yeah I agree, I’m in the same mindset. I reckon the closest thing to a miracle next season would be 2nd and that can really only happen if everyone else in the league somehow has a dreadful season as well, which is very highly unlikely
Will things get better or worse next season?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
I think it will stay about the same.
City and Liverpool will be the top two far and away, and a lot will depend on Chelsea losing players because of their situation. If they get gutted, we could maybe compete with Arsenal and Spurs for third assuming we bring in 4-5 players in the areas we are in need. If Chelsea remain mostly intact though they'll be well clear of us and we'll be battling for 4th-6th.
City and Liverpool will be the top two far and away, and a lot will depend on Chelsea losing players because of their situation. If they get gutted, we could maybe compete with Arsenal and Spurs for third assuming we bring in 4-5 players in the areas we are in need. If Chelsea remain mostly intact though they'll be well clear of us and we'll be battling for 4th-6th.
It can always get worse. Just look at Arsenal and Spurs
It depends on if we sort out our midfield. I think the other areas of the pitch can improve to an acceptable level for now, but midfield is simply not competitive.
Improvement on this season. This season has been a disaster. We’ll target 4th and anything else is a bonus. I’d really expect a proper run at a trophy like europa league or league cup too next season.
Worse. Prove me wrong, Glazers.
Top 4 at best!
But the manager needs to be able to work on his plan and allowed to fail without worrying about his job or pleasing a certain player.
We all know after a couple of draws the geniuses at Sky will be hammering every aspect of the club.
But the main goal for next season should be restoring the manager as the main man at Old Trafford. A cup win would be a very nice bonus.
But the manager needs to be able to work on his plan and allowed to fail without worrying about his job or pleasing a certain player.
We all know after a couple of draws the geniuses at Sky will be hammering every aspect of the club.
But the main goal for next season should be restoring the manager as the main man at Old Trafford. A cup win would be a very nice bonus.
I don't think it'll be worse. We're going to have a new manager, for a start. We've played this one with an interim for half of it and a failing manager for the other half, it's not particularly hard to improve upon.
How much better really depends on who it is and the business that gets done in the summer as we have so many things to address it is scary.
How much better really depends on who it is and the business that gets done in the summer as we have so many things to address it is scary.
If a CDM/RW/ST is brought in for our missing CDM And Greenwood/ronaldo/cavani, we can easily get 3rd/4th. If not, fighting for 4th-6th.
I think next season will be a lot like this one: some good performances, some bad; a thumping by City and Liverpool; there will be a new/different player to ridicule and despise; our transfer targets will be laughably out of reach; the Glazers will siphon money out of the club; and the new manager will have a 4-year rebuild of which he will see probably 1 before the New Manager Out threads appear.
If we can see an upturn in the new year in our play, results etc, regardless of final league position it will be better I think. This will give us a platform for the season after. I will be very surprised if we're any better straightaway.
It will be better than this miserable season and the more optimistic among us will believe that finally, we're on the right track again. But we won't be.
I'm predicting next season to be similar, but the key is for people not to be too disheartened and bogged down with short terminism . A year focusing on the league and English cups will be crucial to the team's long term success. Liverpool went through the exact same thing, before breaking out. Perhaps I'm more optimistic than other Man United fans, but it is starting to feel like a new beginning!
In terms of the WSL, it will be hard to see just how we crack the top three places, as we were gifted a huge opportunity by City being as poor as they were for the vast majority of this season, but we failed to take full advantage sadly.
We will require one of Arsenal, Chelsea or City, to have a poor season, combined with us having a very good season.
Now I sure as heck would wish for that to be the case, it is just somewhat wishful thinking sadly I think.
We will have to really have a good summer in terms of attracting some top tier talent, but without Champions League football, that will be pretty hard to do, as we don't have the biggest budget, especially in comparison to the other "big 3".
Neither do we have the best scouting department/network, hence why so much right now, is about who the manager knows, who he has contacts with, rather than using the scouting network to find the players to take us to the next level.
At the moment, 4th place really is our ceiling, I just can't see how we crack it, and get a place in the Champions League, whilst the "big 3", are still so dominant.
We will require one of Arsenal, Chelsea or City, to have a poor season, combined with us having a very good season.
Now I sure as heck would wish for that to be the case, it is just somewhat wishful thinking sadly I think.
We will have to really have a good summer in terms of attracting some top tier talent, but without Champions League football, that will be pretty hard to do, as we don't have the biggest budget, especially in comparison to the other "big 3".
Neither do we have the best scouting department/network, hence why so much right now, is about who the manager knows, who he has contacts with, rather than using the scouting network to find the players to take us to the next level.
At the moment, 4th place really is our ceiling, I just can't see how we crack it, and get a place in the Champions League, whilst the "big 3", are still so dominant.
