Willian - worth a punt?

VP89

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Like which ones? From reports so far, most are support and admin staff. They are getting rid of Cagigao because, after their restructuring, they feel Edu will adequately cover that job. Are they right? Only time and results will tell. I agree that Luiz's days at the top are numbered and frankly he is lucky to still be starting (although he was the MOTM against City), but they have brought in two new CBs (Saliba and Mari) in addition to Holdings and Chambers. Also, in my opinion Willian and Coutinho will be very good additions to their squad, they are still more than decent players by any standards.
They've let go of their head of international scouting and various heads of regional scouting. These include the chap who was around for 24 years and vital to bringing in great gems. Then citing covid, they let go of 2 more key scouts in Brian Mcdermott, and Clarke (who I think was head of UK Scouting).

Then they let go of more regional scouts, hour by hour, who were employed in a consultancy basis. Whilst this is not unusual from covid, no club has made such big cuts in this department as Arsenal have. And its really no coincidence that they are using Kias relationship to bring in players, which massively limits the pool of talent they can go for. Cedric, Wilian, Luiz, Coutinho all Kia's clients.

Coutinho and Wilan are also circumstantial. They aren't part of a long term plan, quite obviously and they will add to quality but it points to a circumstantial relationship with one agent, not a well thought out plan from Edu. Not yet anyway.

My source is from an Athletic affiliated podcast which analysed this issue for what it's worth. The loss of key staff wasn't well received by the squad either apparently.
Giroud is almost 34 and easily Chelsea's best striker at the moment. Besides, Chelsea actually wanted to give Willian a new contract, albeit a 2-year one.
Giroud's style of play allows age to be less of a factor where as its quite notorious that wingers have a problem with age unless they adapt their game. Wilan is a good squad option but 2 years really was really a fair limit to offer the bloke!
 
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Mastadon

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I’m delighted with this one. We need someone to come in and make an immediate impact because we have enough promising youngsters who might never make it and Willian has just had a very productive season and is fully settled in the PL/London.

At 5m a year he will cost us 20m over 4 years which is nothing for what he could potentially offer. I think it was a no brainer of a deal and the fact that Lampard wanted to keep him is telling as well. Unlike Utd who could afford to keep throwing money at their problems until they got somewhere, we have a limited budget and signings like this are a necessary part of our rebuild while we save the transfer cash for other signings.
 

patty123

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Unlike Utd who could afford to keep throwing money at their problems until they got somewhere, we have a limited budget
2019/20 Tierney 25 million, Luiz 8 mill, Martinelli 6, pepe 72 million, Ceballos 16, Saliba 27. Season 18/19 leno 19.5 million, Papastathopoulos 17.6, Guendouzi 8, Torreira 27.6 million. Season 17/18 Lacazette 52.7 million, Aubameyang 56 mill.

You're problem is not spending, it's getting in the wrong players. You have 3 front players who cost 180.7 million and you cant match a kid (Mason) playing his first season, a player in Rashie injured and out of form at the start and another in AM, for that money and experince you shouldn't be scoring 10 less than us, you should be scoring twice that more than us.
 

Mastadon

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2019/20 Tierney 25 million, Luiz 8 mill, Martinelli 6, pepe 72 million, Ceballos 16, Saliba 27. Season 18/19 leno 19.5 million, Papastathopoulos 17.6, Guendouzi 8, Torreira 27.6 million. Season 17/18 Lacazette 52.7 million, Aubameyang 56 mill.

You're problem is not spending, it's getting in the wrong players. You have 3 front players who cost 180.7 million and you cant match a kid (Mason) playing his first season, a player in Rashie injured and out of form at the start and another in AM, for that money and experince you shouldn't be scoring 10 less than us, you should be scoring twice that more than us.
Except we have a squad which costs slightly more than 50% of yours.

https://www.transferleague.co.uk/homepage/uncategorised/squad-cost-comparisons

Your squad costs 600m and ours costs 350m. Even with the second most expensive squad in the league you struggled to finish 3rd and finished 6th last season. Take out 250m worth of players from your squad and you prob struggle to finish top half.

