Woodward, Glazers....

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
5,633
Are we not also paying the Glazers directors fees/salaries as well?
I wouldn't be surprised if the whole family is drawing a massive wage from the club too.
 

Keefy18

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
1,766
No its not. Clubs like Roma, Napoli, Newcastle and Lazio are local based ie they are built around a region or even a city. Their club's price reflect that. Fans tend to be fewer but they are far more loyal, the sponsors they attract tend to factor that as well etc. United on the other hand is a world renowned brand. It requires far more investment to sustain and it rely more on success then that of Roma or Napoli. However the benefits and the profits are far bigger.


This team require urgent investment and it also requires football people who know what they are doing. Instead the Glazers are reluctant in putting their hands in their pockets and seem paralysed in replacing the bankers who created this mess with experienced football people to take football related decision making
Mate, why in the blue hell are you mentioning Roma, Napoli, Lazio and Newcastle in the same breath as Manchester United? It's absolute mental to do so!

They do not have anywhere near the level of supporter base United do, its in completely different galaxies. We have a huge supporter base globally, especially in America and even more so across Asia! There are estimates of roughly 500-600m supporters of the club globally and you put us in the same bracket as Newcastle? :lol: :lol:

Again, the board have spent over 1b now since 2010 on transfers, I believe only Chelsea and Real have spent more than us, City are a maybe... It wouldn't really be much of a difference. We sit easily in the top 5 spending clubs anyway so where are you getting this notion we haven't spent enough?

We have a good football set up with Ole and his coaches I firmly believe that.
 

Keefy18

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
1,766
Are we not also paying the Glazers directors fees/salaries as well?
I guess so
I wouldn't be surprised if the whole family is drawing a massive wage from the club too.
That's what dividends are?

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dividend.asp?ad=dirN&qo=investopediaSiteSearch&qsrc=0&o=40186

Of course they are going to get paid :lol:

All owners take money from the clubs they buy for god sake!

Quite the day dreaming and thinking other PL club owners are bleeding themselves dry and out of pocket.

Not sure when Swiss Ramble's tweet was from Delivish but it isn't entirely true either.... City's owners took a tidy sum of 389m within the last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...cent-share-us-private-equity-firm-silver-lake
 

Skeezix

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
314
Bit harsh calling Romero deadwood, he has always given his best when called on
My mistake, I should not have mentioned deadwood and Romero in the same sentence. The likes of Arsenal and Chelsea moving on their surplus players makes our Board look totally inept.
 

Skeezix

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
314
This is a situation we have created ourselves - by stupidly offering new and improved contracts to certain players.
At this point, I won't be surprised if the likes of Lingard, Pereira and Jones are offered new and improved contracts this season to "preserve" their market value.
 

Escobar

Poster originally known as Michel04
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
24,257
Location
La-La-Land
Another summer gone, hardly anything done again. Our owners are really shitty
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
53,166
Mate, why in the blue hell are you mentioning Roma, Napoli, Lazio and Newcastle in the same breath as Manchester United? It's absolute mental to do so!

They do not have anywhere near the level of supporter base United do, its in completely different galaxies. We have a huge supporter base globally, especially in America and even more so across Asia! There are estimates of roughly 500-600m supporters of the club globally and you put us in the same bracket as Newcastle? :lol: :lol:

Again, the board have spent over 1b now since 2010 on transfers, I believe only Chelsea and Real have spent more than us, City are a maybe... It wouldn't really be much of a difference. We sit easily in the top 5 spending clubs anyway so where are you getting this notion we haven't spent enough?

We have a good football set up with Ole and his coaches I firmly believe that.
The same argument could be made for absolutely any club.
I also think that you're overrate our fan base. If you think our fan base will remain as big as it is after years fighting to get in the CL then you're deluded. Football is entertainment and life for most people is already miserable enough without having to follow a club who can't even beat Sevilla. Most old timers like myself will still support the club but the interest will wane substantially through time. In fact supporters clubs are already feeling the pinch. Meanwhile its going to be more difficult to persuade the new generation of supporters to support us. We're already old news.
 

Blood Mage

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
245
We're nearly at a point where we have to say enough is enough. This is almost a carbon copy of the 2018 summer transfer window where our only signings were Fred and Dalot, which of course set Mourinho up for failure after he managed a hard-fought 2nd place finish the season before, and the same could be about to happen to Solskjaer. It leads one to believe that our owners are only willing to invest when our top 4 revenue is at stake.
 

Fosu-Mens

Full Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
3,956
Location
Fred | 2019/20 Performances
That's what dividends are?

