I keep seeing people bring up 1 or 2 injuries and we're fecked. Bear in mind, those rivals for top 4 have very little squad depth. Do they then have far better managers? Which is it?
Will we need to revise our expectations of Ole following this transfer window?
- Thread starter VP89
- Start date
Chilwell and Silva plug the obvious holes in their defence, and I expect they'll bring in a keeper too at this rate.
I think we need to always revise our expectations on whoever our manager is, based on his performances. So definitely on Ole.
Anyhow, if we fail to seriously get any new players (for the first team), then it'll depends on our season performances. Almost always when a team did not refresh the team with new players, it gets worse... bad transfers also lead to bad season, as does poor transfers that doesn't improve the squad eg season 18/19 (Mou's tantrum also doesn't help).
Anyhow, if we fail to seriously get any new players (for the first team), then it'll depends on our season performances. Almost always when a team did not refresh the team with new players, it gets worse... bad transfers also lead to bad season, as does poor transfers that doesn't improve the squad eg season 18/19 (Mou's tantrum also doesn't help).
I see excuses being made early for Ole again.Window closes in October...... We can't wait that long... a lot of teams like Chelsea will have their players bedded in for the beginning and pick up vital points for sure.
United need to change their whole way of doing transfer business and bring in a Director who is experienced at the top level and knows football, quality, value and has foresight!
Chilwell is good going forward and he is not a good defender and Silva is coming to England for a payday.
Just because they are buying a lot of players does not guarantee anything as for every one that does well two will flop.
I think Chelsea will be better off giving plenty of games to Hudson, Abraham, Mount and James as well as Pulisic as they Have really good potential and will only get better.
I see Messi's name cropping up in this thread.
How effective will he be in a more physical league, at 33 years old?
Great player, no doubt, but wonder what others think?
How effective will he be in a more physical league, at 33 years old?
Great player, no doubt, but wonder what others think?
Ole should resign if they don't back him in the window.
Its a reason not an excuse. Anybody with eyes can see that our starting eleven is very strong and also that when it is in any way diminished we have very poor quality in place which makes a 38 game season plus Europe very difficult. Its not a convoluted or biased take, its simple and plain to see that without enormous luck in terms of fitness we will be struggling over a long season with our current squad.
In defence our reserve options are dalot, bailly and Jones (never fit) and Williams.
In midfield Fred and Mctominay are a very capable base to back up matic but in the absence of pogba or fernandes we are looking at lingard and mata.
In attack we turn to ighalo and James.
I don't see why this obvious lack of quality on our bench is such a laughable concept that can only be an 'excuse'. Its a legitimate worry.
I remember the summer of 2006. We had a good team with some young players and a lot of promise, but Chelsea just won their second title in a row and signed Ballack and Shevchenko. Their continued dominance was considered inevitable. And we know how that turned out.
Football ebbs and flows. Signings can fail (and so many expensive ones have) and even take good teams backwards. Players and teams can develop and improve. And yes, we should have scope for improvement even if we don't make big expensive signings. Not enough for a title win, probably, but surely enough so that a fourth place finish won't be considered a huge achievement.
Where do you expect us to finish?
I fully expect Ole to be sacked before the last day of the upcoming season. Probably once it becomes mathematically impossible for us to make top 4, but possibly even sooner
If he goes to City, my guess would be pretty damn effective.
It'll be a question of using him right. And Pep should know how to do that.
Not to mention that Pep is just about the only manager in the world who can plausibly assert his authority over Messi.
It depends on who is getting injured an injury to Pogba and Martial weighs higheir than an injury to Ben davies and Harry winks for instance. Arsenal had their fair share of injuries last season but they were lucky non of them were to Aubameyang whilst we lost Pogba for most of the season and Martial for a couple of months.
And do what? Go manage to Norway? Les not fools ourselves, Ole doesnt have the weight to put pressure on the board. He's lucky to be managing at this level and won't resign no matter what he's not stupid.
I'm starting to think it's not that much about luck. I mean, Pogba was rushed back from injury to play a relatively uncompetitive cup game for 120 minutes. That's 100% on Ole. It was also a decision to not go in with another striker last season, which put quite the pressure on Martial and Rashford to play every game.
Squad management is what I put this down to, fitness coaching, and managing players' injuries.
Self preservation? I'd rather walk than get the sack if I had his legacy. However, I don't see him as the kind of person to turn his back on the club though.
Obviously - yes.
The current expectation is that he keeps building a team/squad and keeps narrowing the gap to the best teams in England (that would be Liverpool and City).
If we enter the season with no significant changes as per the status quo, then this will impact the realistic expectations - of course it will.
The current expectation is that he keeps building a team/squad and keeps narrowing the gap to the best teams in England (that would be Liverpool and City).
If we enter the season with no significant changes as per the status quo, then this will impact the realistic expectations - of course it will.
Walk away meaning not getting a penny and most probably not getting any other chance to manage at top level? Yeah not happening.