It’s easy to comment when you can afford to make bad signings and shrug them off to continue making more signings until you get them right. Sure we’ve made some bad signings and wasted money there is no denying that the difference is you can keep doing it until you get it right while we can’t. In that sense you’re hardly in any position to criticize us. Go compare your transfers to Liverpool and see how badly you turn out.
 

Robbie Boy

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Poor signing by Arsenal.
 

Rojofiam

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His biggest motivation is to stay in London for as long as possible.

Instead of performing week in week out so that he can keep renewing every year with his club, he just decides to go the easy route.

I'd say he's probably going to improve Arsenal, at least in his first season, but I can't see him being too arsed about things when things go wrong (and they will). His attitude will fit Arsenal perfectly :lol:
 

VP89

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His biggest motivation is to stay in London for as long as possible.

Instead of performing week in week out so that he can keep renewing every year with his club, he just decides to go the easy route.

I'd say he's probably going to improve Arsenal, at least in his first season, but I can't see him being too arsed about things when things go wrong (and they will). His attitude will fit Arsenal perfectly :lol:
This post is a new level of laziness. Because a player prefers to live in London rather than shift abroad at the end of his career, he must have a poor attitude? :lol: That's a bit of a jump
 

Rojofiam

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This post is a new level of laziness. Because a player prefers to live in London rather than shift abroad at the end of his career, he must have a poor attitude? :lol: That's a bit of a jump
Chelsea was willing to give him a 2 year extension. Arsenal is willing to give him 3 years. Why would he go to a rival club that's also in turmoil and has much lower ambitions? All this for an additional year, instead of performing for 2 more years at Chelsea and probably earning himself a 3rd year at the club in the process?

EDIT: This is why I liked the idea that we used to give 30+ players no more than 1 year extensions. If I'm not wrong, we gave Matic a longer extension not long ago, right?
 

VP89

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Chelsea was willing to give him a 2 year extension. Arsenal is willing to give him 3 years. Why would he go to a rival club that's also in turmoil and has much lower ambitions? All this for an additional year, instead of performing for 2 more years at Chelsea and probably earning himself a 3rd year at the club in the process?
Because it's likely his final contract for a major league, and he wants to compete for a big club in London in the Premier League for as long as possible?

It's normal for any professional footballer to get the best contract available, this doesn't point to laziness or a bad attitude. If he wasn't fecked he'd take any big money offer, so it's not all about the money. He clearly 1) prefers London, 2) wants to compete and 3) wants his final contract to be a good one. 99% of top footballers approach the final stages of their career in similar fashions.
 

duffer

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Chelsea was willing to give him a 2 year extension. Arsenal is willing to give him 3 years. Why would he go to a rival club that's also in turmoil and has much lower ambitions? All this for an additional year, instead of performing for 2 more years at Chelsea and probably earning himself a 3rd year at the club in the process?

EDIT: This is why I liked the idea that we used to give 30+ players no more than 1 year extensions. If I'm not wrong, we gave Matic a longer extension not long ago, right?
He know's he's be playing a lot more at Arsenal than he would at Chelsea. It's not a money decision.
 
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He know's he's be playing a lot more at Arsenal than he would at Chelsea. It's not a money decision.
Continues to cement himself as a Tottenham legend!

A mixture of both monetary factors and playing time I would suggest. Clearly the 3 year contract is important to him, as well as being part of the first team squad.
 

Castia

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Except we have a squad which costs slightly more than 50% of yours.

https://www.transferleague.co.uk/homepage/uncategorised/squad-cost-comparisons

Your squad costs 600m and ours costs 350m. Even with the second most expensive squad in the league you struggled to finish 3rd and finished 6th last season. Take out 250m worth of players from your squad and you prob struggle to finish top half.

