couple that with real backing to strengthen the roster, not Glazerspeak but action, and we may well be at a crossroads given the clubs at our so called level seem more likely to spend and get stronger this offseason. If moving Pogba enables other signings, then it’s a not brainer, or in the case of our esteemed CEO a no brain
 

TsuWave

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It's not like he was the better player in the final for us, perhaps McTom even out played him. For someone looking for a huge wage or to jump onboard some world class team he didn't stand out in any way during a Europa final.
you think potential suitors assess a player’s quality and value based solely on isolated games/finals?

Bruno is considered by many on this board the second coming. Where was he in that final? Does it mean he’s not a good player?
 
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sglowrider

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If Pogba does get moved, is there enough confidence in Woodward and Judge that they will negotiate a decent fee or swap. Woody hasn’t actually left the building and the dynamic duo just don’t seem to get the nuances involved in extensions or outgoing transfers.

Couple that with real backing to strengthen the roster, not Glazerspeak but action, and we may well be at a crossroads given the clubs at our so called level seem more likely to spend and get stronger this offseason. If moving Pogba enables other signings, then it’s a not brainer, or in the case of our esteemed CEO a no brain
What do you consider a decent fee?
 

oz insomniac

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What do you consider a decent fee?
Well, the so called experts should be able to negotiate a fee close to,what Villa expect for Grealish given the profile of someone like Pogba, but don’t know that they have the expertise to do that. Consider also the behind the scenes workings of Rialo, so that’s to be taken into account, then again they are getting paid over 7 figures to achieve results. Are we seeing that ?
 

sglowrider

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Well, the so called experts should be able to negotiate a fee close to,what Villa expect for Grealish given the profile of someone like Pogba, but don’t know that they have the expertise to do that. Consider also the behind the scenes workings of Rialo, so that’s to be taken into account, then again they are getting paid over 7 figures to achieve results. Are we seeing that ?
The diff is that Grealish just signed a new contract last year and Pogs is on the last year of his current contract.
 

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I definitely think Fernandes has more to his game than he shows when we play him in this role - actually feels like a lot of the most frustrating things about his game (which you've already mentioned) stem from his current role and seeming instructions to look for the killer ball every time, and he's perfectly capable of being more responsible. But my main point was that as long as he's producing in that role you'd still have to say he's doing his job as a number ten.

Regarding playing him and Pogba together as 8s, it's something I'd love to see and loads of people have been calling for it. But the big issue for me isn't so much Pogba and Fernandes's work rate, that's something they're both capable of (even though Pogba gets accused of "laziness" and "not giving a feck" all the time). The problem is I don't think either of them has the defensive awareness you need to be useful without the ball in a three, and they're both prone to giving it away in silly spots. That's a risk even if you have a world class one-man midfield like Fernandinho or Casemiro behind them.
He's given freedom to do as he wishes, I'd very much doubt he's told to play a killer ball every time. If you're getting frustrated, I'd suggest you look at his output and not overly focus on the moments where it doesn't go right for him. The game is supposed to be exciting, not simply for those who look to find continual faults.
 

redshaw

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you think potential suitors assess a player’s quality and value based solely on isolated games/finals?
No.

Also my point wasn't related to potential suitors in any way.
 

SAFMUTD

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It amazes me that there's been no talks about his renewal, I mean I think the standard procedure is he either signs right now or we sell him.

But it seems we are determined to put ourselves in a situation where we either have to massively overpay him or he gets to leave on a free. Really amateur stuff.
 

RuudTom83

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It amazes me that there's been no talks about his renewal in the media, I mean I think the standard procedure is he either signs right now or we sell him.
Let me edit that for you ;)

I'd like to believe the club have asked Paul what he wants to do and have a plan for both outcomes...just because its not all over the back pages doesn't mean the club have totally forgot about it.
 

Andrew7582

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On the surface it makes sense but again, reality does not work like that. If it did we would have had a couple of titles under Mourinho and Spurs one as well.
If reality didn't work like that the best managers wouldn't get the best jobs most of the time, but yet they do. There are exceptions when a world class manager will fail in a job of course, but that doesn't mean it's not better to have one.