Ole will be holding with teeth and nails to this job, he's probably earning more here than he has ever earn as a manager.
All the talk at the start of last season was that we'd need 100s of millions of investment to compete again, after letting so many go last year. I don't know who it was, but I remember someone saying £400m+ and it didn't seem that ridiculous given where we were.
Greenwood has surprised many of us and is well worth his place in the squad. Fred, McT and Williams also can now be considered worthwhile squad players. Our first team is really not far away from being good enough when at their best. So, add a top forward into the mix(hopefully Sancho), one central defender and a centre midfielder plus, hopefully, an extra fullback and we will be in a position to actually compete. That can probably be achieved for £220m - £250m net with a couple of expected sales. This should be achieveable for a club of our stature.
Of course, the Glazers will have once again cost us c£100m in dividends and paying off their loans so we likely won't spend what's needed. We'll maybe get a couple of players, but we aren't trying to refine a title winning squad, we are still very much playing catch up. Those required players I listed above should be the minimum. If we miss out on any of those positions then we know we won't have enough to compete in the league and CL.
We will, in essence, forgo any realistic chance of stopping city or pool winning the league, to line the pockets of the owners. Their behaviour should be criminalised.
Greenwood has surprised many of us and is well worth his place in the squad. Fred, McT and Williams also can now be considered worthwhile squad players. Our first team is really not far away from being good enough when at their best. So, add a top forward into the mix(hopefully Sancho), one central defender and a centre midfielder plus, hopefully, an extra fullback and we will be in a position to actually compete. That can probably be achieved for £220m - £250m net with a couple of expected sales. This should be achieveable for a club of our stature.
Of course, the Glazers will have once again cost us c£100m in dividends and paying off their loans so we likely won't spend what's needed. We'll maybe get a couple of players, but we aren't trying to refine a title winning squad, we are still very much playing catch up. Those required players I listed above should be the minimum. If we miss out on any of those positions then we know we won't have enough to compete in the league and CL.
We will, in essence, forgo any realistic chance of stopping city or pool winning the league, to line the pockets of the owners. Their behaviour should be criminalised.
The squad is good enough to finish 3rd/4th. Pogba, Bruno, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Matic, AWB, Shaw. All good players enough to get a comfortable top 4 finish.
I think with the front three the fear is that if Greenwood gets hurt we then have to throw in Lingard/mata/Pereira/James. In midfield as long as one of Pogba or Fernandes is fit we would be able to play a competent midfield. At cb Maguire /lindelof have great fitness records then their backups have appalling fitness records. If Ole convinced Smalling to stay one more year we could be fine.
For Glazers, top 4 is the target every year, because it's the minimum target for adidas full sponsorship. Once we succeed, the boards will only consider to sign a great player after 2 bad results at the start of next season. We will get overpaid players during that period, or may be no one because of covid.
It's the same story every summer, they are worst than Daniel Levy. So why would we put our expectation higher than these clowns?
It's the same story every summer, they are worst than Daniel Levy. So why would we put our expectation higher than these clowns?
To me the very low expectations of some (6th and trophy-less ffs) just shows how little trust people have in Ole.
How can we with that starting 11 still think we'll come 6th and the likes of Tottenham, Arsenal, and Wolves will compete with us? The only way is if there's no faith in management and all the trust is put in player quality and huge spending.
4th and a trophy is still the absolute minimum, with bridging the gap the expected outcome.
How can we with that starting 11 still think we'll come 6th and the likes of Tottenham, Arsenal, and Wolves will compete with us? The only way is if there's no faith in management and all the trust is put in player quality and huge spending.
4th and a trophy is still the absolute minimum, with bridging the gap the expected outcome.
Right now we are clearly worse than Liverpool, City and Chelsea.
If significant signings are not made, then we are in trouble.
The defence is fine, but very little depth in the attacking department.
Also, having all these problems on top of no signings does make me worried.
If significant signings are not made, then we are in trouble.
The defence is fine, but very little depth in the attacking department.
Also, having all these problems on top of no signings does make me worried.
Fair points, but I'm not convinced completely. When you look at the clatterings Rashford and Martial have to endure from rough defenders, unless Messi is specially protected, I could see him having problems.
City and Liverpool will mostly likely claim the top 2 again easily, because they are far ahead even with very little recruitment at this point, Chelsea have strengthed considerably and will probably continue to do so, and other clubs are strengthening, in fact i think we are one of the few clubs to get no one so far aren't we? If you think this will be a comfortable top 4 finish then god speed to you throughout this season, unless of course we make some good and necessary signings
If City can stop leaking goals, they will be in a different league.
Not sure how things stand that anyone could justify missing top 4 obviously that depends on the movement of Arsenal, Leicester, Spurs and Wolves
Chelsea currently have 36 players on their books. They very much have squad depth. Spurs less so.
