Would ETH have been better off entering the winter window 5th?

AlPistacho

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Bit of a rant. But I feel todays defeat was all about the board & owners and in months to come people will look at this window as the one where United’s board screwed up and let ETH & United down.

We were/are in the position where we could genuinely have made a title challenge if we signed 1-2 of the right players. But instead the board appear to be content that we seem cert for a top 4 finish so denied ETH his top window targets. At another “victory” orientated club a man in ETH position would have been told right your surpassing expectations for this season what do you need to challenge for the league in the final half. Obviously not at United.

I wonder if we were 5th or 6th with 4th in our sites would it have been better for ETH. The board fearing losing out on CL money and reduction in the clubs price would have probably signed one of ETH targets. We know 4th is all these leeches care about.

Anyways today was a credit to the manager. This time last year we lost 4-0. Hope ETH gets the players he needs, and believe me he won’t need much more to have a team that challenges for the league. His work so far is amazing. People talk about Arteta, compare him to Arteta after 6 months. Also remember Arteta took over a team that was playing a similar style for 20 years. People talk about Pep? Pep took over an already successful and he didn’t turn things around as much as ETH has in 6 months. Klopp? Klopp took over team that needed a new direction and even he took 1-2 seasons to make the progress ETH has.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Bit of a rant. But I feel todays defeat was all about the board & owners and in months to come people will look at this window as the one where United’s board screwed up and let ETH & United down.

We were/are in the position where we could genuinely have made a title challenge if we signed 1-2 of the right players. But instead the board appear to be content that we seem cert for a top 4 finish so denied ETH his top window targets. At another “victory” orientated club a man in ETH position would have been told right your surpassing expectations for this season what do you need to challenge for the league in the final half. Obviously not at United.

I wonder if we were 5th or 6th with 4th in our sites would it have been better for ETH. The board fearing losing out on CL money and reduction in the clubs price would have probably signed one of ETH targets. We know 4th is all these leeches care about.

Anyways today was a credit to the manager. This time last year we lost 4-0. Hope ETH gets the players he needs, and believe me he won’t need much more to have a team that challenges for the league. His work so far is amazing. People talk about Arteta, compare him to Arteta after 6 months. Also remember Arteta took over a team that was playing a similar style for 20 years. People talk about Pep? Pep took over an already successful and he didn’t turn things around as much as ETH has in 6 months. Klopp? Klopp took over team that needed a new direction and even he took 1-2 seasons to make the progress ETH has.
If the owners will not let us spend, what do we do. That is why we have been scrabbling about for loans.
 

bosnian_red

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Today's defeat is down to Arsenal being a very good side and us playing away to them when they had more rest, and we've generally had a great run so we were due some less luck. We beat them 3-1 at home, they beat us at their home. It's not down to anything other than that - there are 2 teams playing football, and between 2 top sides it'll usually be pretty 50/50 which it has been between United, City and Arsenal.

Anyone ever expecting to come here and dominate when they are an actual very good side is not realistic. It'll never happen. That's not how football works.
 

AlPistacho

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Today's defeat is down to Arsenal being a very good side and us playing away to them when they had more rest, and we've generally had a great run so we were due some less luck. We beat them 3-1 at home, they beat us at their home. It's not down to anything other than that - there are 2 teams playing football, and between 2 top sides it'll usually be pretty 50/50 which it has been between United, City and Arsenal.

Anyone ever expecting to come here and dominate when they are an actual very good side is not realistic. It'll never happen. That's not how football works.
Disagree. Our midfield was none existent, McTominay is crap. Waghorst clearly isn’t bad but just isn’t good enough for elite matches. If we signed Felix, and had decent cover for Casemiro 1) Arsenal don’t get into our box as much 2) we create more chances.
 

MyOnlySolskjaer

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Bit of a rant. But I feel todays defeat was all about the board & owners and in months to come people will look at this window as the one where United’s board screwed up and let ETH & United down.

We were/are in the position where we could genuinely have made a title challenge if we signed 1-2 of the right players. But instead the board appear to be content that we seem cert for a top 4 finish so denied ETH his top window targets. At another “victory” orientated club a man in ETH position would have been told right your surpassing expectations for this season what do you need to challenge for the league in the final half. Obviously not at United.

I wonder if we were 5th or 6th with 4th in our sites would it have been better for ETH. The board fearing losing out on CL money and reduction in the clubs price would have probably signed one of ETH targets. We know 4th is all these leeches care about.

Anyways today was a credit to the manager. This time last year we lost 4-0. Hope ETH gets the players he needs, and believe me he won’t need much more to have a team that challenges for the league. His work so far is amazing. People talk about Arteta, compare him to Arteta after 6 months. Also remember Arteta took over a team that was playing a similar style for 20 years. People talk about Pep? Pep took over an already successful and he didn’t turn things around as much as ETH has in 6 months. Klopp? Klopp took over team that needed a new direction and even he took 1-2 seasons to make the progress ETH has.
I don't think people remember just how bad we were last season. At this point last season, Rangnick was our manager and we were arguably the worst we've ever been - we've come leaps and bounds since then.