It’s easy to comment when you can afford to make bad signings and shrug them off to continue making more signings until you get them right. Sure we’ve made some bad signings and wasted money there is no denying that the difference is you can keep doing it until you get it right while we can’t. In that sense you’re hardly in any position to criticize us. Go compare your transfers to Liverpool and see how badly you turn out.
Liverpool in the past 2-3 seasons sure. Before then and even in the first few years under Kloop they were piss poor hence winning feck all.
 

Orc

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He know's he's be playing a lot more at Arsenal than he would at Chelsea. It's not a money decision.
I'm actually curious if this will be the case or not. Arsenal are pretty well stocked in the attacking areas. Wonder how pleased the Arsenal fans will be seeing Willian playing instead of their youngsters like Martinelli and Saka who they rave about constantly.
 

roonster09

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Except we have a squad which costs slightly more than 50% of yours.

https://www.transferleague.co.uk/homepage/uncategorised/squad-cost-comparisons

Your squad costs 600m and ours costs 350m. Even with the second most expensive squad in the league you struggled to finish 3rd and finished 6th last season. Take out 250m worth of players from your squad and you prob struggle to finish top half.

It’s easy to comment when you can afford to make bad signings and shrug them off to continue making more signings until you get them right. Sure we’ve made some bad signings and wasted money there is no denying that the difference is you can keep doing it until you get it right while we can’t. In that sense you’re hardly in any position to criticize us. Go compare your transfers to Liverpool and see how badly you turn out.
Going by reported numbers, it's far from "Squad which costs slightly more than 50% of ManUtd squad"

There might be difference of few millions btw.

ArsenalManUtd
Bernd Leno
22.5​
De Gea
18.9​
Kieran Tierney
25​
Lindelof
35​
Sokratis Papastathopoulos
17.6​
Bailly
30​
Alexandre Lacazette
55​
Jones
16​
Mesut Özil
42.5​
Maguire
80​
Lucas Torreira
26​
Pogba
89​
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
56​
Mata
37​
Rob Holding
2​
Martial
44​
Nicolas Pépé
72​
Rojo
16​
Shkodran Mustafi
35​
Fred
47​
Calum Chambers
16​
Bruno
60​
Pablo Marí
7​
Dalot
20​
David Luiz
8​
Daniel James
15​
Matteo Guendouzi
7​
Shaw
27​
Granit Xhaka
40​
AWB
45​
Gabriel Martinelli
5​
Matic
40​
Total
437​
Total
619.9​
 

Che Guevara

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They've let go of their head of international scouting and various heads of regional scouting. These include the chap who was around for 24 years and vital to bringing in great gems. Then citing covid, they let go of 2 more key scouts in Brian Mcdermott, and Clarke (who I think was head of UK Scouting).

Then they let go of more regional scouts, hour by hour, who were employed in a consultancy basis. Whilst this is not unusual from covid, no club has made such big cuts in this department as Arsenal have. And its really no coincidence that they are using Kias relationship to bring in players, which massively limits the pool of talent they can go for. Cedric, Wilian, Luiz, Coutinho all Kia's clients.

Coutinho and Wilan are also circumstantial. They aren't part of a long term plan, quite obviously and they will add to quality but it points to a circumstantial relationship with one agent, not a well thought out plan from Edu. Not yet anyway.

My source is from an Athletic affiliated podcast which analysed this issue for what it's worth. The loss of key staff wasn't well received by the squad either apparently.

Giroud's style of play allows age to be less of a factor where as its quite notorious that wingers have a problem with age unless they adapt their game. Wilan is a good squad option but 2 years really was really a fair limit to offer the bloke!
I agree they took advantage of Covid to get rid of staff. But I can't see why you seem to think this will necessarily weaken them. And just because somebody has been at the club for 24 years doesn't mean they are irreplaceable or their replacement will do worse. As I said, my take is Edu is taking over a lot of Cagigao's responsibilities. I agree the signing of Coutinho and Willian (if they happen) are short-term, obviously they want to get back to CL football asap, and I think the two will definitely improve them. Also they still have a very good pool of young players. Like with any major decision in football, nobody knows if their restructuring and new recruitment strategy will work, it's certainly too early to draw any firm conclusions either way.
 