Sorry to bump my own thread like a twat.
But how do people feel now about next season and beyond?
I feel slightly optimistic, maybe just through hope. I like that for the first Summer for perhaps a decade or more, we will have football men making the football decisions. Football men talking to the agents and players rather than bankers speaking about Disney and social media figures. Surely the tide has to turn eventually.
But how do people feel now about next season and beyond?
I feel slightly optimistic, maybe just through hope. I like that for the first Summer for perhaps a decade or more, we will have football men making the football decisions. Football men talking to the agents and players rather than bankers speaking about Disney and social media figures. Surely the tide has to turn eventually.
Probably similar to 19/20 in comparison to 18/19. Will be some real shite early on but we will improve as the season goes on, still miles of the top and a top 3 finish the best we can get.
Hard to get much worse but without 6+ quality players in it won't get much better either.
Something we have to do though is priorities the cups. We need to win one of the Europa/Conference League, the Fa Cup or the Carling cup.
I don't want to hear any nonsense about these being Mickey Mouse cups. We aren't above them and winning a few trophies again will do the fans players and staff the world of good.
We are five years without a trophy. Can't be turning our nose up at anything these days.
Something we have to do though is priorities the cups. We need to win one of the Europa/Conference League, the Fa Cup or the Carling cup.
I don't want to hear any nonsense about these being Mickey Mouse cups. We aren't above them and winning a few trophies again will do the fans players and staff the world of good.
We are five years without a trophy. Can't be turning our nose up at anything these days.
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It all depends on how much success he has as a leader. If he gets the squad united, then he can implement his style of play and I think United then will be quite good, quite quickly. We also need to be spot on with recruitment. We will lose 6-7 players and if 3-4 players come in, they need to contribute right away. If all these things will go our way, we'll finish 3-4, which will be a decent season all things considered. Hopefully, an FA Cup or League Cup title too which of course is realistic.
Long term, optimistic. I like the work Murtagh is doing behind the scenes and for the first time since Sir Alex left I genuinely in my gut feel we have made the correct managerial appointment.
I had to convince myself on the other managers for varying reasons. Moyes I actually felt at the time was past his sell-by date as he'd stayed at Everton too long, LVG had taken Bayern to what, 3rd or 4th before they sacked him in his last club job and even that was 4/5 years before we appointed him, Mourinho was just never the right fit but he led us to trophies in his first season so you thought "maybe..." and then classic Mourinho quickly returned, Ole I always felt was a placeholder, I liked some of his early work but you knew he wasn't going to be the one to lead us back to the top. This was always my concern about Pochettino, I liked him to a degree but always had nagging doubts about him that likely wouldn't have gone away had we appointed him.
Whereas Ten Hag is on an upward trajectory, in his first role he took Go Ahead Eagles to a promotion but I really like that he had the self-awareness after that to move onto Bayern's reserves for two reasons - it gave him the opportunity to work with one of the best coaches in the world in Guardiola and it gave him the experience of working for a huge club. Taking Utrecht into Europe was another huge achievement and obviously he was dominant at Ajax which you'd think is a given but it's easy to remember they hadn't won the league for 5 years prior to his appointment.
Every time he speaks, he speaks sense and he sounds ready for the job. He's clearly aware of the task at hand, I'm a big fan of him wanting to get to work immediately with the club and walking away from Ajax a few weeks early. There's a long road ahead but if we see a season or two of progress on the pitch, a really good go at a cup or two next season, then I think we can be excited.
On a similar note, I'm looking forward to a refresh of the playing staff. Some of the names leaving have been around for a long time, are of varying levels of popularity, and I think it can only be good for a new manager coming in and having the opportunity to make the squad his own very quickly. The players out of contract are all at stages of their career where they would be unlikely to adapt to a complete different way of playing overnight and replacing them with younger, more energetic players can only be seen as a good thing. I'd like to think for the first time in a while we'll see 5 or 6 players in rather than the usual 2 or 3 too.
I think things will get better, then worse, then better again, then worse again, then much much better, then slightly worse, then better again, then much more worse, but then better but after that worse then better but then worse again, and then it’ll get better, but then slightly worse, before getting slightly better before it gets much worse, but after that it’ll get better again.
From my perspective, unless he can move out those who appear to have conspired against the recent managers, he will have an uphill struggle.
The top sides have one thing in common. Respect and committment for the manager/leader.
That of course has to be balanced by strategic signings of players with not only the right quality but the right attitude and character.
Do that and isolate any of those who don't do as they are told and that will be a step forward.
This football club has been damaged for too long by player power. That has to be changed immediately.
The top sides have one thing in common. Respect and committment for the manager/leader.
That of course has to be balanced by strategic signings of players with not only the right quality but the right attitude and character.
Do that and isolate any of those who don't do as they are told and that will be a step forward.
