Woodward, Glazers....

Stretender

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The problem at United is that fans are divided into factions and are not prepared to use their influence to affect change. We are the best fans the Glazers could have ever hoped for. Throw in Champagne Socialist Alex Fergusson telling the fans, the Glazers are the best owners, the polarisation of fan opinion gets even worse. The only person who will save United will be some mad billionaire who one day decides he is tired of his billions and names a price the Glazers can not refuse. For a ground which holds over 70 thousand people, it's sad that they can not be unified to drive out these parasite owners. In a strange sort of way, the best thing to happen to Manchester United is the current version of Manchester City. Because at some point United fans will get fed up of City's professional set up and trophies won, they will be left with no choice but to revolt against the Glazers.
 

Adnan

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The Glazer's are incompetent owners which is the route cause of our problems. We can blame Woodward etc all day long but when the owners are incompetent then the malaise we've found ourselves in post SAF is almost inevitable.
 

McGrathsipan

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The Glazer's are incompetent owners which is the route cause of our problems. We can blame Woodward etc all day long but when the owners are incompetent then the malaise we've found ourselves in post SAF is almost inevitable.
They are certainly not incompetent.
Far from it. Their priorities differ from yours!
 

Adnan

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They are certainly not incompetent.
Far from it. Their priorities differ from yours!
They're incompetent owners as far as running a successful football club is concerned. After wasting 100s of millions they're none the wiser and the same people are still running the show at the club, people they put into power.
 

McGrathsipan

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They're incompetent owners as far as running a successful football club is concerned. After wasting 100s of millions they're none the wiser and the same people are still running the show at the club, people they put into power.
There is no such thing as a football club anymore mate. They are business men running a business. Very well it must be said too.

From a fans viewpoint they are shite and so is Woodward but from their capitalist viewpoints it's all fecking wonderful despite the actual football being shite for years.

Its the fans that are incompetent for putting up with it and perennially refilling the Glazers coffers.
 

Adnan

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There is no such thing as a football club anymore mate. They are business men running a business. Very well it must be said too.

From a fans viewpoint they are shite and so is Woodward but from their capitalist viewpoints it's all fecking wonderful despite the actual football being shite for years.

Its the fans that are incompetent for putting up with it and perennially refilling the Glazers coffers.
Completely agree mate..
 

Adnan

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It's sad isnt it. I dont see it changing either.
It's really sad and I can't hide my dissapointment. But the only hope is that they finally see the light soon and look into why clubs who are operating on a much smaller budget than us around Europe, punch way above their weight.

And there needs to be accountability as far as the appalling decisions that have been made in recruiting players for prices that far exceed their true worth. Heads should've rolled and it shouldn't just be the manager.
 

Revan

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A price of something is worth what others are willing to pay for it. Will the Glazers be able to find a buyer for 4bn?
Honestly Devilish, you are speaking a bunch of nonsense. United is a publicly traded company, the price is decided from the market (the value of stocks that are getting sold every day in stock exchange). Glazers might do a closed sale (outside of stock exchange) but if that happens it will be over the market price, not under it.

Currently, the market has decided that United has that value. Not Glazers, but the people who are buying and selling United’s stocks.
 

sammsky1

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They're incompetent owners as far as running a successful football club is concerned. After wasting 100s of millions they're none the wiser and the same people are still running the show at the club, people they put into power.
Their metric is turnover, profit margin and net profit. Not points, titles or trophies.

we are the mugs as fans because we keep watching despite our product not being as good as we expect.

it’s like McDonald’s only having one burger in a Big Mac but everyone keeps buying :lol:
 
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lex talionis

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I don't know much about how a publicly traded company works so please forgive my naivete, but is there not some way that shareholders could compel company management to invest in new players to give us at least a chance at winning trophies?
 

Revan

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Glad they stayed away from the Reguilon deal. But for the life of me I cannot understand why they are unable to offload the deadwood.

Romero to Villa is off and Smalling to Roma still seems far fetched. Shows so much ineptitude in negotiating making deals.
Cause our players are nowhere good enough for the wages they get. No one on their righting would pay 75k/week to Jones or 100k to Rojo. At best we can hope are loans when we pay a part of the salary.

It has nothing to do with us being incompetent at negotiating players transfer. Instead, it has to do with us being incompetent at negotiating players salaries. Neither Jones or Rojo should have got the most recent contract (in case of Jones he should have sold/released/made a mascot 5 years ago).
 