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RyRoc

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I think Arsenal would have looked at it in terms of , how much would a player similar to the ability of Willian cost in terms of transfer fee and wages and probably taken a reasonable calculation that it was worth giving him the extra year to secure the deal. Purely as a squad rotational player I think Willian contributes to any of the top 6. Interested to see how Arteta uses him given the massive resources put in to get Pepe who usually plays the same position. I actually think Pepe might come good next season albeit that’s a separate discussion.
 

CannonBalls

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Far too many people are just focusing on the part that a 35 yr old player should not earn so much.
Look at it the other way,
How much would it cost to loan a player of Willians calibre who is almost in his prime (keep the players age aside as we are talking about just loaning him for 1 yr).
Wages: 130k/week (what willian was earning at Chelsea) = 6.5m
Loan fee: 6m ( considering we are paying close to 4 for Ceballos and Barca are rumoured to be asking 9m for Coutinho)

So thats 12.5m for 1 yr
Compared to that 15m (+bonuses which i think will take it to 20m) is still a decent deal.

As an arsenal fan i would say its a good deal as it does not block off other young players like nelson. And also atleast for next year we get a pretty solid player.
 

The Purley King

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Apparently being paid £220k per week. Can see why Chelsea wouldn't match that. I don't think its a bad signing by Arsenal even at that price (presume he's also getting a signing on bonus and loyalty payments throughout the contract).
He'll definitely improve them.
 

MalBot

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Apparently being paid £220k per week. Can see why Chelsea wouldn't match that. I don't think its a bad signing by Arsenal even at that price (presume he's also getting a signing on bonus and loyalty payments throughout the contract).
He'll definitely improve them.
Most reports are actually saying he is taking a pay cut. £100k a week now compared to 150/120k a week at Chelsea. However with the 3 year deal offered by us rather than the 2 years on offer at Chelsea he will be making more money that way.
 

VP89

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Apparently being paid £220k per week. Can see why Chelsea wouldn't match that. I don't think its a bad signing by Arsenal even at that price (presume he's also getting a signing on bonus and loyalty payments throughout the contract).
He'll definitely improve them.
Well they won't need him when they have Werner and Ziyech (plus Hudson Odoi, Pulisic, Mount). I really don't see how Wilian can squeeze into a front 3 often enough for that squad to justify £220k a week for 3 years.
 

duffer

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Most reports are actually saying he is taking a pay cut. £100k a week now compared to 150/120k a week at Chelsea. However with the 3 year deal offered by us rather than the 2 years on offer at Chelsea he will be making more money that way.
"Most reports"? Can you remember who said that? Would be interested to see.
 

Che Guevara

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"Most reports"? Can you remember who said that? Would be interested to see.
The £100,000pw does not include bonuses and other add-ons. If he earns those then he is playing well. The main difference with the Chelsea offer was the extra 1 year.
 

duffer

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The £100,000pw does not include bonuses and other add-ons. If he earns those then he is playing well. The main difference with the Chelsea offer was the extra 1 year.
Any source for that? Not doubting you, would be interested to see.
 

MalBot

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"Most reports"? Can you remember who said that? Would be interested to see.
After the season ended and we were being heavily linked with him, I remember clicking on those reports and finding almost all of those had those figures.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/soc...arsenal-on-three-year100k-a-week-deal-sources

https://onefootball.com/en/news/her...ut-willian-is-taking-to-join-arsenal-30651822

Since he was pretty much confirmed to be signing for us by reliable journalist I didn't need to be reading that kind of news anymore, so naturally didn't bother anymore. Hadn't realised the story had changed and now there are also a lot of reports suggesting he is on much more money.