Do you know how long Klopp has been manager at Pool and how many titles he has? Six years and one title.
He also reached two CL finals in that time, winning one. He also finished one of those seasons second on 97 points, it is highly unusual to not win the title with that high of a points total so I think it's fair to give Klopp a pass on that one.

Ole has already outperformed Klopp in one of his two seasons
That is why I mentioned ''under normal circumstances''. The amount of injuries Liverpool had all in the same area of the pitch is very far from normal circumstances. It is equivalent to us having to play without Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly or Tuanzebe for months on end, how do you think we would have coped under those circumstances? They only finished 5 points behind us in the end btw despite that.

Chelsea having a rookie manager who was only hired due to his club legend status is also not normal circumstances. Next season will give us a more accurate picture of where we are.
 

Dante

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If he scores a couple and assists a couple during the Euros, PSG or Real will be in for him for £50m.
 

TsuWave

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The player himself.
You said for someone looking to move/wage bump he didn't stand out in a final. To which I asked if you think potential suitors assess players solely on isolated games/finals. Whichever team Pogba wants to move to would be a potential suitor for him to move.
 

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He's given freedom to do as he wishes, I'd very much doubt he's told to play a killer ball every time. If you're getting frustrated, I'd suggest you look at his output and not overly focus on the moments where it doesn't go right for him. The game is supposed to be exciting, not simply for those who look to find continual faults.
Literally said in my post that his output is great, but okay.

It's not diminishing the excitement of the game to point out what a player could be doing even better.
 

jackal&hyde

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If reality didn't work like that the best managers wouldn't get the best jobs most of the time, but yet they do. There are exceptions when a world class manager will fail in a job of course, but that doesn't mean it's not better to have one.



He also reached two CL finals in that time, winning one. He also finished one of those seasons second on 97 points, it is highly unusual to not win the title with that high of a points total so I think it's fair to give Klopp a pass on that one.



That is why I mentioned ''under normal circumstances''. The amount of injuries Liverpool had all in the same area of the pitch is very far from normal circumstances. It is equivalent to us having to play without Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly or Tuanzebe for months on end, how do you think we would have coped under those circumstances? They only finished 5 points behind us in the end btw despite that.

Chelsea having a rookie manager who was only hired due to his club legend status is also not normal circumstances. Next season will give us a more accurate picture of where we are.
I will mostly address the last point of next season being the one that paints the accurate picture. I believe that is false. What other teams do is not an indication to whether we are progressing or not. Looking at our own season, we had 6 defeats, just like City, and 3 of them came at the early stages in a time where we had no pre season. I know some people want to dismiss the importance of preparation but it is what it is. 2 others came when we had a game every 2 days. I know it sounds like excuses, but if we are prepared to make excuses for other teams then we should also be aware of our own circumstances. It is disingenuous to the core to look at other clubs and the problems they faced while at the same time ignoring what we've gone through; that is not being rational or objective, it is being agenda driven.

The main difference from second to first this season has been the high nr. of draws. Looking at how unbalanced we are in attack on the RW, improvement here is an obvious point to increase total points in a season. The other is the strength in depth; a point where Liverpool also suffer from and a main reason Klopp only has one title in 6 years, why Rodgers crumbles at the end, same as Poch before.

I'm 100% sure we will improve next season. But will Chelsea and City improve more still? They are already ahead of us as far as the squad goes so it's up to us to make smart decisions and spend the money. We already messed up last summer.

As far as the manager goes, you know we are a few games away to breaking the "invincibles" record away? Does a poor manager do that? We have something like 3 wins in a row against City and Pep away, beat PSG twice and destroyed Leipzig, Leeds and set a record with a hipster manager and his Southampton. There might be issues with some of Oles decisions, issues with our set plays, but they all fall in comparison with the issues we have with the squad when compared to the only team that finished above us.
 

Hugh Jass

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If he scores a couple and assists a couple during the Euros, PSG or Real will be in for him for £50m.
I think that would be the max we could get him for. Circa the 40 million pound more like.
 

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I'm honestly not arsed what he chooses now, hasn't been nearly as good here as I thought he'd be.
 

