Woodward - Big-Money Transfer Talk Ignores Financial Reality

[esmufc07]

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[devilish]

We will spend 60m net as per usual. I guess that's the max the Glazers can afford these days. I very much doubt we'll see another EPL title with these guys around.

 

[Greck]

Shouldn't need a formal briefing to know less revenue equals less spending

 

[rotherham_red]

Think it's a bluff, personally.

 

[Greck]

Think it's a bluff, personally.

Honestly don't think so. We are making less money, that much is a fact, we will also be earning less playing behind closed doors for the foreseeable future, that much is also a fact. Meanwhile we are paying everyone their normal wages. We also have to plan to stay afloat for possible future stoppages. There's no way spending remains the same for us or anyone.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I guess it would also effect outgoings. No one would be able to afford Pogba.

 

[devilish]

If we conduct our business properly then we should reach the top 4 target. Unfortunately that's the club we are now. I wouldn't keep Pogba unless he's happy to stay here. I would gladly swap him for Jovic, Odegaard and Achraf who would add quality to our RB, CM and Forward line respectively and would hopefully have the hunger to succeed at United. Then we can add another RW. Hopefully someone like Ferran Torres whose heading at the end of his contract and who shouldn't cost us a fortune.

 

[rotherham_red]

Honestly don't think so. We are making less money, that much is a fact, we will also be earning less playing behind closed doors for the foreseeable future, that much is also a fact. Meanwhile we are paying everyone their normal wages. We also have to plan to stay afloat for possible future stoppages. There's no way spending remains the same for us or anyone.

True, we will likely be earning less, but that discounts two factors:

a) our commercial activities have insulated us against the current financial crisis which has dogged everyone else; &
b) we actually have a lot of cash reserves in the bank, which most clubs don't have to the same degree.

And that's before we factor in the fees we're due for Lukaku and a few others we've let go over the past few years. We also haven't spent anywhere near our cap since 2017 (when we bought Lukaku: 80m, Matic: 40m, and Lindelof: 30m; and then Sanchez in the January of that season). Even taking in to account Bruno signing in January, there's still at least two further big name signings we can afford, even if the market wasn't depressed as it likely will be.

If there is any degree of truth to what Woodward said, I'd think it was more in line to the rumours surrounding Kane coming, rather than Sancho or Grealish. Plus, what Woodward said directly contradicts Ole's remarks, as well as the various murmurings from club sources to the journalists who actually have a line at the club such as Whitwell, Mitten, Ornstein, etc. Namely, that Utd feel that they are in a good enough position to get the players that they need to get, and that they have been using this time off to scout further and exploit the opportunities that could be presented.

I really do think we have enough wherewithal to conduct the transfers that we have earmarked for the last couple of seasons. Someone like Sancho, for example, I can't imagine us being put off because of the current climate. Not when he's been on our wish list for as long as he has been and both himself and Dortmund are seemingly more than open to a move.

 

[yo@Kirk]

Since it's more likely Woodward will pay the 15m for CF Ighalo instead of the 90m for RW Sancho, maybe it's time to let Greenwood make RW his own. Rashford, Martial, and Greenwood up front with Bruno, Pogba and Fred in midfield would provide a formidable attack, imho.

 

[Darlington Padgett]

We will spend 60m net as per usual. I guess that's the max the Glazers can afford these days. I very much doubt we'll see another EPL title with these guys around.

We spent more than that in one defender.

 

[Greck]

True, we will likely be earning less, but that discounts two factors:

a) our commercial activities have insulated us against the current financial crisis which has dogged everyone else; &
b) we actually have a lot of cash reserves in the bank, which most clubs don't have to the same degree.

And that's before we factor in the fees we're due for Lukaku and a few others we've let go over the past few years. We also haven't spent anywhere near our cap since 2017 (when we bought Lukaku: 80m, Matic: 40m, and Lindelof: 30m; and then Sanchez in the January of that season). Even taking in to account Bruno signing in January, there's still at least two further big name signings we can afford, even if the market wasn't depressed as it likely will be.

If there is any degree of truth to what Woodward said, I'd think it was more in line to the rumours surrounding Kane coming, rather than Sancho or Grealish. Plus, what Woodward said directly contradicts Ole's remarks, as well as the various murmurings from club sources to the journalists who actually have a line at the club such as Whitwell, Mitten, Ornstein, etc. Namely, that Utd feel that they are in a good enough position to get the players that they need to get, and that they have been using this time off to scout further and exploit the opportunities that could be presented.

I really do think we have enough wherewithal to conduct the transfers that we have earmarked for the last couple of seasons. Someone like Sancho, for example, I can't imagine us being put off because of the current climate. Not when he's been on our wish list for as long as he has been and both himself and Dortmund are seemingly more than open to a move.