This football club has been damaged for too long by player power. That has to be changed immediately.
Seriously though, it’ll be a welcome miracle if we end up with a top 4 spot after the new manager‘s 1st season in charge.
It’ll take time to establish consistency and cohesion and build a side worthy of challenging.
Fans need to accept that it could take a few seasons before we become a regular top 4 side again, never mind challenging for the PL.
It might not work out either and it’ll be another decade away.
I think that if we have the transfer window we hope we're going to have then this season will be much better. A manager with a proper vision, with players he's identified that can actually fit that vision, plus some of the more negative members of the dressing room gone means we should compete for top four with confidence.
But I also have this huge and scary doubt that, because of the amount of changes behind the scenes recently, we'll feck up in the transfer market because something (a vacant or inexperienced job role, a block in workflow etc) will crop up.
Being a United supporter is fun.
Good points. Can't disagree with a lot of that.
I did think Mourinho was the right man for the short term I must confess (he's the only one I've thought would work).
Before the appointment we all knew we'd do well to see a 4th season from Mourinho, but I thought he'd attract some top players (which I suppose he'll say he did) and win us the league before he left. And we didn't even come close in terms of points.
With Ole, I'll always link his time here with that Europa Final. Right on the cusp, but doomed to never cross the line.
Unless they sign a free agent or two (Dybala? Dembele? Eriksen?) I'd tamper the expectations of 5-6 new signings. I know it's absolutely 100% needed. But realistically United aren't net spending more than £120m and nor will they receive any huge fees. So for 6 players you're looking at signing them for £20-30m each. To sign one £20m player to be a United regular next season would take some doing, let alone five or six of them.
I think after sales, it'll be about 3 or 4 signings, each at around the £40-60m mark and then the gaps filled with academy players.
I have no inside knowledge of course
But from the talk of the devils podcast / articles I've read (I'll only read from journos who attend press conferences and are more reliable, Stone, Ducker, Mitten, Whitwell) - this bolded bit may actually be an advantage more than a disadvantage
Apparently with the old strategy agents would often not know who to speak to, and they'd have to confer so it took a long time getting back and the United lot would disagree and dither and miss out on targets etc. Whereas now, they say Arnold (unlike Woodward) won't even involve himself in it and will simply refer them to Murtough, who will have all the power and all the say. I think just having one focal point and one man the agents all know to go to will help more than hinder.
That's fair enough. You're probably right but I'm just hurt from years of pain.
I fully expect us to form a world class side this summer, hit the ground running and absolutely blitz the league. I can see us in first place with five games still to go, but bagging three points against Liverpool to win the trophy at Old Trafford, with Ronaldo scoring his 30th goal of the season to clinch it.
And then as the players walk up to collect their medals, a small man in a wizard costume bouncing on a pogo stick asks Ten Hag why the players aren't wearing their special dinosaur costumes. Ten Hag asks what the feck he's talking about, so the small man says "they would have received them when they joined in the summer after your DoF filed the newly updated Premier League player registration documents" and we just see Murtough with his hands on his head realising he forgot to fill them in.
Yes, I don't disagree with your thoughts on Mourinho. While he wouldn't have been my choice I also thought we'd see a title under him, particularly after the first season with the League Cup & Europa League wins.
I have to be honest on the 5/6 signings, I'm including a free agent or two in there. I could see us going for Eriksen or even Boubacar Kamara. I think the Dybala ship has sailed with us. The fact he wants to get to work immediately could suggest to me that some of the players he has his eye on could be time critical which would suggest out of contract players, but that's purely speculation obviously. I think the value is there in the market to bring in a couple of players in that £20-25m category that would improve us, but I would question if we have the information on a lot of those players given the reports about how shocked Rangnick was with the standard of our scouting and the two main scouts being moved on.
Surely can't be much worse, although our form has been relegation level a few times this season so maybe it could.
I suspect we'll have a VERY frustrating summer compared to what many fans will be expecting. We'll struggle to move on any of our dross and I don't think we'll be nearly as active in the market as has been suggested save for some bargain hunting or maybe a last minute panic.
I think the season will be better overall though, but probably with some terribly embarrassing losses along the way as we adjust. I think that with the core of the problem players leaving and the others identified, the manager will do a decent job of getting the others playing to their strengths and in a fashion that resembles tactics and a style. I suspect we'll still fail to get top 4 but maybe finish 5th or 6th with a more promising time ahead.
I suspect we'll have a VERY frustrating summer compared to what many fans will be expecting. We'll struggle to move on any of our dross and I don't think we'll be nearly as active in the market as has been suggested save for some bargain hunting or maybe a last minute panic.