SAFMUTD

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Let me edit that for you ;)

I'd like to believe the club have asked Paul what he wants to do and have a plan for both outcomes...just because its not all over the back pages doesn't mean the club have totally forgot about it.
You are totally right, but there's always talk in the media about the players renewals it's strange there's no fuss about it.
 

Eriku

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He's given freedom to do as he wishes, I'd very much doubt he's told to play a killer ball every time. If you're getting frustrated, I'd suggest you look at his output and not overly focus on the moments where it doesn't go right for him. The game is supposed to be exciting, not simply for those who look to find continual faults.
People used to moan about Giggsy doing that. Thank goodness they’re both confident enough to keep looking up and trying to thread those needles.
 

Commentary

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If Pogba lets his contract run down he can go anywhere he wants, for a large fee.

It is possible Manchester United might win one premier league title, but the Premier League has become super competitive, and despite spending, the Glazer's personal wealth is closer to Liverpool than City or Chelsea.

If he goes to Real Madrid he has a better chance of winning multiple league titles, Barcelona is in decline, and Real Madrid financially are still the kings of La Liga.
 

Andrew7582

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I will mostly address the last point of next season being the one that paints the accurate picture. I believe that is false. What other teams do is not an indication to whether we are progressing or not. Looking at our own season, we had 6 defeats, just like City, and 3 of them came at the early stages in a time where we had no pre season. I know some people want to dismiss the importance of preparation but it is what it is. 2 others came when we had a game every 2 days. I know it sounds like excuses, but if we are prepared to make excuses for other teams then we should also be aware of our own circumstances. It is disingenuous to the core to look at other clubs and the problems they faced while at the same time ignoring what we've gone through; that is not being rational or objective, it is being agenda driven.

The main difference from second to first this season has been the high nr. of draws. Looking at how unbalanced we are in attack on the RW, improvement here is an obvious point to increase total points in a season. The other is the strength in depth; a point where Liverpool also suffer from and a main reason Klopp only has one title in 6 years, why Rodgers crumbles at the end, same as Poch before.

I'm 100% sure we will improve next season. But will Chelsea and City improve more still? They are already ahead of us as far as the squad goes so it's up to us to make smart decisions and spend the money. We already messed up last summer.

As far as the manager goes, you know we are a few games away to breaking the "invincibles" record away? Does a poor manager do that? We have something like 3 wins in a row against City and Pep away, beat PSG twice and destroyed Leipzig, Leeds and set a record with a hipster manager and his Southampton. There might be issues with some of Oles decisions, issues with our set plays, but they all fall in comparison with the issues we have with the squad when compared to the only team that finished above us.
I am not ignoring our own problems, however I do think Chelsea and Liverpool will improve next season to a greater degree than we will for the reasons I already mentioned. Klopp has already achieved 97 points and 99 points seasons at Liverpool, that's not something that Ole can compete with if they get close to that level again.

The foundations of a prem/cl winning team are not in place for us in terms of the way we play. It is very similar to when we finished second with Mourinho, some may have argued at the time that we were progressing based on the second place finish but in reality the football we were playing was shit and wasn't going to lead to us winning anything major. It is a similar situation now except the difference is we have a better quality squad than we did then. Signing a couple of expensive players this summer isn't going to fix the coaching or in game management issues, we could have had £80 million Sancho on the right wing against Villareal and it wouldn't have made much difference at all, the collective performance would still have been shit.
 

redmanx

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Since when did this happen? He wanted to leave in 2019 and was even recorded on camera saying so .
But he didnt; why? In 2019 there were more clubs who could have afforded the transfer fee and matched his wages. Yes he said he wanted to leave but perhaps he got too comfortable, perhaps he just lacks ambition. I just wish he had gone!
 

redmanx

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I mean, that just isn't true. And I say this, as someone who is a fan of his.

Ole gave him that free role and it worked for about 3 months until the team lost its legs and found that Pogba just wasn't reliable enough off the ball. We then struggled massively while he was out and had to be forced into buying Bruno to play in the position that was initially earmarked for Pogba because otherwise, we'd have not got in the CL and Ole would have lost his job. Bruno then comes in and immediately elevates the level of the team in a way that Pogba simply never did and his fans didn't have to use any and every excuse in the book to alleviate him of any responsibility like you are doing with Pogba.