Revan

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Sergio Romero contract expires 2021
Diogo Dalot contract expires 2023
Phil Jones contract expires 2023, that's right 20 and fecking 23
Chris Smalling contract expires 2022
Jesse Lingard contract expires 2021
Andreas Pereira contract expires 2023
Juan Mata contract expires 2021 with year option.
This is terrifying when you look at some of the wages as well.
Would estimate this is 30m+ for year. This is not simply incompetence, it is downright criminal. The level of mismanagement when it comes to stockpiling awful players who are not good enough even for cover is second to none.
 

glazed

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It's simple economics. The cost of winning stuff isn't worth it. It's a bad business model.
 

Tincanalley

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The problem at United is that fans are divided into factions and are not prepared to use their influence to affect change. We are the best fans the Glazers could have ever hoped for. Throw in Champagne Socialist Alex Fergusson telling the fans, the Glazers are the best owners, the polarisation of fan opinion gets even worse. The only person who will save United will be some mad billionaire who one day decides he is tired of his billions and names a price the Glazers can not refuse. For a ground which holds over 70 thousand people, it's sad that they can not be unified to drive out these parasite owners. In a strange sort of way, the best thing to happen to Manchester United is the current version of Manchester City. Because at some point United fans will get fed up of City's professional set up and trophies won, they will be left with no choice but to revolt against the Glazers.
Great and refreshing post. Nails it. More of this I say, 100% agreed .
 

Revan

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They are certainly not incompetent.
Far from it. Their priorities differ from yours!
They have been poor post SAF. For the money we have spent, we should have been competing for all trophies. That would have mean more money coming (from EPL and UCL) and more money from advertisement (now Barca and Madrid have bigger shirt deals than us). Consequently, the club’s stock would have gone higher and they would have been richer.

I honesty thought that they are better than this, but it seems clear that without SAF running the ship, they are mediocre.
 

Revan

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I don't know much about how a publicly traded company works so please forgive my naivete, but is there not some way that shareholders could compel company management to invest in new players to give us at least a chance at winning trophies?
Yes, but the problem is that the Glazers control over 80% of the stocks, and 99% of the voting rights (each stock they have comes with 10 votes compared with stocks other people have who come with 1 vote). So they are the only shareholders who actually can make decisions.
 

glazed

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Because at some point United fans will get fed up of City's professional set up and trophies won, they will be left with no choice but to revolt against the Glazers.
They/We won't. They/We will just complain a lot and put up with it because at the end of the day there's nothing else to be done. The chances of getting fans to boycott Old Trafford are just zero. Maybe if Covid lasts another three years...
 

Revan

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It's simple economics. The cost of winning stuff isn't worth it. It's a bad business model.
It is not though. They have spent more money than any club in Europe (since SAF retired) except Barca and City. More than PSG, more than Madrid, more than Juve, more than Liverpool, more than Chelsea, more than Bayern.

And we have won feck all. The money spent has been enough to win the main titles. The problem is that the money has been wrongly spent and there has been a clear misdirection of the club. Which is why I want them out, I don’t care how much money they spent, I care about the end results. If they are able to find cheap players who turn out to be world beaters, I wouldn’t give a shit if they get 50m in dividends each year. But as things are showing, they are very poor at making decisions, so for the best of everyone, I hope they sell the club. They get their golden goose (more than 3.5 billion dollars), and the club hopefully gets someone more competent to run the things.
 

Tel074

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The problem at United is that fans are divided into factions and are not prepared to use their influence to affect change. We are the best fans the Glazers could have ever hoped for. Throw in Champagne Socialist Alex Fergusson telling the fans, the Glazers are the best owners, the polarisation of fan opinion gets even worse. The only person who will save United will be some mad billionaire who one day decides he is tired of his billions and names a price the Glazers can not refuse. For a ground which holds over 70 thousand people, it's sad that they can not be unified to drive out these parasite owners. In a strange sort of way, the best thing to happen to Manchester United is the current version of Manchester City. Because at some point United fans will get fed up of City's professional set up and trophies won, they will be left with no choice but to revolt against the Glazers.

Completely right .. I'm Irish and I'm lucky in life that I can afford to travel with my son to every home game and some away games the problem with getting fans together to protest is that thousands of fans travel from far and wide to each home game and for some it might be the one game each season and to ask someone like that to boycott a game or walk out is a hard thing to expect them to do .
But I agree us match going fans have to get together and start doing something because this crowd have absolutely no interest in us winning the big trophies they are happy with the CL cash cow every season .
The one stupid mistake they have made this time is when it goes tits up with Oles team us match going fans won't turn on Ole we will to a man/woman turn on the owners and Ed.
 