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dividend.asp?ad=dirN&qo=investopediaSiteSearch&qsrc=0&o=40186

Of course they are going to get paid :lol:

All owners take money from the clubs they buy for god sake!

Quite the day dreaming and thinking other PL club owners are bleeding themselves dry and out of pocket.

Not sure when Swiss Ramble's tweet was from Delivish but it isn't entirely true either.... City's owners took a tidy sum of 389m within the last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...cent-share-us-private-equity-firm-silver-lake
From: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/...919005426/a2239626z20-f.htm#bg18701a_main_toc

ITEM 6B: Compensation
Directors and Executive Management Compensation


The compensation for each member of our executive management is comprised of the following elements: base salary, bonus, contractual benefits and pension contributions. The total amount of compensation (including share-based payments) paid or payable and benefits in kind provided to the members of our board of directors and our executive management employees for the fiscal year 2019 was £10,729,000. We do not currently maintain any bonus or profit-sharing plan for the benefit of the members of our executive management, however, certain members of our executive management are eligible to receive annual bonuses (including share-based awards) pursuant to the terms of their service agreements. The total amount set aside or accrued by us to provide pension, retirement or similar benefits to our directors and our executive management employees with respect to the fiscal year 2019 was £20,000.
Not sure that alludes to dividends... As we paid around £22m in 2019.
 

KiD MoYeS

Good Craig got his c'nuppins
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
28,216
Location
Love is Blind
I honestly do not understand how anyone can genuinely believe the Glazers want Manchester United to challenge for titles, they do not give a single f*ck once their personal bank balance is healthy. Challenging for titles is not worth the required investment, the prize money is not lucrative enough. Champions League qualification is where the best value for money earnings are made. The club is a top four challenger now and will continue to be so under Glazers. This is fact. Either accept it or hound the Glazers out.
 

Nou_Camp99

Full Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
4,395
I honestly do not understand how anyone can genuinely believe the Glazers want Manchester United to challenge for titles, they do not give a single f*ck once their personal bank balance is healthy. Challenging for titles is not worth the required investment, the prize money is not lucrative enough. Champions League qualification is where the best value for money earnings are made. The club is a top four challenger now and will continue to be so under Glazers. This is fact. Either accept it or hound the Glazers out.
There used to be a feeling that if we were doing well then they would do well on the back of us and there's obviously truth to that. However I think as time has gone on its become plainly obvious they are reasonably pleased if we're finishing top 4 and filling OT each week. That way it brings in the maximum amounts of money possible from competitions and sponsors. And any cup we win on top is a bonus.

Let's get things straight though. The money we've spent on players since 2013 has been easily enough to mount a title challenge or 2. No PL club has spent more than us other than City. So it just proves that the men trusted to spend the money have been terrible at their jobs.

Imagine if we had got Pep or Klopp after Fergie left, David Gill stuck around as CEO and they'd have had the 700m or so we've spent. We'd be light years better than what we have right now.

The whole club is an absolute mess. It's going to take a revolution by Utd fans to get that to change. We won't compete for the major honours again under this lot. How many more years will pass with no title challenge before scenes turn ugly?
 

Deery

Full Member
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
3,210
I honestly do not understand how anyone can genuinely believe the Glazers want Manchester United to challenge for titles, they do not give a single f*ck once their personal bank balance is healthy. Challenging for titles is not worth the required investment, the prize money is not lucrative enough. Champions League qualification is where the best value for money earnings are made. The club is a top four challenger now and will continue to be so under Glazers. This is fact. Either accept it or hound the Glazers out.
There’s no point buying for the sake of it I’d rather we got good top quality players in at the right price than just spunking millions on players that will be deadwood in two years time.
 

Nitewolf

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
85
That's what dividends are?

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dividend.asp?ad=dirN&qo=investopediaSiteSearch&qsrc=0&o=40186

Of course they are going to get paid :lol:

All owners take money from the clubs they buy for god sake!

Quite the day dreaming and thinking other PL club owners are bleeding themselves dry and out of pocket.

Not sure when Swiss Ramble's tweet was from Delivish but it isn't entirely true either.... City's owners took a tidy sum of 389m within the last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...cent-share-us-private-equity-firm-silver-lake
I'm sure You know the difference between taking dividends and selling stocks, don't you?

When you take dividends basically you take money from the club profits directly in your pocket, instead of paying for debt or to reinvest in the club. While selling stock share is something completely different, the club earnings and profits remains untouched to be reinvested in the club. They just sold 10% of their ownership.

And no, not every club in football world pay dividends to its owners. Actually, it's extremely rare.
 