And to be honest mate, I don't understand your point, we've built a team worthy of challenging for Champions League football and that was always the target, we aren't where Arsenal are who are on course for 100 points. We are in an upwards trajectory and hopefully we are targeting the right positions for the summer.
 

AlPistacho

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I don't think people remember just how bad we were last season. At this point last season, Rangnick and we were arguably the worst we've ever been.

And to be honest mate, I don't understand your point, we've built a team worthy of challenging for Champions League football and that was always the target, we aren't where Arsenal are who are on course for 100 points. We are in an upwards trajectory and hopefully we are targeting the right positions for the summer.
Targets change. Under ETH we’ve gone from a team that was barely expected to make top 4, to one that if you look at could challenge for the league. The reason we most likely won’t is because we failed to sign a proper forward & CM cover this winter.
 

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Targets change. Under ETH we’ve gone from a team that was barely expected to make top 4, to one that if you look at could challenge for the league. The reason we most likely won’t is because we failed to sign a proper forward & CM cover this winter.
You're mental if you think we can sign our dream targets e.g. Osimhen, Kane during winter. Or I don't know if you're suggesting we use our summer budget right now on some temporary signings like Memphis who would be tied to a long contract.
 

Castia

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I think we did well and spent our money in the summer, we can’t argue with our summer signings.

The big mistake was not selling Martial and Ronaldo in the summer and using the money for a striker, how we can come into a season still relying on fecking Tony Martial after 7 years of shite is laughable.
 

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I doubt the board would have sanctioned any meaningful transfers whilst the club is going through a sale process
 

Jeppers7

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We were sadly never going to do much in January when the Glazers are looking to sell, or if they weren’t to be honest.
 

bosnian_red

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Disagree. Our midfield was none existent, McTominay is crap. Waghorst clearly isn’t bad but just isn’t good enough for elite matches. If we signed Felix, and had decent cover for Casemiro 1) Arsenal don’t get into our box as much 2) we create more chances.
It is impossible to ever build a team that will be perfect throughout a season. Casemiro is a player who plays every minute he is available for - you are never getting great cover for him that can go away to Arsenal who are an elite team this season, and hope to dominate them. We beat them at home, lost away. Big deal. There's no use in bitching about stuff that happened years ago really.

We lost because we will inevitably lose now and then, that's all there is. We are in a building process but even if we sign Enzo/Frenkie and Kane and Diogo Costa and Casemiro wasn't suspended, we will still have days like today. Because there are 2 teams on a football pitch. But we did spend a feck ton in the summer and it was always unrealistic to spend big in January. You don't turn into the finished article after 6 months. Takes time whether you like it or not, and you don't have to be a sugar daddy owner as the only way to do well. You just build over time and accept that not every issue can ever be sorted in 1 window or season.
 

AlPistacho

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You're mental if you think we can sign our dream targets e.g. Osimhen, Kane during winter. Or I don't know if you're suggesting we use our summer budget right now on some temporary signings like Memphis who would be tied to a long contract.
Felix was on loan, Gapko cost £35m. When you’re doing as well as we are , Liverpool and Chelsea struggling, Arsenal top of the league. You invest in the positions where you’re lacking. It’s not about “dream signings”.

Also it’s not hindsight. People have been saying we need a forward, and we need cover in midfield because McTominay is crap.
 

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No summer was fine, whoever expected a title run needs a reality check and it came today.
 

bosnian_red

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Targets change. Under ETH we’ve gone from a team that was barely expected to make top 4, to one that if you look at could challenge for the league. The reason we most likely won’t is because we failed to sign a proper forward & CM cover this winter.
No - the reason we won't is because Arsenal is on pace for 100 points and we just aren't there in the process. Do you expect the minimum for an owner is to be able to spend big every single window and always add 100m signings? Chelsea might have that now but that's not how football clubs should be run nor do I want that from us.
 

bosnian_red

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Felix was on loan, Gapko cost £35m. When you’re doing as well as we are , Liverpool and Chelsea struggling, Arsenal top of the league. You invest in the positions where you’re lacking. It’s not about “dream signings”.
Gakpo isn't good enough nor does he play in a position of need. All fit - Gakpo would be 3rd choice LW at best, with Garnacho showing a much higher potential than him too.

Felix was a half season loan for obscene money, who plays in the same position as Rashford or Bruno. Why would anybody smart do that.
 

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We are headed in the right direction despite this defeat.
We genuinely have a very good manager and backroom setup.

What you would consider our deadwood or dross last season is actually putting in decent performances this season.

Ten Hag has only been with us a few months. Arteta has had a few years at Arsenal.

Some patience is required. Take this loss but remember there is a good United side in the making here. We just took the league leaders to the last minute, at their home ground while we twatted them at Old Trafford earlier on in the season.

Today we lost but I'm happy that we gave them a real headache with a paper thin squad.
 

Crashoutcassius

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Top four is in no way a cert. The football people in the club understand this.

In other seasons this would make sense, but we are the biggest transfer spenders in world football going into this season over the last several years, and also spent record amounts this summer. Couple that with no CL and the usd gbp exchange rate going badly against us last year.