Sweet Square

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The problem at United is that fans are divided into factions and are not prepared to use their influence to affect change. We are the best fans the Glazers could have ever hoped for. Throw in Champagne Socialist Alex Fergusson telling the fans, the Glazers are the best owners, the polarisation of fan opinion gets even worse. The only person who will save United will be some mad billionaire who one day decides he is tired of his billions and names a price the Glazers can not refuse. For a ground which holds over 70 thousand people, it's sad that they can not be unified to drive out these parasite owners. In a strange sort of way, the best thing to happen to Manchester United is the current version of Manchester City. Because at some point United fans will get fed up of City's professional set up and trophies won, they will be left with no choice but to revolt against the Glazers.
When you've got fans who think the only other option for United is some billionaire dictator/member of a monarchy it's no wonder Fergie thinks the Glazers are the best owners for now.

Honestly I don't get why fans like yourself just don't go and support city or PSG. What are you getting out of supporting United that you couldn't get from the other clubs ?
 

glazed

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It is not though. They have spent more money than any club in Europe (since SAF retired) except Barca and City. More than PSG, more than Madrid, more than Juve, more than Liverpool, more than Chelsea, more than Bayern.

And we have won feck all. The money spent has been enough to win the main titles. The problem is that the money has been wrongly spent
Well let's just take the English clubs there as examples. City have spent the most. To win the title you would have to spend more than City. Let's assume they're in an off-year. You have to be (1) very lucky and (2) very well organised to take advantage.

That means that irrespective of how much you spend, you have to spend it as though football is your priority, not business. It's no co-oincidence that we've wasted so much money. The guy we have calling the shots knows nothing about football, only about making money. But if he wasn't calling the shots, the money wouldn't be made. That's why it is spent wrongly - not just some weird random happenstance.
 

Stretender

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When you've got fans who think the only other option for United is some billionaire dictator/member of a monarchy it's no wonder Fergie thinks the Glazers are the best owners for now.

Honestly I don't get why fans like yourself just don't go and support city or PSG. What are you getting out of supporting United that you couldn't get from the other clubs ?
What a weak response, typical of the so called factions I have mentioned in my original post. Where in the post did I mention a billionaire dictator or billionaire member of monarchy? You do realise there are billionaires who are not dictators and members of a monarchy? Which Dictator owns Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and Barcelona. These are examples of clubs run for fans with the sole aim of winning major trophies for the fan base. You make it sounds like the Glazers are the best and honest billionaires in the world. These are parasites who have not invested a single penny of their money in the football club. All they have done is take money out from the club, money meant for buying players, maintaining the stadium and subsidising ticket prices. And then there you are , a so called real fan defending this kind of treachery. You are exactly the fan I was mentioning in my original post, the darling of the Glazers. I hope for the better future of the football club, when the Glazers finally get their marching orders, they take them with you. Am sure they will be happy to know that you are that dedicated to them. Most of us won't miss them.
 

Sweet Square

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Where in the post did I mention a billionaire dictator or billionaire member of monarchy?
The only person who will save United will be some mad billionaire who one day decides he is tired of his billions and names a price the Glazers can not refuse. For a ground which holds over 70 thousand people, it's sad that they can not be unified to drive out these parasite owners. In a strange sort of way, the best thing to happen to Manchester United is the current version of Manchester City.
D'oh!

Which Dictator owns Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and Barcelona. These are examples of clubs run for fans with the sole aim of winning major trophies for the fan base.
The Bayren Model
Essentially, it is a shorthand term for a clause in the regulations of the German Football League (DFL) which states that clubs will not be allowed to participate in the Bundesliga if commercial investors hold more than a 49 per cent stake. That means a club's members - the fans - must therefore retain a majority ownership stake .

The effect of the rule, as Klinsmann alluded to, is to guard clubs against the motives of private investors, who could potentially prioritise and fiercely pursue profit over the will of the supporters or the long-term health of the club.

Broadly speaking the 50+1 rule has been praised for its impact on the game in Germany, with the Bundesliga regularly dominating the average attendance charts of European football and ticket prices remaining relatively affordable for fans. As well as that, the governance of clubs by a majority of members has helped to foster a degree of financial stability, with fewer risks being taken.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/wha...rn-munich-dortmund/1tbauau8p6cm01xbm8ok60k1uc
You're suggestion(Again)
The only person who will save United will be some mad billionaire who one day decides he is tired of his billions and names a price the Glazers can not refuse.

Good luck with giving the Glazers their "marching orders".
 

Stretender

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D'oh!



The Bayren Model


You're suggestion(Again)




Good luck with giving the Glazers their "marching orders".
Am not interested in hearing your opinion Joel , am a United fan not a Glazer fan.

Not all billionaires are Dictators . That's your lesson for today. You also took the definition of mad billionaire literary.

When you hear a fan tell other fans to go and support City or PSG because they don't like the Glazers, there is no point debating because that simply is the weakest argument you can make on here.

Enjoy your night.
 
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Revan

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Well let's just take the English clubs there as examples. City have spent the most. To win the title you would have to spend more than City. Let's assume they're in an off-year. You have to be (1) very lucky and (2) very well organised to take advantage.