Crustanoid

Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
Messages
16,990
Sergio Romero contract expires 2021
Diogo Dalot contract expires 2023
Phil Jones contract expires 2023, that's right 20 and fecking 23
Chris Smalling contract expires 2022
Jesse Lingard contract expires 2021
Andreas Pereira contract expires 2023
Juan Mata contract expires 2021 with year option.
This is terrifying when you look at some of the wages as well.
Will he get a testimonial for his services to the bench? He certainly deserves the small fortune he has picked up in wages. Maybe the Glazers like him because he’s similarly aesthetically challenged.
 

ArjenIsM3

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
3,586
Location
Netherlands
Sergio Romero contract expires 2021
Diogo Dalot contract expires 2023
Phil Jones contract expires 2023, that's right 20 and fecking 23
Chris Smalling contract expires 2022
Jesse Lingard contract expires 2021
Andreas Pereira contract expires 2023
Juan Mata contract expires 2021 with year option.
This is terrifying when you look at some of the wages as well.
Smalling's a decent squad option considering our CB's injury record. Having Lingard around if(when) we fail to sign Sancho is better than nothing. Let him go next year when we hopefully do manage to sign Sancho (or someone else). Mata we should let go for free next season. Provides experience and is a top bloke so a good role model for our youngsters. Romero is a good third keeper but there's a chance he'll be sold/let go. Dalot isn't on a huge contract and could still come good or be sold. Pereira and Jones are bigger issues. Can't see us offloading them to be honest. Especially Jones.
 

Nitewolf

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
85
I don't understand the notion that the Glazers are great for United. They are actually the worst.

When they bought the club, it wasn't not profitable, it was a money machine, that's exactly what they bought it. The club was debt free and spending freely on the market, breaking the British record signing almost every other season. They bought it via a huge debt that didn't fell on them as owners, but on the club, meaning they didn't invest a dime from their pocket purchasing the club. In fact, they didn't spent a dime in the 15 years of their ownership. Yet the club have payed more than 1 billion on interest and debt and dividends. If it wasn't for that debt, that money could've been spent in the stadium (which is in a terrible condition), on the academy or whatever, even after paying huge taxes we would still have a lot to reinvest in the club.

All of that debt and dividends would have been forgotten if they managed the club successfully. Some guys here say: the Glazers are big spenders, unfortunately the resources are being poorly managed. Well, who's mistake is that? Is it the media? Is it the fans? Off course it's the same management team and owners. If all you can do is work on the financial part of a football club, and you faced many failures in the sporting activities, you hire someone who can, so why are the delay in adopting the modern structure of football clubs? Why are they delaying a DOF? Who's fault is that?
 

Maticmaker

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
1,784
I know most fans want to talk about Woodward/Glazers track record in buying players etc., but there are other matters to consider

How would you expect Woodward /Glazers to handle/respond to the following;

The fallout financially from Covid, e.g. if normal attendance figures have to be decimated (i.e. 7,000 as opposed to 70,000) to even get fans into the stadium, for the whole of this season?
Where on match days the income from tickets is down, food franchise's income down, programme sales down, Mega-store sales down and of course the effects on sponsorship generally?

There has been increased criticism recently about the general state of our Stadium, at what point will the Old Trafford (Theatre of Dreams) Stadium become 'not fit for purpose' in the 21st Century and what level of investment do you think the current owners would be prepared to make to renew?

"Expectation at Manchester United is....! " this is a phrase often used by fans, ex-players and managers at the club to indicate what minimum levels we require, but what is the Clubs owners expectations in footballing terms, do we ever get to hear this? Apparently the last time Ed Woodward got on his feet to address American investors (last year) all he talked about was the sales of shirts for Alex Sanchez and in the first three months it had broken all records. Do such speeches tell us anything...we don't already know?
 

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

Lutefisk is it!
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
80,892
Location
Eric Bailly's Red Army
Supports
Moanchester United
Will he get a testimonial for his services to the bench? He certainly deserves the small fortune he has picked up in wages. Maybe the Glazers like him because he’s similarly aesthetically challenged.
I believe Jones has said he doesn't feel he deserves a testimonial and also notes the vitriol he's received from fans over the years has influenced his desire not to have one.
 