The bolded seems nice but any plan can seem nice when you list the pros and omit the cons/drawbacks like us having a massive wage bill and any possible transfer fees we might still be paying. I also don't know about having a warchest of cash reserves, how did you get that info? We aren't going bankrupt anytime soon, we are also more advantaged than other teams but we are definitely not spending more while earning less. It may be pretty unwise to blow 200m while not knowing when financial normalcy returns. Imo any money we have now will be a safety net to keep our bank balance and massive wage bill in the green. We aren't going to take a chunk of it to go shopping just yet

Forget what you think Ole might have said, it's probably made up tabloid talk without quotes. There's no contradiction because Ole doesn't write the cheques. This is the CEO speaking directly on the issue. No BS , just straight talk and he normally doesn't do that. He's usually reassuring the shareholders. This is more credible than hearsay paper talk

 

[AaronRedDevil]

We will spend 60m net as per usual. I guess that's the max the Glazers can afford these days. I very much doubt we'll see another EPL title with these guys around.

You do know United spent 80 on lukaku, 50 on wan bissaka and a huge amount on maguire

 

[devilish]

We spent more than that in one defender.

Net spend

 

[Garry Buck]

I can honestly see us signing 2 players max this summer. I think Bellingham could be 1 but really would not be shocked if he goes to Dortmund. Grealish I can only see coming if Pogba leaves. Sancho now looks unlikely unless Dortmund can do a cheaper deal with us. I think we will end up with that defender from Swansea and possibly Bellingham. That’s it.

 

[rotherham_red]

The bolded seems nice but any plan can seem nice when you list the pros and omit the cons/drawbacks like us having a massive wage bill and any possible transfer fees we might still be paying. I also don't know about having a warchest of cash reserves, how did you get that info? We aren't going bankrupt anytime soon, we are also more advantaged than other teams but we are definitely not spending more while earning less. You also realise it's pretty unwise to blow a 100m on a player while not knowing when financial normalcy returns. Any money we have now will be a safety net to keep our bank balance in the green. We aren't going to take a chunk of it to go shopping.

Forget what you think Ole might have said, it's probably made up tabloid talk anyway. This is the CEO speaking directly on the issue. That takes precedence over hearsay paper talk

Re the wage bill, every member of the squad took a 20% wage cut for failing to reach the CL last season, and we weren't paying the highest earner (Sanchez)'s wage in full in any case. We have barely bought anyone in the last 3 years, and a lot of those we bought before then have been moved on in any case.

Re the cash reserves, the vid below is a good summary of Utd's strengths vis-a-vis everyone else:


Duncan Castles also mentioned it in his podcast as well.

I'm not necessarily saying that we will be spending £100m on a player, but we'll be in a position to get our targets, and Sancho is head and shoulders at the top of that list. If it comes to be the case that he'll cost £100m, then I don't foresee the cost being too prohibitive. Unlike the vast majority of other clubs, matchday income comprises a relatively small portion of our total gross income. We also have been using this time to leverage our name to our current sponsors.

Ole would not have said what he said without there being a semblance of truth to it, and the fact that it seemed to corroborate what the press were saying is more than enough. Woodward has also said in the past, that we can do things in the market that other clubs can only dream of, only to have egg on his face numerous times in the future. I just see what he said recently as a sign of him learning his lesson.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

We will spend 60m net as per usual. I guess that's the max the Glazers can afford these days. I very much doubt we'll see another EPL title with these guys around.

This is where you need to read what Nicky Butt said:

"If you look at the cost for an average player now, why would you not create your own? That's where the [youth player] recruitment drive came from. As soon as Ole came in, it went to a whole new level, because he gets it".

 

[UnofficialDevil]

You do know United spent 80 on lukaku, 50 on wan bissaka and a huge amount on maguire

60m net spend.

 

[Sandikan]

We spent more than that in one defender.

NET spent was the key part.

 

[Sandikan]

Re the wage bill, every member of the squad took a 20% wage cut for failing to reach the CL last season, and we weren't paying the highest earner (Sanchez)'s wage in full in any case. We have barely bought anyone in the last 3 years, and a lot of those we bought before then have been moved on in any case.

Re the cash reserves, the vid below is a good summary of Utd's strengths vis-a-vis everyone else:

He started talking about rebates on season tickets.
Surely he'd know you only pay for home league games up front, so it'd only be those, and for some, the home game of the Europa game to refund?

 

[Adisa]

True, we will likely be earning less, but that discounts two factors:

a) our commercial activities have insulated us against the current financial crisis which has dogged everyone else; &
b) we actually have a lot of cash reserves in the bank, which most clubs don't have to the same degree.