I think the season will be better overall though, but probably with some terribly embarrassing losses along the way as we adjust. I think that with the core of the problem players leaving and the others identified, the manager will do a decent job of getting the others playing to their strengths and in a fashion that resembles tactics and a style. I suspect we'll still fail to get top 4 but maybe finish 5th or 6th with a more promising time ahead.
Yes.
I agree but, I do think it will get worse before it gets better. Then better get better before it gets worse again. But if the worst case happens and it gets worse or even more worse (worser still, if you will) it surely has to get better than worse at some point?
Matic, Pogba, Lingard, Mata and Cavani are practically gone
Bailly, Axel, Williams/Telles, Chong, Pereira, Martial and Henderson(loan) will all go 100%. Could add Jones and AWB as possibilities but it'll be tough to shift those two. I understand your skepticism but there will definitely be more departures this summer than other summers. With so many players leaving there will definitely be at least 4 signings and it's reported the priority is a CB, 2CMs and a ST none of which are unrealistic because in the ST and midfield positions we already have players going out the door and we'll sell Bailly and Axel for a CB.
Marginally better. I think we'll be comfortably 5th, and in the reckoning for 4th.
I'm expecting no miracles, I have no idea how players who seem to have absorbed no coach's instructions truly well, will react to a manager who's going to push their boundaries from a work rate perspective, and then give them micro-nuanced tactics.
I'm expecting no miracles, I have no idea how players who seem to have absorbed no coach's instructions truly well, will react to a manager who's going to push their boundaries from a work rate perspective, and then give them micro-nuanced tactics.
Exactly this. Just hope that most of our fans see this and are not expecting us to transform into peak Barca within 2 months. As long as Ten Hag gets us playing to a real system, the remaining players show 100% attitude on the pitch and a couple of first XI players signed up (preferably midfield) then that will be progress.
It´s worse
It will get better but I don't think that much better. Top 4 kind of better. If given enough time a resources ETH will deliver trophies. But 1 season is not enough.
I'll put you down as a maybe
We'll see after the summer. If we buy two good midfielders and at least a good striker then there's hope. Things will get better. If we don't well it's gonna be the same or even worse I think.
I'd expect things to be better on the basis of the managerial appointment alone. If we signed nobody and the players expected to leave do leave, then if ten Hag couldn't do better than what we've seen this season he's more than likely the wrong man.
Add in some good signings and I'd expect to see a vast improvement albeit only likely to see us battling it out for 3rd at best and more competitive in the cups.
I appreciate that the team will take time to become perfect in executing his ideas, but there should generally be enough in the squad to field 11 players that are easily better than 14-16 teams in the league. Winning football matches should still be the priority, and achievable through dedicated performances.
The only way I'd accept regression would be if ten Hag looks at the squad and says "I can't field 11 players better than what 14-16 teams in the league can field", and we fail to recruit what we need to do so.
Add in some good signings and I'd expect to see a vast improvement albeit only likely to see us battling it out for 3rd at best and more competitive in the cups.
I appreciate that the team will take time to become perfect in executing his ideas, but there should generally be enough in the squad to field 11 players that are easily better than 14-16 teams in the league. Winning football matches should still be the priority, and achievable through dedicated performances.
The only way I'd accept regression would be if ten Hag looks at the squad and says "I can't field 11 players better than what 14-16 teams in the league can field", and we fail to recruit what we need to do so.
This might end up being famous last words but I can't see how our performances can get much worse.
The general level of ability in our squad is reasonable but we're about as poorly organised as is possible for a professional football team. We've also massively shot ourselves in the foot by trying to walk before we could run, abandoning a style that worked for us and stubbornly sticking to this 'progressive' style despite having the laziest and least athletic press in the league.
Even someone like Eddie Howe or Graham Potter would get this lot looking something like a football team given a full pre-season. ETH won't have to be some sort of football genius to improve us from this level.
The general level of ability in our squad is reasonable but we're about as poorly organised as is possible for a professional football team. We've also massively shot ourselves in the foot by trying to walk before we could run, abandoning a style that worked for us and stubbornly sticking to this 'progressive' style despite having the laziest and least athletic press in the league.
Even someone like Eddie Howe or Graham Potter would get this lot looking something like a football team given a full pre-season. ETH won't have to be some sort of football genius to improve us from this level.
I think it has to get better, it can't really be much worse. I think a lot of it is going to depend on how serious the board really are about supporting Ten Hag and allowing him to implement his ideas. They are making the right noises, or it seems that way, but would they really let him sell off Maguire for significantly less than they paid for him if that is what he wants? Would they really allow Rashford to be sold if he doesn't show he deserves to stay at United next season? I have my doubts about them allowing him to sell big name players and replace them with players that will function well for Ten Hag but might not have the star appeal that the Glazers ego's seem to desire.
I am optimistic, but not really convinced its going to be an easy turn around.
I am optimistic, but not really convinced its going to be an easy turn around.