Nitewolf

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
85
He was awful for the Nets apparently mainly due to spending lots of money on garbage. Still...all aboard!? :lol:


He didn't know about basketball. It's still just a rumor, but check his record as a CSKA Moscow owner.
 

sammsky1

Pochettino's #1 fan
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
29,914
Location
London
He was awful for the Nets apparently mainly due to spending lots of money on garbage. Still...all aboard!? :lol:

Can he buy the club in timee to fund Sancho Thiago and Upamecano? If so I’m on board
 

Jim Beam

The Joker
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
8,971
Location
All over the place
Sergio Romero contract expires 2021
Diogo Dalot contract expires 2023
Phil Jones contract expires 2023, that's right 20 and fecking 23
Chris Smalling contract expires 2022
Jesse Lingard contract expires 2021
Andreas Pereira contract expires 2023
Juan Mata contract expires 2021 with year option.
This is terrifying when you look at some of the wages as well.
Man Utd are delighted to announce...
 

DomesticTadpole

Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
74,744
Location
Barrow In Furness
Or because those are the only contracts Woodward is competent enough to get done.
Very likely. Players who know they will never get that sort of pay elsewhere and can spend the rest of their career sitting on the bench. It is basically being paid to play practice games and do a bit of gym work. Nice work if you can get it.
 

Keefy18

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
1,766
I also think that you're overrate our fan base. If you think our fan base will remain as big as it is after years fighting to get in the CL then you're deluded. Football is entertainment and life for most people is already miserable enough without having to follow a club who can't even beat Sevilla. Most old timers like myself will still support the club but the interest will wane substantially through time. In fact supporters clubs are already feeling the pinch. Meanwhile its going to be more difficult to persuade the new generation of supporters to support us. We're already old news.
I made the any club comment in regards to success and investing from what I can recall, busy day so if if I'm wrong so be it.

Pretty sure we've missed CL football in quite a few seasons now and we are still making profit. In one year without CL Football we actually had record setting revenue as well if memory serves right.

What we had with Fergie was an anomaly, not the norm. What we've had since has seen us remain reasonably competitive and win trophies here n there, is it good enough? No. We'd all like and expect more but that is going to take time and there are no magical quick fixes.

Liverpool went 30 years without a league, the countries 2nd biggest club. We aren't isolated here in that there are barren spells without league titles.

We've sadly got a generation of spoiled brats who think winning the league annually is absolutely the norm when that is just abnormal to expect in the current climate of the premier league.
 

Fluctuation0161

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
3,108
Location
Manchester
our net spend is only behind city for the past 5 years and same with our wage bill, and considering they are banked rolled by a country and basically use the club as propaganda tool, that's not exactly something to be ashamed of. We have 3 of the top 5 British transfers of all time, handed out the biggest contract in premier league history to Sanchez.

The spending has been fine, its just been spent badly. People are just having a paddy because we are refusing to pay more money then any Premier league club has ever paid for a player, which considering we are in the middle of a pandemic and economic crsis likely to be worse than anything anyone ever seen and no one really no just how big the effects on football are going to be long term, is hardly criminal.

I don't agree that just going we spent a shed tone of money and made a mess of it so now we should throw more money at the problem because that hasn't worked. We have a massive squad, very few of whom look inclined to leave. We have 7 first team center backs and people are saying we should sign another. At some point, you need to say hang on we need to sort out the mess we have before start adding to it. We need to make sure what we spend going forward is spent more wisely. To be there we have spent more wisely over the last 18 months, though I still think Maguire was a mistake for that kind of fee. But we are still handing out stupid contracts, (De Gea, Matic) and I'm guessing we will do the same to Pogba.

Even if we spend more going forward will make absolutely no difference if we continue to manage the squad as badly as we have over the last decade. And that needs to be where the criticism should be, not we need to spend our way out of the mess we have spent our way into.
In reality our income is high enough to support higher spending. This has always been the case due to our large fanbase. Which was there before 2005.

Dont be gaslighted by the Glazers. They have wasted £1bn on debt which could have been invested in rectifying the transfer and strategic errors made by Woodward.

Old Trafford need an upgrade? Nah, let's just pay the Glazers more dividends and clear their personal debt leveraged on the club.
 

Fluctuation0161

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
3,108
Location
Manchester
How are the mistakes "theirs" in terms of who is signed and isn't?

Are you telling me the Glazer family scouted Bailly? Lindelof? Mikhataryan? etc etc etc

Ultimately, that is down to the football side of things on who is signed or isn't.

Woodward has openly stated that scouting was an issue and it has been addressed in terms of staff numbers and roles they play. The manager works with the scouting team and picks out suitable targets.

Basically its on Judge to negotiate deals and Woodward to sign the cheque.

How exactly then is it on Judge / Woodward who is signed?
Here is an example for you.

Woodward made LVG manager, a possession based style, spent hundreds of millions on players to suit that style. Then sacked LVG and hired Mourinho, anti possesion style. Meaning the players we had just spent millions on did not suit this new style. So we started again from scratch.