Anyhoos, I digress. We then reverted Pogba back to the double pivot with Matic. It again, worked well for a short period of time before his inadequacies again, came to the fore. He then gets injured again, and from his return, we've had to play him off left, which again, started off well, before petering out a little.

Are you sensing any pattern here?

Bruno has had the sort of impact Pogba could only have dreamed of making. He isn't as naturally talented as Pogba, but he's a) much fitter than him, and b) much more reliable than him too.

I think when Pogba's career ends, I think he's going to look back at his first move from Utd with a tinge of regret. He has a remarkably complete skillset but moving when he did meant that he never refined it and put it all together. The tactical deficiencies he had in the reserves at Utd, are still there today. Juve under Conte and Allegri never bothered to hone him and make him that complete midfielder that he could and should have been, and instead just let him do what he wanted off the left with Pirlo, Marchisio and Vidal all doing the hard yards in terms of proper midfield play. When he was given the reigns to run the midfield, or to run the attack as the 10 at both Juve and here, he flattered to deceive and that's because he's missing that all-important tactical acumen from his game.

Fergie stripped Ronaldo down as a player to his base elements and then proceeded to build him back up and only gave him a free role after he learned to play as part of a team and not for himself. It took him 3 years to learn, but once he did, he was given the keys to the team and that free role. Pogba left before he could go through that process, and it shows in his performances.
Bruno cannot be brilliant every game, but over the season his contribution to the team has far outweighed Pogbas, plus Bruno never stops trying, hes always available, always helping out, even in his few bad games; you cannot say the same of Pogba who has little interest in running back, defending etc although he has done so at times during those short spells when he can be bothered.
 

cyril C

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Correct, he doesn't want to leave now, because he can at best get 200K a week, worse off than what he is earning now. He would like to leave next season as free agent, such that he will get 500-600K a week, taking into account of no transfer fee.

The Club is in a dilemma now. Sell him this summer but no-one can afford his wage demand, unless we subsidise his wage. Meeting his 400K/w demand is ridiculous. So most likely scenario is to allow him to leave for free.
 

hobbers

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He doesn't want to leave, he wants to stay and get a big fat pay check that will put him ahead of De Gea.

Real and Barca are up financial shit creek and cant afford his salary or transfer fee with other priorities. Juve and PSG are his only other options and we don't even know if PSG are interested at all.
 

holdsteady

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If we don't sell him then we simply HAVE to win the league this season. Losing him for no fee AGAIN would be ridiculous
 

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Regarding Pogba, I think it is time that people should drop stuff like how the club has misused him. It is not true. Pogba is a supreme talented player and can play everywhere at a very good level across the midfield WHEN he is in the mood. But, that does not happen often and more importantly consistently. People say a lot about what positions he would be best and guess what. He played from being excellent to giving away free goals to oppositions in all those positions. If Covid didn't happen, he would have gone last summer. So, it is hard to blame on the club for not selling him at the right time.

Most of famous United players were generally in Bruno's shoes before they signed for us - relatively known but clubs would not take gamble on them. So, I could care less about how many clubs were not in for him before he signed for us. We should only care what he can do for us. If you are a manager of Pep type, you would hate his ball retention but if you are like a SAF type, you probably would love how his risk taking just for a few moments of absolute brilliance which do not forget most fans (used to) watch the games for. I put 'use to' in a ( ) because I am not even sure what the fans want nowadays or if their expectations are realistic anymore. It is just a different preference as long as the player has acceptable contributions.

The point is that why move the player in a position who is doing an excellent job for another player who plays how he likes depending on the day? Bruno's contribution/influence might be a bit less than normal as 8 and what if Pogba could not cover (let alone add) the rest of contribution? We would end up with even a worse situation. So, why would a manger risk that?
I just don't think he's happy here for whatever reason. He's unmotivated.

I think if he does well with France at the Euro's then that will confirm that he's much better elsewhere than at United.