Never been a problem for Messi. He always runs the least on the pitch (less than 10km per game) and he does very little defending. Get him in possession and he'll be fine. Only possible problem would be players intentionally try and hurt him which I can see being more likely in England than in Spain.
We're Man Utd. So no. If we don't sign the players he's partly responsible. Can't be the man for us if he can't control transfers to some extent.
That not my point. My point refers to our direct rivals for fourth, if we are to believe that Chelsea will cement third. And like you say, Spurs don't have that depth. Nor do Arsenal, nor do Wolves, nor do Leicester. So the excuses don't hold up. Fourth is bare minimum. Improved football is required. A healthier points tally.
That is my concern. Still, I'd love to see him play here, wonderful footballer.
Is the first eleven "very strong" though? Feel that is an exaggeration, strong in terms of what, competing for the top four, title, Europe?
This season gone our first eleven includes a keeper making huge errors more often than acceptable, a left back still spending a lot of time injured, a centre back that many want replaced, the worlds most expensive centre back that has been merely decent, a right back that apparently has no ability going forward, a defensive midfielder that is ageing and looked dead just a season ago, a toxic central midfielder that is inconsistant, a left winger that is inconsistant, a right winger that is really a striker longer term and still a teenager and a striker that after several years is only startin gto show consistency and still not considered a natural goalscorer.
Now the above is what I hear time and time again on here, they are not my opinions though I do agree with a few of them. Our first eleven is for me still 2/3 players short at least for a side to compete for major trophies, let alone the weaknesses behind it within a large squad. We are moving in the right direction in terms of the football we are trying to play and the performances, but I wouldnt agree the first eleven is strong, certainyl not in terms of consistency. I think the Fernandes effect has blinded some people, when his form dropped the last few games, so did ours, one players performances shouldnt be making that much of a difference, as good as he has been we are not talkign about Messi or Ronaldo here.
What I would say, even with the first eleven, inconsistency performance wise is a problem and THAT may well be due to the weakness of the players behind them. There is currently little to no competition for any of the front four players, Matic or our two centre backs
If we were to sign Sancho and someone like Partey or Thiago in midfield, I’d expect us to push for the title/come within 10 points of it.
If not, top 4.
If not, top 4.
It was evident that we are lacking in depth as we had to play the same 11 week in week out post Covid. I just can’t see the sense in buying Sancho and adding him to a depleted squad. We need to buy 3/4/5 really good players to strengthen the squad, not just one worldie
Nothing to do with little trust in Ole, it's the fact that one or two injuries (and they will happen) and we're left with playing the dross/deadwood that everyone wants rid of.
It's criminal that Ed/Judge/Glazers haven't spent to increase the quality of the squad, at least, let alone bought a marquee player such as Sancho.
No blame should be put on Ole if this situation continues.
I agree in general that we need more depth and quality. But 6th? That's just too low for where we are now, and should Ole should definitely be partially responsible if we finish lower than 4th.
We've had the habit of only blaming one entity over the years, be it just Woodward or Mourinho or LVG or Moyes. But it's usually never the case that one single entity is entirely to blame. In this case a failure to challenge will be down to Woodward, but a failure to even qualify for CL will be a collective failure of Woodward and Ole.
I think the situation is such that if we do not invest in 3 to 4 players, they don't have to be superstars, we will not finish in top 4. It is as simple as that. Chelsea are likely to add Rice and a Keeper to their already amazing window. Man City and Liverpool are as strong as they are, Arsenal have improved under Arteta and will likely buy a couple more players. I see either Arsenal or Tottenham taking the fourth spot from United.
Signing 4 players can take us from out of top 4 race to title contenders.
For eg add David Brooks, Moussa Dembele, Pau Torres and Van de Beek to this squad and suddenly we look like a unit who can compete in the league and other cups.
Signing 4 players can take us from out of top 4 race to title contenders.
For eg add David Brooks, Moussa Dembele, Pau Torres and Van de Beek to this squad and suddenly we look like a unit who can compete in the league and other cups.
We are Manchester United. Sir Alex has gone a transfer window with just Bebe, Chris Smalling, chicharito and linderergaard and still did well in that season. We are setting the bar tooo low for Ole and it seems the job is to big for him if fans keeps setting expectations lower.
My expectations will still be the same, and I expect a good challenge for the title. We have the best attack in the league, best defense, and a solid midfield with two world class midfielder. It would be a failure if we don’t win a trophy again and challenge for the title.
Ole in brigade are trying to cover Ole arse because they know his luck is slowly running out and will have to start showing his managerial capacity which not many thinks he has to elevate us to the next level.
My expectations will still be the same, and I expect a good challenge for the title. We have the best attack in the league, best defense, and a solid midfield with two world class midfielder. It would be a failure if we don’t win a trophy again and challenge for the title.
Ole in brigade are trying to cover Ole arse because they know his luck is slowly running out and will have to start showing his managerial capacity which not many thinks he has to elevate us to the next level.