Wasting money. No succession plan because Woodward was/is clueless about football. Putting debt on the club, effectively reducing our spending power.
 

Keefy18

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
1,766
I'm sure You know the difference between taking dividends and selling stocks, don't you?

When you take dividends basically you take money from the club profits directly in your pocket, instead of paying for debt or to reinvest in the club. While selling stock share is something completely different, the club earnings and profits remains untouched to be reinvested in the club. They just sold 10% of their ownership.

And no, not every club in football world pay dividends to its owners. Actually, it's extremely rare.
I absolutely do, regardless they profited from the club. It's more so the narrative that is spun that other club owners are bottomless pits are in this out of the goodness of their hearts and don't want to make profits from their investments. Of course they do, every owner will demand a return on investment.

Aside from this tidy sum of profit they also had approx £300m sitting on their books as "deferred payments". Essentially debt on debt on the books they've not addressed.

I never said every club in the world pays dividends, simply that they take dividends.
 

Keefy18

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
1,766
Here is an example for you.

Woodward made LVG manager, a possession based style, spent hundreds of millions on players to suit that style. Then sacked LVG and hired Mourinho, anti possesion style. Meaning the players we had just spent millions on did not suit this new style. So we started again from scratch.

Wasting money. No succession plan because Woodward was/is clueless about football. Putting debt on the club, effectively reducing our spending power.
Whilst I do tend to agree somewhat with your sentiments in terms of the differences in the managers being hired here and it being counter productive, the reality is LVG was not working and again the best available man was who? Jose.

This is before we get into the fact that we had supporters waving Jose scarves and flags at OT with LVG as manager still for god sake!

You got what you sang for and then piss, moan and sulk when it doesn't work out.
 

RedDevil@84

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
11,582
This is before we get into the fact that we had supporters waving Jose scarves and flags at OT with LVG as manager still for god sake!

You got what you sang for and then piss, moan and sulk when it doesn't work out.
So now we wave green and gold scarves and that would mean Woodward and Glazers just go away, because that's what fans want now.
Isn't it ridiculous if clubs were run on whims and fancies of supporters? Doesn't it show gross incompetence?
 

ravi2

Full Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
8,857
Location
Canada
I honestly do not understand how anyone can genuinely believe the Glazers want Manchester United to challenge for titles, they do not give a single f*ck once their personal bank balance is healthy. Challenging for titles is not worth the required investment, the prize money is not lucrative enough. Champions League qualification is where the best value for money earnings are made. The club is a top four challenger now and will continue to be so under Glazers. This is fact. Either accept it or hound the Glazers out.
We are now Arsenal v 2.0.
Anyone who cant see that at this point has their head up their ass
 

Nitewolf

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
85
I absolutely do, regardless they profited from the club. It's more so the narrative that is spun that other club owners are bottomless pits are in this out of the goodness of their hearts and don't want to make profits from their investments. Of course they do, every owner will demand a return on investment.

Aside from this tidy sum of profit they also had approx £300m sitting on their books as "deferred payments". Essentially debt on debt on the books they've not addressed.

I never said every club in the world pays dividends, simply that they take dividends.
All owners take money from the clubs they buy for god sake!

Right here I would say, yes. You said every owner takes money out of their club.

That's not true at all.
 

Fluctuation0161

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
3,108
Location
Manchester
Whilst I do tend to agree somewhat with your sentiments in terms of the differences in the managers being hired here and it being counter productive, the reality is LVG was not working and again the best available man was who? Jose.

This is before we get into the fact that we had supporters waving Jose scarves and flags at OT with LVG as manager still for god sake!

You got what you sang for and then piss, moan and sulk when it doesn't work out.
A football club needs a clear long term strategy and succession plan. If the board are making decisions based on some perceived flag waving, then they are grossly incompetent.
 

MrSingh2002

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
2,665
We're nearly at a point where we have to say enough is enough. This is almost a carbon copy of the 2018 summer transfer window where our only signings were Fred and Dalot, which of course set Mourinho up for failure after he managed a hard-fought 2nd place finish the season before, and the same could be about to happen to Solskjaer. It leads one to believe that our owners are only willing to invest when our top 4 revenue is at stake.
Yeah nail on head. Their priorities just aren't winning trophies. Our team/squad/manager would have to perform out of their skin for top 4 never mind how much they'd have to overachieve to win anything.

Deluded owners are rinsing the club in the short to medium term.
 

Niks111

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
21
Get these bums out of the clubs, resulted into once again playing Lingard and Periera this upcoming season