Only reason we might have been able to spend money is we cleared ronaldos wages but in the scheme of things transfer fees are so inflated that doesn't pay for a player any more.
 

AlPistacho

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No - the reason we won't is because Arsenal is on pace for 100 points and we just aren't there in the process. Do you expect the minimum for an owner is to be able to spend big every single window and always add 100m signings? Chelsea might have that now but that's not how football clubs should be run nor do I want that from us.
Felix today in the middle, makes a big difference to our attacking game. Someone other than McTominay who is genuinely one of the worse CDM I’ve seen and Arsenal don’t rampage through us at will.

This Arsenal team is good but very beatable especially for teams of equal quality.
 

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We have zero budget left hence the loan signings.

No matter if we were 1st, 5th or 9th we wouldn't be able to spend more.
 

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We’re 12 months behind Arsenal, they’ve been in a difficult position for a while but it’s clicked for them and investing in the right areas is starting to have a positive impact.

We’ll be challenging this time next year, it was always going to be a an uphill struggle this season but we’d have all taken this position at this Point in the season.

We’ve bought well and EtH has done a great job, we look like an actual team for the first time in years, just stick to the plan.
 

2 man midfield

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We spent big in the summer, including 100m on a winger who did jack shit. We lost narrowly today because we aren’t as good as they are, didn’t have as much rest and didn’t have Casemiro. We’re on the right track, and another window will see us fill out the squad to the point these factors become less of an issue.
 

Van Piorsing

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The only thing that make me laugh is when CEO sits in the pub and boasts about splashing over 100m on Frenkie, then barely finds change to loan a striker in January.

Other than that, not the worst window from the clowns in suits.
 

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Why is this place so fecking weird when it comes to managers? You do realise the goal isn't to keep a manager in his job as long as possible - but to actually succeed as a football club.
 

bosnian_red

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Felix today in the middle, makes a big difference to our attacking game. Someone other than McTominay who is genuinely one of the worse CDM I’ve seen and Arsenal don’t rampage through us at will.

This Arsenal team is good but very beatable especially for teams of equal quality.
Felix has always struggled as a 9. So no, not really. Weghorst didn't do badly at all. Arsenal didn't rampage through us either, last 30 yes they took over but generally speaking, you aren't going to find a backup DM who can come in only when the best DM in the world is missing. No DM worth having is happy with that role.

Everyone is beatable. That's why we beat them and City at home but lost away. Even sir Alex's best sides were outplayed on occasion. It happens. We were minutes away from a draw away. There's literally very little to complain about - apart from De Gea inexplicably punching it that one time and Wan Bissaka never learning back post defending.
 

bosnian_red

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The only thing that make me laugh is when CEO sits in the pub and boasts about splashing over 100m on Frenkie, then barely finds change to loan a striker in January.

Other than that, not the worst window from the clowns in suits.
I mean, probably because after that point we spent 170m on Casemiro and Antony. I don't know why people are ignoring we spent 230m last summer.
 

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The moment the club was put up for sale there was no way anymore money will be spent in Jan.
 

Van Piorsing

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I mean, probably because after that point we spent 170m on Casemiro and Antony. I don't know why people are ignoring we spent 230m last summer.
People want more and more, especially when huge spending getting slowly old and adequate end results are yet to be seen. The overall mood should be way better in the end of February/March. Perhaps trip to Wembley will bring back strong emotions from the past, but still... need to win some games first.
 

Amir

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I always question whether we have no money or the Glazers just aren’t willing to part with any more money.
Apparently we've used credit to fund our late summer signings. So no, there's no money unless of course we want to owe even more.

It doesn't matter where we are in the table. If the money isn't there, it isn't there. Being in a title race doesn't make money appear out of nowhere.
 

Vapor trail

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Aren't the club in possible violation of FFP a poster out together a very in-depth analysis of this very issue.

Glazers supposedly are also incapable of being able to pay themselves a dividend from what I remember reading. It doesn't matter if United was 15th you cannot spend what's simply unavailable. The intention of the owners to sell gives away a massive indication of the financial side of things. It's essentially billionaires being unable to cope with the demand of the clubs requirements. Winter window was always going to be woeful unless some unknown cheap signings were made. It's even worse considering it's loan proposals.
 

jem

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Apparently we've used credit to fund our late summer signings. So no, there's no money unless of course we want to owe even more.

It doesn't matter where we are in the table. If the money isn't there, it isn't there. Being in a title race doesn't make money appear out of nowhere.
So how did the Glazers draw their dividends last year?
 

UDontMessWith24

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Disagree. Our midfield was none existent, McTominay is crap. Waghorst clearly isn’t bad but just isn’t good enough for elite matches. If we signed Felix, and had decent cover for Casemiro 1) Arsenal don’t get into our box as much 2) we create more chances.
If spending was an option Weghorst wouldn’t be here in the first place. I have a very hard time envisioning any spending this month so the squad is what it is.
 

jem

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We had money last year. If by last fincancial year (i.e. "this year") they didnt take any dividends.
Yeah I'll be the first to admit that I'm pretty clueless about financial shit, but haven't we been heavily in debt since they took us over? What's different now?