And that's before we factor in the fees we're due for Lukaku and a few others we've let go over the past few years. We also haven't spent anywhere near our cap since 2017 (when we bought Lukaku: 80m, Matic: 40m, and Lindelof: 30m; and then Sanchez in the January of that season). Even taking in to account Bruno signing in January, there's still at least two further big name signings we can afford, even if the market wasn't depressed as it likely will be.

If there is any degree of truth to what Woodward said, I'd think it was more in line to the rumours surrounding Kane coming, rather than Sancho or Grealish. Plus, what Woodward said directly contradicts Ole's remarks, as well as the various murmurings from club sources to the journalists who actually have a line at the club such as Whitwell, Mitten, Ornstein, etc. Namely, that Utd feel that they are in a good enough position to get the players that they need to get, and that they have been using this time off to scout further and exploit the opportunities that could be presented.

I really do think we have enough wherewithal to conduct the transfers that we have earmarked for the last couple of seasons. Someone like Sancho, for example, I can't imagine us being put off because of the current climate. Not when he's been on our wish list for as long as he has been and both himself and Dortmund are seemingly more than open to a move.

Our broadcasting and matchday income is still 58% of our revenues. To what degree we are insulated, is up for debate. We are less dependent than other clubs on those two income streams but that still represents two-thirds of our revenue. That's a massive chunk.
Our quarter reports says we still have £100m in cash and other equivalents(50% drop from the same period the year before) but our net receivables (receivables-payables)are still -£120m. Although, we need to look at the term on those payments.
Yes we may be in a relatively healthy position compared to other clubs but healthy enough to go and blow £100m on a single player? I don't think so but hope I am wrong.
Like I have said throughout, I don't think we can do a deal unless the payments are massively staggered and I am not sure if Dortmund are under enough pressure to accept something like that.
With so much uncertainty, I simply can't see any finance man allowing the sort spend people are talking about.
I don't think Ed is bluffing.

 

[Darlington Padgett]

NET spent was the key part.

Our net spent this year was over 150m....

 

[Darlington Padgett]

Net spend

Our net spent this year was over 150m....

 

[Tom Cato]

We will spend 60m net as per usual. I guess that's the max the Glazers can afford these days. I very much doubt we'll see another EPL title with these guys around.

That net spend is not a "real" thing, its just something that appears in Transfermarkt and gives a overview of players in/out and their transfer fee. Clubs do not do accounting that way.

 

[devilish]

Our net spent this year was over 150m....

https://www.90min.com/posts/6550125...-will-impact-man-utd-s-summer-transfer-budget

 

[devilish]

That net spend is not a "real" thing, its just something that appears in Transfermarkt and gives a overview of players in/out and their transfer fee. Clubs do not do accounting that way.

Businesses tend to try to balance the books. United are not an exception

 

[Brophs]

Far be it from me to try to get into Edward Woodward’s headward but when I read the comments they read more to me like he was speaking to our supporters to dampen expectations rather than speaking to clubs like Dortmund to try to force the price down. I think he was being relatively genuine.

 

[noodlehair]

Given his track record, financial forecasting or advice from Ed Woodward is about as meaningful as Weinstein telling you how to behave respectfully to women.

 

[Sandikan]

Our net spent this year was over 150m....

We brought forward a signing we were going to make in the summer.

Tell me the summer net spend, taking into account Lukaku's fee and wages, and the amount of Sanchez wage we shipped off.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Given his track record, financial forecasting or advice from Ed Woodward is about as meaningful as Weinstein telling you how to behave respectfully to women.

He’s extremely successful in finance is he not? I don’t quite get this criticism.

 

[Tom Cato]

Businesses tend to try to balance the books. United are not an exception

Yeah? But that has nothing to do with a "net spend" of £60m. That figure, again, does not exist in accounting. It's used in cash accounting to determine in and out over a short period of time for small businesses, it's a tool to, as you say, help them balance teh books and get a overview of their spending power.

Manchester Uniteds finances are, or at least were, in tip top shape before the lockout. .

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I'm just glad we for Fernandes before all this crap kicked off, and still have Pogba who must nipping a bit and so might sign a new deal, we

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I'm just glad we signed Fernandes before all this crap kicked off, and Pogba must be nipping a bit right now so might sign a new deal, add in Henderson, Smalling , & Sanchez to come back for depth if needed, plus Greenwood and Williams who are bound to improve next season, then much as a Sancho would be nice, we aren't actually in a bad position if we sign no one.