That means that irrespective of how much you spend, you have to spend it as though football is your priority, not business. It's no co-oincidence that we've wasted so much money. The guy we have calling the shots knows nothing about football, only about making money. But if he wasn't calling the shots, the money wouldn't be made. That's why it is spent wrongly - not just some weird random happenstance.
We don’t need to spend more than City to win the league. Since SAF retired, Chelsea won it twice, Liverpool and Leicester won it once despite spending less than City (and United).
 

glazed

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We don’t need to spend more than City to win the league. Since SAF retired, Chelsea won it twice, Liverpool and Leicester won it once despite spending less than City (and United).
But Chelsea also outspent us at the time. Hazard?

Liverpool and Leicester are exactly the well organized and luckily placed teams I was talking about who get a look in when the big dog is sleeping. That's not how we are run though.
 

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You could simply look at the source and make your own mind up, instead of making it personal?
Make it personal? Where did I do that?

We're discussing the amount the Glazers have taken out till 2019. I have sources say that's over £1bn by 2018. You said it's £500m by 2019 and your argument is I should look at the financial reports and do the maths myself. What kind of argument is that?

If you want to make me and other posters believe in your £500m figure, at least show your calculations lead to that number. Otherwise it's just pure bollocks.

Argue with what exactly? You give me a link to a wall of tweets?
 

DanClancy

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What I don't understand and find odd is the United 'fans' on here who come on defend the Glazers anytime a thread like this is created.

United have clearly spent and wasted a lot of money which they have no problem in pointing out but not one mention of the billion which has left the club during their ownership.

They bring very little to the club, they inherited their wealth from their father unlike the self made John Henry at Liverpool. They've let Woodward run the club disastrously for the last 7 years and yet he remains in the role, their poor owners and nobody could argue otherwise.
 

JPRouve

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What I don't understand and find odd is the United 'fans' on here who come on defend the Glazers anytime a thread like this is created.

United have clearly spent and wasted a lot of money which they have no problem in pointing out but not one mention of the billion which has left the club during their ownership.

They bring very little to the club, they inherited their wealth from their father unlike the self made John Henry at Liverpool. They've let Woodward run the club disastrously for the last 7 years and yet he remains in the role, their poor owners and nobody could argue otherwise.
No one in this thread has defended the Glazers though.
 

Coops73

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I Watched a program yesterday that said about Ceoemail.com so I looked it up and it gives you the emails of Joel glazer and Ed Woodward.

Not sure how genuine these are or whether they actually ever look at these but might ping them over my thoughts on their running of Manchester United and how I think they could improve things.
 

londonredmaniac

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The Glazer's are incompetent owners which is the route cause of our problems. We can blame Woodward etc all day long but when the owners are incompetent then the malaise we've found ourselves in post SAF is almost inevitable.
They aren't though.

They are taking huge dividends on a routine basis.

They aren't incompetent on the slightest. The absolute fecking leeching cnuts know exactly what they're doing. They even have some of our support defending them :lol:

They are intelligent people..

Season tickets selling out year on year, money rolling in from TV and sponsorship....what possible reason do they have to change their model?
 

romufc

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I remember last season where we blamed Ole for not bringing in another striker after selling Lukaku, blamed Ole for not bringing Herrera replacement.

We saw last year the squad is not good enough and we had Europa League. We just about got top 4.

Since then, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Wolves have all improved their squads. We have signed 1 player.

This is a total joke.
 

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We're simply not aiming to win the league anymore, of course maybe things would have been different this summer with no Corona, but the facts are we've stood practically still while those around us make moves. It's on the owners, and the board. When we've been allowed to spend, its been spent so terribly to a staggering level.
 

JPRouve

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They aren't though.

They are taking huge dividends on a routine basis.

They aren't incompetent on the slightest. The absolute fecking leeching cnuts know exactly what they're doing. They even have some of our support defending them :lol:

They are intelligent people..

Season tickets selling out year on year, money rolling in from TV and sponsorship....what possible reason do they have to change their model?
That's where I disagree and is somehow interpreted as support, they are not intelligent and they are definitely incompetent.

Why? Because United already spend the money to be in the top 5 of European football, that's where our annual budgets on football activities are, by being better the club would generate more money mainly through CL TV rights and prize money, so they are currently leaving money on the table even though the club is currently spending the money that should generate these revenues. You would have a point if we needed to spend more in order to be better or if it was going to impact their dividends but we don't and it won't. The fact that they are seemingly happy wasting money is a sign of stupidity and neglicence not intelligence, if they were intelligent the club would have reduced its expenditures a long time ago because EL clubs don't have budgets between 550m£-600m£ or tried very hard to optimize current spendings.