 

[devilish]

This is where you need to read what Nicky Butt said:

"If you look at the cost for an average player now, why would you not create your own? That's where the [youth player] recruitment drive came from. As soon as Ole came in, it went to a whole new level, because he gets it".

Oh I get that and in fact the transfers I mentioned are young players with the potential to be WC. Sir Alex used to use this strategy as well with the likes of Butt, Phil Nev, Oshea and co providing bodies to the team while money was spent on the first team when needed. Unfortunately the league is becoming more competitive with Dubai and now Saudi coming into scene + Sir Alex was always given the resources to buy top players like Rooney and Rio if he wanted to. Can you see us do the same with a 60-70m net per year unless of course we sell players first?

Hence why, considering the limitations imposed on us by the Glazers, I feel we should shift to an Arsenal way of doing things ie buy young players and develop them into stars. If they end up feeling that the club is not ambitious enough then they move elsewhere for big money which in return will give us more money to buy new young players etc. Jovic, Torres, Achraf and Odegaard all fit that perfectly alongside the likes we already have like Mejbri, Greenwood, Rashford, AWB and Henderson. Our owners can't even afford paying their debt. In fact we're only paying the interest. These are business men not supporters. All they understand is profit. You can't expect to make as much profit as possible while concurrently be competitive against the likes of Dubai and Saudi. Hence we need to aim for the achievable, something that strike the perfect balance between making as much money as humanely possible without spending ridiculous money in achieving that ie top 4.

 

[devilish]

Yeah? But that has nothing to do with a "net spend" of £60m. That figure, again, does not exist in accounting. It's used in cash accounting to determine in and out over a short period of time for small businesses, it's a tool to, as you say, help them balance teh books and get a overview of their spending power.

Manchester Uniteds finances are, or at least were, in tip top shape before the lockout. .

Well we're not even paying the debt, just interest. Have we even repaired OT's roof btw?

That's unimportant though. Our owners are business men not football fans. Their aim is to make as much profit as possible. Competing against Dubai and Saudi for the EPL title simply doesn't make sense financial sense. Top 4 on the other hand is the perfect balance between profit and sustainability.

Thus our transfer budget will be limited as it had been in the past 2 years. Ole himself stated that the Bruno Fernandes deal has impacted our budget for next year. Which means we better get used to become the new Wenger's Arsenal at least up until the Glazers leave.

 

[noodlehair]

He’s extremely successful in finance is he not? I don’t quite get this criticism.

We keep being told he is succesful in finance by people who have no idea if he is or not or what that even means.

When it comes to transfers and transfer value he has an extremely documented public history with us of having absolutely no idea what he is doing.

You are saying you don't get the criticism of someone who paid £4m OVER Fellaini's buyout clause, in order to sign him 2 months too late. This same man who anyone is supposed to pay attention to when he starts talking about the value of transfers...

 

[P-Nut]

We keep being told he is succesful in finance by people who have no idea if he is or not or what that even means.

When it comes to transfers and transfer value he has an extremely documented public history with us of having absolutely no idea what he is doing.

You are saying you don't get the criticism of someone who paid £4m OVER Fellaini's buyout clause, in order to sign him 2 months too late. This same man who anyone is supposed to pay attention to when he starts talking about the value of transfers...

Quite a while ago now that, and also his first ever transfer window.

He's improved since then and in the last window got a player for cheaper than the selling club originally wanted to sell him for.

I'm not Woodwards biggest fan, but using a 6 year old transfer rather than one that happened 4 months ago screams of bias.

 

[sun_tzu]

I guess it would also effect outgoings. No one would be able to afford Pogba.

and I certainly dont see anybody wanting to pay even half sanchez wages to take him on loan... so pretty sure he will end up back at old trafford next year

 

[UncleBob]

We keep being told he is succesful in finance by people who have no idea if he is or not or what that even means.

When it comes to transfers and transfer value he has an extremely documented public history with us of having absolutely no idea what he is doing.

You are saying you don't get the criticism of someone who paid £4m OVER Fellaini's buyout clause, in order to sign him 2 months too late. This same man who anyone is supposed to pay attention to when he starts talking about the value of transfers...

Donald, is that you ?

We waited until the very end because Moyes didn't like the idea of Fellaini being his first signing at the club. As soon as that went tits up, because Moyes was thick enough to insist on Bale ("We hoped we could have talked him out of Real Madrid." ) and Fabregas, we had to conclude the signing of Fellaini. The £4mill difference is feck all, about 65% of Bebe.

 

[tenpoless]

He's not wrong though.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

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Backlash due to them "bragging" about taking advantage of other clubs financial problems some weeks ago.
Since they yet again stated that "we are rich, we can pay" the selling clubs will demand more... Now they are trying to appear less willing to overpay for a target.